How can I seal the deal? (6th date)

[Squilliam]

You want to act like you'll walk away if you don't get sex, without ever actually explicitly stating it. That's what makes girls put out to Chads on the first date - the Chads never say it's sex or nothing, but girls can feel and know from experience that they won't get a second date with him if they don't put out.

Yep. I was talking about spoken ultimatums. Implicit is definitely the way to go here

 

[Squilliam]

Ultimatums work, but verbalizing that it's about sex will more than counter the effect.

You want to act like you'll walk away if you don't get sex, without ever actually explicitly stating it. That's what makes girls put out to Chads on the first date - the Chads never say it's sex or nothing, but girls can feel and know from experience that they won't get a second date with him if they don't put out.

If you do wanna go for an ultimatum, you can try using the words "intimacy" or "getting more physical" or "having a man to woman connection" instead of "sex". It still implies the same thing but without being as likely to have her refuse.

MostlyAloof - This is a solid explanation of what I was getting at earlier. You have to implicitly communicate that you are going to walk away if you don't get sex. Verbally giving her an ultimatum is not going to work, it's just going to make her hostile.

When I said, "if she knew you were going to walk away" I was speaking purely hypothetically and was not suggesting that you go and give her an ultimatum.

Let me explain: My last lay was this bitchy dominant sarcastic girl. I attempted to pull her 3 times throughout the date and she said no every time. The 3rd time, I said okay, well I'm gonna go home then. She barely even acknowledges me as I tried to say goodbye. I'm like okay, whatever. I walk away, get about a block away, then she calls me on the phone telling me it was a "joke" (yeah hah) and then I went to her house and we fucked (although it was a pretty subpar experience and will not get into that here).

That girl probably never would've slept with me if I had just kept spending time with her on the date and asking her for the pull, but because I showed a willingness to walk away I appeared non-needy.

Point is, you need to learn to be (or at least appear) non-needy and willing to walk away. Even if you are needy as fuck, just do your best not to show it. A willingness to walk away shows that you have options and self-respect, and won't settle for a situation that doesn't meet your standards.

 

[MostlyAloof]

Ultimatums work, but verbalizing that it's about sex will more than counter the effect.

You want to act like you'll walk away if you don't get sex, without ever actually explicitly stating it. That's what makes girls put out to Chads on the first date - the Chads never say it's sex or nothing, but girls can feel and know from experience that they won't get a second date with him if they don't put out.

If you do wanna go for an ultimatum, you can try using the words "intimacy" or "getting more physical" or "having a man to woman connection" instead of "sex". It still implies the same thing but without being as likely to have her refuse.

@MostlyAloof - This is a solid explanation of what I was getting at earlier. You have to implicitly communicate that you are going to walk away if you don't get sex. Verbally giving her an ultimatum is not going to work, it's just going to make her hostile.

When I said, "if she knew you were going to walk away" I was speaking purely hypothetically and was not suggesting that you go and give her an ultimatum.

Let me explain: My last lay was this bitchy dominant sarcastic girl. I attempted to pull her 3 times throughout the date and she said no every time. The 3rd time, I said okay, well I'm gonna go home then. She barely even acknowledges me as I tried to say goodbye. I'm like okay, whatever. I walk away, get about a block away, then she calls me on the phone telling me it was a "joke" (yeah hah) and then I went to her house and we fucked (although it was a pretty subpar experience and will not get into that here).

That girl probably never would've slept with me if I had just kept spending time with her on the date and asking her for the pull, but because I showed a willingness to walk away I appeared non-needy.

Point is, you need to learn to be (or at least appear) non-needy and willing to walk away. Even if you are needy as fuck, just do your best not to show it. A willingness to walk away shows that you have options and self-respect, and won't settle for a situation that doesn't meet your standards.

You are merely assuming I appear needy to her, but I simply typed a needy sounding message.
I certainty don't act needy in person with her. I talk to her like she's my friend and we kiss periodically.

If anything, she probably thinks I'm unaware/naive about most things. Because I am and it shows.

Do you know why she would pay for dates sometimes? Is it out of guilt?
If she was only interested in wasting my time, why would she pay for dates?
Just curious if you've ran into this

 

[Squilliam]

You are merely assuming I appear needy to her, but I simply typed a needy sounding message.
I certainty don't act needy in person with her. I talk to her like she's my friend and we kiss periodically.

So the thing is you clearly are needy, and that likely shows in the way you interact with her. I can't say for sure but judging by your posts, you are coming across as very needy. That isn't an insult, I have the same issue and it's still a struggle for me.

The line about you treating her like a friend is also kinda concerning to me. That isn't optimal for getting laid. You need to turn things sexual and show her that you are a sexual being who wants to have sex.

Do you know why she would pay for dates sometimes? Is it out of guilt?
If she was only interested in wasting my time, why would she pay for dates?
Just curious if you've ran into this

I can't answer that. I'm not saying she's only interested in wasting your time. I mean, she's spent 5 dates with you, she clearly likes you to some extent. It's hard to say why she's doing without knowing her sexual history, and even then you won't know for sure.

However, 5 dates really is more than enough time for her to be comfortable enough to have sex with you. That's the problem I see here. It doesn't seem like she's saying no due to lack of comfort. Have you talked about sexual history? Has she hooked up before? If the answer is yes, then her saying no here is a red flag IMO.

If I'm being honest, I think this girl views you as a nice guy to settle down with potentially, and thus the sex part isn't at the forefront of her mind. Given your age, and assuming she is around the same age, that would make sense. Take that with a grain of salt, that is purely my opinion. Nobody can read her mind.

