How to Develop Your Archetype
The previous time I wrote about developing my Archetype it spurred a trend on the forums of others trying to develop theirs. I thought it would be helpful for you all if I wrote a short guide as I continue to develop mine in real time. 7500 words and two days to write, I sure hope it's useful to you.
This post has a lot to do with theory. I try to balance it with what actions I’m taking to develop my archetype. I don’t want you wasting time by sitting in your room just theorizing about your archetype and never battle testing in the sexual market. You’ll learn at the end of this post the importance of theory then action, getting feedback from girls, then more theory, action, feedback. In fact I was halfway through writing this post on theory, went on a date and got laid, and came back to finish it after walking her back to her car.
So promise me you will take action on what you read here.
What is an Archetype?
Before we get started, let’s define two ephemeral concepts that will be necessary for understanding the rest of the guide. First is Archetype, which is the dynamic relationship between your personalities, behavior, and looks.
Archetype = Inner world (personality, mindset, values) + Your actions in the outer world based on that inner world (speech, behaviors) + Your presentation of that inner world to the outer world (looks).
Second is “vibe”. This is the more ephemeral of the two, so forgive the rough definition of something that is hard to put into words. But roughly, it’s the relationship between your archetype and how the world reacts to that.
Vibe = Archetype x Reaction of the outer world (ie girls) to that archetype.
The reason these concepts are important is because if any one element of your archetype is “off”, meaning incongruent with the other elements, then your “vibe is off”, meaning the reaction you are receiving is incongruent with what the world is expecting.
So when someone tells you that you need to “fix your vibe”, they are signaling that your personality, behavior, or looks are incongruent. Your archetype is incongruent with what the world wants and is expecting.
For further understanding of this, I’ll point you to our wise sages:
Now let’s dive into a real example, my archetype development, so you can see how this works. As you read, you may think “Brandon, does this one element really matter that much?” By itself, not that much. However, remember that these parts add up to a whole. If you have several elements that are only slightly incongruent, the individual element does not matter, but when added together it makes a larger incongruency. One or two incongruences makes you interesting. Dozens cause cognitive dissonance in her head.
Analyzing Archetype
To analyze your archetype you’re basically looking over the previous lays and breaking down what type of girls you attracted, what attracted them, and how you can develop that to attract the type of girls you want.
In order to do this I think you need at least 20 lays to have enough data to begin working with. I wouldn’t worry too much about it until then. If you’re just getting your first few lays, use the fuckboi lite presented in Andy's Tinder Guide as your archetype and go get laid.
After 20, you can make a prediction about your archetype, try it on for a while, and then keep iterating based on the results you get. If you want to see how this process unfolds over the long term I would assign pancakemouse’s log for reading.
I’ve seen a few the elite profiles on these forums and I always felt slightly discouraged because they look like your typical chad. I’ve always felt like the anti-chad. So it was nice to have a look at what a maxxed out version of that might be for myself.
After I’ve been with 20 women, these were the looks quality of woman I currently got with my SMV threshold:
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And from my observations, this seems to be the archetypes that I’ve interacted with and where they fall:
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First off, this is why I love having a log and data to look back on. I was actually humbled by how good looking these girls were. In the moment I was so worried about my own confidence to get girls. Looking back, not to shabby. Good reminder to put things in perspective.
Based on my natural strengths in looks and the persona/style I like, I storyboarded what the maxxed out version of Bman could look like: a blend of rocker/ bohemian/ smart look, heavily tatted, solid physique, beard and long hair. I also storyboarded a few photo concepts along the way.
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This gave some things I could start to improve over the next several years:
Incongruency Alert
I was recently alerted that my vibe was off and something was incongruent with my archetype after having been on dates with 4 different girls and not closing any of them. This was abnormal for me because my close rate before the first archetype improvement to my profile, was somewhere around 50-60%, with 20% of the no closes being me saying no to them.
