colgate - High Volume Approaching & Pulling / Pickup Hustle

Beginning of this week was total shit. I basically spent the whole week going to bed super late, vaping my ass off, and jackin it way too much.

I actually rarely fapped before I joined the forums. Like my sex drive was pretty low and I didn't really jerk off more than 1-3x a month. I even went months at a time without masturbating.

But as I've said recently it's shot back up since I've started meeting girls and screwing up pulls over and over. I probably jerked off at least 20 times over January.

I realized this is just satiating myself without actually deserving it. I don't feel pissed off and aggressive enough during my approach sessions. I'm getting free dopamine hits for doing jack shit.

This also made me truly realize why nicotine is so bad. I've tried to quit a few times but didn't have any reason beyond "well it's better for my throat and my energy is more normal I guess". But the true evil of vaping is similar to fapping, you're just getting free dopamine hits for doing nothing.

I'm not here to be a nofap zealot as this is just my own progress log. But I came to all these conclusions about vaping, fapping, and dopamine because I literally spent Monday-Thursday in bed for 16+ hours (other than a hiking meetup on Wednesday), just vaping, jerking off, and reading group chats. And I didn't feel bad about it or motivated to get up because my body "felt fine" from all the excess dopamine, especially from the vape. I don't know the exact science but I think it's something like that. It's hard to grind and be pissed if you're satiating yourself with bursts of dopamine throughout the day.

To aid in quitting vaping, I've decided to just chow down candy every time I get a craving. I've had trouble going cold turkey without replacing the substance previously, but candy seems to fill in the "fix", at least regarding the flavor and oral fixation. But it doesn't give me a stimulating spike and I still feel irritated after eating candy, which is exactly the feeling I need to progress.

Daygame
Friday 02/04: 4#/25, 2 instadates, 0 pull. ~2.5h including instadates.

Sesh started off with the parking garage being fucking jammed and I couldn't get a spot for about 30 minutes. Combined with getting over my nicotine addiction, this put me in a very irritated mood, which is *exactly* what I need going forward.

Instadates
1 - first approach. girl was like 4'9", I was towering over her even at 5'5". It was fucking awesome. she was also super deadpan. She kind of was like "uhhh uhhh no...." when I pitched the instadate at a boba tea place, but I sensed her wavering and said "Let's go", completely ignoring the rejection. So she tagged along and started asking me questions.

waited 15+ mins for boba tea in packed shop while sitting next to each other on bench. I made chat but I should have physically escalated, not out of increasing chance she'll pull but because I need to do what I want. if anything i can screen more wastes of time out doing this. I'm still kind of nervous on instadates (as opposed to regular dates).

when she got her tea, she immediately ejected out of the store. I was like, great this is going to be a colossal waste of time. I got my tea and followed her into a neighboring bookstore. we continued to make small chat over the next 10 minutes or so as she randomly ejects and enters different stores. at first i ask her "what kind of movies do you like?" and she said "i don't watch movies" (indicator of waste of time), then went for music and talked about classical music and tried pulling with that 3x but no dice. at some point she ejected out of a store and I decided to stand still outside and watch her accelerate away without going for an exchange.

2 - chick declined ID but I spammed "just for 5-10 minutes" a few times and she agreed. at rice x yogurt place. Just standard basic convo, she's leaving for a 1+ week trip tomorrow. went for movie pull after 15-20 minutes, declined after some back and forths. here's an audio clip i started mid-instadate: https://www.sndup.net/jbc2/

Bonus content - chick changes trajectory into construction zone to "avoid talking to strangers". Yeah: https://www.sndup.net/vfzm/
 
Be prepared for a bunch of frustrated posts on this log lol (but that's good, I need the irritation and anger to drive forward).

Daygame
Saturday 02/05: 7#/60, 2 ID in 4.5h.

