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Gabriel's log

Holden said:
You should make money obviously but it's a persistent lie, borne from ignorance and lack of experience, that making money will help with getting girls.

You need enough money for your own place to stay, and enough time to hit on girls. That is enough.

Obviously you need money in life. But not for girls.

I got started early. Nightgame at 15. Then started having success at 18 as a broke college student. But college = time + proximity to girls and I had 3 years of going out, learning "game" and socializing under my belt.

Then got a job and I remember thinking, "now that I have my own apartment as opposed to shitty student accommodation, I'm going to flex on all the students living here and swim in pussy."

Not really. I mean, I got my harem lol but not because I lived in an apartment and had a steady job.

I got my first harem of 3 girls I saw weekly when I still shared a bathroom with 5 other people and slept in a one-person bed.

Somewhere along the development of this "subculture", when it went from PUA to "red pill", it became fashionable to advise guys to "get your shit together" before you think about dating and it results in guys slaving away their 20s and 30s trying to get a career, money, etc. and then they have the fucking apartment and the car and they get lapped by the starving artist playing guitar at the local pub.

It's more attractive to be a starving guitar player than it is to be an accountant making $50K or whatever.

Obviously things change on the extreme ends when you actually have an insane lifestyle. But for guys in the middle, going from 30K per year to 50K is not going to change a single thing, unless you specifically use that money to either get more free time (most guys, OTOH, start spending MORE time on their career/biz as they make more money) or get an apartment in a better location (which costs a lot more so guys are hesitant to do this)

Point being, and this post is a bit rushed, more money is good for its own sake but it will not help with girls. Just so you know.

In fact, telling girls about my job/biz tends to have the opposite effect where instead of them categorizing me as a scumbag playboy that will give them some orgasms then fuck off, they put me in the provider bucket and withhold sex as they think it will retain me. So paradoxically in some ways it's even worse.

All I'm saying here is, having a stable job is not sexy to women. They simply don't respond to that. It's either starving artist/poor club promoter/degen drug dealer or millionaire. The guys in the middle get fleeced.
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I'm aware of this. The starving guitar player will run laps on me. But he'll be a starving guitar player. And I'll work on something else that I believe brings me a better future (location independent middle class income doing something that I find interesting or see myself doing long term and not for money only). I do it for its own sake and for my own values.

I said in some posts above that I'm aware women prefer "loser" bartender with no long term future than guy earning comfortable six figures. I'm aware also that it's not the case that bad boy is better than "solid guy" only for one night stands. The asshole player also has benefits for retention. But there are confounding elements with this. Certain professions screen for personality types that happen to be more attractive to women (bartender screens for social skills, musician/hippie screens for creativity and not giving a fuck attitude, etc.)

But I'm also aware that I don't have to adapt my life so I have better chances with women. As much as I want to have a hot girlfriend or hot plates, there other things I believe are more important, like supporting my family, being able to afford having a kid, etc.

Also, the point of MAC post was working on your life first so you can afford a player lifestyle in the first place, hence why he mentioned Scotty or Chris living off their parents to do the full time pick up thing(although in the case of Chris I think he supported himself through personal training and selling supplements).

Finally, I think there's something about "getting your shit together" that might be attractive for women in the long term for more intangible reasons. It's definitely not a matter of saying "I earn more than this guy so women will be more attracted to me", but more about your overall psychological/spiritual development. It goes beyond the financial/employment aspect, and encompasses very little things, like your social skills and the way you relate to other men, your competitive drive, your ability to figure things out (even little things like fixing the kitchen sink).

It's about being a man that can set aside pleasure, including women, in order to do what needs to be done. Although this is just a conjecture, I might be off mark here.
 