Quick analyzation of the last 4 dates:
The new pictures no doubt increase the quality of girl I was matching, in the type of archetypes that vibe well with mine. However, what I think happened was my profile sold a wild, dominant, sexual threat in looks. However my personality and behavior, while dominant, was more Zen and not the exciting spike of adventure and sexuality they were expecting.
Naturally I am mature, calm, composed, grounded, thoughtful, and calculated. In recent social interactions I’ve been mistaken for being in my late 30’s, being told it’s the way I carry myself.
So in my archetype I have two incongruences to work with:
Now let’s see how I update my archetype based on the feedback from the market and what I want going forward.
Overall Archetype
When I first started developing my archetype, I had mapped out some buckets that I fall into with “Rockstar”, “Bohemian/Spirtual”, and “Smart/Professional”. I took some pictures & updated some threads mostly in the Rockstar and Bohemian buckets, but had not got around to doing anything in the Professional bucket. I ran forth with what I had and would get to those later.
As a result you got this free spirited, wild looking, rockstar, rebel into BDSM, who’s super direct about sex in text. What are you going to expect when you get on the date?
Instead you get a mix of that with this guy who is also really thoughtful, conscientious, building a startup in education, doesn’t drink, so on and so forth…
It’s causing cognitive dissonance in the girl’s heads and they don’t know whether to put me in the fuck him now bucket or long term provider bucket. They are in limbo.
Now while I partially am that rebel rockstar type, I’m more like the rockstar… “professor who doesn’t play by the rules because he knows their bullshit but thoughtful enough he’s going to take action in changing them”. Good example is Jordan Peterson. Still masculine, dominant, dangerous, but in a more mature way. That Daddy Dom energy.
I need to bring in more of Smart/Professional with a modifier of Creative/Professor and Daddy Dom.
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In relationship to that, this is also the type of girls I want to attract more of in order:
Also worth noting, the age range I most vibe with has been 24-35. Younger has just been logistically too flakey for me. Mentally, I match more with women that are older than I, which makes the dates and post sex chats more interesting.
Psychology
Now let’s breakdown the archetype into its parts so we can better understand the role they are playing with the others. We’ll first start with my psychology. While over long periods of time, you can influence shifts in your psychology, it takes a lot of effort in rewiring, and largely it is set in stone.
Traits
We’ll use the OCEAN or Big 5 traits as it’s pretty reliable and easy to see how it applies to game. Plus you can take a survey of yours through Jordan Peterson’s Understand Myself for pretty cheap.
So we can see here that I need to have my looks match and show my high level of conscientiousness as it’s a dominant part of my personality.
Being that members of my family also exhibit dark triad traits, it’s worth me noting them here as well.
Mindset
I’ve dedicated a 365 project to working on this for myself. I recommend having a look at least at the first post to see specifically how I’m developing that and the way it affects my interactions with girls. You’ll notice some minor childhood trauma in there, and in my lay reports. You must address your trauma, otherwise it will bite you in the ass over and over again.
Values
I feel values are best observed in the way you act. So I will cover this more as I discuss my behaviors below as values affect the behavior decisions I make. But here’s my values in order of importance:
Looks & Fashion
Now let’s discuss the second part of your archetype: your looks. I covered this a lot in part 1, so take a look at that.
In developing my archetype further, I have some updates to do with my looks in order to better match my personality. Mainly this means bringing in a more mature, professional look in some of my photos and fashion. Here’s a list of those:
View attachment 4
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A couple explanations on my choices.
I’m planning on getting a 3 piece charcoal tweed suit. A 3 piece because I enjoy vests, and not wearing jackets, to roll up my sleeves and show my tattoos. But I can also wear the jacket with less formal clothes, like designers/ architects often do. And I can also wear the full getup. Pretty versatile. I’m choosing tweed as the texture as it is more often associated with an oxford professor than a business mogul. This aligns more with my passion for education and teaching, and my apathy towards money. Additionally it gives more Daddy Dom vibes rather than 50 Shades.
