colgate - High Volume Approaching & Pulling / Pickup Hustle

Past two daygame sessions and my attitude towards anything pickup related have been lucidly applying the hallucinogenic dream I had on Sunday about how "rejection is mileage". My logs will be including more information on various streaks of "x girls running away to get me the 1 girl who giggles incessantly from me showering her in compliments", "x dates who flaked/nopulled to get me 1 pull" etc. This provides a lot of value for anyone just starting cold approach because actively realizing this mindset very early on is absolutely fundamental.

Daygame
11/15: 5/25
This would be a normal session in most places but it's a "rejection tilt" on a campus lol.
mileage highlight: 4 girls in a row accelerated away and then I got a hyper receptive girl sitting down studying at Target like "omg im stressing out for my exam and u coming up to me made my day <3<3<3 xoxoxo".

I also did a bunch of random dicey approaches for the lolz since I hadn't done any in a while (I actually don't remember what they were exactly now). I realized that deliberately doing "hard approaches" just for the sake of it is pretty pointless if you don't have approach anxiety anymore. Wasn't sure why at the time but I realized why in today's session.

I also opened a waitress at a restaurant who was hyper giggly and cute after I complimented her. I even talked to her a bit more to get her logistics for the week and setup a date. But when I tried to get her number she "forgot", told me to write my number on a receipt and she'd get back to me later. She didn't. Solid +BSU here (I didn't count it as an exchange, it's a rejection).

--

11/16: ~30 approaches, 7#, 2 dates setup
mileage highlight: 7-8 girls scurried off, ignored me, or were otherwise completely cold when I approached them. Then I got a girl who was hyper giggly and adorable so just I started just showering her in a lot of compliments and she responded by acting even more giggly and cute. I literally was getting turned on during this approach the whole time and walked away with a boner. I was actually hitting myself afterwards for not asking her if we should just go chill at her place right then for an instapull instead of deferring her for a date (she said she was on her way home) (I also literally had a date in 15 minutes). Literally getting another boner writing about this right now, no homo.

I went like 4#/5 at first when I realized I was making a bunch of pointless exchanges. All 4 of these girls were telling me that they're so busy and that they wouldn't be free for e.g. 2 weeks, but out of formality I was asking for their number anyway.

After having 2 dates this weekend (almost 3 if I didn't cancel on the girl), and lucidly realizing "rejection is mileage", I found that I craved more mileage for dates. I want to absorb all of the flakes, no pulls, and no hookups now and the only way to do that is to figure out a way to get "high-volume dates"

So from my 6th approach onwards, after suggesting we meet up for donuts "sometime", I decided to actively screen hard for dates by asking girls their plans for the week and set up a date on the spot. The contact exchange is a mere means to keep in touch after we had already made plans to meet up.

I've come to realize contact exchanges mean jack shit, and they're actually overemphasized as the metric for "positive outcomes" in approach. This is pellucidly obvious to me from going 1/~100 for date/contacts in Nashville (value is that it's retardedly easy to get a girl's number, but it means nothing if your approach interaction sucks) and 3/41 up until this weekend in Austin (approach interaction improved, but I was still merely suggesting that we meet up for donuts during the approach and just taking her number). The date I cancelled on Sunday was actually an approach I setup the date on the spot (just from winging it), and I did the same with the waitress yesterday.

So as I said earlier, I decided just to setup the date on every approach where I'm already talking to the girl and I like her. I ejected from nearly every interaction without going for an exchange where the girl made a bunch of excuses where she's busy or even if she genuinely had plans for e.g. "the next 2 weeks". Even before this, I realized I was just putting busy girls' logistics in their contact tagline in my phone (e.g. "busy next week", "free 11/28", etc). So really this part of the session was more like 3#/25 or so. The only exchange I took where I didn't set up a date was from a girl who told me a specific date she'd be ready. One of the other girls actually asked me for my number after I setup the date with her.

Some guys have talked about trying setting up dates on the spot, only to find that the girl flakes. I see this as another form of mileage that needs to take place. I haven't seen anyone else try it consistently over many hundreds of approaches, so it's going to be my approach strategy for a while now to see what the road looks like. I contend that fewer numbers will ghost and you completely avoid getting messages over text where the girl talks about how she's e.g. "so happy you approached her but she realized she's not looking for a relationship". That's not to say the amount of girls who are in that situation magically reduces, I've just decided I'm going to transfer those rejections to the approach interaction itself rather than over text. Likewise, text is just a means to send a confirmation text and keep in touch minutes before the date before you actually meet up.

I noticed the girls whom I approached also changed. No longer did I just approach anyone who was "maybe alright" just for volume, I was approaching only girls I actually would like to spend time with on a date (in other words, my standards increased). The campus has pretty good volume so I can get away with this (I still did the same number of approaches I've been doing lately). I also ejected out of girls just immediately blowing me off that they're in a hurry instead of pushing for an exchange (which is something I often did in Nashville, fewer times in Austin. you can get contacts this way if you're pushy, but there's nearly no value in grabbing these numbers). And I wasted less time doing "ballsy approaches" that looked like I couldn't even have a prolonged (2-3 minute) conversation in the first place.

The only reason I don't push for instadates (I suggest them on approaches) is because I have terrible instadate logistics (my place is a 5-10 minute drive from the campus, and I actually don't believe that instadates and regular dates are the same). I push for the date though. I know top practitioners in the world go for instadates but I think the situation is different on a college campus (especially if you're not a student) or just some street approaches. I can't articulate why exactly right now because I have no experience, so I want to just experiment. Yeah, I made out with a girl in a classroom in Nashville from an instadate (who would have gone on to tell me she's not looking for anything because she was already in a relationship over text later (since she did)), but I'm not sexual enough yet to figure out how to pull something like that off consistently yet. So I'm going to settle for dates and try to get something out of that for potentially more experience.