I approached the girl who'd become my second instadate of the day right in front of a duo who rejected me. She was hesitant to drink boba tea with me but she agreed after I pushed a few times. She didn't want boba tea, so I just got her a water. We made "deep conversation" over 10 minutes (I tried to model the conversation like my classroom instadate makeout here: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=21522#p21522 (edit: realize I didn't talk about that conversation in that log, but anyway...), getting into personal things about making friends, social life, and etc).

Rather than sitting down after I got my boba tea, I decided to walk around the mall with her for a bit. She kept saying stuff like "omg you've been giving me all this life advice I'm so thankful" blah blah. Anyway, I brought up the topic of music, and went for music pull to my car. No dice, we were still in the mall. I really wanted it, so decided to take another loop around the mall. I walked towards a movie theater like "let's go watch a movie". She was like....uhhh...no....idk....but she kept just following me. We discussed some movies and I looked at what was showing. Decided to say "these movies are all lame, I've got better ones at my place." We discussed some psychological thrillers and then went for movie pull a bunch of times at my place. She just kept following me so we ended up getting all the way to my car.

I said "let's go". She's like "...idk I have to stay here...my parents are still here (she's in university!!!!)" I just kept looping "Well it's 4:15 now, we can watch for a little bit and I'll bring you back by 5:15" like 5-6x. Was even about to steal setting an alarm idea from the "solving the girl's problem" KillYourInnerLoser podcast. Eventually I just stared at her deadpan in the eyes for like 10-20 seconds. She started kind of inching away..."omg I'm so sorry...I keep shooting u down....sorry...". I kinda wimped out here and probed her logistics for next week and exchanged for a future meetup. I'll be 7 billion% shocked if she doesn't ghost me after this lol.

Audios
1st instadate going for pull (not the above story). chick was like 4'9" again, milf - https://www.sndup.net/w32h/
approach -> rejection -> approach -> start of 2nd instadate - https://www.sndup.net/94tk/
 
I've been active this week, mainly been updating my first post with my approach logs rather than spamming my log and the homepage with "hey i did 60 approaches and got 3 contacts and blah blah standard stuff". There aren't really "crazy" approaches anymore because I've seen most of the spectrum already so there's no value for me to report my sessions like how I did back in Nashville when I was extremely new to approaching girls.

Got plenty of flaming beta stories to tell including a 2 hour instadate and dropping a chick off at the airport but I've been pushing myself lately with mall approach and I'm so excited to explore what happens next on the journey. I mainly want to explore this journey alone without getting a bunch of feedback, so next post I make here will be when something huge happens, and I'll divulge all the flaming beta stories in between. I don't think telling the flaming beta stories right now is going to provide much value (since I've said I want to explore this alone and see what unfolds, and I specifically don't want advice), but I promise I'll talk about all of them at some point.

The main realization I did have today though is approaching girls is magical because it's the closest I've got to a fantasy of living out simultaneous lives. That is, I can have multiple trajectories and relationships with girls, and live my life on fast-forward. I have this privilege many guys don't have because they'll find one girl, perhaps through social circle, and by total luck they'll just decide to be together. But the guy will often end up being super needy to the girl because he doesn't know that he can also just meet other women, and completely live his life by her rules. This often results in stagnation for both the guy and the girl, and a sense of complacency.

I get to skip this. Since I've had almost zero experience before approach, lots of my interactions are ending up down some hyper-beta trajectory and it fucking sucks when that happens, but it only motivates me more because I realize I reached this point with a specific girl relatively quickly (e.g. within a few days of meeting her for maybe a couple minutes), instead of having to meet her through some social circle and get "comfortable". Since I can meet girls so quickly now, I can have multiple trajectories and see what happens and there's a lot of room to explore and experiment in an efficient and short amount of time. And I can stop meeting girls whom I think would be wastes of time, and there's no macro-scale desperation (the hyper-beta trajectories usually happen in the moment, and feelings of "not wanting to burn the bridge", but I can choose not to see a specific girl again in that case).
 
colgate said:
Anyway, I brought up the topic of music, and went for music pull to my car. No dice, we were still in the mall. I really wanted it, so decided to take another loop around the mall. I walked towards a movie theater like "let's go watch a movie". She was like....uhhh...no....idk....but she kept just following me.
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I think you grab them by the hand every once in a while, yes? Next time, instead of asking if she wants to listen to music in your car, grab her hand and begin walking towards it.
 
