Brandon Builds - Conversation with the ex-wife

[Bman]

THIS WEEK'S REFLECTION

TL;DR: 8 numbers from apps, 1 number from CA turning into my first CA date, shit ton of reschedules, 0 lays, and ghosted by my current FWB.

Man this week has been frustrating. It feels like there was plenty of places to improve, which I can own. And it also feels there were places it was out of my control. Either way, it surely was not a lack of effort. Here's the breakdown.

Apps: I'm happy to have started getting quality matches on tinder, only boost once a week, and scored a couple numbers that got setup for dates. One was even a very hot tattoo instagram model. One observation I've made is it does not really matter when I boost. I have down week nights, weekend nights, and even a Wednesday morning at 9am because my thumb accidently hit the damn button and you cant stop it. Regardless of when I do it, I get roughly the same amount of matches. Between Tinder and Hinge I got 8 numbers this week but it has been shitstorm with dates. (More on that in a moment).

Cold Approach: I was busy last weekend but still wanted to get some approaches in so I went to the grocery store like 2 blocks from my apartment. I did 5 approaches, and one of them I got a number from. I told her I was hitting the pool at my place later and she asked what time I was doing that and told me to text her later when I was. I thought maybe I was going to get a streets to sheets lay, but I texted her later that day to invite her over, but she thought a bunch of people were coming over and did not feel comfortable just her and I. So I said no problem, let get drinks later in the week. So we set a date for Wednesday.

Dates: So of the 8 numbers I got, 2 immediately didn't respond when I moved to texting.

I setup a date for Monday with the instagram model, which she had to reschedule for Friday.

Tuesday I was busy, no dates.

Wednesday I had my date with the CA girl. But this was the first date I have ever set from a CA number, so I mistakenly went into it thinking that this was going to be different than a OLD date and she was probably not going to want to have sex on the first date. Went on the date and she was sending clear yes signals, commenting how attractive I was, how ballsy it was I approached her, touching me a few times. But she also talked a lot, and as an introvert I still hesitate to interrupt and I went into the date already thinking it was a no, so I never invited her back to my place. She eventually said she was going to the gym later and I was like fuck, you never asked. So I said "I'd invite you up to my place but it sounds like you're going to the gym." She asked if I was clean from STD's and then said she would be down to come over another day. We made out a bit before she left. I felt like such a dense idiot, but had to realize it was my first CA date. But lesson learned, always assume its a yes until its a definite no.

Thursday I had setup a date with a petite brunette from Hinge who wanted to explore BDSM. However I had got this number during the weekend and had to set the date far out because of all the other dates I had set earlier in the week. Well Wednesday she texted me and said she got nervous and did not want to go through with it.

So instead I setup a date for Thursday with an 18yo who was engaged but is in a poly relationship. We met at this coffee shop/ bar combo a few blocks from my house. She turned out to be a lot cuter than her Tinder photos which was awesome. We chatted for about 15 mins and I invited her back to my place. When we got there we chatted some more and I invited her to sit with me on the bed. She sat down and went in to kiss her. She was a little hesitant but then started getting into it. But then she pushed me away a little and said she doesn't usually have sex on the first date and she couldn't anyways. I didn't push into why and said that was fine. We talked about some of our kinks and things we want to try. And made out some more. She was training jiu jitsu at 7 so she had to go. So I walked her back to the coffee place and found out on the way there that her fiancé usually drives her to these first dates and had been sitting in the car the whole time at the coffee place just waiting! Like dude, I almost fucked your fiance and you were just her chauffer... painful. Anyways, she said she definitely wants to have sex, so we are set for another date next Tuesday.

Friday I was supposed to have my rescheduled date with the instagram model. But I did the normal morning checkin, and she asked to clarify if I just wanted a sexual relationship. (Which i was pretty clear about before we even setup the date) I said yes and she said she was looking for something more so probably not a good fit. Fair enough.

So I tried to set a second date with the boxer girl from New Orleans that I went on a date last week. I would have set this date up earlier in the week but she was going on a work trip till Wednesday. She was super responsive after our first date and before she left for her trip on the weekend, but then when I texted her I got nothing and still have heard nothing from her. Which sucks, especially after the rest of the week.

Friday night I boosted my Tinder and got two quality matches and numbers. One of them I tried to have her come directly to my place, but she couldn't because she was working. So we set a date for today instead. After this long week I was pretty determined to get laid. But come date time, she can't come because her babysitter was not able to come till later when she would have to go to work. So nothing today either. But we are rescheduled for tomorrow.

Tomorrow I have the rescheduled date at 4. But earlier in the week I also set a date for 8 with a married woman in a poly relationship. But this one I feel like is going to flake out on me based on our text conversations. So maybe I have two dates tomorrow which is the first time I have scheduled two dates in the same day. Or maybe I have 1.

And finally I set one more date for Monday with the other girl I matched with on Tinder.

Honestly this many dates in a week is a bit of a pain. But I'm trying to get at 3 ongoing FWB that I can see every week or so and then only be doing like 1 new date a week. But I'm in the beginning of this, so I have to put in the work.

Current FWB: Last time we saw each other we had great sex and I thought everything was peachy. I texted her last Friday to see when she was free on the weekend and got no response. I've heard nothing from her all week. I'm waiting till after the holiday weekend to text her Andy's ghosted message to see what's up. But with no new lays this week, it really sucked to get ghosted by my current FWB on top of it.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

good to see the hustle

What are the best resources for learning CA interactions and texting after?

https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/vijkxl/my_standard_cold_approach_format_that_ive_used/

^ this is the general advice I was given back in October/November of last year that shot my daygame approach->date conversion rate from like 1/400+ to 1/~50 (most people are more socially calibrated than I am too so should have even better results).

You can read my log for more details about my own implementation of this advice, but my current mentor wrote it all up in this reddit post recently.