I’ll also be picking up a white/cream 2 piece and red vest. This will be worn out to events, especially BDSM ones. It stands out when everyone else is wearing black and with my long hair, beard, and tattoos, it has some subtle religious, good vs evil undertones to it. Last Shrine I had went dressed as Jesus and got a lot of admiration for it. Since AskTheDom's previous recommendations to me in my log, red has also just become my default for these things.
Ill dive more into the photo choices when discussing hobbies in the next section.
I’ll still continue to be getting a lot of tattoos because I love them and it just further intensifies the rebellious, sexual vibe.
The previous time I wrote about developing my Archetype it spurred a trend on the forums of others trying to develop theirs. I thought it would be helpful for you all if I wrote a short guide as I continue to develop mine in real time. 7500 words and two days to write, I sure hope it's useful to you.
This post has a lot to do with theory. I try to balance it with what actions I’m taking to develop my archetype. I don’t want you wasting time by sitting in your room just theorizing about your archetype and never battle testing in the sexual market. You’ll learn at the end of this post the importance of theory then action, getting feedback from girls, then more theory, action, feedback. In fact I was halfway through writing this post on theory, went on a date and got laid, and came back to finish it after walking her back to her car.
So promise me you will take action on what you read here.
What is an Archetype?
Before we get started, let’s define two ephemeral concepts that will be necessary for understanding the rest of the guide. First is Archetype, which is the dynamic relationship between your personalities, behavior, and looks.
Archetype = Inner world (personality, mindset, values) + Your actions in the outer world based on that inner world (speech, behaviors) + Your presentation of that inner world to the outer world (looks).
Second is “vibe”. This is the more ephemeral of the two, so forgive the rough definition of something that is hard to put into words. But roughly, it’s the relationship between your archetype and how the world reacts to that.
Vibe = Archetype x Reaction of the outer world (ie girls) to that archetype.
The reason these concepts are important is because if any one element of your archetype is “off”, meaning incongruent with the other elements, then your “vibe is off”, meaning the reaction you are receiving is incongruent with what the world is expecting.
So when someone tells you that you need to “fix your vibe”, they are signaling that your personality, behavior, or looks are incongruent. Your archetype is incongruent with what the world wants and is expecting.
For further understanding of this, I’ll point you to our wise sages:
- kyil_andy & Ed_ did a podcast showing how Ed changed his archetype and had better success.
- AskTheDom and Crisis_Overcomer did a podcast discussing archetypes and what happens when they are incongruent.
- MILFandCookies did a video explaining the importance of being congruent in your photos, showcasing what you would look like and be doing if you were caught on your best day.
Now let’s dive into a real example, my archetype development, so you can see how this works. As you read, you may think “Brandon, does this one element really matter that much?” By itself, not that much. However, remember that these parts add up to a whole. If you have several elements that are only slightly incongruent, the individual element does not matter, but when added together it makes a larger incongruency. One or two incongruences makes you interesting. Dozens cause cognitive dissonance in her head.
Analyzing Archetype
To analyze your archetype you’re basically looking over the previous lays and breaking down what type of girls you attracted, what attracted them, and how you can develop that to attract the type of girls you want.
In order to do this I think you need at least 20 lays to have enough data to begin working with. I wouldn’t worry too much about it until then. If you’re just getting your first few lays, use the fuckboi lite presented in Andy's Tinder Guide as your archetype and go get laid.
After 20, you can make a prediction about your archetype, try it on for a while, and then keep iterating based on the results you get. If you want to see how this process unfolds over the long term I would assign pancakemouse’s log for reading.
I’ve seen a few the elite profiles on these forums and I always felt slightly discouraged because they look like your typical chad. I’ve always felt like the anti-chad. So it was nice to have a look at what a maxxed out version of that might be for myself.