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Correct

Again there is no point even trying to explain this, just live your values and live the best life you can

It will yield the best outcomes long term. This should really be about YOU imo and what you actually want
 
Sisyphus said:
I'm aware of this. The starving guitar player will run laps on me. But he'll be a starving guitar player. And I'll work on something else that I believe brings me a better future (location independent middle class income doing something that I find interesting or see myself doing long term and not for money only). I do it for its own sake and for my own values.
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That's why I said you need to make money for its own sake, but it's a mistake to think it will help with girls.
Sisyphus said:
I said in some posts above that I'm aware women prefer "loser" bartender with no long term future than guy earning comfortable six figures. I'm aware also that it's not the case that bad boy is better than "solid guy" only for one night stands. The asshole player also has benefits for retention. But there are confounding elements with this. Certain professions screen for personality types that happen to be more attractive to women (bartender screens for social skills, musician/hippie screens for creativity and not giving a fuck attitude, etc.)

But I'm also aware that I don't have to adapt my life so I have better chances with women.
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Yeah, you should cultivate these traits (social skills, creativity, not giving a fuck attitude). If I could go back in time I'd get a job as a bartender 100%. As it turned out I got into sales on the side, and that was very beneficial too.

What all these "sexy jobs" have in common though: they're high status. Everyone wants the bartender's attention at the bar. Everyone is looking at the guitar player on stage. Everyone wants to be the drug dealer's friend.

It's about status.
Sisyphus said:
Also, the point of MAC post was working on your life first so you can afford a player lifestyle in the first place, hence why he mentioned Scotty or Chris living off their parents to do the full time pick up thing(although in the case of Chris I think he supported himself through personal training and selling supplements).
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Yeah, you need money. But just enough to get a place and get free time to hit on chicks. If you're trying to build your own business you're going to hit the work treadmill for a few years.

If I had to start from zero (including turning back the clock) I'd prioritize girls over money 100% of the time. Especially in the internet age. Money comes easily and it scales. Building up skills with women, you better do it in your formative years.

I'm aware not everyone started as early as I did - there will be a trade-off. The point is, one trade is time-dependent, and another one less so.

You can start a company when you're 35, sell it when you're 40, and be rich. Getting *started* with women at age 35, there's so much social damage do be undone, it's a tough thing.
Sisyphus said:
Finally, I think there's something about "getting your shit together" that might be attractive for women in the long term for more intangible reasons. It's definitely not a matter of saying "I earn more than this guy so women will be more attractive", but more about your overall psychological/spiritual development. It goes beyond the financial/employment aspect, and encompasses very little things, like your social skills and the way you relate to other men, your competitive drive, your ability to figure things out (even little things like fixing the kitchen sink).
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Nothing will boost your confidence and social skills like having abundance with women.
Sisyphus said:
It's about being a man that can set aside pleasure, including women, in order to do what needs to be done. Although this is just a conjecture, I might be off mark here.
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Are you really "setting aside pleasure" or is pleasure something you cannot attain and then you convince yourself you need to stop chasing it?

Hunk and Boytoy were GLL OG's who had laycounts in the 100s who voluntarily went through periods of celibacy. That's putting aside pleasure. Chris said goodbye to the player lifestyle to build Happy Hippo and Derek from MPMD did the same.

There's a difference between guys like that "putting aside pleasure", and guys who, by their own admission, didn't get to where they want and then decide the road is not worth travelling.
 
I'll just finish by reiterating that it was a tough awakening for me to realize that getting an apartment didn't translate to significantly more success, and to see with my own eyes that when I talked about my (relatively high status) job and biz, girls put me in the provider bucket whereas previously I never had that problem.

Now, was my life objectively better living in an apartment with my own bathroom and a nice big bed? Yes of course

But if I ever had to make a choice between living like a bum with 5 others, and having my harem of girls, or having my apartment but not getting laid, I know which one I'd pick in a heartbeat.

You can say life is not about girls, well it's not about money either. And in fact, I disagree wholeheartedly that it's not about girls. Life's about human connection and girls are a large part of that. As for myself I'm very satisfied I (hopefully) avoided the fate of waking up at 45 with the mid wife in a sexless marriage thinking "what if"
 
Money does not either come easily or scale easily. Especially not online, in 2024. Just about everyone is having to deal with that.