 

[Mimbe393939]

THIS WEEK'S REFLECTION

Wednesday I had my date with the CA girl. But this was the first date I have ever set from a CA number, so I mistakenly went into it thinking that this was going to be different than a OLD date and she was probably not going to want to have sex on the first date. Went on the date and she was sending clear yes signals, commenting how attractive I was, how ballsy it was I approached her, touching me a few times. But she also talked a lot, and as an introvert I still hesitate to interrupt and I went into the date already thinking it was a no, so I never invited her back to my place. She eventually said she was going to the gym later and I was like fuck, you never asked. So I said "I'd invite you up to my place but it sounds like you're going to the gym." She asked if I was clean from STD's and then said she would be down to come over another day. We made out a bit before she left. I felt like such a dense idiot, but had to realize it was my first CA date. But lesson learned, always assume its a yes until its a definite no.

Nice first date from CA, it definitely feels a lot more exciting walking up to a girl calling her cute, getting her number, and then her coming out on a date. Just hits different from OLD in my opinion, I was more excited from my first number that went no where then I was going on a date, to eventually making out grabbing ass with a tinder date. Can't wait to hear how this one turns out, nice job, keep going making good progress on all fields.

 

[Bman]

colgate thanks for the resource. This is pretty much what I'm doing now.

Mimbe393939 well I forgot to mention in the reflection that I texted that girl the next day to see if she wanted to come over. She told me she only really goes for brown guys. So nothing became of that.

THIS WEEK'S REFLECTION

Another dry spell week. Only had one date planned, and another was playing by ear. Both did not pan out. A bit frustrating, but just motivation to keep working at it. To be honest, I had a couple nights where I was just burnt out from the process of OLD that I did not do much and instead just read a book and took a break.

I read some of Holden's log which really helped to see that the shit I've been dealing with isn't just me, but even the sexual elite on here have had to deal with it to

Apps: I don't really track numbers closely, but I do like to think about OLD as a funnel and how I can improve my skills and conversion from each step.

If the basic OLD funnel is Profile -> DM's -> Number & Texting -> 1st Date (2nd Date, etc) -> Sex -> Retention...

Then the top of funnel of Profile and DM's is going great. I have got them to the point that quality girls are messaging me on Tinder, Hinge, & Bumble. If I message 25-50 girls on Hinge I get about 4 numbers. If I boost on Tinder I will get about 1-2 numbers. And Bumble is starting to deliver matches, but have not got numbers yet. Of course I'll keep improving the profile, but happy to be getting these results.

Where my conversion starts to drop off the last few weeks is the texting to setup up the date, and then getting them to show for the first. I read over some of Holden's log (dude, thanks for such great detail) and picked up a few things to try like sending voice messages. I usually keep texting to logistics, but some of the girls are not able to meet till way later in the week, and I feel if you don't keep some kind of connection till the date it increases the chance of them flaking.

Dates: I only had one confirmed date this week and one that was up in the air. Both ended up not happening. One date was with a cougar/MILF who I honestly did not expect to flake. I was a bit fed up with being flaked on, so I sent her over "Hmm, wasn't expecting you to flake yesterday to be honest. Any feedback so I know why? Cheers." In return I got this.



So we are rescheduled for later this week. We will see how it goes. I'm also in conversation with a Nympho (she called herself that) and a cocktail waitress that really want to meet me but they both have really shitty schedules, so I'm not holding my breath on getting dates scheduled.

Cold Approach: Last Sunday I saw a really hot blonde gym bunny when I first entered. I put my stuff in the gym locker and walked straight up to her no hesitation. We chatted briefly about our workouts, I asked she had a BF, she said no, I asked if she wanted to grab a coffee or drink sometime and she said maybe some other time, she just got out of a long relationship. I said cool, enjoy your workout. Then I went to do my squats like it was no big deal. It was the first I've been outright rejected in my approaches and honestly, I didn't even care. It didn't phase me at all. I just went on with my workout. 0/1.

This is a huge difference from when I started because the first approach I ever did was in the gym and it took me 30 mins to actually go approach the girl, I was so fucking nervous, and had so much adrenaline afterwards. Now it's really no big deal.

The night I got flaked on I decided to hit the grocery store near my place for some approaches. There was not much volume there so I went 0/1.

But I did not have any dates or other plans for yesterday evening, so I went out to do some more approaches. I went 1/5. The girl I got a number with is a very cute blonde who I approached in a bookstore. We had some fun banter, and she said I looked like one of her favorite musicians, which she preceded to show me on her phone after I got her number. I'm going to see if she's available today to go out for a coffee. One of the no's I got said she had a boyfriend, but I was super good looking and if she didn't have a boyfriend she would have been all over that. Honestly just felt good to hear and gave some motivation to keep approaching.

I'm feeling pretty comfortable approaching now. Sometimes I might initially skip a girl from some AA, but then I usually nip that in the ass, turn around, and go approach her. I'm also approaching girls that are 7's, 8's, and the occasional 9 in my book. Which I definitely had a lot of anxiety about, even just a month ago.

There are still certain situations that get me like really, really attractive women (9's or 10's), when two attractive women are in a duo (I get caught up in which one I should approach), and if they are walking super quickly somewhere. But I know those will smooth out with more practice.

But overall, I'm more confident, my speech is more calm and fun, and I'm getting a few different outfits I can wear out approaching that get me compliments which is good feedback that I'm at least dressing well. It's too early to tell a real average, but so far its about 1 in 5 approaches gets a number. But of course, what matters is how those numbers pan out.

If I don't get many dates planned this week I will spend a couple more evenings out approaching. It definitely helps the mindset and frustration from OLD.

Mindset: I feel like right now I'm approaching the dip, the point where I got my newbie gains and now I'm going to have to put in the work to really start mastering this stuff. Which means I'll probably get slightly worse before I get better. The concept of the dip comes from marketer Seth Godin.

View attachment 1

It's sort of like when you first start working out. You go to the gym, learn new routines, and see your newbie gains come in. But after those first initial gains comes the real work of mastering the fundamentals and incremental improvement over time.

So for now, I'm just enjoying learning the skills, testing them out, and keep experimenting and refining until I find what works best for me. I only started doing all this about 2 months ago, and I have made good progress since then. Onwards and upwards.

 

[Bman]

THIS WEEK'S REFLECTION

Another dry week. No dates.