After I’ve been with 20 women, these were the looks quality of woman I currently got with my SMV threshold:
View attachment 6
And from my observations, this seems to be the archetypes that I’ve interacted with and where they fall:
View attachment 7
First off, this is why I love having a log and data to look back on. I was actually humbled by how good looking these girls were. In the moment I was so worried about my own confidence to get girls. Looking back, not to shabby. Good reminder to put things in perspective.
Based on my natural strengths in looks and the persona/style I like, I storyboarded what the maxxed out version of Bman could look like: a blend of rocker/ bohemian/ smart look, heavily tatted, solid physique, beard and long hair. I also storyboarded a few photo concepts along the way.
View attachment 1
View attachment 2
View attachment 3
This gave some things I could start to improve over the next several years:
- Tattoos: Over the next decade I can drop $20,000+ on tattoos. Now let’s be clear, this will improve my SMV, but really it’s for me. I really love art and design. I love it even more I get to carry it around with me on my body to look at whenever I want. They also serve as mementos of transformation points in my life. I’ve also always wanted to be a walking contradiction in professional circles where people judge my appearance and then shocked by my competence. So I’ll be happy to do this. I’m already somewhere between $1000-$2000 in. I’ll start with sleeves, move to chest, stomach, back, and then legs. Hands I’ll probably do. Neck I’m still iffy on. Most likely won’t ever touch the face.
- Beard: As long as I take care of it with proper routine and nutrition, it will just keep filling itself out. I could be thicker, but it’s a hell of a lot better than my early 20’s.
- Hair: I’m going to start learning to braid my natural hair and exploring hair extensions and clip in braids for more Viking styles. I enjoy the long hair and its fun having the girls comment how healthy and thick it is compared to theirs. I tell them to stop putting so much shit in it.
- Physique: I’ve been building this over the last decade and recently really sculpting out areas. My chest is rounding out more, my delts and shoulders are larger, and my ab muscles are larger now that I can have a slightly higher BF and still have them visible. However when above 10%, fat stores on my love handles which takes away that V shape. So that will be a delicate balance.
- Clothes: I have pretty much the basic versions of most of the items in the storyboards. So it will just be a matter of swapping out and finding better versions over time.
Incongruency Alert
I was recently alerted that my vibe was off and something was incongruent with my archetype after having been on dates with 4 different girls and not closing any of them. This was abnormal for me because my close rate before the first archetype improvement to my profile, was somewhere around 50-60%, with 20% of the no closes being me saying no to them.
Quick analyzation of the last 4 dates:
- Girl 1: Hot professional. I would have closed this, as she was into me and wanted to go back home with me, but I fucked up the logistics before the date. However on the date she said I was “softer” than she expected, which she clarified as meaning more calm. This was good for her because she was nervous and needed more comfort.
- Girl 2: Hot professional. When I went for the pull, she said something along the lines of really vibing but having a block of wanting to go back with me and needed to finish a project anyways. This girl was hot and confident, so she needed to me to spike her arousal levels by being more sexual as she was expecting I would, but instead got an even keeled experience.
- Girl 3: Spiritual/ Instagram type girl. Pretty much same thing as the previous girl, stating we were vibing well, but wanted to get to know me better and have a second date.
- Girl 4: Spiritual type girl. Super platonic.
The new pictures no doubt increase the quality of girl I was matching, in the type of archetypes that vibe well with mine. However, what I think happened was my profile sold a wild, dominant, sexual threat in looks. However my personality and behavior, while dominant, was more Zen and not the exciting spike of adventure and sexuality they were expecting.
Naturally I am mature, calm, composed, grounded, thoughtful, and calculated. In recent social interactions I’ve been mistaken for being in my late 30’s, being told it’s the way I carry myself.
So in my archetype I have two incongruences to work with:
- Looks – showcasing more the mature, Zen dominant side of my personality so that when I go on dates the girls are not expecting a wild child that is pulling them right into the bathroom there to fuck them, but is still here for sex.
- Behavior – being more sexual on the date, touching them, letting my eye contact that I’m great at holding express more of that “I want to fuck you” energy, and overall being more in touch with my desire in that moment.
