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Seriously, what do you want in life? Where do you want to go?

One thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is that if most people don't choose to have children, then this whole human experiment will cease to exist.

Almost like it's a responsibility most of us need to take on just to ensure humanity continues existing.

To me it feels so foundational it's almost like it's the meaning of life (or at least it feels like it needs to be the meaning of life for most of us).

I totally agree. Its also strange to me people downplay having children, or being a good parent. Like, I seriously can't think of many things that you should be proud of more than producing strong healthy children that make the world better. The idea that traveling to Italy to sip wine and eat pizza and post it on instagram is a lifestyle more worthy of respect and social status is truly insane.
 
I totally agree. Its also strange to me people downplay having children, or being a good parent. Like, I seriously can't think of many things that you should be proud of more than producing strong healthy children that make the world better. The idea that traveling to Italy to sip wine and eat pizza and post it on instagram is a lifestyle more worthy of respect and social status is truly insane.
It's not hard to see why there are a lot of people who don't want children. The childfree perspective is definitely more common among my generation.

Children are expensive as hell. A lot of young people are financially struggling, and with inflation and the worsening economy, it's becoming harder and harder to maintain a decent quality of life in addition to taking care of children.

In addition, children are stressful and time consuming. You basically have to put your own life goals on hold to raise them.

This additional stressor can also lead to more marital problems and tension.

Furthermore, the world we live in seems to be rapidly deteriorating, and to me it feels questionable to bring a child into such a world. It might be a doomer perspective, but I think it's a realistic one.

That said, I myself am undecided on whether I will have children. When I was younger I said I was childfree, but honestly, if that was really true I'd get a vasectomy right now. I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here, but I fail to see how having children is required to have a happy and fulfilling life.
 
Children are expensive as hell. A lot of young people are financially struggling, and with inflation and the worsening economy, it's becoming harder and harder to maintain a decent quality of life in addition to taking care of children.
This is the number one reason I've waited so long to have them, and why most people wait longer than they'd like, or never have them at all
 
I totally agree. Its also strange to me people downplay having children, or being a good parent. Like, I seriously can't think of many things that you should be proud of more than producing strong healthy children that make the world better. The idea that traveling to Italy to sip wine and eat pizza and post it on instagram is a lifestyle more worthy of respect and social status is truly insane.
Imagine sitting with your son or daughter in Italy, sipping wine after they have graduated. Much more fulfilling.

It's not hard to see why there are a lot of people who don't want children. The childfree perspective is definitely more common among my generation.
The thing is, people are just too young and not intellectually ready to see the longterm outcome of this decision.

Children are expensive as hell. A lot of young people are financially struggling, and with inflation and the worsening economy, it's becoming harder and harder to maintain a decent quality of life in addition to taking care of children.
This argument is used again and again. However, people with significantly poorer financial circumstances do not ask themselves this question. That's too simple, the reasons are more complicated.
 
I want to live the player lifestyle for a bit and have children. I’m hopeful of finding a partner I click with but that’s extremely challenging in the modern world and I’m fine with having children and living alone with some form of shared custody. I do screen for maternal instincts in women on dates. If it’s anything less than a “hell yeah I need babies to feel fulfilled” I downgrade them to never long term potential.

I do wonder what the world is going to look like in 50 years especially in places like South Korea where the fertility rate is 0.7 (2.1 is required to maintain the population). Unless there’s a huge breakthrough in extending life expectancy, these countries are basically finished.

I also notice fewer women looking at babies or children when I’m on the streets. I wasn’t used to this growing up. My high school girlfriend and her female friends would stand outside the school bus and greet the 1st and 2nd graders when they entered the bus and gush at them (my school had grades 1-12). Before, when out on the streets I would see women of all ages go “awww he’s so cute” at random babies and children but now I mostly see that reaction for dogs.
 
This argument is used again and again. However, people with significantly poorer financial circumstances do not ask themselves this question. That's too simple, the reasons are more complicated.
Fair point.

Children being too expensive to have is probably mostly an opinion shared by highly educated, middle-to-upper class, westerners
 
Having children is also in diametrical opposition with the current spirit of the West: lot of people want things to be just the way they want, happen instantaneously and with low effort from their part; and in spite of the epidemic of loneliness more and more people feel uncomfortable with social interactions. In that sense children are everything a lot of millenials and GenZ hate.