Since Feb 6, I've done a little under 300 approaches and probably picked up around 20-25 contacts, and been on 10+ instadates and a regular date. I'd say at least 150 of the approaches didn't last longer than 20 seconds, and many of them I did not even get past "hey". So probably 100-130 approaches where I actually had a real interaction.

Including today, going literally 0 contacts for around 70 approaches (although I had an instadate).

I think I've inverted the entire paradigm with respect to how I feel regarding cold approach. Back in August when I was extremely new, I felt like I was living in fear, like I didn't have the right to exist in this world. Now I can literally see the absolute fear that most girls live in, and probably most people in general.

And I think this power is getting to my head...

For example, here's a list of my craziest approaches/experiences over the past few weeks. I've never had any experiences like the below ones up until over the past 5 or 6 sessions. In chronological order:
- I look at some chick maybe 10 feet away and she looks at me. Starts darting off, I didn't even approach. I just kept staring at her and tailing her from a distance, and she darts into a shoe store. I stand in place, at least 20 feet away from her but I look at her. She pretends to look at merchandise but she keeps looking up to see if I'm still there. Just darts between a bunch of merchandise until she runs into an employee and they start chatting. I'm like uhhh, uhhh, and gtfo.
- I'm about to walk down an escalator and I say "excuse me" to some people so I can pass them. I walk through them and some 13yo boy is like "ugh can u watch where ur going?" I just decide to look back and stare at them, totally deadpan. They get all flustered. It's a kid with his mom and dad. I deadpan look at each member of the family as they whine at me. I reach the bottom of the escalator and I periodically walk, turn around completely and look deadpan, walk, turn around and look. They keep looking at me, making weird faces and discussing something while looking at me. Then I just walk off. This fired me up because I was feeling kinda psyched out from some random chick calling me nervous earlier in the day and I made a bunch of low effort approaches and took a nap up until this point.
- I'm loop-spam pushing a girl to cancel her Uber and some random other chick sitting down observing is like "It's time for you to go goodbye!" I look at her like a laser and say "Who are you." She's like "uhh...uhh....I...work here..." and buries her head in her phone.
- Several girls decline my handshake or don't even want to talk because of "covid" and that I'm not wearing a mask. I just started being like, okay sure I'll put my mask on. Then I'll just exaggerate the fuck out of this. How about you stay six feet away from me. Then I'll have a loud conversation and when the girl tries to come closer to me, I'll be like, no, stay six feet away. Eventually I'll just be like, okay go 30 feet that way, get out of here. I did actually end up instadating+exchanging with a girl who thought this was funny and played along and we literally talked for 2 hours but I'll talk about that in a future post.
- I walk into a store and approach a girl. Talk for 30 seconds. Then I just stand in place and she immediately leaves the store. I see another girl in the store. Do the exact same thing. 30 second chat, stand in place. She leaves the store too.
- Duo is kind of walking to escalator and I'm about to be on their side to approach. I see them look at me for a second, but we're near the escalator. I can kind of tell they're already hyper scared and want to change trajectory/avoid me so I just go slightly ahead of them straight to the top of the down escalator. They both go into the top of the up escalator. I forced this entire trajectory and bust out laughing and make fun of them for trying to go down the up escalator for like a whole minute and then leave.
- A girl screams "nooooooooo!" when I say she's pretty. I reciprocate while looking back at her and run in the other direction like "nooooooooooo!"
- I see a Japanese girl walking towards me, and I see LINE on her phone. I'm like "ur Japanese right" in Japanese, and she's nodding her head "no!" as if she didn't understand me. We play a match of football where she tries to dodge me and I try to block her. Then I say "walk the fuck that way" in Japanese and she goes off. Later I run into her again and she sees me and hides behind a digital sign. I just stand in place for about a minute. Then she gives up and comes out and I stare at her, still standing still. She keeps looking at me and then literally runs away like a little bunny.
- Some girl is on the phone and I open her while she's talking on the phone. Maybe 30 second chat and then I can already sense she wants to dart and change trajectory. So we're right next to a store that's already closed and has a barrier set up. I'm like "yeah, go in that store". She's like huh??? "Yeah, come on, go in that store". She removes the barrier and goes in the store and redoes the barrier and I walk away laughing my ass off.