Also finalized the divorce paperwork this week with the courts. It was a bittersweet moment because both of us really enjoyed the relationship, we both respect each other, but both of us are happier now. Just wanted different things in life.

Now that I understand all the pieces I'm working with (putting time in on the apps, scheduling dates, going out CA, going on dates, ect), I plan on having a much better and consistent schedule with this stuff. My plan is to put a lot of time on the apps on the weekend and set the dates for nights during the week. For nights I still have free during the week I will either go out and CA or take some photos for the apps. I want to take a least one new set of photos each week so they get progressively better. Saturdays I will spend more time during the day CA. Sundays will be my rest days, besides messaging on the apps, because honestly as an introvert I need at least one fucking day a week to just chill and read a book.

Apps: I decided to buy a pack of Tinder boosts and run an experiment of boosting at different times throughout the week just to see if I could get different results that doing the standard boost on a Fri/Sat/Sun. Results were lackluster, besides boosting at noon one of the days.

But most of this week has been shit on the apps, which is confusing because just a couple weeks ago I was doing fine. Regardless, just points to needing to improve pictures which I'm going to dedicate time to each week for doing so.

Have gotten a few numbers today and will continue to put in time tomorrow on the apps. Hopefully get some dates setup and end this dry spell I'm having. I'm have a pretty high sex drive, so this dry spell has left me horny as fuck.

Cold Approach: I really did not feel like approaching this week. It's been over 100 degrees in ATX which really dampened motivation to go out. I tried our small indoor mall here but over 50% of the girls there are underage which makes it difficult to discern who to approach.

Today I went out with bonzo34 and went 0/7. One of the girls was the hottest girl I have approached so far. She gave me a huge smile and looked me up and down as we passed each other. I did not initially approach due to some AA but then thought she was way too hot to pass up, so I turned around and chased her across the crosswalk. Unfortunately she's from LA and only here till tomorrow. And I have not got slick enough yet to try and do insta-dates or make something happen that day. She was super excited to talk with me, really flattered, and said nobody ever comes and talks to her. I'm guessing she's one of those girls who knows she really hot and most guys are too scared to talk to her. Just felt good to have her checking ME out. Haha

Dates:

One date was with a cougar/MILF who I honestly did not expect to flake.

So rescheduled with this woman for today. Sent a confirmation text yesterday just so I didn't waste my time. She said she would be there. Showed up for the date today... didn't show up.

I waited 5 mins and sent a text telling her what I was wearing so she could spot me when she got there (as a nicer way of saying where the hell are you?). She texted me that her daughter had got in a car accident and was at the ER with her. Even sent me a picture as proof even though I did not ask for it. Told here I was sorry to hear that, best wishes for her daughter, and to text me when her life calms down.

This is the 3rd time I have been stood up on dates because the girl had a medical emergency. First was a girl who had an ulcer explode and she was in the ER for two days. Another got alcohol poisoning. And now this one. What some crazy freaking luck. Now when I have a girl flake, I tend to believe it has less to do with me and more to do with the crazy stuff we all have to deal with in life. Literally when I'm sitting there waiting for the date and she doesn't show my first thought is "maybe she got in an accident".

 

[Bman]

THIS WEEK'S REFLECTION

Another dry week. 1 date. 3 cancellations.

Apps: Last weekend I focused a good portion of time on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday messaging on Hinge and swiping/boosting on Tinder. Then throughout the week I only spend a little bit of time each day. As a result I got 10 numbers over the week.

A couple things that helped was messaging girls as quickly as possible after we match as Manganiello suggests in his guide. Then when I got the number, I tried to set the date as quickly as possible.

A few girls I matched with were either not able to go out in the upcoming days or have to wait till next week. In this case I followed Andy's advice to not message them again until the day before you want to set the new time and date.

A few notes on messaging. I pretty much stuck the BDSM script unless I had something witty to say or the conversation to a particular turn, such as them asking my kinks or what I'm expecting. It's working, so not going to fix what's not broken. I also revived conversations and got a couple numbers from the "If you're too shy or nervous, I understand" line. I usually wait 24-48hrs of not hearing from them before sending that. Works great for girls that are interested but forgot to respond for whatever reason. For example, one girl was out of cell reception for 2 days and forgot to respond when she got back.

I also got a new remote trigger for my camera that allows me to shoot continuously, so I did a shoot this week. None of the photos turned out better than what I am already using. But I will continue to do at least one new shoot each week.

Cold Approach: To be honest, I did not approach at all this week, even when my dates were cancelled like I said I was going to do. Was just feeling burnt out by being in the ATX heat. I was also getting dates set from the apps, so I did not have motivation to push through the heat anyways. Not a big deal.

Dates: This week I just had to laugh by the repeated cancellations because they were all for very different and legitimate reasons that have nothing to do with me.

Sunday: Date cancelled because her daughter got in a car accident and was in the ER with her.
Monday: Date cancelled because she got COVID
Wednesday: Date cancelled because she got a promotion that day and her colleagues made dinner reservations for her

All of them are still very keen on meeting up with me, so will get them rescheduled this week or next.

I also got 3 numbers of girls that are very into kink, very keen to meetup, but they were all busy this week due to various things going on. One was even leaving for Canada for 3 weeks. So I will try to get them scheduled this week or next also. Not holding my breath though since they are so far out.

Had a date yesterday with a 19 year old from Tinder. Met up with her at a coffee place near my place. She was very shy and decently cute. I invited her back to mine about 20 mins into the date. She was hesitant and said maybe the second date and she could come right over to my place. I told her we could go back to mine now and just go slow. She said she had just got out of a bad relationship and needed to build some trust. I didn't push any further. We chatted for another 30 mins and I told her I was going to head home. I walked her back to her car and made out with her a little bit. I sent her a text about an hour later saying is was fun seeing her and if she was free on Tuesday, but got no response. So guessing that's a lost cause. Ill send another text later this week, but not expecting much.

For next week I'm currently setup with dates on Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I also still need to text the leads from last week who said they could not meet till this week.

