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Dates
- Thread starter IAndrewX
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2021
- Goal
- Master daygame
- Age
- 34
There's a lot more advanced stuff I do, but this is the basic framework I recommend for beginners:
Setting the Date
Determine archetype and her level of formality.
Younger and more casual → grab a boba/coffee/slice of pizza and go to a park bench
Older and more formal → go to a nice bar or lively café (must have background music to allow for a private atmosphere)
The venue should be as close to your place as possible. If the girl tries to snatch the frame and make you meet near her, or meet in the middle, move on to the next one, as you're dealing with a timewaster.
Do not do event dates or sit-down restaurant dates under any circumstance.
Pre-Date
Day of, send her a short, non-needy anti-flake text, like “looking forward to tonight ;-)” or “is it drinks time yet?”
60 to 30 minutes before, text her to let her know your ETA when she’s on her way. Arrive a few minutes before she does to scope the venue to account for any incontingencies.
Greeting and Intro
As she’s arriving, you should be standing and maintaining eye contact with her. Don’t let her shake hands, make it very clear you’re going to hug her. As you hug, gauge her physical compliance level. Does she let it rest, or quickly pull away? This sets the tone for what you’re going to need to do on the date. If she lets it rest and seems compliant, you can even move your hands down her sides and have them rest on her hips. Then you can stand there for a bit talking to her maintaining that contact. Only 1 out of 10 girls will be OK with this level of physicality right away.
Pull away and order a drink for each of you. Pay the tab on the spot so you don’t need to close out at the end.
Ideally, sit next to her, but if you can't, don't force it. Once you gain more compliance, you can ask her to come sit closer to you.
Subcommunication
You should maintain laser eye contact with squinting slayer eyes, looking away sometimes if she's a value girl.
Your tonality should be slow, with a low, masculine voice. Don't project loudly or overly react to things she's saying. Talk cool, calm, collected, masculine. No uptalk.
You should be leaning back and staying loose. Leaning in is a sign of supplication. Make it look natural, not posed. Make it look like you own the venue.
When silences happen, that's your opportunity to really crank up the subcomms. Move closer. Intensify eye contact. Also a great opportunity to do the "Stop staring at my lips!" bantery stuff.
Get to Know Each Other
Slowly start getting to know her. Good topics include FORD questions: family, occupation, recreation, and dreams. Avoid religion and politics. When she answers a question, don’t just jump right into another question. Respond with your own experience, challenge her on your response, or go deeper: “Why did you…”, “How did you…” You can tease sparingly during this part, but don’t overtease.
Physically, you should be holding strong eye contact this entire time. Do as much kino as possible.
Pull Pre-Seed
Around now, you should pre-seed whatever your pull excuse is. If it's your rooftop, talk about how you got your apartment, and how it's pretty cool, and how you have a rooftop. Don't mention anything about her going to the rooftop yet. The point is just to warm her up to the idea and have her imagine herself there. Don't oversell it.
Ramp it Up
At this point, steer the conversation more towards sexual topics. Good drop-in questions for this are: "So how are the guys in <your city> treating you?" or "Have you been in a relationship recently?" but there are many more ideas, just be creative.
From here, read what type of relationship she traditionally has been in. Whatever she answers, tacitly agree, but bring the frame more towards your goal. If she's a casual girl, you're down for casual. If she's a serious girl, you're down for serious, but make sure to mention you're really big on physical chemistry and (if you're there yet) how relationships without great sex don't work out. You can soften this last part by telling it as a past story rather than directly stating it.
If she's compliant to sex talk, move into this part. Talk about preferences, figure out if she's submissive, etc. As always, you can soften this by share some of your past stories and experiences so you don't have to be so direct about it. Talking about a "friend" doing it can abstract it even further, for girls who are less comfortable.
During this portion. You really have to sense whether she's comfortable and back off if she thinks you're being creepy. If you she starts getting a bit reluctant to answer: "It's OK, we're just two open and honest adults having a conversation, there's no judgement here."
Pull Seed
During or after this portion, seed the actual pull. Mention whatever your pull excuse is, and future project you and her being there, but add a disqualifier, something like "I don't know if I know you enough yet" or "I don't know if you're ready yet". You want her to be qualifying that she is ready to pull. If she doesn't bite, you know you have more comfort to build. If she bites, just say something vague like "We'll see".
Back to Comfort Building
You don't want to keep talking about sex, so ramp it back to deeper, non-sexual topics for as long as you need to build comfort.
On a high note, pitch the pull you seeded earlier. You can act like she's totally won you over and deserves to come.
If she's hesitant, add a disqualifier to steal her objections from her, like "We can only stay for 20 minutes" or "You have to promise not to keep me up late because I have a bedtime". If she still throws up objections, try and handle them as best as possible. Keep persisting until you get a no.