Anyway, I'm mentioning the above experiences because me 6 months ago would not imagine myself literally "controlling the simulation".

But it's not helpful for me getting laid.

Yeah, it's fun to have these weird frame battles and fuck with aggressively unreceptive girls, but it's easily arguable that I'm wasting too much time trying to have all these crazy rejection stories. In other words, just because I can do it, doesn't mean I should.

I think this may help me in trying to be forward in the bedroom perhaps in the future. But it's still the wrong thing to emphasize on. I mean I literally just wrote 9 long bullet points about "changing girls' trajectories".

In addition, if I weren't in the daygame chat, I wouldn't be like "wow fucking awesome, I went 0 for 70!" More likely that I would have been pissed maybe 30-40 rejections in and calibrate a bit. It's because you can get lots of validation in this chat, simply for doing a bunch of approaches, and especially if the percentages are low or even zero. Also if you do those funny frame battles which I mentioned above.

Which made me realize being in a place like this daygame chat is kind of similar to vaping. It's another form of breaking my brain's dopamine circuit by rewarding me for things that aren't supposed to be good, or they're low-effort.

On the other hand I have seen myself changing/evolving over these past few sessions even with the daygame chat. But I think the changes I make will be far different if I'm not exposed/incentivized by the validation from there.

The validation you receive should be aligned with your goals. If you're getting too much validation for irrelevant things, then it's time to take a second look at the places you're receiving the validation from.

So I'll continue staying in the daygame chat. But on March 1st, I'm going to be radio silent (unless I get a lay, then I'll post it there along with the rejection count). I think the strategies I take and things I implement will significantly change and I'll focus on more meaningful things about cold approach. And I won't be wasting my time with in-chat memes all day.

I've learned some lessons recently. I'll update this to let you know how it goes. I've got plenty of stories to tell but I'll save it for another post.
 
colgate said:
Hi, I'm colgate. I probably wouldn't have picked this username now, but at the time I just ran with a nickname someone gave me from an old Discord chat because I pretty much impulsively made an account. This log is a documentation of my journey to actually have a dating life, from nearly zero.

Up until I made an account, I had 1 gf I did nothing with except hold hands with in high school, and kiss 2 other girls. Went on 2 dates with a girl I'd approached a month prior to creating an account (none before that in my life). Never slept with a girl.

Here's my first post on the forums: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=18942#p18942

And here's my story, in excruciating detail: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28200#p28200

--

original first post:
hey y'all, I'm gonna try to make video logs when I can about my progress and also write some commentary about them in this thread.

here's my first one: https://streamable.com/gpt2ez

This one is just a short introduction about myself. I'm 25 and 5'5", and my goal is to get JACKED. I'm right now 138 lbs and I think I'll look better at 150 lbs (with muscle).

With talking to women, and life in general, my biggest problem I feel is being honest and authentic to strangers and people I don't know. I used to feel that if I told people what I actually thought or my truth, I would be cast out and rejected. But, rejection is just a way for you to screen and filter out people you don't need in your life and that's necessary.

I've been able to approach girls and start talking to them (Andy's 3-2-1-GO thing helps me a lot with doing this), but I haven't straight up told a girl I think she's hot or attractive, which is going to be my next goal.

