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THE VALUE OF HOLDING FRAME ⚔️

THE VALUE OF HOLDING FRAME ⚔️​


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Stand your ground. Hold your Frame. (Carter, 2021).
'Frame is everything'. Always be aware of the subconscious balance of who's frame in which you are operating. Always control the Frame, but resist giving the impression that you are...'
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Tomassi, R. (2013)

***


I'd like to tell you 2 stories.

Story 1 involves 1 girl, where I didn't hold Frame.

Story 2 involves 2 girls, where I did hold Frame.

Before I get into these stories, I believe it is important to discuss the concept of Frame, as I feel there are a lot of interpretations as to what Frame actually is, and from what I have seen, the term is misused and falsely misrepresented on a regular basis.

Some of you reading this may not actually know about the concept of Frame. Some readers may have seen the terminology being bandied about deep in the bowels of Red-Pill/Game forums, or heard some half-hearted explanation from some gym-bro at the bar after half a dozen Budweisers, but aren't quite 100% sure what it actually means.

One of the most 'back to basics' books on dating, 'Red-pill truths', and game, is Rollo Tomassi's 'The Rational Male' which offers some clarity on the concept of Frame.

In the 'Iron Rules of Tomassi' section of the book, the first 'Iron Rule' stipulates:

'In psychological terms, Frame is a mutually acknowledged personal narrative under which auspices people will be influenced. One’s capacity for personal decisions, choices for well-being, emotional investments, religious beliefs and political persuasions (amongst many others) are all influenced and biased by the psychological narrative ‘framework’ under which we are most apt to accept as normalcy. (Tomassi, R. 2013, p.209).
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My copy of 'The Rational Male', well-read many times over.

It took me a while to get my head around this concept. I worked in a hardware store at the time I read the book, and the closest thing to a frame I knew of was a door frame.

What helped me understand Frame was the realisation that it is about who is in control of the narrative, which is dictated by a person's psyche, lifestyle, being, the energy they give off, and the general impression they outwardly portray to the world. When a girl enters my life and I continue to control the narrative and hold her attraction, she is in my Frame. It is the meaning and influence that we bring to situations. This is done subconsciously for it to actually work, and work effectively.

In marriages where the wife 'wears the trousers', she holds the Frame, and the husband will always be in her Frame and fall in line as a result. Hence, we often refer to men in these situations as 'beta males'.

How often do you think guys in that exact situation get blowjobs?

Frames can come from all manner of entities - not just individuals. Workplaces, cultures, religions, organisations, societies, etc.

In the workplace, it is generally accepted that the boss holds the Frame as the authority figure. This a subconscious life rule that is drilled into children from an early age through to adulthood: Accept the Frame of the parent, the teacher, and, later, the boss, as the authority figure.

In one of my previous employments, there was a highly skilled employee that had a very niche skillset that the company required to function effectively as a business. Very few people as qualified as him were available in the recruitment microcosm, and replacing him would have been any recruitment manager's worst nightmare.

In 'The 48 Laws of Power' by Robert Greene, Law 11 (Learn to keep people dependant on you) emphasises that whoever needs the other person the least in any relationship holds the power... (Greene, R., 2002, p.41).
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This aforementioned employee was able to write his own ticket on whatever he wished. Vacation time, promotions, pay raises, company benefits, working hours, etc.

This all played into his Frame. His operating Frame was 'I'm important. You're all screwed without me...' and the management were all working to within his Frame. He therefore controlled the narrative, which he was able to ultimately benefit from in multiple ways.

If an employee is not desperately needed by a company and is easily replaceable, he does not hold the Frame. If an expendable employee started to make similar demands? His ass would get fired.

Hit the road, Jack.


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My copy of Robert Greene's 48 Laws of Power, gifted to me by a dear friend. Very dark and very manipulative. Know your enemy.
***
Whilst I enjoy the mental masturbation of discussing game and the theories that underpin it, I always strive to apply these theories to real-life situations and discuss the real-world, practical experiences I have gone through where these theories are relevant and applicable.

As I mentioned at the start of this article, I put myself in a situation where I did not hold Frame. It ultimately lead to me paying the price...