 

[Bman]

THIS WEEK'S REFLECTION

Monday: Lay #6 - https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=39378#p39378
Wednesday: Date Cancelled
Thursday: Had date, no lay, won't be a 2nd date
Saturday: Lay #7 - https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=39647#p39647

Took new set of shirtless pictures after finishing my cut this week.

Important lessons learned this week:

• Don't waste your time texting back and forth before the date. Some girls won't like that, others will be fine to wait. For the ones that don't like it, that's fine. There will be other girls.

• Cutting is great, but only do it for so long. Afterwards, eat to fuel your body especially if I'm working long days, working out a lot, and having multiple dates in a week.

• Listen to the signals of your body. If your body is telling you are tired and weak at the moment, its OK to not keep progressing the date to sex, or progress it to intercourse. Respect your body. If for whatever reason you can't see this girl again, there will be other girls.

• If you're having ED during sex, it's ok to stop and just be real with the girl. You're still taking the lead. And as embarrassing as it may be, it will be even more embarrassing to try to keep going but its clearly not going to happen.

• It literally pays to tell the truth. In this scenario, it was 2.5k to tell the truth.

Apps

The work I put in last week paid off for getting dates setup this week. I will continue using the cycle of messaging a lot on the weekends, getting dates set for the week, and mildly using the apps during the week. A couple of the old numbers I got from two weeks ago who could not schedule in the same week I got the number did not respond this week. Just showing the longer you delay scheduling a date, the less likely it will happen.

Took a new shirtless picture after finishing my summer cut. More on that below.

In the previous few weeks I have had girls who want to message back and forth after setting the date to "get to know me better". What happens with these girls is if I engage in back and forth texting, I usually talk myself right out of a date. Which may be good because I didn't waste time going on a date, but I wasted the time of texting.

So I decided not to do that at all this week. One girl didn't like it and cancelled our date for Wednesday. Another is totally cool on waiting. In the end, I would rather not chat with them until on the date. Texts of these girls below:

Girl one who doesn't like it (and wanted me to send her a pic so she knew I was real):
View attachment 2

Girl who is willing to wait:
View attachment 3


Dates

Monday: Lay #6 - https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=39378#p39378
Wednesday: Date Cancelled
Thursday: Had date, no lay, won't be a 2nd date
Saturday: Lay #7 - https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=39647#p39647

You can read the lay reports for how Monday's and Saturday's dates went. I enjoyed them and they escalated pretty nicely.

Lay #6 is a ONS. After trying to set another time to come over she said she's not in a good place to seeing see people right now.

Thursday's date was ok. She was very interested and we even discussed a bit of our kinks beforehand. When we got on the date we chatted about work, hobbies, travel, typical run of the mill things. We did not really have anything common, but I thought she was still pretty cute and invited her back to my place about 45 mins into the date. She blushed really hard and said she doesn't really do that with guys on the first date. She then kept apologizing for blushing so much and I could tell she was still thinking about it. I asked what her hesitation was. She said it was not me but just the idea of it. I told her that was fine and did not push any further. We talked for about 5 more minutes and I walked her back to her car. She said "it was really great to meet you and yeah..." which I took for she was not interested. So I did not even try to kiss her and just sent her on her way.

Next week:
Monday: Date with fit 23 year old latina
Thursday: Lay #7 - Architect Girl confirmed to come over again

Health

I have been doing a cut cycle the last 6-8 weeks to lower my body fat percentage, reveal my abs some more, and take a better picture for the apps. I could start to tell my energy was getting a little lower, my mood a little more low, sleep starting to get effected, and my lifts not as solid as usual. All telltale signs to stop the cut.

It also contributed to some low energy during my lays. I know this because when I did a short bulk cycle before the cut, I was eating about 500 cals more each day and my erections were rock hard and my libido was very high. That is much more of a favorable state to be in. So I took some pictures for tinder and starting to slowly bring my calories back to maintainece, then to a slight surplus again.

Here is the new shirtless photo:



I'm pretty happy with how my physique has progressed since my first major weight loss 4 years ago. In 2015-17 I was probably around 200lbs and definitely above 15% BF. I did my first major cut starting in 2018 when I was around 180lbs. I cut all the way down to 145lbs and about 8% BF. This most recent cut clocked in at 162 and roughly 8-9% BF. You can see in the pictures below that the difference between 2019 to now is not drastic (besides my beard filling out!) but the noteworthy part is I packed on about 15lbs lean muscle, so now I can be 162lbs and not have to go all the way to 145!

Here is that journey:
View attachment 1


I'm also much more solid in my major lifts in form. Numbers:
Squat: 395lbs
Bench: 265lbs
Deadlift: 325 lbs

Startup

Most of my log here is focused on dating, but I am also working on other important goals in my life. I wanted to share a win and first sale milestone for my startup. Plus a lesson learned in honesty.

Startup: I have had 3 sales calls to get sponsorships so far and they have all turned out well. One of them came back this week and would like to move forward with the proposal. As long as things pan out, it will be the first sale in the startup! And I only need one of these people to say yes, so if it falls through I can just move on to the next prospect.

So fun story on this that happened this week. The first sponsor, lets call him Sponsor 1, I reached out to was interested. We just needed to setup another call to iron out the details. I reached out to a couple times but heard no word back. So I moved on to the next prospect.

Couple sales calls later, I have another interested sponsor, lets call him Sponsor 2. I get all the details ready and Sponsor 2 is almost closed on. Then Sponsor 1 finally schedules a call with me again from the old Calendly link I had sent him...

Now I told each of these guys that this with an exclusive sponsorship, meaning there would be only one sponsor with no competition (which means they would pay a higher price.) So at this point I had to make a decision. Do I end the deal with Sponsor 2, who I was actually more in line with philosophically, and tell him that I had this other deal going with Sponsor 1 before him? Or go to Sponsor 1 and tell him I'm working with Sponsor 2 now?

What did I do? I told the truth to both.

What happened? I turned a 4k deal into a 6.5K deal.

I got on the call with Sponsor 1, told him I had not heard from him and went looking for another sponsor. Turns out Sponsor 1 & Sponsor 2 have been in chats with one another about working on other projects together. So Sponsor 1 asked if they could cosponsor together, and said he would be happy to pay, not the full quoted price, but more than half for each company. We both spoke with Sponsor 2 and everyone is happy with deal.

