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The LooksMaxxing Mega Thread: How To Become A Better Looking Man

MakingAComeback

MakingAComeback

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Jan 19, 2021
Hey bros!

For those of us who are DEAD ASS SERIOUS, and have done the work, for years, but want to break through to the next level, this one's for us.

We will explore any, and all, be it underground or otherwise, looks improvement and development technique, to enable us to get better, and for us to win.

I will start us off by sharing my experience with Mewwing, or palatial expansion.

I believe mewwing, using the ALF upper expander, did help my facial structure and form. I look more masculine and alpha than I did before, due to developments in my upper jaw, cheekbones, and improvements to facial tone, muscle function, and form.

Below, I will outline the theoretical foundation of mewwing.

But before that, I'd like to highlight, that mewwing is long term work, and also, in comparison to musclular development, weight loss, and hair transplant, is LOW ROI!

The best looks maxxes, are weight loss, muscle gain, style improvements, and hair. Basically, the big stuff Andy and Radical talk about.

After that, this is where this thread comes in.

We will explore ideas, like cosmetic surgeries, facial form development, postural augmentation, skincare, whatever, to help us win.

My brown ass will be on a surgeons table, a few times next year, believe me!

LETS GO!

WINNER WITHIN LOOKSMAXXING BEST POSTS:
PANCAKEMOUSE LOOKSMAXXING GUIDE: HERE.

-Ravi
 
THEORETICAL FOUNDATION OF MEWWING/AIRWAY DEVELOPMENT: RE-ALIGNING THE HUMAN STRUCTURE FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE & AESTHETICS

Mewwing is a multi-facted idea with a lot of moving parts. To make mewwing work for YOU, it is an individual journey. It may be surgery for some (MSE), or it may be expansion of narrow airways (like my case, I had to get an ALF upper expander fitted and start myobrace therapy). Or, for some, you can just do the hard work of retraining oral and body posture and strengthening the jaw.

There are, as my mentor Dr Jesse used to say, MANY WAYS UP THE MOUNTAIN ;-)

What we are trying to do with this work is develop your airway.

Your airway is your jaw and tongue. The good news for seducers and self improvers, a properly development airway is also a very aesthetically pleasing thing. It makes you sexier.

Mewwing is deceptively simple: stand up straight, tongue on the roof of your mouth.

But that's where it gets complicated.

Tongue on the roof of your mouth requires:
-A wide enough upper palate (most people have a narrow pallate)
-A strong enough and properly trained tongue (most have a weak tongue and poor myofunctional habbits)
-Proper breathing (nasal breathing only, most are mouth breathing, in particular during sleep which is causing them to age rapidly and is cooking their brain)

Standing up straight requires:
-Excellent posture
-Strong core musculature in the low back, hips, glutes, abdominals
-Excellent length-tension relationship of the muscles in the body. No tight body parts. You need to be FLEXIBLE

As such, this deceptively simple idea becomes a whole lifestyle that requires 8hrs a work a day


.............FOR YEARS

I have been working with my orthodontist since Feb 2022. We've gained about 4mm of expansion in my upper jaw. That means my upper jaw HAS gotten wider, and as such, improved in aesthetics and symetry, form and function. Sleep is now restorative and deeper, I used to wake up tired. This is good, but this road is long.

Took me 7 years of breathwork to retrain my breathing, 7 years of mouth taping at night, 3 years of 3hrs of breathwork a day.

Key Takeaway:
-This is about building ultimate health and function and once you start down this road, understand it may take years. You'll also need expert advice. I spoke to several world class orthodontists when developing my protocol, including very expensive sessions with Mike Mew (several hundreds for 30 mins of his time....yeah).

YOUR CASE:

-Some do need jaw surgery to start mewwing. They need their jaw cracked. Some, like me, need expansion. They need their jaw widened. Some just need some basic work done, but need consistency.

Most people who think they're mewwing are actually just wasting their time. How I avoided this was simple: I worked with a professional. He took moulds of my jaw, x-rays, and we measure everything every month.