I also expect to get an extremely low hookup/date ratio for a while because I don't really know how to give off a "sexual vibe" yet on approaches. But at least getting a lot of dates will get me closer to that. I talked about this a little bit with Manganiello, but the fact that they're cold approach dates and not from online also means the conversion rate will be a potentially be lot lower than OLD dates (since I think it's much harder to screen for sex on an approach and just complimenting girls and them being open for meeting up on a date can come off as just being friendly, or let in more girls looking for a slow-paced relationship). For now I'll have to just handle it and screen it out during the date. Lately I'm just noting certain behaviors from women who are unreceptive at any stage and seeing whether there are potential points I'll use to just straight up eject out of the date in the future, but I'll probably just let stuff happen for the most part for a while instead of ejecting too quickly as a means for collecting more data.

Expect to see a much lower exchange rate and potentially fewer approaches even in certain sessions. I see approach as the gasoline to fill the date automobile right now. You can't overfill the tank.

Date Schedule
Wednesday 7pm - met 11/15
Thursday 6pm - met 11/14 at night
Friday 7pm - met 11/11. girl I cancelled on still wants to meet up???????
Saturday 5pm - met 11/16
Sunday 2pm - met 11/16

Date
??yo japanese phd student met on 11/11 - dont know her age because when i asked she wouldn't tell me, i think she's actually older than i. i joked about it and was like "secret!" like how all japanese girls say when they're bsing you
declines hug at cafe, eat donuts and talk for 15-20 minutes, brought up dating in japan but she says she doesn't know much about it, declined music pull like "so this is how dating works in america?", go to food mart
i get water and then i start to take her to my place but she's like i live the other way. i push 2-3x to go towards my place so I'm like lol ok I'll walk with you just to see if she'll let me in her place.
she asks me if i've been going around hitting on girls
I'm like yeah I like meeting new people
I was just like yeah lol
anyway while we're walking she asks me how many girlfriends I've had
I'm like a lot (not true lmao)
why'd you break up with them?
i was just like sometimes she didn't like me and sometimes I didn't like her
anyway we walk to a bus stop
and I'm like "we're going to your place by bus?"
she's like yeah. but the entire date was in japanese though so after the date i actually realized i just said バスで帰る？ (lit. "going home by bus")
and she probably took that as me asking her if she goes home by bus. probably should have been like 俺らバスで帰る？ (lit. "we're going home by bus?") or something. in japanese you can often omit the subject from the sentence so that's why in my head i thought i was asking if we're going to your place by bus. potentially if she gave too much pushback i would have definitely ejected at this point (or at least waited until we got on the bus and maybe been more pushy).
anyway I'm like ok and get on the bus for free somehow. but the bus driver makes a big deal that i'm not wearing a mask, refuses to drive the bus, and i have to ask him 3 times for a mask because he keeps whining so much about it. he's like "why don't you have your mask" "can you just give me a mask" "you know you're supposed to be wearing a mask right" "just give me a mask" *finally gives me a mask and starts fucking driving* (first time it's ever happened to me in america, no one requires masks here and probably only 30% of people wear them). let's make a big deal about a guy not wearing a mask but not care that he literally just walked in the bus without paying.
she asked "is it ok that you're on the bus with me?" im like "yeah". i think that's when i realized my japanese mistake from earlier lol.
then we end up going to the uni and we walk for maybe 50 feet and she's like "don't come any further" i'm like "i thought we were going to your place" she's like no. i push it maybe 2-3x and then just say bye and walk home (only like a 10-15 min walk)

Value from this date is that this hyper unreceptive girl was a result of me having an 8 minute pull no resistance on my previous date. I chatted with someone about "-BSU" and being pushy vs true unreceptiveness. He said that he'll do something light like touch the girl's back or put his arm around the girl at the start of the date and if she jumps away he literally walks out, I'm still extremely new to dates (this was literally the 6th date of my whole life), but I at least decided next time a girl isn't going to let me give her a hug at the beginning of the date, I'm literally just going to walk out on the spot. Let's dress up and come all the way for a date and then not hug the guy so he can waste our time.
 
No approach session today. Was going to do work but all I can think about is doing pickup so I got distracted.

Also my text conversations have been getting soupier and soupier from deregulation because all I care about is logistics and I know how I approach now seems to have a decent approach->date conversion rate so I'm like, yeah we're going to meet at this time at this place. Just an observation. Not saying it's good or bad. I was actually more excited about realizing this in a text exchange I had with a girl than the date I was about to go on. Like I almost cared zero about the date I was actually about to go, and lacroix and I were eating Chick-Fil-A <1 hour before the date.

date report - ??yo (didn't ask) black girl
she shows up at 7:08pm, I show up maybe at 7:18pm. hug, donuts, talk. music pull no resistance in probably 12 minutes. I'm like what the fuck I'm about to get trolled so hard right now by the daygame gods.
surely enough we leave the shop and immediately she's like actually my parking expires at 7:45. I'm like move your car. She's like I actually have to go study. I'm like well come back to my place anyway until like 8:30 or something I have work to do. She's like "can I take a raincheck?" I should have pushed more here but instead I accidentally tried to screen for +macro by being like, well do you want to meet up again? She's like yeah sure.
Exit food mart and walk over in the direction to my place. she asks me what i was doing at target by campus when i met her, i was like i was shopping and then we talk about that. at the corner of the block of my place, she's like here's my car. I'm like nah come back to my place for a bit and push maybe 2x here. i decide to accidentally screen for +macro again by being like ok lets arrange to meet up again. she's like oh i'm leaving for thanksgiving next week. i end up being like "when are you back" "dec 3" "ok maybe we can meet that weekend, damn thats far out". i end up just hugging her and she leaves.