Now let’s see how I update my archetype based on the feedback from the market and what I want going forward.
Overall Archetype
When I first started developing my archetype, I had mapped out some buckets that I fall into with “Rockstar”, “Bohemian/Spirtual”, and “Smart/Professional”. I took some pictures & updated some threads mostly in the Rockstar and Bohemian buckets, but had not got around to doing anything in the Professional bucket. I ran forth with what I had and would get to those later.
As a result you got this free spirited, wild looking, rockstar, rebel into BDSM, who’s super direct about sex in text. What are you going to expect when you get on the date?
Instead you get a mix of that with this guy who is also really thoughtful, conscientious, building a startup in education, doesn’t drink, so on and so forth…
It’s causing cognitive dissonance in the girl’s heads and they don’t know whether to put me in the fuck him now bucket or long term provider bucket. They are in limbo.
Now while I partially am that rebel rockstar type, I’m more like the rockstar… “professor who doesn’t play by the rules because he knows their bullshit but thoughtful enough he’s going to take action in changing them”. Good example is Jordan Peterson. Still masculine, dominant, dangerous, but in a more mature way. That Daddy Dom energy.
I need to bring in more of Smart/Professional with a modifier of Creative/Professor and Daddy Dom.
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In relationship to that, this is also the type of girls I want to attract more of in order:
- Good girl/Hot professional combo: When they have that “good girl” archetype, I vibe really well with them because they usually need more comfort to lower their arousal levels from being nervous, rather than spiking. But when they have that “Hot professional” combo they are lady in the streets, slutty, kinky, nympho in the sheets. These are hands down my favorite. My ex wife was this. My favorite lays were these. I have never had ED with these girls, ever.
- Alt girls: I do pretty well with these girls as we vibe over being different than society, but I may not always be as wild or extreme about it as them. Visually they are so hot to me and I like the overt displays of sexuality as opposed to the lady in the streets.
- Spiritual girls: They are fun, we vibe well about self-development, meditation, travel, tantra, those sorts of things. But they can also drive me up a wall sometimes with their free spirited nature, going with the flow, or talks about astrology and the like. I need to be careful with these ones though because I occasionally get ones like The Feminist or Psychedelic Girl which can be toxic.
- Instagram Blonde: Basically those damn skinny, big titted, blonde girls sitting over there in my No Girl column. I rarely ever match with one and it’s a tragedy. I love blondes, but I also know I’m probably not going to vibe well with one of those archetypes. So I’m probably better off scooping up a combo one with one of the above categories. On the upside, I get a lot of red heads which I also enjoy. But genetically they are an anomaly, so I really think there is some underlying biology match of our genes or something. But I digress.
Also worth noting, the age range I most vibe with has been 24-35. Younger has just been logistically too flakey for me. Mentally, I match more with women that are older than I, which makes the dates and post sex chats more interesting.
Psychology
Now let’s breakdown the archetype into its parts so we can better understand the role they are playing with the others. We’ll first start with my psychology. While over long periods of time, you can influence shifts in your psychology, it takes a lot of effort in rewiring, and largely it is set in stone.
Traits
We’ll use the OCEAN or Big 5 traits as it’s pretty reliable and easy to see how it applies to game. Plus you can take a survey of yours through Jordan Peterson’s Understand Myself for pretty cheap.
- Openness: Moderately High – this is what makes me open to new ideas, wanting to experiment, and with girls, helps give the rockstar rebel vibes
- Conscientiousness: High – this, however, makes me very aware and deep thinking of what that rebellion will do, how it affects other people, responsible, hardworking, and with girls, gives empathy and comfort
- Extraversion: Moderately Low – this bites me in the ass all the time as I have to cognitively put effort into speaking to others, leading a group, being in big social situations.
- Agreeableness: Moderately Low – this helps with challenging girls, taking direction, and again, being rebellious
- Neuroticism: Moderately Low – this help me have that steady, grounded, calm demeanor that can be comforting, but bites me in the ass if I need to spike emotion in girls
So we can see here that I need to have my looks match and show my high level of conscientiousness as it’s a dominant part of my personality.
