How can I seal the deal? (6th date)

[MostlyAloof]

A few days ago I made a post asking for advice about going on my 5th date. She's the first girl to ever go on multiple dates with me. I've never been laid but I feel extremely close to sealing the deal.

I've made it a point to progress further each time we go out, last night being the best date so far.

1st date: Coffee/hug
2nd date: Arcade/kiss
3rd date: Dinner/more kissing + non-sexual touching.
4th date: Movie/non-sexual touch & more kissing.

The 3rd & 4th date were somewhat similar in progress because I am clueless & had to learn how to make out first. Knowing how to kiss made a huge difference in my ability to take things further.

Then there was last night, the 5th date.
I suggested that we sit in the backseat of her car after getting ice cream, which she agreed to.

Within 5 mins I began massaging her neck/kissing it + her.
I grabbed her butt and boobs, which progressed into me sucking on her nipples and forcefully rubbing her pussy through her pants. She liked it for sure.

I keep playing things by feeling out the situation.
She was using her body in ways to stop me from touching her sexually at times, which is part of the reason why I didn't go even further than I did.

Now it's clear what my intentions are, if she had any doubts.

But what can I say to initiate a 6th date which leads to sex?
Neither of have a home which is free of other people, so how should I set this next date up?

Hotels/car/forest are what come to mind for sex places, but I don't know what to to do for the actual date.

What do I say to her at this point?
We've done everything besides sex.

What do I say to end up in a hotel/forest with her?

 

[Squilliam]

Neither of have a home which is free of other people, so how should I set this next date up?

Okay, this is something that needs to change ASAP if you want to get laid regularly.

Even if you live with your parents, is there any way you can get your own room? Or is the problem that they are too nosy? You do not need to live alone to get laid, I live with 2 housemates but I have my own bedroom and I can bring girls over whenever I want.

As you said, hotel or a car could work. I wouldn't suggest in public given the circumstances. You are still a virgin. Trust me when I say this, you will want to be comfortable when you are having sex for the first time. Having sex in a forest where you will have anxiety about being arrested or seen by other people is not really good for your first time. Granted I'm a very neurotic person so if you're not as anxious perhaps it wouldn't be as big of a deal.

However, you will have enough anxiety from the other aspects of losing your virginity. I would suggest a hotel.

Also, is there any reason you waited so long to try to have sex? No judgement if that's what you prefer, but I think some girls lose interest if you don't try to have sex with them in a certain time period. I'll let someone more experienced clarify this. I guess what I'm asking is, did you wait because you wanted to or because logistics prevented you from going to the next level?

I'd say at this point you should arrange a date that will lead directly to sex, book a hotel room and meet her there, or alternatively meet somewhere near the hotel and then hang out in public very briefly before asking if she wants to go to the hotel/car.

 

[MostlyAloof]

Neither of have a home which is free of other people, so how should I set this next date up?

Okay, this is something that needs to change ASAP if you want to get laid regularly.

Even if you live with your parents, is there any way you can get your own room? Or is the problem that they are too nosy? You do not need to live alone to get laid, I live with 2 housemates but I have my own bedroom and I can bring girls over whenever I want.

As you said, hotel or a car could work. I wouldn't suggest in public given the circumstances. You are still a virgin. Trust me when I say this, you will want to be comfortable when you are having sex for the first time. Having sex in a forest where you will have anxiety about being arrested or seen by other people is not really good for your first time. Granted I'm a very neurotic person so if you're not as anxious perhaps it wouldn't be as big of a deal.

However, you will have enough anxiety from the other aspects of losing your virginity. I would suggest a hotel.

Also, is there any reason you waited so long to try to have sex? No judgement if that's what you prefer, but I think some girls lose interest if you don't try to have sex with them in a certain time period. I'll let someone more experienced clarify this. I guess what I'm asking is, did you wait because you wanted to or because logistics prevented you from going to the next level?

I'd say at this point you should arrange a date that will lead directly to sex, book a hotel room and meet her there, or alternatively meet somewhere near the hotel and then hang out in public very briefly before asking if she wants to go to the hotel/car.

Neither of have a home which is free of other people, so how should I set this next date up?