I could have been way pushier honestly. also im tired of eating donuts every fucking day lmao

I'm kind of forseeing my trajectory with dates similar to how I was approaching in Nashville. That is, I basically spam approached in Nashville and my contacts were all junk. Somehow I have dates lined up for the next 4 days, but I have a feeling 2 of these dates are going to be junk (not even real mileage), like they're "spam dates". The reason is because before yesterday, I was pretty much approaching anyone I thought was mildly attractive and didn't really feel much for the girl, even if they were friendly and nice. And a lot of my openers to these girls were congruently pretty half assed and perhaps even came off platonically. Like "yeah you're cute, like as kind of a cute friend". Having a short conversation with them meant they were like "alright I want to hang out with this guy, he seems friendly", which is obviously *not* what I'm looking for.

I have like a sample size of 1 for this but I remember the 8 minute pull girl whom I cuddled and made out with on Sunday was the same girl I incidentally felt something "special" for in the moment when I approached and my opener ended up being pretty crazy ("i saw u skate by me and time stopped and my heart was throbbing" or something). I mentioned it again when I met her at the donut shop and pretty much the rest of the conversation was friendly. I think I got congruently got the physical experience that I wanted (initially cuddly and physical and feeling her up but I somehow felt I couldn't go all the way). It was like, the approach and date were 15% sexual, and I got like 15% of an experience. Guys can I say I got 3/20ths of a lay now??????????????

This trajectory *may* change though since last session I decided I want to approach girls specifically whom I want to go on a date with, and consequently the actual girls whom I approached changed. I'll mention this for the 10th time but I literally got aroused on my last approach. So I wonder what my dates will be like in the coming weeks (although I'm prepared for running into a dry spell due to the upcoming Thanksgiving weekend).
 
Had a nightgame session with lacroix where we tried to work on our own things through drills. He had already talked about what he did in his log.

I wasn't just out to do approaches, but actually get laid.

Nightgame for me has just been an outlet for a while to push my own audacity and confidence. I was often doing things like opening random Asian girls in Japanese and getting called racist for the lolz, to pushing 20x on girls who said they're "girlfriends" to makeout in front of me (which sometimes worked). I also started going more nuts on the dance floor and random girls would pull me to dance with them. I'd also get girls to dance with me. I tried going for makeouts but got deflected from all roughly 5~10 attempts ([probably not enough over maybe a total of ~60 night approached up until today). Of course, a healthy share of ass grabbing and grinding and titty rubbing.

I think I realized my night "audacity" basically maxxed out when this girl I was dancing with lied that some random guy was her boyfriend. Told her to go kiss him for 1 second and I'd get the fuck out of there. Declined like 7-8x and her friend said they're girlfriends. I was like nahhhh I believe that's your boyfriend but you can't say this is your girlfriend now. Kept just pushing for her to kiss the random dude. Also pushed her to kiss me. She was like "I'm going to the bathroom" and like walked into the door for 2 seconds and came back out. She went near the guy she claimed to be her boyfriend, but obviously he wasn't. I pushed them to kiss maybe 3x. I should have told the guy that he's going to get a makeout what does he have to lose but I didn't think of it at the time. Anyway at some point I was tired of this so I told the girl she should just tell me she's not interested in me instead of lying that some random dude is her boyfriend and I would have left. She completely switches to anger and finally comes clean about it and pushed me away. I leave lol.

The above experience was honestly an example of how I was just using nightgame as an outlet. Like yeah, I'm gonna go away if you just tell me you're not interested but don't lie to me about it. I basically got off to pushing someone to the max about it until I forced them to tell me the truth. Not saying anyone should do this, it was just my outlet.

The above interaction made me realize that my confidence is basically 90%+ of where it needs to be and I no longer need to act like a retarded asshole to prove anything to myself.

This made me think about what I wanted to do next. Now that I don't have anxiety, what can I do from here? Troy suggested that I need to have a "sexual vibe", but as someone who has literally no experience, this is almost impossible. I have some ideas I'm experimenting with but I'll talk about what worked in future logs.

Anyway, back to last night. Another thing I want to learn is how to get vulnerable with girls. I only have trouble with it because I literally don't know how to. Being secure with your insecurities is a real form of confidence. lacroix suggested I should tell a girl that I'm a virgin, without it coming off as some scheme or tactic to get her to like me. So we figured that would involve me having to isolate a girl in the first place.

I wasn't counting my approaches but I ended up doing around 35+ I think. Most night approached are deflections in like <4 seconds so getting through those requires some work. And then majority of the interactions end up dying out after ~2 minutes because the friend shows up to "steal" the girl.

I had a bit of a toxic frustration about friends pulling away "my girl". I was like "I want to just get rid of the friend". But tonight, I decided to level with the friends who were trying to pull away the girl I was talking to with something like "hey I really like your friend, I wanted to talk to her". I don't think I convinced a single friend to stop pulling her away, but at least I made that stage zero attempt for now.

I also tried isolating girls but I was like 0/3 on that. Definitely need more volume.

I need to really learn night calibration so I'm open to any tips.
 
I seem to recall GLL had something about isolating a girl or winning the friends over. Don't remember where. But it might be worth the look.
 
Man, I wish we could nightgame together one night so I could show you how I amp up sexuality in-set. It took me a long time to get as well. It's so, so, hard to describe through text, and even harder to read and imagine because it involves so many different elements coming together at once:

- "soft eyes" and strong eye contract
- confident smirk
- immediate physical contact, "babystepping" if needed to figure out what she's comfortable with
- strong tonality
- sexual verbals, whispering in her ear if needed so her friends don't hear

Obviously most of these things you're doing only if you're receiving positive signals from the girl.

There's no need to get vulnerable with a girl unless she's a comfort girl and you already have her isolated. Assuming you're doing the above and she's into it you should be trying to move her within the venue within two minutes.