You will find a way if you want to do this work, but you must start by STUDYING and SEEKING EXPERT ADVICE. Don't be a chump, play to win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4kTW17x7Yo

MASTER MIKE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5S5AZ50pAE&t=419s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfkCPAQgXhg&t=1869s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTgabHFFyRY&t=673s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCWcddV69Pk&t=40s

(Dr Tom is fucking LEGIT)

Thats the start. Watch all of them, twice. Wait a wait, do it again. Sunday is a good day for this.

You can then start reading, studying.

....Only then, if you're still interested, start finding expert advice and get consults. Pay for their time, and get expert orthodontists to examine your jaw and help you understand how you can develop an elite airway.

You are not shy of hard work, are you? You got this..........

MAC
 
Will drop my guide here: https://pancakemouse.wordpress.com/2022/02/22/the-beginners-guide-to-maximizing-your-looks/

This is meant to be a general overview of all looksmaxxing techniques. If I'm missing anything, let me know.
 
pancakemouse said:
Will drop my guide here: https://pancakemouse.wordpress.com/2022/02/22/the-beginners-guide-to-maximizing-your-looks/

This is meant to be a general overview of all looksmaxxing techniques. If I'm missing anything, let me know.
Click to expand...

For sure, I'll add this to the original post.

And any other good contributions guys want to make, will be in the 1st post for easy reference

MAC DADDY
 
Meanwhile on the marketing side of the internet:

https://i.imgur.com/13oi59R.png

The above is aimed at excessive looksmaxxing stemming from lack of self-acceptance & self-love (examples he brings out). Not self-improvement.

As is common for Twitter, an extreme polarizing take, but has truth in it.

Just leaving this, maybe will make some newbs think. Not to start an argument about right vs. wrong.

Or where the line between lack of self-acceptance/self-love vs. genuinely improving your looks & life lies. That's a personal decision.

I personally did have issues in the past with "looks perfectionism" stemming from my lack of self-acceptance, self-love & a lack of male role models around me.

Learning self-acceptance (there's books), clarification of goals (I don't need visible abs, 10% bodyfat, or super-high lifts in the gym for anything beyond my ego), and finding role models of men who successful in the areas of life where you want to be successful at (for me none are "looksmaxxing" or have even heard of it beyond selling stuff to insecure men) is the way out if you are struggling with a lack of self love.

Something like that.
 
Thank you Astronaut and I welcome this discussion, and support it fully

I, too, am concerned about unncessary looksmaxxing and especially using surgeries

I welcome this counter point, and as ever, cannot make recommendations or advise, at all.

It's on the individual to decide.

-Ravi
 
Does anyone have experience with or knowledge about bonemashing? This is when you use a hammer to apply pressure to certain poins of your face (such as cheekbones) in order to stimulate growth of these bones. So far Ive only seen this on incel/lookism communities and Im not sure if its actually a legitimate way to change your facial structure.
 
Astronaut said:
Meanwhile on the marketing side of the internet:

https://i.imgur.com/13oi59R.png

The above is aimed at excessive looksmaxxing stemming from lack of self-acceptance & self-love (examples he brings out). Not self-improvement.

As is common for Twitter, an extreme polarizing take, but has truth in it.

Just leaving this, maybe will make some newbs think. Not to start an argument about right vs. wrong.

Or where the line between lack of self-acceptance/self-love vs. genuinely improving your looks & life lies. That's a personal decision.

I personally did have issues in the past with "looks perfectionism" stemming from my lack of self-acceptance, self-love & a lack of male role models around me.

Learning self-acceptance (there's books), clarification of goals (I don't need visible abs, 10% bodyfat, or super-high lifts in the gym for anything beyond my ego), and finding role models of men who successful in the areas of life where you want to be successful at (for me none are "looksmaxxing" or have even heard of it beyond selling stuff to insecure men) is the way out if you are struggling with a lack of self love.

Something like that.
Click to expand...

I don't know a single thing about chewing devices/mewwing, but pathetic or not, all the other stuff mentioned in that twitter post actually does work.