Okay, this is something that needs to change ASAP if you want to get laid regularly.

Even if you live with your parents, is there any way you can get your own room? Or is the problem that they are too nosy? You do not need to live alone to get laid, I live with 2 housemates but I have my own bedroom and I can bring girls over whenever I want.

As you said, hotel or a car could work. I wouldn't suggest in public given the circumstances. You are still a virgin. Trust me when I say this, you will want to be comfortable when you are having sex for the first time. Having sex in a forest where you will have anxiety about being arrested or seen by other people is not really good for your first time. Granted I'm a very neurotic person so if you're not as anxious perhaps it wouldn't be as big of a deal.

However, you will have enough anxiety from the other aspects of losing your virginity. I would suggest a hotel.

Also, is there any reason you waited so long to try to have sex? No judgement if that's what you prefer, but I think some girls lose interest if you don't try to have sex with them in a certain time period. I'll let someone more experienced clarify this. I guess what I'm asking is, did you wait because you wanted to or because logistics prevented you from going to the next level?

I'd say at this point you should arrange a date that will lead directly to sex, book a hotel room and meet her there, or alternatively meet somewhere near the hotel and then hang out in public very briefly before asking if she wants to go to the hotel/car.

Hey man thanks for reaching out,
I ended up sending a text to her suggesting drinks at a nice hotel but she saw through me.

She told me she's not ready for that.

I didn't respond back soon enough, so after awhile she sent a follow up text. When I finally read them both, that's when I read that she's not ready yet

But her second message confirmed that she still wants to see me again (tomorrow).
Her 2nd message tells me that she wanted to calm me down in case I was upset about her first text. I was simply busy but enough time passed that it made her anxious I think.

I'm okay with this so far, I have no other girls I'm dating and my search parameters are pretty limited where I live. I went through 3 dating apps before meeting her, we seem compatible in lots of ways.

I actually feel strongly about her, I haven't actively pursued other girls on apps since meeting her.
I'm getting really attached to her, and she seems to feel the same. I wouldn't ruin this for anything, if I can help it.

To answer your question, I've never taken it all the way to sex mostly because I'm legit new to all of this.
I was fairly unattractive most of my life but now people tell me I'm hot.
I've never built confidence before. Self respect. Stuff like that.

I'm being roughly guided by Chris's guide on GLL, though the site looks down for now.

I. Need. Pussy.

I know most guys would say that, but for my sanity and health, I need it.

I've established sexual contact for the first time in my life with good results.

What should I do when I meet her tomorrow for dinner/drinks at a very basic restaurant?
I feel like I should keep sex vibes tonned down to not seem like a pig this time, but all I want to do is keep pushing towards sex. I've done far more than I ever dreamed I could with a girl I care about.

I'm actively saving up to move to a large city and I'm half way there. In the meantime I could get my relative to leave for awhile if needed, but a hotel would be my top pick for sex.


One more cog in the wheel....
I'm 6 years sober from alcohol, and yet here I have a sudden date planned with a girl I like for drinks. Chris's guide said to mention I drink, so now she kinda expects it.

My life is unbelievable

But I'll literally do anything at this point

 

[Squilliam]

I. Need. Pussy.

I know most guys would say that, but for my sanity and health, I need it.

I've established sexual contact for the first time in my life with good results.
If I ruin this somehow, it'll destroy me

What should I do when I meet her tomorrow for dinner/drinks at a very basic restaurant?
I feel like I should keep sex vibes tonned down to not seem like a pig this time, but all I want to so is keep pushing towards sex. I've done far more than I ever dreamed I could with a girl I care about.

Okay, I see some problems here. I was in a similar position when I was a total virgin.

You are incredibly needy judging by this comment. You have made this girl into your oneitis. Granted, 5 dates isn't nothing, but it's not enough time for you to stop considering other girls.

Today I had a girl over, she explicitly said that she didn't want to have sex. I sent her home immediately. When you do that, the girl will be under no illusion of what you're after. You'll weed out girls that don't want sex, and the girls who do want it will appreciate your forwardness and honesty.

So here's the issue. Because you spent 5 dates without trying to properly have sex with her, she has gotten the impression that you are fine with not having sex and are fine with just going out on dates and talking.