There are lots of men who got shit tonnes of abundance/success with women and still remained very unhappy, and for whom none of that translated to success in life - MOST guys who I know who have real abundance and top tier success are top 1% earners who have the time, comfort and security to pimp these hoes and they had their career in order FIRST.

Many ways to skin the cat, gotta let the guy find his own path. This is a complex game for many who are not in Just Exist mode, and I do not think there is actually a "just take care of success with women FIRST" (lmao) for many dudes anymore. It will have to be done in waves over a few years. And the clock really is ticking. Because this shit is quite complex, has huge numbers of variables few are even aware of, and the results you may seek are not guaranteed at all, it is a useful thing to do is hedge your bets and have built a pretty good life overall, so you will have that to show for it.

It is absolutely fine for people to take seasons to do other things, and build up other areas of their life. I cannot actually believe we have to state this. But trying to be patient atm. Remember, this is actually people's lives. Ethically, we must be extremely careful about pushing people to do things that might not be aligned for them, and take into consideration other variables in their life. There is context for all of this.

Gotta respect people & their internal navigation system IMO. Let them do their own work & form their own conclusions about what is best for the,. I think OP is on their way to a breakthrough for themselves.

-MAC
 
No one is making anyone do anything. Just sharing my own experience. Clock ticks for everyone. So we all have to make a choice how to spend our time. I've said how I spent mine and how it turned out for me, others and OP can do with that info what they will and form their own conclusions, obviously.
 
Yeah, just wanted to state this. I don't feel pushed to anything lol
I value all inputs as long as they are experienced based and well thought. Holden, I value that you took the time to write those posts and you do make solid points.

There's a lot I'd like to respond but I don't want enter into theory realm again.

But what stuck with me is that yes, I haven't accomplished what I wanted with girls. So I don't get to run my mouth and say whether the grapes are sour or not. I have to earn that right.

Perhaps there are so many posts lately that talk about sex being overrated, going monk mode, etc. that it may seem that I'm repeating the same. I've had great experiences with girls, provided I find them attractive, are cool to hang out with, etc. and overall the rejection and bullshit you go through to get the outcomes has been worth it.

It's just that in my situation, for a bunch of variables, making money is more important. I'm not even trying to create a business at this point, I'm learning skill/trade (video editing) ,getting experience/building a track record and automating my own productivity (mainly fixing adhd), all which will make my life easier.

Agree that relationships are important. Money at this point will allow me to help people that are close to me and I value.

So it's not that I say that sex is trash, but that there are more important issues for me, and also what I've written elsewhere, my goal is to have 2 or 3 reasonably attractive plates, or at least get a cute/hot girlfriend, having the certainty that I can create options so I don't get into an ltr out of scarcity.

I'm aware I'll probably have to baby step my way into that goal and fuck a bunch of mid chicks, but I believe that is not good enough and I need to improve my inner/outer game, and getting coaching will accelerate that process drastically, and I need money for that, or at least I need money to travel to other cities to approach with other wings (there are none that I know of where I live).

So those are the reasons for the most part.
 
November 4th

Primary goals
  • Work: Fail. I only worked for 6h 50m and wasted time watching countless tutorials instead of actually working
  • Wakeup time: 5:30 am
Secondary goals
  • Nofap: Success
  • Sun gazing: cloudy day
  • Approached one girl at campus library. Boyfriend objection. I think it was bs but I didn't want to persist too much in that environment. On the street I would have persisted way more. My approach wasn't the best, I was feeling kinda tense, way too many people around. I need to accept that in some situations I'm not going to flow so easily but still do the approach anyway. Nonetheless, the girl didn't reacted badly or anything. I haven't had creeped out reactions in a long time so that's good.
Approach is cool is guess, it's good to train the social freedom muscle. But I can't lose sight of the true goal. The goal is to overcome adhd.
 