I do wonder what the world is going to look like in 50 years especially in places like South Korea where the fertility rate is 0.7 (2.1 is required to maintain the population). Unless there’s a huge breakthrough in extending life expectancy, these countries are basically finished.
My prediction is, seniors will make up a greater and greater percentage of the population, will realize there's a shortage of support (fewer doctors per inhabitant, fewer people working to support their retirement...) and will open up the gates to immigration (you see that in Japan, over the past year I've seen South East Asians pop up behind convenience store counters and as manual workers, something I really thought was impossible given Japan's xenophobia, especially towards SE Asian). And maybe some opportunistic politician will start pushing laws promoting births (see USSR's tax on childlessness, which a politician in Ukraine put again on the table this year).
 
Children are expensive as hell. A lot of young people are financially struggling, and with inflation and the worsening economy, it's becoming harder and harder to maintain a decent quality of life in addition to taking care of children.

If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. That said, people have been producing dozens of children while being in poverty since the dawn of humanity. The idea that poverty prevents childbirth is the exact opposite of the truth. The people having the most children have the lowest socioeconomic status and live in the poorest countries.

in addition, children are stressful and time consuming. You basically have to put your own life goals on hold to raise them.

This additional stressor can also lead to more marital problems and tension

What exactly is the point of getting married if not to produce children? What advantage is there, especially to a man? To give a woman leverage over half your assets? Seriously, if you're a man in the West and getting married for any reason other than starting a family, I seriously question your wisdom and intelligence. There is no benefit to you or the relationship by doing so.

As far as life goals, what do you have to do that's more important? I don't understand the argument. If you're struggling with last stretch of school or something, fine. Otherwise, I just don't get it. The entire point of the struggle for wealth, status, and a partner is to create the ideal family unit. At least in my opinion. I get other people don't feel that way, but I've heard very, very few coherent arguments for more important activities that people should be doing. We sacrifice what's less important for what's more important. That's why we diet, that's why we're not drug addicts, that's why we spend time in the gym, etc.

Furthermore, the world we live in seems to be rapidly deteriorating, and to me it feels questionable to bring a child into such a world. It might be a doomer perspective, but I think it's a realistic one.

This is so fucking dumb it offends me. The world has never, ever been better. This is the golden age of humanity. Everyone throughout the history of humanity had greater struggles and less access to resources. All of their futures were more bleak, with less agency, less information, and a shorter lifespan. The idea that its questionable to bring a child into this world is only proof that you think this world sucks, and further implicitly suggests it would be better if you were never born at all.

At no point in my life have I been ungrateful to be alive. Even when I was an obese incel living like a hermit. I still had access to food, shelter, entertainment, health care, personal agency, and access to information. This world is amazing, and it would be even more amazing if people took the task of raising good children seriously and acknowledge its something worthy of praise.

IMO, the real reason people don't want children is because they are afraid of any form of responsibility and have yet to mature past childhood. The idea that duties and responsibilities only make your life worse is the mindset of a child. If you don't believe this, take the opposite extreme. Surviving off UBI in gov't housing and food stamps, free health care, spending your money only on entertainment and drugs. A life entirely devoid of duty and responsibility, devoted only to pleasure seeking. Does anyone seriously consider that a positive fulfilling life? What kind of character would that person have? What would they be proud of?
 
Iam not sure if Iam right in this topic, but since its about what one wants in life (in regards to women):

Many users here are coping the absolut fucking shit out themselves with superficial sex and avoiding responsibility and emotional closeness with women.

Just be careful your not tricking yourself into believing you want something in life which you deep inside you dont.

If you are not sure take 2,5-3gramms of magic mushrooms and question yourself.
 
Like OP at 33 I see myself staring at an intersection with a few life paths to choose.

1. Stop trying to chase fun/casual sex and find someone who likes me, that perhaps don't like as much (see below), and have a "normal" life with. Retire at 65 and die in a nursing home.
2. Keep trying to find my unicorn (see below) and not settle until I find it, or something very close to it.
3. Give up on dating completely, make myself financially free by mid-late 40s, retire early to South East Asia, live my days doing P4P or get into a relationship with someone that most probably sees me as a Visa ticket and get washed, eerily similar to my father's story.

My unicorn would be short, athletic, small boobs, pierced nipples, a few-many tattoos, nice ass, a high libido, kinky as shit and not into it being monogamy. Not fussed on job or education level as long as they weren't a complete idiot. My current (and forever) issue is I always attract the complete opposite of this - very vanilla, non edgy girls that aren't into the gym or playing sports. You know, the "no hookups or casual" types that definitely won't sleep with you quickly.