I personally would not be taking a girl out to dinner and doing elaborate dates if she isn't interested in having sex.

If you had logistics, I would suggest to you to go out with her again and then invite her back to your place on the date. However, since you need to book a hotel in advance that isn't really feasible. Hence again why you need logistics.

There aren't really many good options here. You aren't going to be able to make her change her mind just by telling her you want sex, and she already knows that you're willing to take her out to dinner or on relatively nice dates without having sex with you. If you were to wait around, there's no guarantee that she'll have sex with you any time soon. Your neediness also gives her a lot of leverage, she can keep getting you to take her out on dates without having sex with you until she decides.

I suggest moving somewhere else where you can find more options, being fixated on one girl always ends in disaster.

 

[MostlyAloof]

I. Need. Pussy.

I know most guys would say that, but for my sanity and health, I need it.

I've established sexual contact for the first time in my life with good results.
If I ruin this somehow, it'll destroy me

What should I do when I meet her tomorrow for dinner/drinks at a very basic restaurant?
I feel like I should keep sex vibes tonned down to not seem like a pig this time, but all I want to so is keep pushing towards sex. I've done far more than I ever dreamed I could with a girl I care about.

Okay, I see some problems here. I was in a similar position when I was a total virgin.

You are incredibly needy judging by this comment. You have made this girl into your oneitis. Granted, 5 dates isn't nothing, but it's not enough time for you to stop considering other girls.

Today I had a girl over, she explicitly said that she didn't want to have sex. I sent her home immediately. When you do that, the girl will be under no illusion of what you're after. You'll weed out girls that don't want sex, and the girls who do want it will appreciate your forwardness and honesty.

So here's the issue. Because you spent 5 dates without trying to properly have sex with her, she has gotten the impression that you are fine with not having sex and are fine with just going out on dates and talking.

I personally would not be taking a girl out to dinner and doing elaborate dates if she isn't interested in having sex.

If you had logistics, I would suggest to you to go out with her again and then invite her back to your place on the date. However, since you need to book a hotel in advance that isn't really feasible. Hence again why you need logistics.

There aren't really many good options here. You aren't going to be able to make her change her mind just by telling her you want sex, and she already knows that you're willing to take her out to dinner or on relatively nice dates without having sex with you. If you were to wait around, there's no guarantee that she'll have sex with you any time soon. Your neediness also gives her a lot of leverage, she can keep getting you to take her out on dates without having sex with you until she decides.

I suggest moving somewhere else where you can find more options, being fixated on one girl always ends in disaster.

I totally feel where you're coming from. I know it sounds pretty needy but I still decided to post it. That's because it's worth the risk to me.
We've both paid money for dates, admittedly I've paid more but that's not a big deal for me.

Another thing, she happens to have the same medical condition that I do. Finding her on a dating app, without either of us knowing this, is pretty rare. It's not a horrible condition but it's hard for many people to understand, so we have no judgements there. Symptoms are mild/moderate for both of us. It's not a contagious condition.

Do you have any further advice?

Like, imagine you were me and dead set on seeing this out good or bad.
How would you act on the next date?
Would you still be pushing firmly for sex or would you be more reserved physically?
I touched her enough through her clothes that I could smell her pretty good, she was definitely wet. I manhandled her a bit too.
I even slid my hand past her crotch and between her butt cheeks a couple times. (All of this was over clothes)

I think I've done fairly well so far, but I definitely feel like I could lose her soon. I know that women don't wait forever. I'm scared now. I'm struggling to progress all the way and now she's guarded.

The last member I spoke to on this forum explained making out to me even though I didn't ask. I needed that random advice so badly...
It allowed me to escalate things from nice guy smiling at her, to guy sucking on her nipples/fingering hard through clothes in public parking lot.

I lifted her/moved her and pinned her flat on her back to make out/touch.

I need a rough game plan, preferably with a plan B thought out. I feel pretty lost here

 

[Squilliam]

I totally feel where you're coming from. I know it sounds pretty needy but I still decided to post it. That's because it's worth the risk to me.
We've both paid money for dates, admittedly I've paid more but that's not a big deal for me.