November 5th

Primary goals
  • Work: 8h 10m. Did two blocks of completely focused work.
  • Wakeup time: 6:30 am
Secondary goals

  • No pmo: success
  • Approach: didn't go out
  • Sun gazing: fail, but did early morning walk
My sleep schedule isn't good. I'm going to sleep 0:30am but I'm forcing myself to wake up early because I feel it's really important. Waking up 6am feels more productive than 8:30 am.

I don't have insomnia in the sense of not being able to sleep but I have a hard time winding down and turning my PC off. I always feel like I didn't get enough done.
 
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Sisyphus said:
My sleep schedule isn't good. I'm going to sleep 0:30am but I'm forcing myself to wake up early because I feel it's really important
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Totally unnecessary but I can see why you might think it's important. Around 7 years ago I fell for the 4am/5am wake up time trend. Didn't work at all for me. I personally go to sleep at 1am, woke up at 7.30-8 and feel great. The only reason I can see someone considering waking up earlier is if they have meetings, need to show up in Slack a certain time, or even if you want to complete X hours of work before, say, working out because after that you might feel useless (that's the case for me)
 
Crisis_Overcomer said:
Totally unnecessary but I can see why you might think it's important. Around 7 years ago I fell for the 4am/5am wake up time trend. Didn't work at all for me. I personally go to sleep at 1am, woke up at 7.30-8 and feel great. The only reason I can see someone considering waking up earlier is if they have meetings, need to show up in Slack a certain time, or even if you want to complete X hours of work before, say, working out because after that you might feel useless (that's the case for me)
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Yeah bro I'm a bit of a follower for these kinds of trends tbh but I guess I feel like I gain some psychological edge.

There's also the circadian rhythm thing and that's quite scientifically sound as far as I know. Right know it's summer here so waking up early makes sense.

Days are longer so that's maybe also why I'm sleeping less and I don't feel tired.

I'll experiment for a bit and see how it works.
 
November 6th

Primary goals
  • Work: 8h 30m. But did only one block of totally focused work.
  • Wakeup time: 6:00 am
Secondary goals
  • No pmo: success
  • Approach: fail
  • Sun gazing: fail, but did early morning walk
I saw a girl at a bus stop and hesitated to approach. I keep walking but after 10 seconds I said fuck it and decided to approach, but the girl was already gone. I was so fucking frustrated and pissed at myself for wasting that chance. Who knows if this is a girl that I could have plated? I approached the hottest girl I had sex with at a bus stop too.

Who cares about this chick in particular but I hate wasting opportunities, I hate being passive. I spent the rest of the day in a very negative mood.

Whenever I fail to approach it really gets me. For most people that is ok but I find it unbearable. However, I am also wondering why I'm hard of myself on something that's not actually relevant at the end of the day, instead of being mad at myself for the things that produce value for me and for people around me, like working more hours and better, being more industrious and orderly, etc.

For reasons beyond my control I can't stay in my room or in nature the whole day, I have to be in places where there are women around. If you think about all the possible alternatives of what could happen when you see a beautiful woman, there's a lot of room for frustration and waste of energy every step of the way:

a) You see a woman and want to approach, but you don't. Now you feel frustrated, that you wasted an opportunity that you'll never have again.

b) You see a woman and do approach but you don't get the number, or you get the number but don't get the date, or get the date but not the lay. Now you feel frustrated because you did something wrong, you were too beta, or too autistic, or weren't pushy enough.

c) You see a woman, approach and end up having sex with. But this isn't a girl you particularly care about, and inevitably, after sex, you find her less hot or interesting than when you first met her. Now you feel kinda "meh" about approach, women, sex, etc.

d) You see a woman, approach, have sex, and this is a girl that you care about. But the fact that you care about her means she's probably high smv so she's more likely to ghost. She ghosts, maybe after one date, maybe after many dates, but since you bonded with her more, her ghosting hits much more deeply than a random rejection in the street. You replay the whole movie for months, trying to find a solution, to find the exact moment where you fucked up and she lost interest, and now she lives rent free in your head.

e) You get a girlfriend/plate, and things seem to be going ok, but you never know... there's always the possibility of finding cum in her hair (true story from a guy of Voldemort's chat... the guy quit, hope he's ok). You can't just relax and hope the girl is going to love you for you. There's always game, shit tests, it never ends.