Should have contract signed and money in the bank account early next week.

Question

In few of the previous weeks I had first dates with girls, asked them to come to my place but it was a no, made out with them at the end of the date, but it never turned into a second date.

I'm curious what I may be able to improve here. Obviously it's going to be hard for you to say exactly what without me going into deep detail about a specific date but some thoughts are:

• Maybe my conversations are too platonic?

• Should I try to set a second date at the end of the first one while she is still there with me?

• Should I spend more time making out/ escalating physically at the end of the date?

Just curious what your guys experiences are.

 

[Manganiello]

Absolutely solid week man.

I packed on about 15lbs lean muscle, so now I can be 162lbs and not have to go all the way to 145!

Great work.

If you said it, I may have missed it. What's your height?

 

[Bman]

Absolutely solid week man.

I packed on about 15lbs lean muscle, so now I can be 162lbs and not have to go all the way to 145!

Great work.

If you said it, I may have missed it. What's your height?

Thanks man! And I'm roughly 5' 10"

 

[Kurvam]

Question

In few of the previous weeks I had first dates with girls, asked them to come to my place but it was a no, made out with them at the end of the date, but it never turned into a second date.

I'm curious what I may be able to improve here. Obviously it's going to be hard for you to say exactly what without me going into deep detail about a specific date but some thoughts are:

• Maybe my conversations are too platonic?

• Should I try to set a second date at the end of the first one while she is still there with me?

• Should I spend more time making out/ escalating physically at the end of the date?

Just curious what your guys experiences are.

This used to happen to me quite often back in the day, id make out with a girl sometimes more then they'd not meet me again. I changed my strategy to not making out or anything in public. I'd only physically escalate once at my place where sex could actually take place. Even before i started screening harder it definitely improved my date to lay ratio.

I think escalating more in public would not help at all as it would create more pressure/expectation that sex must happen on the next date.

 

[AskTheDom]

I think escalating more in public would not help at all as it would create more pressure/expectation that sex must happen on the next date.

Exactly - it's called the "non return point" and in public you remove the "plausible deniability"

So make outs are only for home, maximum a kiss

 

[Bman]

I think escalating more in public would not help at all as it would create more pressure/expectation that sex must happen on the next date.

Exactly - it's called the "non return point" and in public you remove the "plausible deniability"

So make outs are only for home, maximum a kiss

Noted. Thanks gentlemen.

 

[kAldown]

Question

In few of the previous weeks I had first dates with girls, asked them to come to my place but it was a no, made out with them at the end of the date, but it never turned into a second date.

I'm curious what I may be able to improve here. Obviously it's going to be hard for you to say exactly what without me going into deep detail about a specific date but some thoughts are:
- Maybe my conversations are too platonic?
- Should I try to set a second date at the end of the first one while she is still there with me?
- Should I spend more time making out/ escalating physically at the end of the date?
Just curious what your guys experiences are.

I'm asking about the next plans to meet somewhere in the middle of a date, when I feel we are in a good vibe. Then after making out - I re-ask, "so we agreed to see X, right?". Then prior the day I jokingly jump into remind, but not to look needy. Still doesn't work sometimes. Yet I'm not afraid of looking needy. Like last time we agreed to meet on Saturday. She wrote that she changed plans and will call me later the day. No call from her. I did call - no answer. Then I wrote to her "I did something wrong? You can tell me and we can discuss". Then at Monday she replied "everything is okay, I was just too tired". I asked to meet for a walk. She told she is busy, yet she asked to move to Tueseday (good score). Moved. Maked out. In the middle I again asked about nex time, she replied next week. I will wait.

All the girls I've had sex with were within one hour of cocktails. But the difference - I knew I will fuck them 146%. It was not discussable. All the other girls I have a mood like "I should convince her" and it doesn't work, even though I kissed them, hug, touched their legs, sniffed their hairs - nothing. I don not understand how that works.

I actually go into frame straight away. Took them by the hand. Lead. Sniff if they smell good. Told them I like their dress and wantto see what's under. Then blush, then "don't blush, I mean it". Etc. What I'm trying to say - there is no "time" for a escalation. Just do it if you want. If you don't - it won't work.

That's what I've learned, yet it could be misunderstainding such as I have really narrow experience with the same "type" of girls.

 

[Bman]

THIS WEEK'S REFLECTION

Monday: Date; I said no to sex because she had herpes
Thursday: Supposed to have Architect Girl over; ghosted
Friday: Date Cancelled

Apps

Nothing groundbreaking this week on the apps. Staying consistent with my routine with it. Took a set of photos on Wednesday. Would love feedback on which of these six are worth fully editing for the apps. See below.

Dates

Monday's date was fun. Decided to do a walking date down on the boardwalk by the river near my place. She was a fit yoga girl and wore a yoga pants and bra for the date. Had a good conversation and invited her back to my place. I put on some music and we chatted a little bit before she said she couldn't have sex that night. I asked why and she told me she recently got herpes a few months ago. I told her thanks for being honest, and despite the risk being low, I still did not want to risk it since I sleep with other girls. She was really understanding and I walked her down to her car. It's a shame because she had some very plump lips and was a great kisser. I need to start teaching some of these other girls how I like to be kissed because some are not great.

Thursday I was supposed to have Architect Girl over. She was very receptive previously in the week. I texted her Thursday morning and got nothing back all day. I was a little surprised by this one because she texted after the first lay saying she left her Ray Ban sunglasses over at my place and asked if I could hold on to them till Thursday. I jokingly told her I might sell them on Craigslist, but of course I would hold on to them till then. So besides her being really receptive previously, I also thought she would want her sunglasses. I'll text her early next week the "didn't expect you to ghost" line and see if I get a response.

Friday's date cancelled but that's what I expected with this one. Matched on Hinge and she was a solid 9. But she would not give out her number because "there is too many creeps," so I set the date in Hinge. Had to set the date out a few days, so guessing she just got uninterested and unmatched me because when I went to checkin Thursday she was no longer there. No biggie.

