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Gabriel's log

Holden said:
You should make money obviously but it's a persistent lie, borne from ignorance and lack of experience, that making money will help with getting girls.

You need enough money for your own place to stay, and enough time to hit on girls. That is enough.

Obviously you need money in life. But not for girls.

I got started early. Nightgame at 15. Then started having success at 18 as a broke college student. But college = time + proximity to girls and I had 3 years of going out, learning "game" and socializing under my belt.

Then got a job and I remember thinking, "now that I have my own apartment as opposed to shitty student accommodation, I'm going to flex on all the students living here and swim in pussy."

Not really. I mean, I got my harem lol but not because I lived in an apartment and had a steady job.

I got my first harem of 3 girls I saw weekly when I still shared a bathroom with 5 other people and slept in a one-person bed.

Somewhere along the development of this "subculture", when it went from PUA to "red pill", it became fashionable to advise guys to "get your shit together" before you think about dating and it results in guys slaving away their 20s and 30s trying to get a career, money, etc. and then they have the fucking apartment and the car and they get lapped by the starving artist playing guitar at the local pub.

It's more attractive to be a starving guitar player than it is to be an accountant making $50K or whatever.

Obviously things change on the extreme ends when you actually have an insane lifestyle. But for guys in the middle, going from 30K per year to 50K is not going to change a single thing, unless you specifically use that money to either get more free time (most guys, OTOH, start spending MORE time on their career/biz as they make more money) or get an apartment in a better location (which costs a lot more so guys are hesitant to do this)

Point being, and this post is a bit rushed, more money is good for its own sake but it will not help with girls. Just so you know.

In fact, telling girls about my job/biz tends to have the opposite effect where instead of them categorizing me as a scumbag playboy that will give them some orgasms then fuck off, they put me in the provider bucket and withhold sex as they think it will retain me. So paradoxically in some ways it's even worse.

All I'm saying here is, having a stable job is not sexy to women. They simply don't respond to that. It's either starving artist/poor club promoter/degen drug dealer or millionaire. The guys in the middle get fleeced.
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I'm aware of this. The starving guitar player will run laps on me. But he'll be a starving guitar player. And I'll work on something else that I believe brings me a better future (location independent middle class income doing something that I find interesting or see myself doing long term and not for money only). I do it for its own sake and for my own values.

I said in some posts above that I'm aware women prefer "loser" bartender with no long term future than guy earning comfortable six figures. I'm aware also that it's not the case that bad boy is better than "solid guy" only for one night stands. The asshole player also has benefits for retention. But there are confounding elements with this. Certain professions screen for personality types that happen to be more attractive to women (bartender screens for social skills, musician/hippie screens for creativity and not giving a fuck attitude, etc.)

But I'm also aware that I don't have to adapt my life so I have better chances with women. As much as I want to have a hot girlfriend or hot plates, there other things I believe are more important, like supporting my family, being able to afford having a kid, etc.

Also, the point of MAC post was working on your life first so you can afford a player lifestyle in the first place, hence why he mentioned Scotty or Chris living off their parents to do the full time pick up thing(although in the case of Chris I think he supported himself through personal training and selling supplements).

Finally, I think there's something about "getting your shit together" that might be attractive for women in the long term for more intangible reasons. It's definitely not a matter of saying "I earn more than this guy so women will be more attracted to me", but more about your overall psychological/spiritual development. It goes beyond the financial/employment aspect, and encompasses very little things, like your social skills and the way you relate to other men, your competitive drive, your ability to figure things out (even little things like fixing the kitchen sink).

It's about being a man that can set aside pleasure, including women, in order to do what needs to be done. Although this is just a conjecture, I might be off mark here.
 
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Correct

Again there is no point even trying to explain this, just live your values and live the best life you can

It will yield the best outcomes long term. This should really be about YOU imo and what you actually want
 
Sisyphus said:
I'm aware of this. The starving guitar player will run laps on me. But he'll be a starving guitar player. And I'll work on something else that I believe brings me a better future (location independent middle class income doing something that I find interesting or see myself doing long term and not for money only). I do it for its own sake and for my own values.
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That's why I said you need to make money for its own sake, but it's a mistake to think it will help with girls.
Sisyphus said:
I said in some posts above that I'm aware women prefer "loser" bartender with no long term future than guy earning comfortable six figures. I'm aware also that it's not the case that bad boy is better than "solid guy" only for one night stands. The asshole player also has benefits for retention. But there are confounding elements with this. Certain professions screen for personality types that happen to be more attractive to women (bartender screens for social skills, musician/hippie screens for creativity and not giving a fuck attitude, etc.)

But I'm also aware that I don't have to adapt my life so I have better chances with women.
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Yeah, you should cultivate these traits (social skills, creativity, not giving a fuck attitude). If I could go back in time I'd get a job as a bartender 100%. As it turned out I got into sales on the side, and that was very beneficial too.

What all these "sexy jobs" have in common though: they're high status. Everyone wants the bartender's attention at the bar. Everyone is looking at the guitar player on stage. Everyone wants to be the drug dealer's friend.

It's about status.
Sisyphus said:
Also, the point of MAC post was working on your life first so you can afford a player lifestyle in the first place, hence why he mentioned Scotty or Chris living off their parents to do the full time pick up thing(although in the case of Chris I think he supported himself through personal training and selling supplements).
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Yeah, you need money. But just enough to get a place and get free time to hit on chicks. If you're trying to build your own business you're going to hit the work treadmill for a few years.