Perhaps I'm just making excuses, or I'm too neurotic. But I'm not the only one that's driven insane by all of this.

If I were a manager and wanted to extract the most productivity from my employees, I wouldn't want them to be thinking about women. I would either want them to be virgins or married or cucks. It's not a coincidence society teaches you to be exactly that.

I'm just rambling and venting out my negativity though. I'm missing all the positive experiences and growth that women can provide... or maybe this is just cope. Even the positive experiences can be a massive distraction.

I can't get derailed about my emotions though. I need to be obsessed about work, not about women. I may adopt the policy of not even looking at women, idk.
 
Sisyphus said:
can't get derailed about my emotions though.
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But you clearly do


Sisyphus said:
I spent the rest of the day in a very negative mood.
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The forum is great for venting and it’s good to get it out. Don’t be to hard on yourself. All the different contingencies with approaching girls and you saw negative and that’s fine. Is it possible that there are other outcomes? Is it possible that things will change?

You mentioned ADHD, and I (self diagnosed lol) recognise a similar spiralling pattern. Practicing some gratitude and meditation helps me
 
Adrizzle said:
Don’t be to hard on yourself.
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Exactly this. (and also agree with adrizzle that venting is perfectly ok and healthy too!)



Since I realised, "oh, I've been making serious progress", and really feeling like "I've arrived", or so to speak, I've started looking for the factors that helped me get where I am now. Things like what advantages I've got, what am I doing that my competition isn't - and I think one of my strongest is I'm always kind to myself. Like, always encouraging me. Some here have this negative voice putting themselves down, I've got the opposite, my inner voice is always encouraging, always trying to see the best in me, in a way I'm my own internal hype man. I think this is widely underrated in terms of the impact on performance.



Sisyphus said:
Whenever I fail to approach it really gets me. For most people that is ok but I find it unbearable. However, I am also wondering why I'm hard of myself on something that's not actually relevant at the end of the day, instead of being mad at myself for the things that produce value for me and for people around me, like working more hours and better, being more industrious and orderly, etc.
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What's the upside of being mad about yourself about anything you did/didn't do. Try to learn from it, and try to do better next time. You know what you want to do (approach), so try to use that motivation to approach next time, rather than beating yourself up about it. Being hard on yourself just adds more pressure and negative associations with respect to doing the approach. Catch yourself doing it and reframe it positively. All your negatives (a-e) could be reframed more positively, I actually think this is a helpful exercise.




Adrizzle said:
You mentioned ADHD, and I (self diagnosed lol) recognise a similar spiralling pattern. Practicing some gratitude and meditation helps me
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What kinda meditation do you do? Curious - the only thing that really helps me for adhd is medication (which has an enormous effect), but always keen for more edge!
 
@Adrizzle yup, there are positive outcomes. The highs are very high and the lows are very low.

And there's definitely guys that can do dating without driving themselves crazy.

Vipassana meditation helps a lot. I used to do it (a 25 minute session in the morning) but lost consistency.

@Antonio44 i'm pretty sure being hard on yourself helps as much as it hurts. But I need to think of it as one more "tool". Sort of like a buddhist "witness perspective" I need to dettach from these emotional states and see where they are useful and where they aren't.
 
November 7th

Primary goals
  • Work: 8h 30m. But did two blocks of totally focused work.
  • Wakeup time: 7:00 am
I'm getting too perfectionistic with a motion graphics thing but I need to get it done so I am not in a perpetual state of unfinished business.