Being that members of my family also exhibit dark triad traits, it’s worth me noting them here as well.
- Narcissism: Moderately Low – I handle criticism well, have a lot of empathy, and don’t feel entitled to anything. However I do like being admired and respected but mostly when it has merit.
- Psychopathy: Low - While I may be a rebel to the status quo of society, I have far too much empathy.
- Machiavellianism: Moderate – This is the one I keep the closest tabs on. You’ll see shortly that one of my highest values is honesty, and for good reason. I am hyper aware of the weight of my words and actions in their ability to influence other’s emotions and actions for my gain or theirs. I am always monitoring my intentions, trying to aim them at the good. I’m aware of the degrees of honesty and how much they impact outcomes. If this post is not evidence, I’m very good at high level strategy, and this requires knowing the psychology of the players in the game. I believe this is necessary to be a good leader. No doubt it helps me a lot with girls. But I always error on the side of more honesty than not, with good intentions, as to never become a tyrant.
Mindset
I’ve dedicated a 365 project to working on this for myself. I recommend having a look at least at the first post to see specifically how I’m developing that and the way it affects my interactions with girls. You’ll notice some minor childhood trauma in there, and in my lay reports. You must address your trauma, otherwise it will bite you in the ass over and over again.
Values
I feel values are best observed in the way you act. So I will cover this more as I discuss my behaviors below as values affect the behavior decisions I make. But here’s my values in order of importance:
- Purpose – this means I’m never giving up my mission or ambition for a woman. She will always ride shotgun to this. Part of the decision to get my divorce in fact.
- Honesty & Integrity – by no surprise this is why I run Andy’s screening/direct game
- Health – this shows up in not drinking, not sacrificing too much sleep, which effects date choices
- Mastery – this is a huge driver for me wanting to learn and continue developing in game
- Autonomy – I cherish my freedom and individuality. Probably should have never got married. But this makes casual, non-monogamous relationships work well for me.
- Love & Relationships – Ah here they are. They are important to me. Other people are important to me. But not before those other values.
- Spirituality – Obviously this helps me connect with spiritual type girls on some level.
- Security – This is largely in relation to money, having routines, and some sort of anchor while I declare anarchy and revolution to other areas of my life. It sometimes rubs against things I’ll do with girls. Also it makes me contemplate still having an anchor partner, like Andy does, or lean towards having MTLRs.
Looks & Fashion
Now let’s discuss the second part of your archetype: your looks. I covered this a lot in part 1, so take a look at that.
In developing my archetype further, I have some updates to do with my looks in order to better match my personality. Mainly this means bringing in a more mature, professional look in some of my photos and fashion. Here’s a list of those:
View attachment 4
View attachment 5
A couple explanations on my choices.
I’m planning on getting a 3 piece charcoal tweed suit. A 3 piece because I enjoy vests, and not wearing jackets, to roll up my sleeves and show my tattoos. But I can also wear the jacket with less formal clothes, like designers/ architects often do. And I can also wear the full getup. Pretty versatile. I’m choosing tweed as the texture as it is more often associated with an oxford professor than a business mogul. This aligns more with my passion for education and teaching, and my apathy towards money. Additionally it gives more Daddy Dom vibes rather than 50 Shades.
I’ll also be picking up a white/cream 2 piece and red vest. This will be worn out to events, especially BDSM ones. It stands out when everyone else is wearing black and with my long hair, beard, and tattoos, it has some subtle religious, good vs evil undertones to it. Last Shrine I had went dressed as Jesus and got a lot of admiration for it. Since AskTheDom's previous recommendations to me in my log, red has also just become my default for these things.
Ill dive more into the photo choices when discussing hobbies in the next section.
I’ll still continue to be getting a lot of tattoos because I love them and it just further intensifies the rebellious, sexual vibe.