P.S. I wrote this in my log today, but I think the optimal way to open groups and almost never get blown away by the friends is to open the friends first, THEN the target. Especially open the guys, complimenting them, then move on to the girl friends, then tease your target so it's clear who you're going after.
 
pancakemouse said:
immediate physical contact, "babystepping" if needed to figure out what she's comfortable with
Click to expand...
Nearly every girl I open at night involves putting my arm around her or having my palm on her shoulder or something (touching her skin etc). Used to have mad physical contact anxiety but now it's muscle memory haha.

pancakemouse said:
open the friends first, THEN the target. Especially open the guys, complimenting them, then move on to the girl friends, then tease your target so it's clear who you're going after.
Click to expand...
Thanks I'll try this. I thought pandering to the friends before the girl I wanted to open was needy but I guess it's effective at night?
 
Just to summarize my previous log to maybe make what I said more concise and easier to give advice for:

I pretty much have absolutely zero anxiety at night now. Whether it's on the approach or even prolonging an interaction out as long as I want to (several minutes). But since I've never been a guy who goes out at night, my "night intelligence" is extremely low. So it's a matter of not knowing what to do rather than not being able to do it.

Some actionable steps I'm working on:
- Talking to the friends in the group of the girl I'm trying to hook up with, in an honest and a non-adversarial way
- Actually asking/trying to take the girl to a quieter place. I have a very small sample size and not much success. Also getting to this point means plowing through x girls who will barely let me get past "hey" or start dancing with them in the first place.
 
colgate said:
I literally got 1 non instadate out of probably 400+ approaches in that city), because I only did "high volume" without improving other aspects of my approach. My friend in Austin who used to live in Nashville was approaching only 50~100 girls a week and got laid probably with 60 girls in a year from approach there.
Click to expand...

One thing I really want to know about.
And honestly want to see you go into more detail is what "improving other aspects of my approach" was.

- What were those things specifically?
- what's the difference between then and now? And what are the examples?
- how did you go about changing it?

I'm saying this for purely selfish reasons cuz I'm trying to emulate how you improved your conversions.

The change in your contacts to dates has been absolutely incredible.

So honestly you outlining this would help a lot of other people as well.
 
Manganiello I'll outline this in a future post. A lot of my dates were probably junk (like my junk contacts) because I just screened in girls who wanted to be friends and not enough for sex. I'm starting to invite girls for drinks or coffee (if under 21) instead of donuts but I need more data on that before I can write anything of value.

All I can say is having 2-3 minute conversations with girls on the approach and talking about taking them out for e.g. drinks helped, rather than going for the contact in 20-30 seconds. Also I don't act ultra pushy as much anymore.

EDIT:
You want to be real with a girl you're talking to. Girls already know when you're hitting on them, whether it's directly or indirect and being "indirect" in some way is basically an automatic turnoff as far as I can tell. I mention this because it's something I've talked about earlier in my log: projecting your genuine energy in your current emotional state during your approaches, whatever it is in the moment. Here's that post: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=23546#p23546

I think recently I've been able to do this without consciously thinking to do it.
 
Manganiello said:
I seem to recall GLL had something about isolating a girl or winning the friends over. Don't remember where. But it might be worth the look.
Click to expand...

Day 45 audio. Worth it.
https://www.goodlookingloser.com/anxiety/program-index/approach-anxiety-program-week-6
 
LORD COLGATE

HE DOES NOT BEND, HE DOES NOT BREAK

Keep hammering brother, me and TImmy will see you in London next year. I will have slayed my dragon a hell of a lot by then.

MAC
 
Some of my log posts, and probably more of the ones to come, are things I wish I could have made known to my 16-20 year old self. If I could rewind time and make him aware of what reality is, it would change the course of his life. But I can’t do that, so writing about it retroactively is the only thing I can do. This is one of those.

When I was around 16 years old, I asked a female friend to be my girlfriend. She told me she'd give me an answer after school ended. So I waited outside the hall by her classroom where we'd usually meet up to hang out. I waited until school ended and then she didn't come to our usual spot. Confounded, and for whatever reason, I decided to wait for another hour. Somehow, even at that time, I knew she exited out the other end of the hallway, but part of me had this hope that she would magically appear and say yes. Or maybe at least she'd appear and tell me no. I think much later over text, she told me no, though we still hung out since we were friends (but it didn't last very long). This experience has stuck with me for a long time (mainly because I think I'd only asked maybe 3 girls out in my life at that point).

I wasn't actively thinking about that experience when I went out tonight, but I approached a bartender who was cleaning some tables tonight with cuddly frizzy hair. I was straight up showering her in compliments and playing with her hair and nuzzling into it and she was giggling and acting receptive. I even straight up told her I just want to cuddle this hair and fall asleep on it. I asked her to meet up later tonight and she said to come back around closing (2 am). We exchanged, and I decided just to indulge in the brief moment I interacted with her for the rest of the night. I think I only did one approach with Troy and lacroix after meeting up with them later for fun.

Taking rejections is standard and extremely easy when girls just instantly blow you off. You hadn't even invested more than 10-45 seconds into it, who cares? Maybe you'll exchange and she'll ghost you. Who cares, you have hundreds of other contacts in your phone. Maybe she'll ghost mid-text conversation. Who cares, you have some other girls who do actually agree to meet up with you for a date. We can go on down the line and talk about how much we don't care about girls ghosting farther and farther down the interaction.

As I was walking down the street, I was thinking, either this is going to be some magical experience where I somehow waited it out for 3+ hours and she still met up afterwards, or this is going to be one of the hardest rejections I'll be dealing with since I started approaching, mainly from a point of actually having to invest more than a few minutes into it, having no other options available, handling that, not getting "sad", and moving on. That is to say, I deliberately decided to hold out and be singularly obsessed with this one girl for a few hours, just to spike the potential "blowback" of the rejection that might happen, and then be forced to handle it.