Secondary goals
  • No pmo: success
  • Approach: approached 1 girl
  • Sun gazing: fail
I approached the only chance I had today. She was a hot stylish very skinny girl, dressed in all black. Failed to stop her. Tbh it wasn't an easy approach, she was talking on her phone and walking fast.

But I know I could have done things better. I lacked certainty and energy. I also framed it as a question "Can I tell you something?" Instead of saying "I need to tell you something".

When you see a hot girl there are different levels of approach anxiety. At first you can't even approach. When you get over that, anxiety is still affecting you but in more subtle ways. Like I notice myself being more beta in small ways, like framing things as questions, having a wavering tonality, shifting my gaze.

I also missed a bunch of group sets and mixed sets. Logically it's not different, in terms of anxiety, than approaching girls by themselves. But for some reason I'm more triggered and I also feel like I need a gameplan to handle different scenarios.

It kinda frustrates me but it is much better than not approaching at all and there's not a lot I can do for now, besides getting more reps in, and also work on some social circle angles.

I might go out to the club with a (guy) friend next week. He has hot girl friends so something might come out of it.

I'm not to bothered with fucking up on the approach, it's normal. And I'm too focused on what I need to get done in other areas of my life.
 
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November 8th

Primary goals
  • Work: 7h 30m. Did three blocks of totally focused work.
  • Wakeup time: 9:00 am. Completely lost my sleep schedule today.
Secondary goals
  • No pmo: did some edging while half sleep. I'm not sure if I should count that as a failure or not.
  • Approach: approached 1 girl
  • Sun gazing: fail
There's not much to analyze regarding work, besides, I need to stay focused. For the time being I don't have urgent deadlines but I still need to get used to doing things faster, and be less of a perfectionist.

I have a more clear path in my head of what I need to do to become a top 1% editor during these months.

Regarding approach, I missed two chances, both girls standing on a bus stop while sending audios. I need to stop giving a fuck about them talking to the phone and just "rudely interrupt her day".

Fuck her going to work, fuck her talking with her friends. That's all "matrix" bullshit that I choose to be "respectful" of, because of fear. One girl also seemed very young. I need to remind myself that there are girls that have an OF at the age of 18, so I need to stop giving a fuck about age gap, plus I don't look that old. I also need to remind myself that most guys are huge cucks.

I approached one girl, again at a bus stop, she rejected respectfully but in a masculine way. The girl wasn't hot at all so I decided not to persist. And it was 11pm with nobody around so it would have been creepy.

I'm befriending this guy that might help me kickstart the social circle thing. He's cool enough to have free access to a nightclub, although in another city (he's studying here, so he doesn't have a lot of connections here yet). He's down to earth and I've learnt some social skills from him. Gotta befriend more cool people.
 
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November 9th

Primary goals
  • Work: 6h 23m. Did one block of totally focused work.
  • Wakeup time: 7:00 am.
Secondary goals
  • No pmo: success
  • Approach: didn't go out
  • Sun gazing: fail
Just stayed all day at home trying to work but didn't focus too much. I guess much like approach anxiety, taming your mind for high performance, specially when no one is watching, is quite challenging. Gotta take it easy, day by day but also remind myself that I've been stuck for a week with this. But if I master this I'll be on the other side with much better editing skills.
 
Sisyphus said:
November 9th

Primary goals
  • Work: 6h 23m. Did one block of totally focused work.
  • Wakeup time: 7:00 am.
Secondary goals
  • No pmo: success
  • Approach: didn't go out
  • Sun gazing: fail
Just stayed all day at home trying to work but didn't focus too much. I guess much like approach anxiety, taming your mind for high performance, specially when no one is watching, is quite challenging. Gotta take it easy, day by day but also remind myself that I've been stuck for a week with this. But if I master this I'll be on the other side with much better editing skills.
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Here's an idea you can think of approaches as just attempts. There's no penalty for any of it. You're attempting to find someone who likes you.
When you look for something like gold, you know it wont appear every time you dig. But you know it exists and with consistent effort it will finally appear.
 
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