" (I don't need visible abs, 10% bodyfat, or super-high lifts in the gym for anything beyond my ego)"

I think this is a weird take. Why wouldn't you want these things. They are the ideal. I don't NEED great sex or great food or great clothes or anything other than 1 bedroom appt, chicken breast, broccoli, and water. I want them though. I never went down the negative harmful side of looksmaxxing, but people working hard in the gym and their diet to maximize their aesthetic appeal is something worthy of praise, not mockery. Beauty is a timeless ideal, and we are all striving to be beautiful in deed, character, and aesthetically. Beauty is an undeniable force driving all humans, and this is easily provable by how captivating beauty is.

The means people choose may be worthy of mockery, but not the goal itself.
 
Astronaut said:
The above is aimed at excessive looksmaxxing stemming from lack of self-acceptance & self-love (examples he brings out). Not self-improvement.

As is common for Twitter, an extreme polarizing take, but has truth in it.

Just leaving this, maybe will make some newbs think. Not to start an argument about right vs. wrong.

Or where the line between lack of self-acceptance/self-love vs. genuinely improving your looks & life lies. That's a personal decision.

I personally did have issues in the past with "looks perfectionism" stemming from my lack of self-acceptance, self-love & a lack of male role models around me.

Learning self-acceptance (there's books), clarification of goals (I don't need visible abs, 10% bodyfat, or super-high lifts in the gym for anything beyond my ego), and finding role models of men who successful in the areas of life where you want to be successful at (for me none are "looksmaxxing" or have even heard of it beyond selling stuff to insecure men) is the way out if you are struggling with a lack of self love.

Something like that.
Click to expand...
The only thing true in that screenshot is that there are some gurus out there definitely looking to make a quick buck preying on vulnerable men. But telling men who don't look good enough that all they need is self-love is just insulting. It's peak bluepill mindset.

We live in a society where looking good is becoming more and more important. With all the choices women have these days, you need to stand out. Looks ultimately act as a proxy for SMV, especially in the online dating/social media space. The one exception is social status if you have enough of it. Which doesn't apply to 99% of guys.

I'll admit that I'm very fixated on my appearance. But I feel like I have to be. There is no other way to compete nowadays. It's a dog eat dog world. For most men, either you suck it up and put in the work, or you be lonely with no intimacy.

I'm not denying the importance of the other factors of SMV, but looksmaxxing is an extremely important thing, and while some of those procedures or steps are unnecessary, I do think looks are #1, with the exception being if you have an insane amount of social status (e.g. you're a celebrity).

I think Zug's answer is spot on. The means might be worthy of mockery at times, but not the end in itself.
 
it's a nuanced topic, so by definition any reductive generalizations are bound to not exactly hit the mark.

there is clearly a point beyond which additional looksmaxxing is pathological and self-destructive, but most people are probably not approaching anywhere near that point. I think as long as you're forming your own opinion about what to do based on your actual values, you'll probably end up ok.

i have heard stories of 5'8 men getting leg lengthening surgery. I doubt most of them are going to find what they seek (happiness, presumably), and with some of these protocols (like leg lengthening surgery or trenbolone as 2 easy examples), the price is extremely steep and I suspect most people partaking haven't really considered it fairly. it would be hard to call these sorts of trade-offs healthy. other trade-offs, like more minor surgeries and lifestyle changes, likely are. the bottom line is you need to draw the boundary yourself.
 
I like the healthy scepticism bros

It's a case by case thing

I like that there are guys pushing back, and I respect it. But, to find a healthy middle ground, maybe we can include a caveat.

Perhaps we can say, these things should be explored when other avenues have been exhausted

Remember, I have dated over 200 girls, approached over 7000, got some lays, and have kind of got a feel for what happens at lower levels of looks. It is difficult in excess but with absolute god tier determination, and relentless grinding, you CAN produce outcomes.

I do this, consistently.

However, dating women, at lower levels of looks & SMV, is savagery. You get endless rejection, poor quality, retention issues, and you see some ugly stuff. Women ashamed to date you, to tell their friends they're seeing you, this sort of stuff, is genuinely painful, and you can't blame women (I don't), you have to take this in your stride.