I met this girl on a swinging website:

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Good body, nice legs, pretty face (you'll just have to trust me on that one) and open-minded in bed, as 'travel girls' usually are.

We bonded over travel, dating experiences and various other things we had in common.

I pitched a date, we met up, and we carried on the conversation in person. We had a few drinks (I paid), few make-outs, date went well. She said I was a 'decent guy' etc. and then we departed after a couple hours together.

A guy in the bar even complimented her by telling her she was 'gorgeous'. Little did I know and came to realise later on, this played into her Frame.

There were a couple of other Fuck-ups that I made that are important to note:

I helped her with her LinkedIn and her C.V.

I was texting back very quickly.

I paid for all of the drinks on our date.

I even offered for her to come stay with me for a night or two, as she didn't enjoy staying with her parents when she was back in the country, as she'd had a falling out with them.

I was doing everything that I could to 'appease' and serve her. I was in her Frame.

She was now in control. Her Frame that she was operating from went as follows:

'I'm a high value female because this guy is doing everything he possibly can to appease me and is coming off as desperate. I can do better.'

So the fateful night came where I'd arranged for her to come over. 1 hour before, I got the text I was semi-expecting, but naively hoped wouldn't be coming:

'I'm actually out of town for a couple of days'...

This wasn't the worst part...

I went onto the Swinging site the next day, and she'd uploaded a picture of her with some guy's cock down her throat from the night we were due to meet.

CUCKED.

A week after Story 1 occurred and I was still feeling pretty pissed off about things, I landed in Krakow for a vacation I'd booked.

I took the time to sit down and attempt to figure out where I'd Fucked up over coffee.

Waiting Spongebob GIF - Waiting Spongebob Coffee - Discover & Share GIFs.gif



Actual photo of me musing over the whole Travel Girl situation (tenor, 2024)

I took things back to basics, re-read Rollo Tomassi's section on Frame, and quickly realised that I'd Fucked up because of the transfer of Frame into the hands of Travel Girl.

Once I'd identified the issue, I could now take steps to address it.

I was in a position where I had a major advantage: I was in a different city.

Nobody knew me. I was only there for the week and still feeling raw, so I had the 'don't care' attitude towards whether I met someone and got laid or not. I'd just enjoy the City regardless.

I therefore had control over the Frame.

I took a leaf out of French Philosopher René Descartes book:

Cogito Ergo Sum - I think, therefore I am. (Descartes, R., 1637).
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For the whole week, I began to think of myself as a high-value man who travels a lot, is good with women, gets laid regularly, isn't afraid to go and get what he wants, speaks his mind, and doesn't care if he doesn't get laid. I saw the world as having abundance. This became outwardly projected as a result. 'I think, therefore I am'.

This was my narrative. This was my Frame.

I had a pre-arranged meet with a girl from Tinder who was up for meeting me at the airport.

This girl was from Kyrgyzstan and cute.

I got a Telegram message from her telling me she wasn't up for meeting due to her feeling it was just going to be sex as I was only in town a week, my response was dismissive and kept within my new Frame:

'Cool. I'm in town until Sunday if you change your mind 👍'.

She blocked me straight after, but more on this later.

I fired up Tinder, bought boosts and the Platinum upgrade, then Krakow became my new hunting ground for the week.

I got 3 lays in total over 5 days.

The first lay was easy, but the second lay was a bit more complicated, however, I held Frame.

My second date was with a left-wing stripper:

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Small tits, big ass, lots of ink. Definitely a stripper.


This girl travelled from a town 2 hours away just to meet me. She wore a nice dress, made the effort with her makeup and was very receptive.

During the date, I went to the bathroom and checked my phone...

It was Kyrgyzstani girl wanting to meet that same night.

So, I decided to operate from my new Frame...


'I got plans'.

'Oh, you meeting other girls?'

'Yes. That's what tends to happen when you stand a man up and then disappear.'

'Oh I don't want to meet you then if you seeing other girls'.

'Cool. You know where the door is'.

Chat gets deleted again.

I laughed and went back to the date with the stripper.