I went back around 2 am, and she walked back in from somewhere and touched my chest on the way back in. I'm like alright. I waited out for around another hour, ate a gyro and chatted with some friends and random people on the street. I got bored after an hour and still saw her inside, so I just sent her a text to hit me up when she's done with work. She replies instantaneously with "K." I'm like, wow she actually responded? Alright. I go home and chill for a bit.

She never responded for the rest of the night.

Maybe I'll re-approach her when I see her again. Maybe she'll respond tomorrow. Who knows? Doesn’t really matter. I’ll probably experiment with this one and see what happens and how her reactions change over time. Or I’ll get banned from that bar for harassing her and her cuddly hair.

Many guys, especially those inexperienced with women, put things like “destiny” on a pedestal. We’ll over-invest in a single girl because she’s “so special” to us. I’m of the belief that women simply don’t operate this way, and neither she nor the universe cares about how “special” your encounter was with her. If anything, you’re just another guy out of the many who has come up to her in some way. So for your own sake, it’s best not to inflate how “deep” the “connection” was with a girl. It doesn’t matter to her and it shouldn’t matter to you. The girl you sometimes hang out with in your class just sees you as perhaps a fun person to chat with now and then, and if you haven’t somehow already made it more obvious to her that you want something more, then be prepared for a reality check when she starts talking to other guys and even dating them. And maybe you already realized that, and you did something to try to take things a step further. She’s probably not going to want to take things further with you, and it can be extremely painful to see you two go from spending lots of time together to zero over a short period of time.

If you want the woman who will give you the relationship you desire, trying to increase the “quality” of the interaction can only take you so far. This is actually empowering because it frees you from a single girl. In other words, you should be talking to *multiple* women and searching for the one who’s willing to give you the relationship you desire, rather than trying to mould a single woman into being your “one true love” and that you’ll live “happily ever after”. The girl whom you’re so singularly invested in will happily never talk to you again if she’s not interested, and that is often out of your control. As the male, you cannot get “sad” about it, and if you want to be happy you must move on and talk to more girls.
 
colgate said:
When I was around 16 years old, I asked a female friend to be my girlfriend. She told me she'd give me an answer after school ended. So I waited outside the hall by her classroom where we'd usually meet up to hang out. I waited until school ended and then she didn't come to our usual spot. Confounded, and for whatever reason, I decided to wait for another hour. Somehow, even at that time, I knew she exited out the other end of the hallway, but part of me had this hope that she would magically appear and say yes. Or maybe at least she'd appear and tell me no. I think much later over text, she told me no, though we still hung out since we were friends (but it didn't last very long). This experience has stuck with me for a long time (mainly because I think I'd only asked maybe 3 girls out in my life at that point).
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this. I actually felt the disappointment.
 
Daygame
Sunday 11/21:
2#/15~20
mileage highlight: First 15+ approaches were just clean rejections. No aggressive or instant deflections, just normal ones. Then some latina with a nice body agrees on the approach to meet me up for drinks later that night since she happened to be going to 6th street anyway (but she ghosted when I contacted her later, through text and a call).

The next approach was probably the diciest approach interaction I've ever had so far. It looked like a normal trio, but then I saw them join a larger group of like 8+ people. In addition, I accidentally bumped into one of the other girls in the group when they suddenly stopped in front of me. Decided to persist and open the girl I originally was targeting. She awkwardly inches away at each thing I say. Some friend from the 8+ group interjects with "how old are you?" I say 25. "well she's [!@)@!(&%@*(!]"

Approach after that was where lacroix saw some cute asian girl, ultra my type, working inside an ice cream shop and dared me to open her.
https://streamable.com/4cm9kb
Didn't buy any ice cream. Had to wait 2-3 minutes for some guy to order ice cream before I approached. Then both employees went inside. I went up to the counter and a male employee came out. Told him I wanted to speak to the girl. He brings her out and she says she's actually the manager. We have a short chat and then I ask her out for drinks. She says she's 19 and asks how old I am. I say 25. She's like uhhhhhh.......I say yeah, we can grab a coffee that's fine. Exchanged and told me "we can hang out some time" (which I attach zero meaning to). Post I wrote last night is extremely relevant to this approach (that experience happened after this one chronologically). Just need to make sure I avoid singularly investing in girls, even though deep down I still want to.

Monday 11/22:
7#/25 + 1 instadate
I did this session on zero sleep. First time I've ever done that. Just channeled whatever crazy tired energy I had into the approaches and straight up told like 3-4 girls I was so tired during the interaction.

Every girl whom I exchanged with said they were going home for Thanksgiving, but I decided just to exchange anyway and maybe text them next week. I'm already approaching so no point in not exchanging I guess.

Instadate was a total accident. I approached some Chinese girl sitting at a table playing with her phone with a finished tea.
"hey I saw you sitting here and I thought you were cute"
"...?? you can sit here yes"
"huh? I said you were cute"
"????"
"I came up to you to tell you were cute"
"I don't give my telephone number to strangers"
"whoa, you're like 10 steps ahead of me!!! alright, let me grab a tea and sit with you"

Order my tea, go sit with her and chat. At first we chat in dumbass English for 5 or so minutes but she gets used to the flow. It's basically just question->answer->question->answer the entire time. Said she's a graduate student studying electrical engineering. My tea takes like 10 minutes but finally it arrives. I come back and sip it for a bit. Ask what she's doing for the rest of the day. She tells me she's free for the rest of the day, so I just ask her "you wanna just walk around outside?" and we bounce.