I think it may be good to say, guys should get to over 100 dates, and over 1000 approaches maybe, before they consider this stuff.

Going on this journey, I wanted to exhaust all avenues to make sure I knew I gave it my all. Given my very shitty reception, and 3 years of data points, in my own specific case, I am going to get deeper into this stuff. While I don't expect it to make much of a difference (hair transplants usually help men, a lot, it didn't do much for me sadly), I think it will make the next 3 years less brutal.

Though if it doesn't, it does not matter. I know I am strong enough to persist.

-R
 
Astronaut said:
Meanwhile on the marketing side of the internet:
Click to expand...

I completely agree with Mac that you should first do the basics: These include low bodyfat with muscle, healthy skin, good photos and at least reasonable dating experience. If you're still not getting results or not the results you want, it's time to look at other options.

If you're willing to work with someone who isn't a professional of any kind, you're taking a big risk. The scammers are always lurking on the edges, this is the same with making big money in biz, and fitness, even dating photographers, ...


GoodLookingNerd said:
Does anyone have experience with or knowledge about bonemashing? This is when you use a hammer to apply pressure to certain poins of your face (such as cheekbones) in order to stimulate growth of these bones. So far Ive only seen this on incel/lookism communities and Im not sure if its actually a legitimate way to change your facial structure.
Click to expand...

I don't have any experience but I wouldn't advise it. Even if there was scientific proof that it does stimulate bone growth, you don't have access to any medical devices to check if what you're doing is having the correct effect.

There's a famous saying that the difference between incel and chad is sometimes online 1mm. Let's say you start bone smashing and you overdo the growth and now you have a severe underbite instead of a chad jawline, which means you just created a new problem.

It's your life but I would leave any intervention that can drastically strange the facial structure up to professionals.
 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2nuzf0FxO94
Posting this here, I'm gonna be doing this as I get into my 30s to keep looking fresh as possible, especially as a ginger working in the sun
 
Skincare:

6 months of using face wash & moisturiser every morning, and every night, and skin improved a lot!

I get comments on it, and this is super cool.

The products I used, were:

-CeraVe Hydrating Cleanser with Hyaluronic Acid for Normal to Dry Skin 236ml
-CeraVe Moisturising Cream

I am happy with the results, and when I got back to the UK, and greeted my Mum, she thought I had some sort of procedure done. I had to convince here, I was just doing skincare with a lot of consistency.

These things, are good, and probably added 0.0125 to my SMV - lol ;-)

-MAC
 
MAC LooksMaxxing - Surgery Exploration

Tagging Zug who wanted to know what procedures I am considering, and why:

(1) Rhinoplasty:

-What is the procedure?

-Why am I going to get a rhinoplasty?

To improve my SMV, as this is now mission-critical.

After a product has been thoroughly tested, and we just couldn't create the outcomes we seek, you have to change variables.

My product, improved a lot:

View attachment 4
View attachment 3

.....3 years of hardcore underground self improvement:

View attachment 2



My goal, is to find a partner. Through my own process, performing thousands of cold approaches, going on 200+ online dating app dates, and working on myself, very intensively over a 3 year process, I found, I just couldn't get a match quality that I would deem "acceptable" on the online dating apps. Dates with girls, who I would consider a genuine romantic prospect, just didn't occur.

The option to lower my standards, isn't there - so to plug the gap, and begin to attract women who are at least "decent" in quality (bringing something to that table, adding to my life in some way), I have to have concrete and significant changes to my physical product.

Traditional softmaxxing, that is, weight loss, skincare, style, even hardmaxxing like hair transplants, did not get me over the line.

After a full year on Hinge, I got 2 likes on my profile. 2!

I did get some matches on Tinder and Bumble (mostly quite gross, or older, decaying women, with whom, the timeline for starting a family is a non-starter).


-What improvement to my outcomes do I expect?


(2) View attachment 2
 
MAC LooksMaxxing - Surgery Exploration

Tagging Zug who wanted to know what procedures I am considering, and why:

(1) Rhinoplasty:

-What is the procedure?