***
Throughout the date, I acted as if meeting and dating hot girls was just a normal part of my Frame. I acted as if having lots of sex and being sexual was just normal for me. After a while, I told her 'let's get out of here and head back to my place...'.

She agreed.

What I found interesting was throughout the date and beforehand, she'd explicitly stated she was not going to have sex with me, she wants a relationship, she's a stripper and men use her, so she's not looking for that... etc. etc.

I just brushed these off and held the Frame, which ultimately lead to her coming back to mine.

After lots of making out and teasing, she went to the bathroom to get cleaned up before we had sex.

After she came back to bed, she said she needed to have a 'serious conversation'. I said 'cool, lay it on me'.

She'd put something in my bathroom bin and seen the several used condoms from the previous night and the same morning's lay.

FUCK.

A fork in the road had appeared.

I could've folded and tried to be defensive or apologetic and simpy, but instead I decided to hold Frame.

She was already in my bed half-naked and I'd got laid the same morning. What did I have to lose? She gets up and leaves? Cool, then I can go out for a cold beer and enjoy the city.

So I owned the situation, held my frame, stayed in control and just acted as if this was the normal narrative for me.

'Yeah, I had a girl over the other night'...

Instead of blowing up and going crazy, she blew me instead.

She appreciated the honesty. She was in my Frame.

I Fucked her 3 times and then we had sex again in the morning. She did everything in bed that I wanted and the sex was awesome.

Whilst we were lying there after doing the pillow talk, she was telling me about some of her experiences as a stripper.

Some guy paid $2600 USD to just suck her toes for 2 hours in a VIP hot tub room, and here I was Fucking this girl who had travelled 2 hours on a train just to meet me after 1 meal.

After she left, I checked my phone. Turns out whilst I was balls-deep in the stripper, Kyrgyzstani girl had unblocked and messaged me on Telegram:

'Hey, you free tonight?'

'I wasn't, but I'm free tomorrow night. Come straight to my place at 7 P.M'.

'Okay'.

She showed up the next night makeup on point, skirt, sexy underwear.

I Fucked her 4 times and made an amateur porno with her.

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Holding Frame works.

That week in Krakow was an eye-opening experience for me. I learnt many valuable lessons which I took forward with me from when I came home.

Key takeaway from this article? If you are not in control of the Frame, you will have limited (if any) success in dating, sex, and many other aspects and areas of life.

Oh yeah, and don't leave your condoms in the bin for someone else to find.


***
AUTHOR: SPIDER JERUSALEM 🕷️

With thanks to @Bman and @Crisis_Overcomer


Carter, J. (2021) Guts, by Kentaro Miura. Gizmodo [online]. [Accessed: 13/09/2024]. Available at: <Berserk Gets New York Times Ad Ahead of Volume 41's US Release in 2022 (gizmodo.com)>.

Descartés, R. (1637) A Discourse on the Method of Correctly Conducting One’s Reason and Seeking Truth in the Sciences [online]. Oxford, U.K: Oxford University Press. [Accessed: 13/09/2024]. Available at: <A Discourse on the Method (Oxford World's Classics) (tue.nl)>.

Greene, R. (2002) 48 Laws of Power. 2nd edn. London, U.K: Profile Books.

Tenor (2024) spongebob squarepants is sitting at a table in a diner. tenor [online]. [Accessed: 13/09/2024]. Available at: <Spongebob Coffee GIF – Spongebob Coffee Diner – discover and share GIFs (tenor.com)>.

Tomassi, R. (2013) The Rational Male. Nevada, U.S.A: Counterflow Media LLC.
 
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Spider Jerusalem said:
What I found interesting was throughout the date and beforehand, she'd explicitly stated she was not going to have sex with me, she wants a relationship, she's a stripper and men use her, so she's not looking for that... etc. etc.
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Bruh what are they expecting from you after they tell you they're getting used by multiple other men, seriously

"Oh yes I'll wait till marriage to have sex with you and of course you'll cheat on me, no problem, I'll pay the bills" 💀

Super cool article, great reminder about frame 👍🏻
 
Really enjoyed this and your explanation. first time I've been able to get a good grasp on what frame actually means with examples.
Made me think about a lot of dates I've been on.
 