Another thing, she happens to have the same medical condition that I do. Finding her on a dating app, without either of us knowing this, is pretty rare. It's not a horrible condition but it's hard for many people to understand, so we have no judgements there. Symptoms are mild/moderate for both of us. It's not a contagious condition.

If you really like this girl and want to pursue a relationship, then by all means, stay with her. If you're not going to leave her, then let go of any expectation of having sex with her any time soon.

The problem is that she probably picked up on your neediness and knows she can make you wait. As I said, leverage.

In game theory, this balance of leverage and dominance/control in the interaction is typically referred to as "frame". If your frame is weak, the girl will be able to walk all over you.

Do you have any further advice?

Like, imagine you were me and dead set on seeing this out good or bad.
How would you act on the next date?
Would you still be pushing firmly for sex or would you be more reserved physically?
I touched her enough through her clothes that I could smell her pretty good, she was definitely wet. I manhandled her a bit too.
I even slid my hand past her crotch and between her butt cheeks a couple times. (All of this was over clothes)

Personally? I'd have tried to have sex with her on the 1st or 2nd date at the latest. Either invite her back to my place at the end of the first date or directly to my place for the second date.

I don't really know how to answer that question because I'd never pursue a girl who didn't have sex with me after that much time.

If I went on a 6th date though? I'd either hang out for 15 minutes and then invite her back to my place, or probably directly to my place.

Also, I just wanna say that I don't think kissing or other physical acts are necessarily an accurate measure of whether you are close to fucking a girl. Granted, I'm not the most experienced, but I can tell you from personal experience that girls are usually far more willing to kiss and let you touch them than have sex. Like, those actions are a solid tier below actual sex.

I've had girls who let me make out with them on the first date and then either reject me or make me wait another 2 dates to have full on sex. Or I've had girls that let me make out with them and touch them but won't go all the way.

My point is, until a girl is willing to be in private with you, don't assume that she is going to have sex with you based on her other actions. Even then, it's not guaranteed.

Someone more experienced should be explaining this, this doesn't feel like my place lol. I'll let them pick apart my answer if I got anything wrong.

 

[Antonio44]

I think the most useful thing you can do is continue trying to meet other women (while you keep chasing this one if you insist).

You're clearly attractive enough to attract some women and if this one wants to kiss you, there are others who will want to have sex with you. Scale up your efforts.

When you have 3 other tinder chats/ dates ongoing at same time, you'll be much less needy. This will greatly increase chances of one of them having sex with you.

 

[Squilliam]

Also do not drink or break your sobriety just for this girl. I have 1 year sober from alcohol myself. Don't throw that away for some girl dude. Just drink sprite or do a different activity

 

[Brother_Tucker]

What should I do when I meet her tomorrow for dinner/drinks at a very basic restaurant?
I feel like I should keep sex vibes tonned down to not seem like a pig this time, but all I want to do is keep pushing towards sex. I've done far more than I ever dreamed I could with a girl I care about.

But I'll literally do anything at this point

You seem to have an unhealthy way of looking at your sexuality. Firstly, being sexually forward doesn't make you a pig. Don't degrade yourself like this because you wanting sex is totally normal. If she doesn't want it, that's fine and you let her go, but your mindset is extremely dangerous and could lead to you feeling shame about enjoying sex.

If you're willing to do anything, just pay for a hooker. There are loads that deal with virgins a lot and could help you view yourself in a more healthy way. In fact it would probably be a better experience for you. Otherwise, keep on the apps and keep dating. Realistically date 2 should be the sex date or date 3 at the latest if the first 2 dates are good. I wouldnt consider more dates without seeing if we were sexually compatible first as that's just time that could be spent with someone more open to you.

You know you want this, I think you need to ask you're self if you're ready for this and ditch the self deprecating remarks.

 

[Squilliam]

If you're willing to do anything, just pay for a hooker. There are loads that deal with virgins a lot and could help you view yourself in a more healthy way.

The problem with this is I would guess what OP is missing isn't the sex itself, but rather the validation that comes along with it. That's how I felt when I was a virgin and I never wanted to see an escort for that reason.

 

[MostlyAloof]

If you're willing to do anything, just pay for a hooker. There are loads that deal with virgins a lot and could help you view yourself in a more healthy way.