This is a nose reshaping procedure, which improves our Golden Ratio of the face. As our face becomes more aesthetically pleasing, our attractiveness to women, and hence, our dating life, improves a lot. SMV is the most important factor for dating, above all else: we know this, because if a guy JUST has the SMV, and nothing else together, he will still succeed at the highest level. The higher your SMV, the less you need of everything else. Women, let men with higher SMV get away with murder, essentially, and everyone else, has to play the meat market, and get access to a lower level, and quite unsatisfying dating experience.

The procedure, given that it alters the face in a significant way, brings the possibility of significant SMV changes. We have a split second on the apps, to have impact. In person, she decides, fairly fast. That's women, and that's the way nature designed it.

-Why am I going to get a rhinoplasty?

To improve my SMV, as this is now mission-critical.

After a product has been thoroughly tested, and we just couldn't create the outcomes we seek, you have to change variables.

My product, improved a lot:


View attachment 1

.....3 years of hardcore underground self improvement:

View attachment 4
View attachment 3
View attachment 2

I am happy with the work I have done, happy with my investment in myself, and ongoing dedication and commitment. Despite my best efforts, I have hitherto, been unable to get the type of quality I am looking for. So, you draw a line under the sand, and simply go deeper.

Dissecting my physical appearance, and finding the weak areas, which make impact my ability to create attraction the way that a man would need to be able to, I have opted to address the actual issues, and develop my product further, and take personal responsibility for this.

-Issue: I have a very "hard face", and some suboptimal facial features. Large nose, forehead wrinkles, and a general lack of facial harmony/attractiveness. Check out a video here:

https://youtu.be/t3qctckkH90?si=Z2m8taTfYpvCAnuX

Unfortunately, this is not a look that is going to gather much attraction, and I attribute my lacklustre results on the dating apps, and on cold approach, to this. Through sheer volume, technical Game, and masculinity, I have still been able to date plenty of girls, sleep with some, and improve my life in a major way.

What is within our control, should be maximised, IMO. So rather than accepting the quality available to me right now, I will tackle the problem, directly. I will need a more aesthetically acceptable nose, and this will support my SMV development.

There isn't really a way around it. My goal, is to find a partner. Through my own process, performing thousands of cold approaches, going on 200+ online dating app dates, and working on myself, very intensively over a 3 year process, I found, I just couldn't get a match quality that I would deem "acceptable" on the online dating apps. Dates with girls, who I would consider a genuine romantic prospect, just didn't occur. Arguing with reality, does not tend to be useful: it is what it is.

Optimising what we can, and having the grace to accept the rest, is the correct approach.

Making concrete, significant changes to my physical product, in the areas where there are weak links, will improve my results.

Traditional softmaxxing, that is, weight loss, skincare, style, even hardmaxxing like hair transplants, did not get me over the line - data as follows from the past 12 months:

-Poor match quality: mostly what I got on the apps, were the older, unattractive, undesirables. With consistency, once in a blue moon, I'd get someone who was "OK". I did get these girls on dates, and I did bang them. 2 stayed with me after sex, which was good. A 3rd, I politely declined from my rotation at the time.....
-Poor match frequency: I'd get a lead or two a month. These women, often left a lot to be desired. Very lacklustre individuals.
-CA & NG Receptivity: It was often an uphill battle to get any fleeting attraction, and it did become quite exhausting.

Clearly, this is not a sustainable pathway forward.

-What improvement to my outcomes do I expect?

Improved match quality, frequency, and better receptivity and frame in set.

(2) Buccal Fat Removal:

Why?

Hallow cheeks contribute to overall facial beauty. Through several years of mewwing, I have improved my facial form, but after a consult with Dr Mike himself, he did advise my cheeks were not hallow enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMF3XVR9noM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqUm7EaD1zo&t=1s

A buccal fat removal procedure gives us the opportunity to attain this look, and hence, improve our SMV.

These two procedures, I think will be high ROI for me, and make a real terms difference to my life. Hence, I will likely be investing in them this year.