Cold Approach

Went out yesterday to the Domain in ATX. Went 0/5 because all of them had boyfriends. But I enjoyed the session. I'm getting much more confident, speaking much slower, and don't have as many nerves. 4 out of the 5 women I did back to back in the span of 10 minutes. One of them I held her hand for a solid 15 seconds while I started the conversation and she told me I had such a deep voice.

Although I'm currently not getting as many dates for CA as I do the apps, it's still a skill I'm enjoying building. I also usually feel pretty good after doing a session of CA. It's nice to get compliments and have little conversations with really attractive women. I will slowly keep working at it as each time I go out I get a little more confident and a little smoother.

Question

Would love feedback on the best of the lot for these six photos. Please keep in mind I have not edited them yet.

View attachment 5View attachment 4View attachment 3View attachment 2View attachment 1

 

[AskTheDom]

THIS WEEK'S REFLECTION

Monday: Date; I said no to sex because she had herpes
Thursday: Supposed to have Architect Girl over; ghosted
Friday: Date Cancelled

Apps

Nothing groundbreaking this week on the apps. Staying consistent with my routine with it. Took a set of photos on Wednesday. Would love feedback on which of these six are worth fully editing for the apps. See below.

Dates

Monday's date was fun. Decided to do a walking date down on the boardwalk by the river near my place. She was a fit yoga girl and wore a yoga pants and bra for the date. Had a good conversation and invited her back to my place. I put on some music and we chatted a little bit before she said she couldn't have sex that night. I asked why and she told me she recently got herpes a few months ago. I told her thanks for being honest, and despite the risk being low, I still did not want to risk it since I sleep with other girls. She was really understanding and I walked her down to her car. It's a shame because she had some very plump lips and was a great kisser. I need to start teaching some of these other girls how I like to be kissed because some are not great.

Thursday I was supposed to have Architect Girl over. She was very receptive previously in the week. I texted her Thursday morning and got nothing back all day. I was a little surprised by this one because she texted after the first lay saying she left her Ray Ban sunglasses over at my place and asked if I could hold on to them till Thursday. I jokingly told her I might sell them on Craigslist, but of course I would hold on to them till then. So besides her being really receptive previously, I also thought she would want her sunglasses. I'll text her early next week the "didn't expect you to ghost" line and see if I get a response.

Friday's date cancelled but that's what I expected with this one. Matched on Hinge and she was a solid 9. But she would not give out her number because "there is too many creeps," so I set the date in Hinge. Had to set the date out a few days, so guessing she just got uninterested and unmatched me because when I went to checkin Thursday she was no longer there. No biggie.

Cold Approach

Went out yesterday to the Domain in ATX. Went 0/5 because all of them had boyfriends. But I enjoyed the session. I'm getting much more confident, speaking much slower, and don't have as many nerves. 4 out of the 5 women I did back to back in the span of 10 minutes. One of them I held her hand for a solid 15 seconds while I started the conversation and she told me I had such a deep voice.

Although I'm currently not getting as many dates for CA as I do the apps, it's still a skill I'm enjoying building. I also usually feel pretty good after doing a session of CA. It's nice to get compliments and have little conversations with really attractive women. I will slowly keep working at it as each time I go out I get a little more confident and a little smoother.

Question

Would love feedback on the best of the lot for these six photos. Please keep in mind I have not edited them yet.

Feedback 1.jpgFeedback 2.jpgFeedback 3.jpgFeedback 4.jpgFeedback 5.jpgFeedback 6.jpg

So i'm going to say for starters, +1 for the avenged sevenfold t shirt.

Now couple of things more practical:
Although I'm currently not getting as many dates for CA as I do the apps. : It's normal - if you have a solid SMV, the apps are the fastest way to get dates because in DG you deal with a lot of randomness that is filtered out by the apps ( but in return it gives you the best people) with time and dedication you will get much more satisfaction out of dg, that's a promise.

- But she would not give out her number because "there is too many creeps," - classic sign of low interest, when that happens "oh so you'd rather give me instagram for you to stalk me that easy ?"

- Photos 1 & 3: Man you look badass (the beard power is over 9000!!!!)

 

[Bman]

Thanks for the feedback MFbag and AskTheDom. Appreciate the beard love. Haha

with time and dedication you will get much more satisfaction out of dg, that's a promise

I definitely feel that. I'd like to lock-in a couple FWB's and then focus more on CA.

This week’s reflection

When I started this log I did not really care about ratios or numbers for matches, numbers, ect. But after not getting laid this week, I realized I have no objective data about how I am progressing with this. Reading Manganiello's log, I noticed I am just not doing enough volume and getting flaked on a ton is normal.

I’m very grateful for the veterans on this forum who have logged in detail because I can at least get a sense of how I am doing and where I need to improve. Thanks to Manganiello and Holden, your logs have been helpful.

So I plan on logging my stats for a while, just to see how they are improving over time and get some objective feedback on ratios.

Stats for last 3 months till now:

• 13 Dates from apps

• 2 Lays from Hinge (1 turned in FWB for about a month)

• 2 Lays from Tinder

• 1 boost a week on Tinder

• 4/30 for Cold Approach (After doing the AA program till day 14)

• 1 Date from Cold Approach (No Lay)

I plan on tracking how many matches on Tinder, messages on Hinge, and numbers from those as well, but don’t have any idea what that has been for last 3 months.

Current Pictures

View attachment 2


Summary

Monday: Date from Hinge; No lay – bit of a catfish
Wednesday: Date canceled; she got in a car accident
Thursday: Flaked
Friday: Flaked after reschedule from Wednesday

Lessons Learned this week:

• Texting: Thanks to Manga for this resource on texting - http://web.archive.org/web/20200809180203/http://authorcloud.co/MrVs-Guide-To-Texting-Girls-dq16ldatn

• Scheduling: In Manga’s log he was scheduling multiple girls on the same day. I noticed I will get a huge influx of numbers and then get screwed when I have to schedule them more than 2 days out. Or I get numbers during the week, already have a date scheduled, so I schedule the new number farther out, but then my original date flakes/cancels and I waste a night and increase my chances of the new number also flaking later. So my plan is to schedule more than one girl in the same day, and if a new number comes in that is a hotter ones than I already have scheduled, I will reschedule the other.