I always felt frame is mostly vision and creativity. You don't have a vision, so whenever anyone else tells you what's what, whether that's their vision, or why your vision sucks, then you immediately accept their view.

Whether its shit tests, real relationship problems, or just their general anxiety; they all have one thing in common - their opinion of current situation or their vision of the future differs from yours, and you accept some or all of their axioms unconditionally.

The peak of submissiveness is to accept other people's baseless opinions over your first hand contrary knowledge of the facts. E.g. being gaslit.

Right below that is accepting anyone else's view regarding the constraints of a situation. Imagine this toxic example: If you tell a casual girlfriend to go mow your lawn for free, most will refuse. However, if you reframe it that you're busy, but you can make it work if they either mow the lawn or wash your dishes, the acceptance rate goes way up.

Why?

1- Most people accept constraints unquestioningly. Many will not ask "Why are you busy? Why do I need to help?". They will just automatically accept that you are busy as fact, even though there is no evidence of it.

2- You gave them the illusion of choice. They get to pick between two shitty options, it gives the illusion they're in control. You don't care which they pick, either is a win for you.

We've all fallen for this type of nonsense at some point in our lives. At some point everyone skips over the fact that they don't have to accept other's conceptualization or implicit axioms. If a girl asks you a question you don't like, most people default to lying, because they accepted some axiom that they HAVE TO answer every question. Why? You're skipping over the fact they can simply choose to not answer it, say they don't want to answer it, call her on the stupidity of the question, or do any other possible thing. You're just accepting whatever anyone else tells you all the time.

Frame control is just applied creativity, vision, and confidence.

If some girl calls you an asshole. She is communicating this is a bad situation, that being an asshole is a negative trait, that you're acting rudely, the date is now going poorly, that she is displeased, and that she doesn't have to accept it. Now maybe that's true, but maybe it is not. If it isn't, and you reply with some variation of "I'm not an asshole" then you implicitly accept most of her implicit assumptions (her frame). Even when you answer No, you are at minimum accepting that she is displeased, that being an asshole is a bad thing, and probably also accepting the date is now going poorly.

You don't have to accept any of these axioms. You can challenge any of them. You can reframe it that being an asshole is a good thing. "How long have you been attracted to assholes?". This reframing doesn't accept that being an asshole is a bad thing, that the date is going poorly, or that she is displeased. Especially if its true, you believe it, and have confidence.

Let's try a realistic scenario: A girl tells you that she doesn't think you'd work because you don't have much in common. What are the implicit axioms here?

1- most obviously she doesn't think you have much in common
2- not having much in common is a bad thing
3- you have to have things in common to have a good relationship
4- she wants this to work, she is attracted to you and has been imagining your future together

If you respond to this by trying to list all the things you have in common. You have immediately lost. Not only have you lost frame, you are now chasing AND qualifying. There is almost no worse possible response than this.

The easiest method is to just assume good intentions from everyone, then look for the best of all possible solutions or interpretations. I'm going to assume the girls really wants me and wants us to work out, but is concerned because she doesn't want to get hurt or waste a lot of time on something that is doomed. I'm also going to assume she really wants a relationship with me. This is where the confidence comes in. You can't assume things like this until you actually believe in yourself.

What would a guy who believes in himself respond with that addresses all the problem? "I agree, we are very different, with very different beliefs and life experiences. I love how my weaknesses are your strengths, and my strengths are your weaknesses. I think that makes us an excellent team, and will prevent anyone from getting the best of us. We're both able to provide vary different viewpoints on the same problem, and that lets us hone in on the truth and possible solutions better than either of us could alone."

Now imagine you said that and you actually fucking believed it too. Any girl with any level of attraction for you is going to have to rethink her entire premise. You've proven you have a desirable vision of the future, that you believe in it, and that your mental state and vision won't crumble under her constant anxiety. That's someone she can follow and have faith in.

You only have to accept the constraints imposed by reality itself. Nothing else. Other people don't get to write your story.