Other things I am working on:

-Body transformation: I am working with a top body recomp coach, to go through a body transformation process. This will be a 12 month commitment.
-Tattooing: Full sleeve.
-Style Upgrades

Applying the above, I think, should get me from my current level, to the next. I expect, this will be 12 months of work.

It may be year 4 or 5, that I start to create the type of outcomes I seek, and find someone worthwhile.

And that's alright. Time will pass, either way. I can either be the Chad version of Ravi, who gets killer results in life. Or, I can be the version who stayed about here, getting some results, but not really getting to the top.

I have made my choice.

-Ravi
 
MakingAComeback said:
MAC LooksMaxxing - Surgery Exploration

Tagging @Zug who wanted to know what procedures I am considering, and why
Click to expand...

Context to above:

MAC is now back at his parents house where he cannot consistently game. This leads his mind, as a form of escapism, to invest fantasies for how to ascend, which include claiming that he has "thoroughly tested" his product (narrator: he hasn't). Having worked with him for some time, this is a normal observable part of his mental health cycle, and I would advise no one engage further with this until his brain is feeling better.
 
MakingAComeback said:
(2) Buccal Fat Removal:
Click to expand...

I looked into Buccal Fat Removal. One big concern I had was the possibility of prematurely aging myself. Your cheeks naturally lose fat as they age. Buccal fat removal that looks good now, might make you look old and gaunt 5 years from now. Or it might not, that’s one of the risks. And there’s no way to reverse the procedure. Another concern is the possibility of facial nerve damage, which is really rare but could completely ruin your life and make you unable to smile. Something to be aware of, although again it is unlikely.

Most plastic surgeons are not going to give you an objective look at all the downsides. At best, they are biased. When you have a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail, or whatever the saying is. Make sure you seek out the other point of view and are completely aware of the risks before going under the knife. Some people regret it.

https://www.realself.com/review/buccal-fat-removal-amazing-experience-amazing-results

Here a plastic surgeon explains why he stopped doing the procedure. It’s just one perspective of course, but it should be mandatory viewing before electing to undergo the procedure.

https://youtu.be/TcALGkAd1Zc?si=8tsmgDNbolI8ph-T
 
Mac was talking about surgery when he was getting laid every 3 days in Budapest.

He did 5k approaches when he admittedly looked very far below average and still pulled through.

There’s nothing wrong with surgery to optimize smv, it’s almost becoming a normie thing. If the surgery doesn’t give the sought after results, I’m sure he’ll find another way to keep going. If it does however add even the slightest point of smv, it’s worth it.

I understand everyone’s paranoia about plastic surgery and some blackpill beliefs but in the end he clearly wants it and has the money do to do. It’s his money, therefore only his own opinion counts.
 
I don't have skin in the game regarding surgery options being good or bad. I am curious on the risks though. Even if you axiomatically accept that the good outcomes are really good, what are the chances for great, good, mediocre, bad, and devastating outcomes?

Take breast enlargement or BBL. The specific skill of the surgeon, the point in history you got the procedure, your genetic makeup, your age, all of these are/were huge factors in determining if its worth it. People do die from cosmetic procedures irregularly, and its quite common for people to get procedures that cause a net negative, even large net negative with very very few repercussions.

There are multiple posts online from women paying thousands for procedures that left them off MUCH worse and having virtually no options to fix the problem or get justice in anyway.

Not saying this to scare anyone off, but the specific matter a huge huge deal. Its not a binary decision either, some stuff in the realm of "Almost always great and almost always works" and other things are "Rarely works, but can and provides medium benefit" and further "works half the time, 6 month recovery minimum, low benefit", etc.

I considered some loose skin removal after the weight loss. Its not that bad when I'm vertical, but if I bend over horizontally its fairly gross. However, after really looking at multiple outcomes, it seemed pretty clear to me the huge recovery time and cost are signfiicant. More importantly though, the scarring was actually worse and more grotesque than the skin, so there' wasn't enough benefit. If there were even more skin, then I'd lean towards doing it.

tldr- these are multifactorial choices, don't accept simple responses and analysis from people for complex problems.
 
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