After watching this, I think I need to cut the self-deprecating humor and even though I intend to make these as stream-of-consciousness videos, I should probably think about what I want to say more clearly and slowly.
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Also let me ask for some advice on my log. How would you escalate on a girl in public? Like say you have her sitting down next to you on a couch or bench.
 
colgate said:
But it's not helpful for me getting laid.
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I agree.

The problem with the daygame chat is it literally seems to celebrate rejection for the sake of rejection. It's like people there don't care whether you get laid or not...but will get excited if you post a 100+ session. You see this with Vasillis; dude posts lay reports but the guys who approach a lot don't even acknowledge him.

I don't remember what was your reaction to the robotic "I'm Martin from America" voice message, but this was bizarre. You don't need this type of input when you're trying to get laid for the first time. I have fun there but, if I was a newbie with no point of reference about what works for me, it would hurt me more than actually help.

I'd suggest going radio silent today.

colgate said:
Also let me ask for some advice on my log. How would you escalate on a girl in public? Like say you have her sitting down next to you on a couch or bench.
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You mean going for the kiss?

I'd start by lightly touching her hand or shoulder. I might pinch her cheeks.

I'd also talk about training, ask her if she works out and (no matter what she says) ask her to flex her quad. I'd then touch her leg with my finger and then with the entire hand, and might even stroke it a bit. If she's OK with this, I'd go for the kiss.

I'd highly suggest reading GLL's first "screening" articles. I remember reading them when I was only 2 lays in and they clicked a ton with me.

I have to ask though: Why escalate in public? What do you hope to achieve?

Edit: I know you record some of your approaches. Do you have anyone reviewing them and giving you feedback?
 
colgate said:
For example, here's a list of my craziest approaches/experiences over the past few weeks. I've never had any experiences like the below ones up until over the past 5 or 6 sessions. In chronological order:
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I do the same stuff. Life is a videogame. One of my NYC wings calls these adventures "DLC missions": you didn't get laid (main quest), but you had a bunch of fun side adventures. As you note, they should never detract from the main quest. They're just things that help spice up the day out.

colgate said:
Also let me ask for some advice on my log. How would you escalate on a girl in public? Like say you have her sitting down next to you on a couch or bench.
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I'm a big fan of the Vin Decarlo Escalation Ladder. I found it when I was in my early 20s and it helped me lose my virginity by just escalating physical touch when I was sitting next to a girl at a hostel. I still use the same general escalation pattern today.
 
Crisis_Overcomer said:
It's like people there don't care whether you get laid or not...but will get excited if you post a 100+ session. You see this with Vasillis; dude posts lay reports but the guys who approach a lot don't even acknowledge him.
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Agree

Crisis_Overcomer said:
I'd suggest going radio silent today.
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10,000% agree.
 
colgate said:
In addition, if I weren't in the daygame chat, I wouldn't be like "wow fucking awesome, I went 0 for 70!" More likely that I would have been pissed maybe 30-40 rejections in and calibrate a bit. It's because you can get lots of validation in this chat, simply for doing a bunch of approaches, and especially if the percentages are low or even zero. Also if you do those funny frame battles which I mentioned above.
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Honestly man, I mean this very sincerely. This is a much bigger problem than you realize.

Last year validation was the #1 thing that prevented me from getting laid. Not inexperience.
 
He's honestly losing nothing. He will more than likely never see these girls again. In a world of 8 billion people its irrelevant. I mean he's having fun that's what's more important. The problem is "Having fun and positive interactions with everyone" is a bad goal because it's dependent on the OTHER PERSON. A better goal is to just have fun.

Ok the day someone gets 2-3 lays out of 70 approaches consistently I wanna see the quality because lets be real that's pretty rare, and 25 numbers who cares numbers are pretty worthless.

Besides who's better the guy who hits on 100 girls and gets 50 numbers and no lays or the guy who hits on a 100 girls and gets 5 lays and 5 numbers. If you just want validation from people that's one thing, if not your gonna have to be in some uncomfortable situations, but that's just life. Numbers are pretty worthless lets be real.
 
Heisenberg, thanks for your post, because it's what I actually needed.