Thing is I've had a about 3 unicorns along the journey that I couldn't keep, or life circumstances got in the way (such as living in different states etc). I just haven't had luck on my side for a very long time and hope is slowly fading.

The hard part is knowing there are guys out there in the world, even on this forum, that have what I want despite putting in my best, yet futile efforts. And thats a bitter pill to swallow.
 
Like OP at 33 I see myself staring at an intersection with a few life paths to choose.

1. Stop trying to chase fun/casual sex and find someone who likes me, that perhaps don't like as much (see below), and have a "normal" life with. Retire at 65 and die in a nursing home.
2. Keep trying to find my unicorn (see below) and not settle until I find it, or something very close to it.
3. Give up on dating completely, make myself financially free by mid-late 40s, retire early to South East Asia, live my days doing P4P or get into a relationship with someone that most probably sees me as a Visa ticket and get washed, eerily similar to my father's story.

My unicorn would be short, athletic, small boobs, pierced nipples, a few-many tattoos, nice ass, a high libido, kinky as shit and not into it being monogamy. Not fussed on job or education level as long as they weren't a complete idiot. My current (and forever) issue is I always attract the complete opposite of this - very vanilla, non edgy girls that aren't into the gym or playing sports. You know, the "no hookups or casual" types that definitely won't sleep with you quickly.

Thing is I've had a about 3 unicorns along the journey that I couldn't keep, or life circumstances got in the way (such as living in different states etc). I just haven't had luck on my side for a very long time and hope is slowly fading.

The hard part is knowing there are guys out there in the world, even on this forum, that have what I want despite putting in my best, yet futile efforts. And thats a bitter pill to swallow.
So all in all, your unicorn is what many men would describe as the opposite of a unicorn. More of a promiscuous woman. No judgment here, go for it, but mine would be exactly the opposite. You should easily find what you are looking for , women like you describe are actually all over the place.

I wouldn't take this SEA thing too seriously. If you were a fat, boring, loser cliche SEA passport bro, sure. But if you stay reasonably attractive, don't get fat, and take care of yourself, you're the best thing a woman there can get, regardless of visa.
 
Just to add up to this children conversation. I don't know if I haven't matured yet enough or I'm just shallow but for me one the key aspects is the fear of what happens to my partners body after birth.

Im single right now but I dated really beautiful and warm hearted single mother in her 20's. But her lower body had taken quite a hit. I couldn't stop thinking how she will look if she gets another child and how she will look when she gets older.

All these horror stories where sex life and affection fades away after child, because it changed the woman so much. And then you start to crave other women who are still in one piece. Or maybe when you reach that stage where you're in long relationship and finally decide to get a child together, nothing else matters anymore? Hard to tell.
 
Just to add up to this children conversation. I don't know if I haven't matured yet enough or I'm just shallow but for me one the key aspects is the fear of what happens to my partners body after birth.

Im single right now but I dated really beautiful and warm hearted single mother in her 20's. But her lower body had taken quite a hit. I couldn't stop thinking how she will look if she gets another child and how she will look when she gets older.
Talking about the body, I think it depends.
One of my FWB's is a mother, she is 28 and has a perfect body, even without doing sports. We were already intimate before I knew about the child and I would never have noticed it. Flat stomach, no pregnancy marks and she is also very tight in the lower place. But purely genetically she is just a slim woman, the entire bone structure of her is great. I think women who have more normal body types get more damage from pregnancy.
Damn, if she didn't have the child, she would be my gf, also a fantastic personality. But she has shared parenting, she's raising a child with another man, I'm just the "lover." A relationship with this circumstances is unimaginable for me.

All these horror stories where sex life and affection fades away after child, because it changed the woman so much. And then you start to crave other women who are still in one piece. Or maybe when you reach that stage where you're in long relationship and finally decide to get a child together, nothing else matters anymore? Hard to tell.
The other thing is that most (not all) women want to have children sooner or later. If this is not fulfilled, it is also the end of the relationship, something like this should actually be clear at the beginning.
 
So all in all, your unicorn is what many men would describe as the opposite of a unicorn. More of a promiscuous woman. No judgment here, go for it, but mine would be exactly the opposite. You should easily find what you are looking for , women like you describe are actually all over the place.
I guess so, maybe as I've not been on the receiving end of much promiscuity I want/value that more. I could probably count both hands how many times a woman has worn sexy/matching lingerie for me.

I wouldn't take this SEA thing too seriously. If you were a fat, boring, loser cliche SEA passport bro, sure. But if you stay reasonably attractive, don't get fat, and take care of yourself, you're the best thing a woman there can get, regardless of visa.
Very true. The contrast in attention from and quality/hotness of girls in SEA comparison to Australia for me is mind boggling. Makes me dream often of way out of Australia permanently. Annual vacations will have to do for now.
 