Everybody else has told you the real answer: Go talk to more girls. If you had 3 other girls you were planning to see this week, would you care if this one said no to sex with you? Hell no. So take the steps you need to move to a better location. I get that not everybody can easily just move, but you can take baby steps each day.

 

[MostlyAloof]

You are merely assuming I appear needy to her, but I simply typed a needy sounding message.
I certainty don't act needy in person with her. I talk to her like she's my friend and we kiss periodically.

So the thing is you clearly are needy, and that likely shows in the way you interact with her. I can't say for sure but judging by your posts, you are coming across as very needy. That isn't an insult, I have the same issue and it's still a struggle for me.

The line about you treating her like a friend is also kinda concerning to me. That isn't optimal for getting laid. You need to turn things sexual and show her that you are a sexual being who wants to have sex.

Do you know why she would pay for dates sometimes? Is it out of guilt?
If she was only interested in wasting my time, why would she pay for dates?
Just curious if you've ran into this

I can't answer that. I'm not saying she's only interested in wasting your time. I mean, she's spent 5 dates with you, she clearly likes you to some extent. It's hard to say why she's doing without knowing her sexual history, and even then you won't know for sure.

However, 5 dates really is more than enough time for her to be comfortable enough to have sex with you. That's the problem I see here. It doesn't seem like she's saying no due to lack of comfort. Have you talked about sexual history? Has she hooked up before? If the answer is yes, then her saying no here is a red flag IMO.

If I'm being honest, I think this girl views you as a nice guy to settle down with potentially, and thus the sex part isn't at the forefront of her mind. Given your age, and assuming she is around the same age, that would make sense. Take that with a grain of salt, that is purely my opinion. Nobody can read her mind.

Everybody else has told you the real answer: Go talk to more girls. If you had 3 other girls you were planning to see this week, would you care if this one said no to sex with you? Hell no. So take the steps you need to move to a better location. I get that not everybody can easily just move, but you can take baby steps each day.

She hasn't discussed sexual history, is that something we are supposed to do?

I don't know how to speak like a sexual being.

Also keep in mind, I didn't touch her sexually until last Saturday. Maybe she's just been wondering why I waited so long to initiate?

I'd be surprised if she saw me as just a 'nice guy', I'm built like a tank from years of lifting. Muscle ain't everything but it helps a lot...women stare at me.

I try to talk to more girls, my town is very limiting. Dating apps are my only option for now, and it's rare that I actually meet them. Many of them stand me up.

I'm not doing nothing, I'm saving thousands and will move to a big city soon enough.

Also maybe important, I think this girl is a bit of a shut-in/homebody. She only speaks of family/coworkers.
That may be irrelevant to how she behaves, I don't know.

 

[Squilliam]

She hasn't discussed sexual history, is that something we are supposed to do?

I don't know how to speak like a sexual being.

Also keep in mind, I didn't touch her sexually until last Saturday. Maybe she's just been wondering why I waited so long to initiate?

I'd be surprised if she saw me as just a 'nice guy', I'm built like a tank from years of lifting. Muscle ain't everything but it helps a lot...women stare at me.

It doesn't matter how buff you are, this isn't really about your looks. It's about your vibe and your behavior. You have communicated to her that you are fine with going out on 5 dates without having actual sex. What I said was purely my opinion and really should not be given much weight, as I was speculating.

Player guys with options don't usually wait 5 dates to have sex. They get the girls to sleep with them on their schedule or they next them for a girl who will.

Granted, if you don't want to be a player and would be content with just one gf that's fine, but in your case it seems like it's more a matter of not being able to date multiple women due to living in a tiny town.

That's good that you're saving money to move. I assume you live in a tiny town, and moving to a big city will help you immensely. If you're buff and good looking you should have no problem getting dates with fairly decent quality women, assuming your photos are good.

You don't have to talk about sexual history if you don't want to, but it is commonly discussed in relationships. If she is a homebody then perhaps she is inexperienced, you can ask her about her past relationships and then turn the subject to sex.

When I say be a sexual being, I'm not saying to be crass and vulgar. Unless you're having actual sex and dirty talking, that's the one exception. However, you can show girls that you are into them sexually by giving them compliments, find a good balance, you don't want it to be too sexually charged, but it can't be too PG either. I usually text every lead I get from dating apps with "Hey sexy", because it weeds out a lot of girls who are not into sex. Granted, it won't get all of them, but a lot of them.

I wouldn't talk too much about sex directly. You can also do some innuendos and you've already been physically escalating in some ways which does convey sexual intent.

The problem is a lot of these tactics should be done before you go out with her for the first time. By the 6th date she's already formed an image of the kind of person you are like.

 

[Antonio44]

it's rare that I actually meet them. Many of them stand me up.

It might be helpful if you post some of the conversations you have with these girls that stand you up - could be a simple fix.

 

[Crisis_Overcomer]

OK folks, this thread is officially at mental masturbation level so I'm locking it. Shame on me for not noticing earlier.

I went through every dating profile on 3 dating apps before I met this girl
(Like, no other women will even agree to meet me, not even fat/ugly girls)

Create a thread titled MostlyAloof's Log or something.

Share your profiles and your texts/messages. Don't go "oh, I'm following XYZ's guide, I got a nice body, and friends and family say I dress nicely" or anything like that. PICS.

I guarantee you're fucking up 100 different ways without realizing it. If you want help, create a log (take inspiration from Crimson)and share exactly what you're doing.