I can elucidate a couple things:

Heisenberg said:
Try a new mindset: Having fun and positive interactions with everybody that you talk to and make their days better. Suddenly you'll get 25 numbers and 2-3 lays out of 70 approaches.
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So yeah, this is what I normally do when a girl is receptive or neutral. I have some less sociopathic stories to talk about, and I did bias my previous post heavily on the "I'm in control of this simulation" type experiences, but mainly because I realized I've perhaps been doing a lot of those out of getting validation in that daygame chat, and I know it's not helping me much.

Heisenberg said:
Even a nervous beginner won't go 0 out of 70 if he is just nice and says hello with a smile on his face.
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So I think I should clear up how I'm opening girls. It's really not anything different than what I was doing back on college campuses, essentially "hey, [excuse me], just thought you looked cute" or some variation of that (honestly I wing it) and then I get into some basic conversation and exchange.

Or at least that's my game plan. I wrote in this post that I realized the dynamics here at the mall are completely different than anywhere else I've been: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28401#p28401. Mainly, no matter how you approach, many girls straight up ignore, or run off and you can't get past the opener, or even sometimes "hey", disproportionately so compared to college campuses. This isn't 70 approaches strolling around on a bright sunny day in a park.

Here's an audio of one of my approaches from Friday where I ended up exchanging contacts: http://www.sndup.net/whkx
But this girl was open to talking for a bit. Yeah of course I walk into every interaction wanting it to go something like this, but I have no control of the girl's "state" so I think what I'm trying to figure out is how to keep it under control for overt lameness/negativity from girls.

Heisenberg said:
Your mindset should be to make other people's day better. Even if you get rejected, the girl and you should both leave with a smile.
Your unhealthy focus on being "alpha" and displaying that you don't give a damn are just another escape mechanism and a different form of AA. That's totally not what ius meant by outcome-independence.
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I think blowing through probably 20-30 of these kinds of approaches broke away at a lot of my "nice" behaviors. But I somehow think exaggerating my reaction to overt unreceptiveness is just a form of being butthurt, as hilarious as it is to me. I don't really know how exactly I should handle these kinds of girls. Perhaps I need to just zone in on non-reacting and moving on.
 
Also on my 0/70 day yesterday I did have an instadate.

She was very bubbly and adorable. We went window shopping in Sephora for a bit and then we grabbed some bubble teas. The bubble teas took like 20 minutes to get ready so we were standing next to each other having fun chat. I had my arm around her and she was just so cute I was literally hard af. Then she took off her mask to drink her bubble tea and got all embarrassed that I was gonna see her face and I was like even more turned on. We were walking around the mall like bf and gf while I had my arm around her. She went to the bathroom and gave me her tea so I waited for my new gf. Then she came out and we sat down on some couch and started cuddling. I just kept looking at her face and she was like "omg why are u staring at me??" in a super cute way, and I was just like "cuz ur so freaking cute". I think this psyched me out a bit and I jumped to go for a makeout right there and she basically ran off like "uhhh... i have to go shopping lol".

This instadate was why I asked about escalation tips, because I feel like my escalation was the equivalent of having the interaction be "hey ur cute! give me your number!" all rushed and nervous, like you can't handle the tension of a conversation. So I'll read some of the replies from earlier and see how I can be a bit more smooth.
 
Crisis_Overcomer said:
I have to ask though: Why escalate in public? What do you hope to achieve?
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I have a couple reasons I want to start escalating on instadates:

I had 10 instadates where I tried loopspam pulling Lord Voldemort style. He'd say I'm not being forward enough but I think just saying the pull line over and over isn't really effective at all, maybe it works sometimes, but it's a hyper low chance and I don't think it should be my main strategy. I was also this "pushy" back in Phoenix and it got me nowhere (only time pushiness got me anywhere was when my actions were pushy, like how I madeout with that half-asian girl).