My intention now is to just walk her 8 blocks to my car and see what happens. On the way I tell her we can go chill at my place and listen to some music. She's like "oh, I have class at 4pm and then I have to meet my supervisor at 5pm." Solid, she was free until I put the idea in her head that we're going to my place. I tell her "look it's 3:15 right now, my place is a 5 minute drive from here and I can have you back by 3:50 so you're not late for class". She declines so I'm like alright. Here, I basically just had the intention of continuing to walk to my car and trying to see if she'll come with me.

I also asked her if she's in town this week and if she wants to meet up for drinks. She at first tells me she doesn't drink alcohol, and then I say we can just go get coffee instead. Later, I bring the idea up again and she's like "I only drink alcohol with female friends". Interesting lol.

But about 3 blocks away from my car, she's like "let's go that way to this other building and hang out" I tell her that we should go to my place and listen to music instead. She says let's go to that building instead. <- I think in retrospect at this point I should have just ended the date and exchanged here, but I just wanted to see where we would go next. But I think I'm using "what will happen next" as an excuse to not "burn the bridge", especially since deep down, I'm fantasizing that classroom makeout I had nearly 2 months ago back in Nashville where the girl pulled me into the classroom. I need to accept that something like that is a once in a lifetime experience and I was extremely lucky that it somehow happened within ~250 lifetime approaches. I need to do what I want to do now, push when I can, and then burn the bridge just before I'm entering the girl's "frame".

I end up going to that building and there's a lot of people so after probably <5 minutes I'm like yeah okay that was a waste of time. She tells me maybe 1 or 2 times if I'm bored I can leave. So we end up exchanging and I leave.


This "accidental" instadate made me realize that in my current situation, instadates are actually basically the same as regular dates. I was making excuses that I wouldn't be able to pull, and regular dates are somehow better. For some people that might be the case, but after going on 4-5 dates last week and then having this instadate, I realized that regardless of when I met the girl, she's going to see me in the same way. Her interaction with me has wholly been my approach up until the date (insta or regular), so there's no difference for me right now. This is something Mike Mehlman talks about here: https://mikemehlman.net/2021/11/08/focus-of-daygame-should-be-pushing-for-instadates/ but I didn't realize it myself until I actually had some regular dates where I have A+ pull logistics. Whether my place is literally 1 block away or a 5 minute drive, the girl's resistance to my pull attempts doesn't change.

I also have a couple options of pulling on campus. It can be my place, my car, or even her place on campus. I can just wing it depending on the interaction. Also, I can screen a girl's logistics for the day before proposing the instadate during the approach to make sure we would have enough time before deferring to a regular date and exchanging.

I'm excited to approach now with this renewed focus on instadates. Unfortunately, the school session is going to end within 1 or 2 weeks so I have little time. But I can still get a decent amount of sessions to get mileage and meet new girls.

Another thing I need to keep in mind is that my focus is sleeping with the girl. Not kissing her, not cuddling her, sleeping with her. As you can often see in my log, I get too excited and satiated with "sub-milestones" that don't actually achieve my end goal.

Just to note, I stopped trying to arrange concrete future date plans on the approach, and now the need to do that has dissolved. The ghost/cancel rate isn't somehow better with making plans in advance. But I still ask what they're doing that week just to get a general idea of their logistics and when a good time to text them to make plans would be.



Later that day, lacroix is eating at a restaurant again where I opened a waitress and she (obviously) ghosted: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24002#p24002. I've never deliberately re-approached a girl so I just wanted to do it. I go up to her and start chatting for 30 seconds, and her white knight beta cuck manager shows up and tells her "hey can you help me with something" to save her from me eventually pulling her to my place someday. Alright, alright. Well deliberate re-approach is off of my bucket list.
 
Daygame
Total: 5#/15
Low volume at the campus because it's Thanksgiving week.

First approach told me she was going home for Thanksgiving (or so I gleaned) but later she texted me unprompted (I only text my name on the approach so they have it) like "sorry for getting back to u so late! today just happened to be the day i was moving back home :)" I still don't know if she is actually moving but I texted back "when are you coming back?" just to confirm if she literally meant moving from Austin, with no response so far. It's like let's text this guy we would have otherwise ghosted if we didn't have some logistical impossibility of meeting up.

Also was tailing this girl for like 3 minutes loudly talking about pickup with Troy. Much later after we lost her, we saw her walk into a bar. I walked in, with no intent of buying anything, and then opened her. Troy walked in later and hung out at the bar. She told me she had a boyfriend basically instantly so I left. Troy stayed for another minute or so and then also left. Apparently the bartender was telling the girl "you don't really have a boyfriend, huh?" She was like "no! I really do have a boyfriend, I thought him coming up to me was so cute!" Bartender said that some guy approached her some days ago. Apparently lacroix and I have been making a dent on the campus haha (not sure if it was he or if I approached her and she forgot who I was).