Here is the process I use:

0. Pause, you don't have to respond to her right away or within X seconds. - Bigger problems take time. You'd be amazed how long people will allow you if they believe you heard them and are thinking on how to reply to a statement. Also, you taking your time is the ultimate form of frame control. I operate on my schedule, not yours.

1. Always assume the girl is attracted to you and wants things to work out. - Obviously, this isn't always true. However, don't waste time thinking about it. That will make itself obvious before long, and that problem will solve itself. People don't bring up objections and problems to people they don't want to be with. If they don't want to be with you, they will ghost you.

2. Figure out what implicit beliefs, axioms, and desires that are contained within their frame. - These always exist. If you think they don't, then it always means you don't understand them or the situation. You're allowed to ask clarifying questions to obvious statements in order to unravel what their hidden fears and motives are. You need to understand their position. Most people rarely fully understand their position, so don't accept their answers at face value. Its not that they are lying, they may truly not know what they want and you may have to help them figure it out.

3. Always assume there is a better solution. - This one is almost entirely faith and confidence. My only logical argument for it is that this assumption leads to better outcomes, and that not assuming it results in worse outcomes. The future belongs to optimists.

4. Find the best possible solution for both of you that contains only the positive beliefs, axioms, and desires you both share. - Be creative. The only rules that matter are reality. Not her rules, societies rules, the bar's rules, her parent's rules, etc. Your life can only get as good as YOU can imagine to be. However, reality does include her fears, emotions, and desires as long as they are real. The emotion is always real, even when the reason for it is not. This step is reliant not just on your creativity and faith, but also your ability to understand her and the situation. If you can't figure out what is driving this in the first place, then the chances your solution will work or be accepted are near zero.


5. Have some confidence. - You've solved problems before, what is one more? Why couldn't you solve this? If you can't believe in yourself, how the fuck is she going to? Just because you've never done something before is no reason to believe you can't do it, nor is there any reason you can't make a legitimate promise to do so. Some autistic types get stuck on this. If a girl wants you to promise never to cheat on her, you CAN make this promise in good faith. Obviously, no one can actually predict the future. However, that's not what she's asking. She's asking for your PROMISE not to do so. A promise is nothing more than a truthful and earnest declaration of intent. That is something hypothetically possible. If you mean it, then you can do it.
 
hush said:
Bruh what are they expecting from you after they tell you they're getting used by multiple other men, seriously

"Oh yes I'll wait till marriage to have sex with you and of course you'll cheat on me, no problem, I'll pay the bills" 💀

Super cool article, great reminder about frame 👍🏻
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@hush

I know, it really makes me laugh

Separate note, this girl I was talking to recently wanted dinner and drinks this weekend, and I found out she had a hook up with her ex the previous weekend

Basically told her to do one and that I'm not giving her the princess treatment when her ex is still getting it for free

Online dating is a disaster (sometimes)

Thanks for the feedback

Spider
 
Ali said:
Really enjoyed this and your explanation. first time I've been able to get a good grasp on what frame actually means with examples.
Made me think about a lot of dates I've been on.
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@Ali

I found that a lot of the language out there with Frame and a lot of Red Pill stuff is very technical, almost 'psychobabble' which I struggled to understand at first and I think a lot of people feel the same.

I wanted to put it in my own words and apply it to real-life examples so that everyone else can benefit from understanding and apply it.

I do 'date reviews' myself where I look at where I've potentially gone wrong if it doesn't work out - often with a cup of coffee the next morning ☕

Where I've usually Fucked up is because I've lost Frame control.

Thank you for the positive feedback - this article is going onto my website once it goes live, so I value any comments and criticism I receive

Spider
 
@Zug

Zug said:
I always felt frame is mostly vision and creativity. You don't have a vision, so whenever anyone else tells you what's what, whether that's their vision, or why your vision sucks, then you immediately accept their view.
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This reply is excellent, thank you for sharing it.

I feel it really goes deeper into Frame and technique. It complements as well as builds upon some of the aspects in my article which didn't go into as much detail, so the additional perspectives are much appreciated.

I'll probably try and have a play around with those bits and pieces you mentioned when I am dating - I imagine it could turn the tide.

Spider
 
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