The problem with this is I would guess what OP is missing isn't the sex itself, but rather the validation that comes along with it. That's how I felt when I was a virgin and I never wanted to see an escort for that reason.

I couldn't care less about validation, I merely want to sleep with someone that I find attractive & likes me.

Prostitutes will never be on the table for me.

I get validation everytime I leave the house

 

[MostlyAloof]

What should I do when I meet her tomorrow for dinner/drinks at a very basic restaurant?
I feel like I should keep sex vibes tonned down to not seem like a pig this time, but all I want to do is keep pushing towards sex. I've done far more than I ever dreamed I could with a girl I care about.

But I'll literally do anything at this point

You seem to have an unhealthy way of looking at your sexuality. Firstly, being sexually forward doesn't make you a pig. Don't degrade yourself like this because you wanting sex is totally normal. If she doesn't want it, that's fine and you let her go, but your mindset is extremely dangerous and could lead to you feeling shame about enjoying sex.

If you're willing to do anything, just pay for a hooker. There are loads that deal with virgins a lot and could help you view yourself in a more healthy way. In fact it would probably be a better experience for you. Otherwise, keep on the apps and keep dating. Realistically date 2 should be the sex date or date 3 at the latest if the first 2 dates are good. I wouldnt consider more dates without seeing if we were sexually compatible first as that's just time that could be spent with someone more open to you.

You know you want this, I think you need to ask you're self if you're ready for this and ditch the self deprecating remarks.

It's not that...

I'm literally just trying to figure out how to act tonight. Reserved or sexual?

Asking about being a pig is just my way of saying, should I be forwardly sexual and touchy?

 

[Squilliam]

I couldn't care less about validation, I merely want to sleep with someone that I find attractive & likes me.

So pretty much what I said. If you just wanted sex then a prostitute would suffice. You want the feeling that the girl actually likes you back, hence the validation. I felt the same way.

Being liked IS validation.

 

[Crisis_Overcomer]

I'm literally just trying to figure out how to act tonight. Reserved or sexual?

Mate, I don't think anyone can tell you how to act tonight. The forum's goal is to help guys like you get laid faster, not go on multiple dates without getting your weenie wet.

Want a plan? Next date, pitch going to a place where sex can happen. Either your parent's home, a hotel, or whatevs. Chances are she'll say she's not ready and keep sucking your attention.

 

[MostlyAloof]

I'm literally just trying to figure out how to act tonight. Reserved or sexual?

Mate, I don't think anyone can tell you how to act tonight. The forum's goal is to help guys like you get laid faster, not go on multiple dates without getting your weenie wet.

Want a plan? Next date, pitch going to a place where sex can happen. Either your parent's home, a hotel, or whatevs. Chances are she'll say she's not ready and keep sucking your attention.

I'm simply following Chris's guide, which says that most new guys get laid on the 5th or 6th date.
I didn't want it to take so long, but I was clueless until date 4.

This is a nightmare. I don't have options. I went through every dating profile on 3 dating apps before I met this girl

 

[MostlyAloof]

I'm literally just trying to figure out how to act tonight. Reserved or sexual?

Mate, I don't think anyone can tell you how to act tonight. The forum's goal is to help guys like you get laid faster, not go on multiple dates without getting your weenie wet.

Want a plan? Next date, pitch going to a place where sex can happen. Either your parent's home, a hotel, or whatevs. Chances are she'll say she's not ready and keep sucking your attention.

I'm simply following Chris's guide, which says that most new guys get laid on the 5th or 6th date.
I didn't want it to take so long, but I was clueless until date 4.

This is a nightmare. I don't have options. I went through every dating profile on 3 dating apps before I met this girl
(Like, no other women will even agree to meet me, not even fat/ugly girls)

 

[Squilliam]

I'm simply following Chris's guide, which says that most new guys get laid on the 5th or 6th date.
I didn't want it to take so long, but I was clueless until date 4.

Maybe some new guys. A lot of us lost our virginity on the 1st or 2nd date. Generally speaking there isn't much of an upside to waiting and a huge potential downside.

You're clueless, yes. That's because you're just starting out though. Everybody starts off clueless.