If I had to start from zero (including turning back the clock) I'd prioritize girls over money 100% of the time. Especially in the internet age. Money comes easily and it scales. Building up skills with women, you better do it in your formative years.

I'm aware not everyone started as early as I did - there will be a trade-off. The point is, one trade is time-dependent, and another one less so.

You can start a company when you're 35, sell it when you're 40, and be rich. Getting *started* with women at age 35, there's so much social damage do be undone, it's a tough thing.
Sisyphus said:
Finally, I think there's something about "getting your shit together" that might be attractive for women in the long term for more intangible reasons. It's definitely not a matter of saying "I earn more than this guy so women will be more attractive", but more about your overall psychological/spiritual development. It goes beyond the financial/employment aspect, and encompasses very little things, like your social skills and the way you relate to other men, your competitive drive, your ability to figure things out (even little things like fixing the kitchen sink).
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Nothing will boost your confidence and social skills like having abundance with women.
Sisyphus said:
It's about being a man that can set aside pleasure, including women, in order to do what needs to be done. Although this is just a conjecture, I might be off mark here.
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Are you really "setting aside pleasure" or is pleasure something you cannot attain and then you convince yourself you need to stop chasing it?

Hunk and Boytoy were GLL OG's who had laycounts in the 100s who voluntarily went through periods of celibacy. That's putting aside pleasure. Chris said goodbye to the player lifestyle to build Happy Hippo and Derek from MPMD did the same.

There's a difference between guys like that "putting aside pleasure", and guys who, by their own admission, didn't get to where they want and then decide the road is not worth travelling.
 
I'll just finish by reiterating that it was a tough awakening for me to realize that getting an apartment didn't translate to significantly more success, and to see with my own eyes that when I talked about my (relatively high status) job and biz, girls put me in the provider bucket whereas previously I never had that problem.

Now, was my life objectively better living in an apartment with my own bathroom and a nice big bed? Yes of course

But if I ever had to make a choice between living like a bum with 5 others, and having my harem of girls, or having my apartment but not getting laid, I know which one I'd pick in a heartbeat.

You can say life is not about girls, well it's not about money either. And in fact, I disagree wholeheartedly that it's not about girls. Life's about human connection and girls are a large part of that. As for myself I'm very satisfied I (hopefully) avoided the fate of waking up at 45 with the mid wife in a sexless marriage thinking "what if"
 
Money does not either come easily or scale easily. Especially not online, in 2024. Just about everyone is having to deal with that.

There are lots of men who got shit tonnes of abundance/success with women and still remained very unhappy, and for whom none of that translated to success in life - MOST guys who I know who have real abundance and top tier success are top 1% earners who have the time, comfort and security to pimp these hoes and they had their career in order FIRST.

Many ways to skin the cat, gotta let the guy find his own path. This is a complex game for many who are not in Just Exist mode, and I do not think there is actually a "just take care of success with women FIRST" (lmao) for many dudes anymore. It will have to be done in waves over a few years. And the clock really is ticking. Because this shit is quite complex, has huge numbers of variables few are even aware of, and the results you may seek are not guaranteed at all, it is a useful thing to do is hedge your bets and have built a pretty good life overall, so you will have that to show for it.

It is absolutely fine for people to take seasons to do other things, and build up other areas of their life. I cannot actually believe we have to state this. But trying to be patient atm. Remember, this is actually people's lives. Ethically, we must be extremely careful about pushing people to do things that might not be aligned for them, and take into consideration other variables in their life. There is context for all of this.

Gotta respect people & their internal navigation system IMO. Let them do their own work & form their own conclusions about what is best for the,. I think OP is on their way to a breakthrough for themselves.

-MAC
 
No one is making anyone do anything. Just sharing my own experience. Clock ticks for everyone. So we all have to make a choice how to spend our time. I've said how I spent mine and how it turned out for me, others and OP can do with that info what they will and form their own conclusions, obviously.
 
Yeah, just wanted to state this. I don't feel pushed to anything lol
I value all inputs as long as they are experienced based and well thought. Holden, I value that you took the time to write those posts and you do make solid points.

There's a lot I'd like to respond but I don't want enter into theory realm again.

But what stuck with me is that yes, I haven't accomplished what I wanted with girls. So I don't get to run my mouth and say whether the grapes are sour or not. I have to earn that right.

Perhaps there are so many posts lately that talk about sex being overrated, going monk mode, etc. that it may seem that I'm repeating the same. I've had great experiences with girls, provided I find them attractive, are cool to hang out with, etc. and overall the rejection and bullshit you go through to get the outcomes has been worth it.

It's just that in my situation, for a bunch of variables, making money is more important. I'm not even trying to create a business at this point, I'm learning skill/trade (video editing) ,getting experience/building a track record and automating my own productivity (mainly fixing adhd), all which will make my life easier.

Agree that relationships are important. Money at this point will allow me to help people that are close to me and I value.

So it's not that I say that sex is trash, but that there are more important issues for me, and also what I've written elsewhere, my goal is to have 2 or 3 reasonably attractive plates, or at least get a cute/hot girlfriend, having the certainty that I can create options so I don't get into an ltr out of scarcity.

I'm aware I'll probably have to baby step my way into that goal and fuck a bunch of mid chicks, but I believe that is not good enough and I need to improve my inner/outer game, and getting coaching will accelerate that process drastically, and I need money for that, or at least I need money to travel to other cities to approach with other wings (there are none that I know of where I live).

So those are the reasons for the most part.
 
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