If she's compliant, don't waste any time. Say "Let's go" and get the hell out of there before she can change her mind.
If it takes time to get back to your place, fill it with absolutely ridiculous banter to keep her forebrain off the fact that sex might be happening.
As soon as you're through the door, you've pulled, and the rest, my friend, is home game.
Other Considerations
Social Proof
If you're in a bar or lounge, treat the staff with respect. Learn their names, ideally beforehand. It's nice to have a regular place on lock where everyone knows you and you get excellent service.
Multiple Venues?
Another thing guys are obsessed with is doing two or three venues on a date. This is an old school method, overcomplicated, and not needed. Your framework should be getting from the initial meet to the sex location, without anything in between.
The only time a second venue might be needed is if you feel like a change of scenery and she isn't quite ready to pull yet. In this case, a park or a walk around the neighborhood is just as good as any bar.
To Kiss or Not To Kiss
Beginners are obsessed with the idea of "making out" on dates, but it's actually suboptimal in every way. For one, many girls won't be comfortable with public displays of affection. Two, there's the chance you could get rejected early, and three, kissing destroys tension.
Better than making out is teasing the makeout by building tension, but not actually giving her the pleasure of kissing you. Kissing relieves tension, when your actual goal should be building tension towards the pull. There are many other, more subtle ways of building tension other than kissing.
If you're an ultra-beginner and you struggle with getting sexual, you can try kissing on some dates just to break you out of your shell, but long term it's better to wait until you're in a private location.
Setting the Date
Determine archetype and her level of formality.
Younger and more casual → grab a boba/coffee/slice of pizza and go to a park bench
Older and more formal → go to a nice bar or lively café (must have background music to allow for a private atmosphere)
The venue should be as close to your place as possible. If the girl tries to snatch the frame and make you meet near her, or meet in the middle, move on to the next one, as you're dealing with a timewaster.
Do not do event dates or sit-down restaurant dates under any circumstance.
Pre-Date
Day of, send her a short, non-needy anti-flake text, like “looking forward to tonight ;-)” or “is it drinks time yet?”
60 to 30 minutes before, text her to let her know your ETA when she’s on her way. Arrive a few minutes before she does to scope the venue to account for any incontingencies.
Greeting and Intro
As she’s arriving, you should be standing and maintaining eye contact with her. Don’t let her shake hands, make it very clear you’re going to hug her. As you hug, gauge her physical compliance level. Does she let it rest, or quickly pull away? This sets the tone for what you’re going to need to do on the date. If she lets it rest and seems compliant, you can even move your hands down her sides and have them rest on her hips. Then you can stand there for a bit talking to her maintaining that contact. Only 1 out of 10 girls will be OK with this level of physicality right away.
Pull away and order a drink for each of you. Pay the tab on the spot so you don’t need to close out at the end.
Ideally, sit next to her, but if you can't, don't force it. Once you gain more compliance, you can ask her to come sit closer to you.
Subcommunication
You should maintain laser eye contact with squinting slayer eyes, looking away sometimes if she's a value girl.
Your tonality should be slow, with a low, masculine voice. Don't project loudly or overly react to things she's saying. Talk cool, calm, collected, masculine. No uptalk.
You should be leaning back and staying loose. Leaning in is a sign of supplication. Make it look natural, not posed. Make it look like you own the venue.
When silences happen, that's your opportunity to really crank up the subcomms. Move closer. Intensify eye contact. Also a great opportunity to do the "Stop staring at my lips!" bantery stuff.
Get to Know Each Other
Slowly start getting to know her. Good topics include FORD questions: family, occupation, recreation, and dreams. Avoid religion and politics. When she answers a question, don’t just jump right into another question. Respond with your own experience, challenge her on your response, or go deeper: “Why did you…”, “How did you…” You can tease sparingly during this part, but don’t overtease.
Physically, you should be holding strong eye contact this entire time. Do as much kino as possible.
Pull Pre-Seed
Around now, you should pre-seed whatever your pull excuse is. If it's your rooftop, talk about how you got your apartment, and how it's pretty cool, and how you have a rooftop. Don't mention anything about her going to the rooftop yet. The point is just to warm her up to the idea and have her imagine herself there. Don't oversell it.
Ramp it Up
At this point, steer the conversation more towards sexual topics. Good drop-in questions for this are: "So how are the guys in <your city> treating you?" or "Have you been in a relationship recently?" but there are many more ideas, just be creative.
From here, read what type of relationship she traditionally has been in. Whatever she answers, tacitly agree, but bring the frame more towards your goal. If she's a casual girl, you're down for casual. If she's a serious girl, you're down for serious, but make sure to mention you're really big on physical chemistry and (if you're there yet) how relationships without great sex don't work out. You can soften this last part by telling it as a past story rather than directly stating it.