Date
Girl I approached in a trio earlier today agreed to meet for drinks tonight. She literally told me she's leaving tomorrow so I was like "well how about for your last night we meet up for some drinks".
I showed up 5 minutes before she did and ordered a drink for myself. But I saw her friends walk in with her, and I'm like "I'm about to walk out of here right now". But to my surprise, her friends ditched her to go to another part of the bar and let us be alone. So I decided just to roll with it instead of almost immediately walking.
She grabbed a shot and we talked for maybe 20 minutes. We were talking a lot about alcohol, and then I transitioned into talking about drugs and exes. I decided to try to pull with "well I've got some Absolut Watermelon at my place, let's go there". She declined with "I don't want to go back with you, my friends are here looking for my safety" and I'm like alright. Chatted some more and then talked about music. Went for the Mongolian pop pull, and declined again. I immediately decide, "well introduce me to your friends". This decision was to see what they were like and bounce everyone to another place (I could have perhaps bounced her without them). So we went to another place across the street for some more drinks.
At this point, I'm like yeah there's no way she'll pull so I'll just get physical with her so I can get some scraps out of the date. It was conveniently louder (next time if I have to bounce a girl to another bar, I'm going to go to some loud bar so I can really escalate). Throughout the interaction I was basically fondling her thigh and having my arm around her. At some point her friends show up and tell me "guys our parents called (not hers), we should get going" In my head, I'm like looooool they came to save her.
We walk towards the direction of my place. Right outside my door I try to pull one last time. I tell her "here's my place right here, let's go". She declines.
Conversation outside my door goes something like this:
me: "Look, you're literally leaving tomorrow. There's no second chances in life. You'll never have a chance to see me again. I really want to spend more time with you tonight. We're not going to do anything."
her: "Yeah well my friends and I have to go, but I really want to see you next time I come to Austin"
me: "Alright, well if you want to see me again, you'll have to text me when you come back to Austin"
her: "Yeah, I'll text you again!"
me: "You say that, but I know what's going to happen. You're not going to text me. I'll send you a text later and then you'll ignore it."
her: "No I promise I won't ignore you! I'll text you when I'm back in Austin again!"
Hug her and tell her "let's kiss" (probably could have gone for it without saying, I really need to stop telling girls I'm going to kiss them because it never works. Kiss anxiety lol). She tells me I can kiss her cheek, so I do. Try to go for the lips and she pulls away. Then I walk inside my apartment and they leave.


So I think I was sufficiently forward for the most part on this date and didn't screw anything up (let me know if I did). I say this because if I did everything on my part, then this is actually a mileage date (e.g. there's nothing I could have done to get her back at my place, and hopefully coming up I'll have another pull). I don't think at any point I "blew an opportunity".

Nightgame
Went out for maybe 20-30 minutes with lacroix. Find a really cute and short late 30s-40s latina chick dancing with her friends in the back. Immediately say what's up and start dancing with her. Lots of ass grabbing and grinding. Also chatted with her friends and kept complimenting her to her and her friends about how cute she was. At some point one friend tells me "okay you've spent enough time with her, she's good" I tell her that I really like your friend and I think she's cute, and basically blow her off and continue. Another friend tells me I'm shaking my ass more than the girl is.
Later she leaves to go buy a drink at the bar. I follow her and ask her to come back with me instead. I think I keep immediately telling girls at night to come back to my place which is probably uncalibrated, I should just bounce them outside instead without telling them and then lead them to my place. Anyway she declines so I'm just like "give me your number" and then I keep groping her ass while we're exchanging.
I tell lacroix I forgot to pull (I forgot I actually tried to haha), so he literally pushes me back into the bar and forces me to make a pull attempt (again). She's like hugging her friend and not responding to me and her friends say "she shouldn't be having any more drinks" so I just leave. Kind of pointless but just did it for the lolz.
 
colgate said:
Daygame
Total: 5#/15
Low volume at the campus because it's Thanksgiving week.

First approach told me she was going home for Thanksgiving (or so I gleaned) but later she texted me unprompted (I only text my name on the approach so they have it) like "sorry for getting back to u so late! today just happened to be the day i was moving back home :)" I still don't know if she is actually moving but I texted back "when are you coming back?" just to confirm if she literally meant moving from Austin, with no response so far. It's like let's text this guy we would have otherwise ghosted if we didn't have some logistical impossibility of meeting up.
Click to expand...

This is normal. Girls will almost always do the most receptive-seeming thing if it's assured they won't be able to see you.

On Tinder, girls will soak in validation and dirty talk you all day when it's their last day in town and they know they can't meet. If a girl is oddly compliant, I will always take this as a cue to immediately probe for logistics.

Women thrive off attention, not (necessarily) sex.
 
Thanksgiving kind of punted some of my progress because school was out and girls were going home for the break. As an experiment, I texted all 13 of the contacts I had at the time "happy thanksgiving" (I deleted most of my contacts, maybe I shouldn't have, but it is what it is) as an experiment to see who would respond, and then who would follow through with a date. 6/13 responded back. Then, I texted all 13 earlier today my usual "what are you up to this week" and 4 of those ones responded. None of the girls who didn't respond to "happy thanksgiving" responded to "what are you up to this week". I set up a date with 1 of the girls, 1 of them deferred, 1 of them ghosted (for now) after declining drinks because she's under 21, and another one said she was lesbian. Let's say we're lesbian after 10+ messages of text and right after being proposed drinks and not during the approach lol.

Daygame/Nightgame
Friday 11/26:
day 0#/15, night 0/10~15
Haven't had a 0 day for daygame in a while but it was mileage (also I got out late so I didn't get to make as many approaches as I wanted to). Night was pretty standard, a few girls come up to me as I'm dancing, other times I make the initial approach. Girls scurried off at times ranging between me being in the vicinity to me grabbing their waist. Didn't get far enough in any interaction to go for a bounce.

I was totally plastered this night, and I hate being drunk. I'd also rather focus on daygame for a while so I'll probably not go out at night as much.

Sunday 11/28:
3#/10
Cut my session early because I realized I was devolving back into jumping for the close <1min on many approaches. I felt like I was schizzing out during interactions and just wanted to propose the date immediately. I know guys have different experiences with approach interaction length, but as I've talked about in my log, getting a girl's contact means jack shit if she doesn't even know who I am through at least some sort of 2-3 minute conversation (the result of my 20x increase in approach->date conversions).

I took the rest of the day to contemplate why despite being aware of the above and experiencing a week packed with dates, I started to go back into "spam" approaching.
Getting over approach anxiety actually is relatively easy because there are only three discrete outcomes of an approach: rejection, exchange, or instadate. The "worst" one is rejection, and it's not so bad to get over because you can just go talk to another girl.