Apps

Did two shoots this week for a couple new photos to keep improving the profile. The guitar one is my obligatory smiling “I’m not a serial killer” photo. Still need to get social photo and will probably try another shoot with my dog.

View attachment 1


Dates

Monday: Matched with this girl on Hinge, invited her to the bar next to my place. She looked petite in photos but had gained some weight over the last couple years and those photos we old. So she was not as attractive. We chatted for about an hour, but I really should have ended it earlier. Invited her to mine, but was not bummed when she said no. Didn’t push as I was not that into her.

Wednesday: This is getting to be joke. 4th girl I have had a date setup with that had a medical emergency or car accident. I tend to believe them as they usually send me pictures or an elaborate description of what happened. Can’t help but laugh at how many times this has occurred. We rescheduled for Friday.

Thursday: Sent confirmation text on Wednesday night, no response.
Friday: Sent me a text she was on her period and asked if we should reschedule. We already rescheduled once so I pushed to still have it that day. Did not get a response and she flaked anyways.

Feels

Little frustrated which is why I wanted to look at some objective data about how I’m doing. Sucks sinking time and effort into getting a number or going on a date and not having it turn into anything. I know that’s part of the game though. I know some of the places I can improve and will focus on doing that.

College is back in session next week here in ATX. So after running some errands in the morning, I’m going to go out and some cold approach. Then focus on putting some more volume into the apps.

 

[MakingAComeback]

KEEP WORKING CHAMP

MAC

 

[Bman]

This week’s reflection

Long post ahead. If you read the whole thing, thanks for taking the time. If not, would still like feedback on the questions at the bottom.

Lessons Learned this week:

• Text game: Sucks. Working on it.

• Deeper stuff: Old beliefs of “I’m not good enough” coming in, putting me on the offensive of always qualifying, rather than letting them qualify sometimes. Also working on it.

Weekly Stats:

Saturday

• Hinge: 110 DMs, 2 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Tinder: 1 Boost, 8 Likes, 5 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Bumble: 0 Matches

• CA: 0/1

Sunday

• Hinge: 150 DMs, 9 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Tinder: 2 Boosts, 11 Likes, 1 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Bumble: 0 Matches

• CA: 0/1

Monday

• Hinge: 91 DMs, 7 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Tinder: 0 Boosts, 1 Likes, 2 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Bumble: 2 Matches

• CA: 0/3

Tuesday

• Hinge: 45 DMs, 2 Matches, 1 Numbers, 1 Date Scheduled

• Tinder: 1 Boosts, 9 Likes, 2 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Bumble: 0 Matches

• CA: 0/1

Wednesday

• Date: 45 mins, no pull because she had work

• Hinge: 104 DMs, 1 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Tinder: 0 Boosts, 0 Likes, 1 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Bumble: 0 Matches

• CA: 0

Thursday

• Hinge: 50 DMs, 8 Matches, 1 Numbers

• Tinder: 0 Boosts, 0 Likes, 1 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Bumble: 0 Matches

• CA: 0

Friday

• Hinge: 57 DMs, 7 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Tinder: 1 Boosts, 4 Likes, 1 Matches, 0 Numbers

• Bumble: 0 Matches

• CA: 0

Apps

Tinder: most of the likes I am getting from the boosts are very low quality and girls I’m really not attracted to. It also does not really seem to matter when I boost because despite the time I get about 7 each time. The ROI for boosting on there seems pretty low.

Hinge: I have much better success. I message all the girls “Hey you’re sexy. Im looking for something very specific on here.” Obviously that intrigues many girls to find out what. The quality of girls are much higher, some even being very high. Of course here I just have to spend the time to message a bunch of girls. I usually message about 50 on the bus ride to and from the gym, then hit more in the evening

Looking over the stats this week it’s clear that things start to break down when texting. I mostly run Andy’s BDSM lines. Obviously those lines screen harder so I expect to not get as many numbers. However, I did not realize till this week that I was skipping a few of the intermediary texts he use in the Tinder guide because I was just going off the ones on his profile page on the website which they are even more straight to the point. I think just having those few extra texts will build a little more comfort and excitement of actually meeting with me.

I also tried out some of Mimbe393939 's lines this week, but I’m not at par with his text game so they did not work as well for me. I’m not great yet at push/pull, teasing, being playful or any the other things. And I don’t enjoy texting back and forth anyways. Which is why I just stick with Andy’s lines with as few steps as possible.

Dates

Wednesday: Date from Hinge. She was actually cuter in person than her photos on Hinge. Went to the coffee bar down from my place and she actually bought my tea for me which was a nice gesture. Chatted about regular topics. She asked if I was up to anything later, so I took that as an opening to invite her back to mine. She said she had to go to work right after the date, but that she really wanted to. We talked a little about sex. I asked what her schedule was like and she said she worked all weekend but would know on Sunday for next week. So we made plan to check in then. Walked her back to her car and gave her a brief kiss. I texted the next day but did not receive a response. Based on my 2nd date conversion in the past, I’m not holding my breath it will happen.

I actually think I should have pulled this girl earlier, like 15-20 minutes into the date. The last few dates we have been having decent conversations so I forget to pull earlier. But running Andy’s BDSM lines it’s pretty damn clear what we are here to do. When I draw the conversation on for longer than 30 minutes, I’m sending a signal that I’m ok with getting to know each other. Definitely something I will be fixing from here on out.

Cold Approach

This week I mostly did approaches while I was out running other errands, hence only doing 1-3 each of the days. However I could of got more because I definitely skipped some girls I could have approached. The ones I did approach though were the hottest I had seen that day. My vibe on these approaches was not very good though. Because I had been tracking stats all week for the apps and seeing my conversions really break at the texting, I had been in my head all week about “what to say”. This carried over into my approaches, so every time I saw a girl that was the first thought going through my head. All the approaches ended with them telling me they had boyfriends or were engaged.