Early 30's, went through this thinking process recently.

Mostly the kids vs. no kids argument, I was interested in the reasoning and lifestyles for people with no kids.

Guess what? It all boils down to (1) kids are expensive a.k.a. people not wealthy enough and (2) the "value my time and freedom" argument. There's kind of... nothing else speaking for childfree.

I've had my fun in 20's, traveled a lot, learned a lot of stuff. It's cool while it lasts, but eventually it becomes unfulfilling without a higher purpose. The initial purpose was $$$ and making myself attractive, well, now I have it. Now what? Better apartment? Cooler parties? Cooler travel? Even more fitness, more muscle? More chicks?

To me, hedonistic shit is only surface-level fulfillment. Including the good stuff like sports, learning, self-development, etc. Infinite self-development - what for? We have limited time, limited resources. The law of diminishing returns kicks in. It was very cool in the 20's, branching out in every direction. Right now? The clock is ticking. Everything has an opportunity cost.

As Elon & Peterson said on a podcast - kids are a vote for the future. The most optimistic thing you can do in your life.

What helped me was look at things from an infinite resources perspective. If I had it all - multi-million liquid net worth, a great family-oriented girl, a nice life that I like, endless leisure/work opportunities but no longer have to work for money.

Would I want the kids?

For me, the answer is hell yeah.

So that's what I'm aiming for. Make my millies, keep meeting girls. When the next right one comes along (they do every couple of years), see if we can ride it out together. Start slow, and then when I'm no longer interested in pursuing anything else, then do it.

Protect the money, of course. Have some setup for it.

And the girl has to be right, like, very very right. The girls I've enjoyed being the most in my life have all been family oriented in their personality/psychology. With a lot more packed on top, of course. Truly outstanding women.

I know exactly what to look for there, for compatibility with me and everything else. I'm at the stage where I can literally "feel" those things about girls now. Unfortunately that you can only do through having had multiple relationships including bad ones, and a lot of people analysis. Just references.

And then enjoy - the beauty and the suffering.

Ah yes, preferably have the girl come from money too. And raise the kids somewhere near grandparents, it's not a 2-people job.
 
Having children is also in diametrical opposition with the current spirit of the West: lot of people want things to be just the way they want, happen instantaneously and with low effort from their part; and in spite of the epidemic of loneliness more and more people feel uncomfortable with social interactions. In that sense children are everything a lot of millenials and GenZ hate.
You don't have to be a statistic, neither do you have to date one.

Who the fuck cares about the "current spirit of the west"? What the fuck is that even?
 
Glad the coomunity is thinking more deeply about life, relationships, and progressively ejaculating out of the confines of a hip thrust based existence

It is shocking out there, and it will remain that way, apart for those who are brave enough to go against the grain and be the individuals who can become successful examples of men who can create people of substance and quality, and build quality relationships.

Something really isn't working, and I don’t like the trends I see out there. The women I personally met when cooming and living the lifestyle were absolute abysmal garbage for the most part, and the material I was coomsuming from Andy about women being super nice and and sweet for the year before I took the plunge was literally trolling lmfao. But I understand why he is able to see it the way he does, and still love Andy a lot, though I can see the massive cluelessness he has around anything to do with relationships and dating. I don’t judge him for that at all. Just Exist bros have too much ego built up their supposed knowledge and skill to accept their uselessness.

Looking at what is going on out there, this really can’t be it for our soyciety, and there has to be some form of hope for future generations. It appears to be rotting in epic fashion out here, and whilst I can’t control that, I can myself embody the values I seek to see in the world, of love, connection, and genuine community, and stop the useless cooming and giving time and attention to the most low-quality women who have walked the earth

Muh body count of 500 plus narcissistic personality disorder, inability to pair bond, severe attachment issues and being part of the downfall of human civilisation isn’t going to be it for me. NO THANKS JEFF.

Making a personal stand and finding a gem of a woman who isn’t a vapid and base whore to start a family with IMO is the most powerful thing I could do as a human being to just say NO to the way soyciety and perpetual hedonistic cooming is going. Individual agency to not further foster the development of a generation of shattered human beings who are more lonely and mentally ill than ever

Fuck all that brah. I’m gonna create something real, building something transformative, and do something about this shit

That is what I want to do with my life and what I’ll do when I heal more

MAC OUT
 
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