If she's compliant to sex talk, move into this part. Talk about preferences, figure out if she's submissive, etc. As always, you can soften this by share some of your past stories and experiences so you don't have to be so direct about it. Talking about a "friend" doing it can abstract it even further, for girls who are less comfortable.
During this portion. You really have to sense whether she's comfortable and back off if she thinks you're being creepy. If you she starts getting a bit reluctant to answer: "It's OK, we're just two open and honest adults having a conversation, there's no judgement here."
Pull Seed
During or after this portion, seed the actual pull. Mention whatever your pull excuse is, and future project you and her being there, but add a disqualifier, something like "I don't know if I know you enough yet" or "I don't know if you're ready yet". You want her to be qualifying that she is ready to pull. If she doesn't bite, you know you have more comfort to build. If she bites, just say something vague like "We'll see".
Back to Comfort Building
You don't want to keep talking about sex, so ramp it back to deeper, non-sexual topics for as long as you need to build comfort.
On a high note, pitch the pull you seeded earlier. You can act like she's totally won you over and deserves to come.
If she's hesitant, add a disqualifier to steal her objections from her, like "We can only stay for 20 minutes" or "You have to promise not to keep me up late because I have a bedtime". If she still throws up objections, try and handle them as best as possible. Keep persisting until you get a no.
If she's compliant, don't waste any time. Say "Let's go" and get the hell out of there before she can change her mind.
If it takes time to get back to your place, fill it with absolutely ridiculous banter to keep her forebrain off the fact that sex might be happening.
As soon as you're through the door, you've pulled, and the rest, my friend, is home game.
Other Considerations
Social Proof
If you're in a bar or lounge, treat the staff with respect. Learn their names, ideally beforehand. It's nice to have a regular place on lock where everyone knows you and you get excellent service.
Multiple Venues?
Another thing guys are obsessed with is doing two or three venues on a date. This is an old school method, overcomplicated, and not needed. Your framework should be getting from the initial meet to the sex location, without anything in between.
The only time a second venue might be needed is if you feel like a change of scenery and she isn't quite ready to pull yet. In this case, a park or a walk around the neighborhood is just as good as any bar.
To Kiss or Not To Kiss
Beginners are obsessed with the idea of "making out" on dates, but it's actually suboptimal in every way. For one, many girls won't be comfortable with public displays of affection. Two, there's the chance you could get rejected early, and three, kissing destroys tension.
Better than making out is teasing the makeout by building tension, but not actually giving her the pleasure of kissing you. Kissing relieves tension, when your actual goal should be building tension towards the pull. There are many other, more subtle ways of building tension other than kissing.
If you're an ultra-beginner and you struggle with getting sexual, you can try kissing on some dates just to break you out of your shell, but long term it's better to wait until you're in a private location.
Radical
Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2020
Great guide
I think at this point enough guys have tracked and confirmed the kissing aspect that it should be carved in stone somewhere
I tend to move the conversation towards partying etc as a prelude to moving towards talking about sex - only a good idea if you can tell the girl has an active social life but it works nicely for the overall flow
I think at this point enough guys have tracked and confirmed the kissing aspect that it should be carved in stone somewhere
I tend to move the conversation towards partying etc as a prelude to moving towards talking about sex - only a good idea if you can tell the girl has an active social life but it works nicely for the overall flow
MILFandCookies
Member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2020
- Goal
- Monetary Freedom
- Age
- 31
- Motto
- Life is meant to be lived, not just survived
pancakemouse said:
Love this. Very detailed and actionable.
Would state it's a lot to remember, and be okay with sucking at first and getting better over time. It's not about being perfect, it's about improving.
Quality post
Zug
Member
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2021
pancakemouse said:
Agreed with literally everything you said except this part. I think I'd pay any amount of initial awkwardness to force sitting close. I think my success rate on dates is directly proportional to sitting distance.
If she tries to sit across from me, I will always say something like "No, no no no, we're not here for a job interview."
if she sits way too far from me to close the gap with a couple inches, I will say something like "Are you saving a spot for your friend?"
IMO, there is no higher form of sexual tension than a near intimate level of physical proximity, even platonically.
Your tips on pre-seed, seed, qualified pull are great. I need to implement these. I know this is one of the weakest parts of my game, but I've been skirting by on luck and sitting extremely close.
Do you really like sexual kino? I find it to be super awkward and less intense than semi platonic type kino. e.g. have her show me her rings, bracelets, necklace, tatts, hands and having physical contact for a few seconds combined with some short silent direct eye contact after. It feels more intense than sexual kino you do in the background why distracting her forebrain.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2020
Zug said:
Agree.
A lot of this has to do with NOT going to places with bad seating. Go to a place where u can sit close. I will literally tell the girl to move if she sits in a bad spot.
This was an issue that cockblocked me a lot until recently.