This is a nightmare. I don't have options. I went through every dating profile on 3 dating apps before I met this girl

This is a problem. You need to stop pretending like this girl is the only one that exists.

I'm gonna be blunt: girls don't want to have sex with guys who are desperate to get laid and are low on options.

They like to fuck guys that are non needy, confident, and unafraid to walk away. It's difficult for a girl to walk on a guy with options and value because he won't tolerate it and will go fuck other girls.

See Holden's log if you want a good example of that.

As I mentioned you have given her the impression that you're fine just going out and talking. Let me be clear: As long as you're afraid to walk away, she will be controlling this relationship.

Crisis said it perfectly. She'll probably suck your attention while giving some wishy-washy excuse about how she doesn't feel ready. It's going to be hard to regain control of the frame at this point in the process. I would say if you want to bang this girl, you will have to risk losing her.

Right now, she clearly received the same message that you relayed to us. You're not going anywhere because you're obsessed with her. She clearly knows that.

She'd think twice about making wishy washy excuses if she knew you were going to walk away when she said no. Granted, if she genuinely is not wanting to fuck, it's not like walking away will change her mind. It probably won't.

What you need to do is move somewhere else where you can find more girls. You are going to be devastated when something happens if you just focus on this one girl. The fact that you were willing to sacrifice 6 years of sobriety to appease some girl is concerning.

 

[MostlyAloof]

I'm simply following Chris's guide, which says that most new guys get laid on the 5th or 6th date.
I didn't want it to take so long, but I was clueless until date 4.

Maybe some new guys. A lot of us lost our virginity on the 1st or 2nd date. Generally speaking there isn't much of an upside to waiting and a huge potential downside.

You're clueless, yes. That's because you're just starting out though. Everybody starts off clueless.

This is a nightmare. I don't have options. I went through every dating profile on 3 dating apps before I met this girl

This is a problem. You need to stop pretending like this girl is the only one that exists.

I'm gonna be blunt: girls don't want to have sex with guys who are desperate to get laid and are low on options.

They like to fuck guys that are non needy, confident, and unafraid to walk away. It's difficult for a girl to walk on a guy with options and value because he won't tolerate it and will go fuck other girls.

See Holden's log if you want a good example of that.

As I mentioned you have given her the impression that you're fine just going out and talking. Let me be clear: As long as you're afraid to walk away, she will be controlling this relationship.

Crisis said it perfectly. She'll probably suck your attention while giving some wishy-washy excuse about how she doesn't feel ready. It's going to be hard to regain control of the frame at this point in the process. I would say if you want to bang this girl, you will have to risk losing her.

Right now, she clearly received the same message that you relayed to us. You're not going anywhere because you're obsessed with her. She clearly knows that.

She'd think twice about making wishy washy excuses if she knew you were going to walk away when she said no. Granted, if she genuinely is not wanting to fuck, it's not like walking away will change her mind. It probably won't.

What you need to do is move somewhere else where you can find more girls. You are going to be devastated when something happens if you just focus on this one girl. The fact that you were willing to sacrifice 6 years of sobriety to appease some girl is concerning.

Do ultimatums work? If I tell any girl it's sex or nothing, does that ever actually work out?

Does it make sense to give an ultimatum only in person?

 

[Squilliam]

Do ultimatums work? If I tell any girl it's sex or nothing, does that ever actually work out?

No, they don't. I am not suggesting that you tell a girl "sex or nothing". I explicitly said that walking away will probably not make her change her mind. I am not saying to give her an ultimatum, I am saying you need to learn to feel free to walk away when your needs aren't being met.

 

[loki]

Do ultimatums work? If I tell any girl it's sex or nothing, does that ever actually work out?

Ultimatums work, but verbalizing that it's about sex will more than counter the effect.

You want to act like you'll walk away if you don't get sex, without ever actually explicitly stating it. That's what makes girls put out to Chads on the first date - the Chads never say it's sex or nothing, but girls can feel and know from experience that they won't get a second date with him if they don't put out.

If you do wanna go for an ultimatum, you can try using the words "intimacy" or "getting more physical" or "having a man to woman connection" instead of "sex". It still implies the same thing but without being as likely to have her refuse.