I really liked twonightstander 's idea of using Krauser’s Daygame Mastery to structure approaches, focusing on one portion of the approach each week to master. What I enjoyed about the AA program was there was a ladder of skills you were mastering. I know ultimately the goal is to get laid, but having these intermediary goals to work on makes approaching more fun. And anything that helps to get me out more is beneficiary.

So I’ll start with my vibe before going into the approach, specifically reminding myself:

• I’m a high value man: I’m still being surprised by how nice women are when I approach them and them complimenting me. It stems from valuing myself (more on that below).

• This woman wants to have sex, and I want to have sex with her: I forget that women want sex just as much as we do and don’t portray my own sexual interest enough in interactions.

Then after the approach, regardless of outcome, reminding myself:

• How many other guys actually have the courage to approach women? Further reinforcing the high value man.

The Deeper Stuff

I have two recurring insecurities or thoughts in my life:

• I’m not good enough

• I don’t mean anything

They are old programming from my childhood. As a child I equated my value as human to being good enough to receive others love. I thought my dad divorced my mom and left us because I was not good enough. Because my mom pushed me so hard to get good grades and to be a good kid, I thought I had to perform to get her love. Having plenty of other family or close connects die, move away, or disconnect for whatever reason, those became reinforced.

I’ve done therapy. I’ve spent time talking with others about it. I’ve worked on them and come a long way with them. But like any childhood insecurity, they still pop up sometimes.

I know they are not true, not in the form of love that I was confusing as a child. See the Greeks had several words for love, all referring to a different type of love. One form of love is Agape, and universal love for humanity. The basic premise is your human, I’m human, and because recognize the humanity of one another we can love one another. As a child I confused my worth as human being with my ability to receive love. Agape is unconditional, you are good enough because you are human.

Every other type of love is conditional. Philia, love of a close friend, requires that both people do things to make the friendship worth having. Even Storge, familial love, requires some value you are investing in your family for them to share their love with you. If you’re being a piece of shit, good chance your family, including your parents, disown you. The love we are concerned with on these forums are Eros, erotic love, which also is conditional. Each partner is offering their value as a sexual partner.

So how does this actually play out in my game?

Instead of recognizing what value I have to offer in this sexual partnership, like:

• Objectively, probably a 7/10 in looks. Obviously depending on the girl that could also be a 6 or could be an 8. No chad, but above average, masculine looking and in shape.

• Open minded and non-judgmental about sexual kinks. I give them a chance to explore those.

• Intelligent

• Good at rapport and deeper conversations.

• Have my own life and shit together: job, startup, hobbies, friend groups, ect.

And the places where my offer is weak, like:

• Looks for some girls

• Playful, flirty, fun, lightheartedness

• Don’t drink or take drugs

• Early to bed

I still confuse my worth as a human with the offer I am making to the women. This immediately puts me in the “I’m not good enough” pattern and I totally forget the value I do have to offer. So I stop seeing myself as a high value man. As I result, I’m always pushing, always qualifying myself to her. Rather then it being an even dance, push and pull, and let her qualify herself to me sometimes.

Now part of the offer in a causal relationship is the partner being fun, exciting, playful, not serious. I’m a pretty serious person. Returning to the childhood programming, when your mother turns to you as a boy and says you’re the “man of the house” now, you grow up and become serious pretty quickly. When you’re poor, not taking life seriously was a matter of survival. On the other front, watching my dad do lots of drugs, spending money carelessly, and seeing the results of his life I equated that to not taking life seriously. As a result, I’m not very playful in my dates or in cold approach. One of the reasons I was attracted to Andy’s content is because it did not feel as gimmicky as PUA routines. I hate gimmicky. It felt more direct, which I appreciated. However, I recognize I’m missing that lightheartedness, humor, and play in the situation.

Lastly, I recognize I don’t put out much of a sexual vibe on dates or in cold approach. I stay pretty squarely in the platonic realm. I’m still concerned about qualifying myself to her and what her reaction will be.

I only write these things because I can see how they contribute to my results this week in cold approach, texting, and dates.

So what am I going to do about it?

• Go talk to more girls: really the only way to get better at these things is through experience.

• Use CBT to reframe “I’m not good enough”: First, I will acknowledge I’m human, they’re human, we are good enough being human. Second, recognize this is separate than the offer we are making each other. Finally, I will remind myself of the value I am offering. It’s just simple sales. Be confident in your product.

• Texting: Practice. Plain and simple. I won’t afraid of burning leads while practicing because I know there will be plenty more leads. Krauser has some good advice here, so I will do my best to practice that.

Questions

• Everyone’s mileage varies and ultimately the stats don’t matter. But, I would like to know what the delta is between where I am now and where I could be for these. So, are these average, below, above?

• I know I am not the only one who has struggled with “I’m not good enough” and valuing yourself in game. What has been your strategies for overcoming that as a beginner?

 

[AskTheDom]

Well since you bought the book, I tell you as i've been reading material for the last decade, it's probably the opus magnum and you don't need anything else. It's a bit complicated and much likely you will have to go through it many times, but like K wrote "it's all in here, where you get stuck it has a solution in the right chapter" (or something like that)

>For everything else, I don't have much more to comment as your plan seems pretty solid to work with. With time and taking action, your old set of beliefs will dissolver to leave space to a new one

 

[Holden]

The last few dates we have been having decent conversations so I forget to pull earlier.

You can always talk after you fuck.. but you can't always fuck after you talk.

You have a polarizing look and you have a sexualized profile on top of that. You can't afford to not act like a hypersexualized rockstar when you meet girls. It's wildly incongruent. The date at the bar is there to show her you're not a serial killer. Once that is made clear (after 10-15 minutes) you invite them to your place.

You probably need to work on the vibe you're projecting too. Like you say it's probably too platonic.

A funny thing I read in your post is you hammer home being human all the time. "We're both humans, that's enough."

Try looking at it this way: "I'm a MAN, she's a WOMAN, that's enough." Reframe it like this and embrace the polarity.

There exists a natural attraction between men and women and all you have to do is not fuck it up. In practice that means shutting up and holding eye contact.

Find a PDF of "60 Years of Challenge" it's an old PUA book that helped me out a lot and did the most for me probably. OG stuff.