I ran into some guy who saw me approaching the other day and he has had success at the same venue I've been at. I was discussing instadates and pulling and he told me if you escalate and go for the makeout on the date itself, you'll have a much easier time pulling and more girls will be willing to come with you. This isn't even the first time I've heard this, but it seems to be a common theme, to actually escalate on the girl before you actually pull.

I'm essentially trying to treat it like nightgame, where you escalate on the girl at the club and then try to pull.

The reason I'm going down this route is because I easily get 1-3 instadates per session, and sometimes I've gotten more instadates than contacts. And so far I've only been on one date from a contact here in California so far. So there's no way I'm going to be getting enough mileage to practice escalating at my place, so I'm gonna have to practice it with what I do have coming regularly. Additionally, it'll help me on regular dates in the future.

Also I feel like just having a 15-20 minute platonic conversation and then spamming her to pull isn't what I want to do. I'd at least like to fool around with the girl so I feel I've not wasted my freaking time even if it stops at some point. It'll help me start trying to build a more sexual frame if I'm not focused on boring conversation.
 
Heisenberg said:
Try a new mindset: Having fun and positive interactions with everybody that you talk to and make their days better. Suddenly you'll get 25 numbers and 2-3 lays out of 70 approaches.
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I really feel the need to call this out, as it's said to me often as well - I can't stand advice like this. Guys who don't cold approach at volume have no idea how difficult it is to get laid.

While your above points about creating win-win situations are valid, you can't just go out with a "positive mentality' and expect things to fall into your lap. You have to have a system and Game. Even with both of those, approach to lay ratios north of 200:1 are very common.

colgate said:
I ran into some guy who saw me approaching the other day and he has had success at the same venue I've been at. I was discussing instadates and pulling and he told me if you escalate and go for the makeout on the date itself, you'll have a much easier time pulling and more girls will be willing to come with you. This isn't even the first time I've heard this, but it seems to be a common theme, to actually escalate on the girl before you actually pull.
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While I think he's right that more escalation is needed before the pull, I don't think that making out is the right move. Especially during a daytime instadate with the type of girls you are going after (who are generally gonna be uncomfortable with public displays of affection).

But... you might as well try it out for a bit and then calibrate back down if it's not working.
 
pancakemouse said:
Guys who don't cold approach at volume have no idea how difficult it is,
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Not to get too off topic here but having the approach experience between different venues I can make the following remark about this.

If you approach on e.g. a college campus, or maybe a sunny park, there are far more girls willing to have a short chat with you, and the rejections aren't as strong. That's why I was able to pick up 41 contacts over 130 approaches back in September at a college campus.

A guy who's more calibrated than I am and isn't a total noob can hook up quite often just from approaching college girls, especially if he can come off as confident and sexual, with relatively few approaches. There was this one time Troy went 10/12 on campus and hooked up with 1 or 2 of the girls from that batch.

On the other hand, lots of high pedestrian traffic areas have many people cold approaching for various reasons, such as Bible study, pickup, and sales. Girls are inherently more closed off in these venues, and you'll have extremely low conversion rates just due to the nature of the venue. On a college campus in the extreme, I can get 13 contacts over 25 approaches while I can have clean zero stretches over 25 at the mall. Additionally, I've mentioned in previous posts that girls tend to hard deflect, iow, lots of "can't get past hey, can't get past opener" type dynamic.

Some people might say well why are you even approaching there at such a low-percentages place. For me, it's been another step in my own journey of "approach is therapy". I've realized absorbing a lot of hard deflections has made me much colder, and for someone who's basically a spastic ball of plasma, I need that. If you listen to my last audio I sent here, I believe my vocal tonality has improved, and I think vocal tonality comes from a place of what latent emotional state you're in. It also makes me feel much more bold doing my daily warmup approaches on campus where I just stroll around and talk to 3-5 girls.
 
pancakemouse said:
Heisenberg said:
Try a new mindset: Having fun and positive interactions with everybody that you talk to and make their days better. Suddenly you'll get 25 numbers and 2-3 lays out of 70 approaches.
Click to expand...