Getting over "conversational anxiety" is a bit more complex. First of all, you still need to put the work in of going through many instant blowoffs. After x instant blowoffs, you'll get 1 girl who may be willing to have a conversation with you. Obviously if the girl is "hyper receptive", then you will probably be more motivated to have a continued conversation and enjoy talking to her (side note: she may seem "hyper receptive" but then when you go for the close she'll reject you then. but that's okay because you can just part ways and talk to another girl).

I emphasize may, because with many girls, it's not so clear cut as to whether she's willing to have a conversation. That is, unlike the approach itself, you don't have a couple of discrete possibilities; being able to initiate a conversation is more of a gradient. An instant blowoff is a hard no, a girl sitting around bored who's ecstatic when you go up to her is a hard yes. But there are many other situations where you're not really so sure. Maybe her responses are short. Maybe she's walking a little fast, but not accelerating away. Maybe she's with some friends. Maybe she's even acting awkward about it but still engaging you in a conversation. You're reading too much into "signals" from the girl, that you have the "right" to talk to her in the first place. In these situations, you end up just rushing for the date proposal + contact exchange quickly so you don't have to handle the uncertainty of knowing whether the girl is actually willing to talk to you. In other words, you "eject" early ("let's just jump to the close so we can be sure this is a rejection, or she'll give us her number and we can move on instead of sticking it out").

I've heard guys talk about doing short interactions because it makes you seem like "you're a busy man who doesn't want to take up her time". But in my case, my "short interactions" are more like lack of confidence to continue even a short conversation after an open.

A question Troy asked me which cuts through everything I mentioned above is "What reason(s) do girls have to sleep with you?" The whole point of even having a short conversation on the approach is you basically have to be able to show that you're confident and sexual enough for continued interaction to be worth it.

For me, I realized I have almost zero frame. I don't yet truly believe that there's any reason for a girl I approach to eventually sleep with me, mainly because I haven't done it yet. Beyond that, I haven't even established who I am as a person. That's why I'm letting light female resistance during an interaction get to me and I unintentionally try to cater to her or eject quickly.

The only reference I have to having somewhat of a solid frame and being able to push an interaction close to where I wanted it was the time I made out with a girl in the classroom back in Nashville. Leading up to that, I was finally starting to get more "aggressive" deflections (previously, most of the rejections I got felt like "pity" from girls who could tell I was hyper nervous and they would emotionally console me. seeing more of my rejections become aggressive made me feel like I was actually a "threat" and that girls knew that I knew what I was doing), got an initially unreceptive girl to exchange when I realized she was Japanese and switched languages, told this girl "today's the day to be more spontaneous" when she initially declined my instadate proposal, and had a ~1h date where I ended up coming off as some guy she could feel comfortable with. I know that was the case because she told me "I actually like that you're 25 and you have all this life experience" and she was the one who ended up "pulling" me into the classroom.

If I could be like that on more of my approaches, I'll start to see better results. I know I can do it, but I need to more consciously be aware of who I am and always tap into it, rather than just incidentally becoming temporarily confident after having some immediately prior experiences that surface positive aspects of my personality. I think essentially, I feel like my frame is transient so I need to make sure I'm zoned into it more at all times.

Monday 11/29:
2#/10~15 + 2 fake numbers, 0 ID
Experiment with this session was to deliberately prolong conversations as long as possible. This isn't something I plan on always doing because it's unnecessary but I did it to force myself out of my conversational comfort zone, and see what topics would arise. I also went into this session of the mindset that "I'm a spontaneous guy who darts around the country to many cities because I enjoy meeting new people and experiencing new places" (since that is literally what I'm doing). I managed to have like 7~10 minute conversations with some girls (some exchanged, some rejected), and this was valuable for me because now I can go back to 2~3 minute ones where I zone in on topics that arised from today's conversations. Doing this was helpful because then I can be genuinely engaged with the girl instead of just robotically asking questions that I don't care about and I'll have stuff to talk about that I'm interested in during the approach. In my case, I enjoy learning about places the girl has lived in and where she's traveled to, and crazy experiences she's had in other places.

Still having trouble maintaining charisma and not catering/ejecting when the girl isn't immediately receptive, and especially if she's lean unreceptive but not running off. Also, I feel like I'm preemptively trying to justify why I'm talking to her in the first place (mentioning unprompted, "yeah I was just strolling around here and saw you" "oh i'm not actually a student by the way", without her even asking about it). I think I haven't fully resolved one of my deepest issues with approach early on (3 months ago), which was feeling like I have the right to exist in this world, but I'll handle it. Will work on this next session by making my frame "I'm a spontaneous guy who darts around the country to many cities because I enjoy meeting new people and experiencing new places, and you're an attractive girl who's going to be part of my journey".

Date Schedule
Thursday 9pm - girl whom I literally remember zero about that I met on 11/16. my tagline was literally "biology, text in 2 weeks" so it's my fault. excited for my first blind date
 
I'm continually impressed at how self-reflective you are. It's a great trait.

Something I like to think about, similar to Troy's comment, is "What did this interaction look like from the girl's point of view? What would she tell the friend she's having dinner with later?"

For most of my numbers, I can find no real reason a girl would even text back, let alone sleep with me. There has to be premise. That means a longer interaction, things in common, investment, sexuality, etc.
 
pancakemouse said:
For most of my numbers, I can find no real reason a girl would even text back, let alone sleep with me. There has to be premise. That means a longer interaction, things in common, investment, sexuality, etc.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. For most of my numbers, I can say that I had good chemistry with girls and of course I'd hear back from them (spoiler alert: I don't). To be fair though, you're waaay more technical so I might miss something.

The more I approach, the more I realize "state" is all that matters. That's something I noticed before finding Mehlman, although his daily comments helped crystalize the principle.

I'm actually happy I no longer connect other parts of my self improvement (training, diet, business, style, communication skills, etc) with getting girls. I can imagine many guys putting in the time, energy, and money...and eventually getting frustrated when they don't see the results they expected.
 
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