Zug
Member
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2021
Manganiello said:
I found a boba spot and a swanky bar nearby with loveseat couches. It's the pinnacle of good seating. You angle slightly, your knees are touching the entire time, and there's 6-12" shoulder to shoulder. I've had girls throw their leg on top of me in public.
- Joined
- May 21, 2022
- Goal
- Serve
- Age
- 30
Pancake nailed it. A few extra points:
For your venue, I've found a place that serves coffee, tea, and alcohol to be paticuraly helpful. Allows both of you to get whatever is most comfortable for you. I always get water. Girls get a variety of stuff.
If at all possible, have the girl get a drink in a glass, not a can. This way you can time your pull when she's just about finished with her drink. When it's in a can you can't tell and I've had plenty of girls want to finish the drink before leaving. You also avoid them going for a second drink and extending the date.
During the date, my conversations typically flow from small talk > passions > sex & BDSM.
To avoid going into interview mode, where you're constantly asking questions, you can use statements.
I didn't realize I was doing this, but I often talk about my dog early in the date. A few times I have mentioned to the girl that they can come meet my dog when going for the pull.
For my own personal gain, would you mind elaborating on this? What ways would you build the tension and imply you want to kiss her, but tease it instead and not deliver the kiss? Especially at that moment at the end of the date when they are expecting it the most.
For your venue, I've found a place that serves coffee, tea, and alcohol to be paticuraly helpful. Allows both of you to get whatever is most comfortable for you. I always get water. Girls get a variety of stuff.
If at all possible, have the girl get a drink in a glass, not a can. This way you can time your pull when she's just about finished with her drink. When it's in a can you can't tell and I've had plenty of girls want to finish the drink before leaving. You also avoid them going for a second drink and extending the date.
During the date, my conversations typically flow from small talk > passions > sex & BDSM.
- Small talk is usually in context to our previous conversations, areas of the city we both live in, maybe work. About 5-10 minutes. During this time my body language is mostly aloof. I'm relaxed, sprawled out on the bench next to her, slightly interested.
- Passions are any topics that will have emotions attached to them: Travel, hobbies, dreams, family dynamics, past relationships. About 20ish mins. My body is now turned more towards her, moved closer, eye contact remains constant, and I'm engaged in the conversation.
- Most of the girls I go on dates with are screened for BDSM. So I will move the conversation here, trying to ride the emotions brought up in passions, and finding out what she enjoys, what she's curious about, and sharing my own sexual experiences. Most of this conversation is trying to paint a picture of what it will be like to have sex with me. Afterwards I'll go for the pull, typically 30-45 mins in.
To avoid going into interview mode, where you're constantly asking questions, you can use statements.
- State what you like or your experience. Most girls will respond with their like or their experience.
- Use "Tell me about x". Especially great when you're talking about sex. For example, "Tell me about your interest in BDSM." Comes off much more dominant and you lead the conversation wherever you want it to go.
pancakemouse said:
I didn't realize I was doing this, but I often talk about my dog early in the date. A few times I have mentioned to the girl that they can come meet my dog when going for the pull.
pancakemouse said:
For my own personal gain, would you mind elaborating on this? What ways would you build the tension and imply you want to kiss her, but tease it instead and not deliver the kiss? Especially at that moment at the end of the date when they are expecting it the most.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2021
- Goal
- Master daygame
- Age
- 34
Hydro said:
I had just typed it, but I took a second crack at it and reposted on my blog, based on feedback that came afterwards, especially the getting to know you section from Bman which reminded me of a couple things I do as well and hadn't noted.
Zug said:
That part might have been unclear, so I rewrote it: I do try to get the girl to sit next to me, but if she declines, I don't force it. I do agree that probability of sex roughly maps to willingness to sit next to you initially, but I've observed over the years that some girls are legitimately shy and just need time to warm up. I see her refusal as a challenge to build enough compliance so that I can re-ask later in the date.
I do think beginners should be a bit more hardline about getting the girl to sit next to them, though, as the easiest way to build tension for beginners is kino. At the point I'm at, which is beyond the scope of this guide, I'm confident in my ability to build tension no matter where the girl is sitting: either verbally or through body language and eye contact.
I do semi-platonic kino in the first part of the date and escalate to sexual kino if needed. I don't always do more sexual kino in public, though, for a similar reason to kissing. But if we're in a more secluded spot and I feel like the girl needs to be heated up, that's when I deploy it.
Bman said:
One example: getting really close to her and making the first part of your movement like you're going in for a kiss, but instead diverting and commenting on her earrings, or (this might come later in the escalation) whispering into her ear or stroking her chin or neck.
The tension lies in subverting the expected.
The game I'm working on these days relies on making the girl chase as much as possible. I want to build open loop after open loop until she's heated up and just bursting to have sex with me.