I really feel the need to call this out, as it's said to me often as well - I can't stand advice like this. Guys who don't cold approach at volume have no idea how difficult it is to get laid.

While your above points about creating win-win situations are valid, you can't just go out with a "positive mentality' and expect things to fall into your lap.
Click to expand...

I was literally going to say this.

Ive never seen anyone pull those kinds of conversions off of just being positive. 3 lays out of 70 is pretty rare.


My only lay from day game came from being very pissed off.

I was not a happy camper that day. And I didn't want to make girls feel good. I just wanted to fuck.


And to be honest same has been true for online dates. Plenty of girls I've fucked were not smiling on the date. Nor was I trying to make their day better.


I actually take issue with the statement.
"Leave the girl better than you found her".


... It's a nice saying.
But does it actually make a difference?
I'm not completely sold on it.

I kind of wonder if it's a phrase to make guys feel better about what they're doing vs actually being for the girl.
 
colgate said:
pancakemouse said:
Guys who don't cold approach at volume have no idea how difficult it is,
Click to expand...

Not to get too off topic here but having the approach experience between different venues I can make the following remark about this.

If you approach on e.g. a college campus, or maybe a sunny park, there are far more girls willing to have a short chat with you, and the rejections aren't as strong. That's why I was able to pick up 41 contacts over 130 approaches back in September at a college campus.

A guy who's more calibrated than I am and isn't a total noob can hook up quite often just from approaching college girls, especially if he can come off as confident and sexual, with relatively few approaches. There was this one time Troy went 10/12 on campus and hooked up with 1 or 2 of the girls from that batch.

On the other hand, lots of high pedestrian traffic areas have many people cold approaching for various reasons, such as Bible study, pickup, and sales. Girls are inherently more closed off in these venues, and you'll have extremely low conversion rates just due to the nature of the venue. On a college campus in the extreme, I can get 13 contacts over 25 approaches while I can have clean zero stretches over 25 at the mall. Additionally, I've mentioned in previous posts that girls tend to hard deflect, iow, lots of "can't get past hey, can't get past opener" type dynamic.

Some people might say well why are you even approaching there at such a low-percentages place. For me, it's been another step in my own journey of "approach is therapy". I've realized absorbing a lot of hard deflections has made me much colder, and for someone who's basically a spastic ball of plasma, I need that. If you listen to my last audio I sent here, I believe my vocal tonality has improved, and I think vocal tonality comes from a place of what latent emotional state you're in. It also makes me feel much more bold doing my daily warmup approaches on campus where I just stroll around and talk to 3-5 girls.
Click to expand...

Most differences of opinion in Game are just guys talking past each other because they don't have any concept of the other guy's context. That's why I've tried my hardest to test out as many different types of Game as possible, so I can try to give the best advice.

Regarding venues, when I first started daygame I was approaching during rush hour in the Financial District in downtown San Francisco. I was confused why I was getting rejected so much compared to other guys I had read about. I figured it was because I was a noob.

Now I'm like "Oh... yeah. Duh."

Manganiello said:
I actually take issue with the statement.
"Leave the girl better than you found her".


... It's a nice saying.
But does it actually make a difference?
I'm not completely sold on it.

I kind of wonder if it's a phrase to make guys feel better about what they're doing vs actually being for the girl.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's as much a technique as it is just a nice thing to do for the world. I practice it.

But I'm a utilitarian, so there ya go.
 
pancakemouse said:
Manganiello said:
I actually take issue with the statement.
"Leave the girl better than you found her".


... It's a nice saying.
But does it actually make a difference?
I'm not completely sold on it.

I kind of wonder if it's a phrase to make guys feel better about what they're doing vs actually being for the girl.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's as much a technique as it is just a nice thing to do for the world. I practice it.

But I'm a utilitarian, so there ya go.
Click to expand...


Ya exactly.
There's nothing wrong with it.

Im just point out it seems like it's more about guys deciding to be nice, vs. that niceness converting into lays.
 
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