colgate - High Volume Approaching & Pulling / Pickup Hustle

[colgate / bulldog]

So in my last approach log, I wrote this.

Honestly, I'm not really going to bother mentioning contact exchanges because I want to focus way more on instadates. I've had probably close to 20 instadates in the past 1.5 months and have managed to get the girl either in my car or to my place (or both) 4-5 times. (although I pulled twice from regular dates here).

Compared to having only going on regular dates with 3 girls, and those regular dates took 70+ contacts to get. I especially thought my session on Sunday was excellent and thought I had some solid contacts but they all ghosted.

Additionally, even the approaches @pancakemouse saw and said "that was really good!!!" also ghosted (except one, who agreed to meet for date, then cancelled, then ghosted). So I'm only taking contacts (incidentally) if I think I'm getting the girl to "invest" in meeting up with me for a date and setting plans on the spot, but it's not going to be something I focus on. Because I can get a girl to just give me her phone number, and then nothing happens. And it's pretty annoying to have so many phone numbers and maybe have the sporadic text convo which also goes nowhere moment I pitch meeting up. And then it's the worst when she agrees to meet up but then cancels on the day of. Just a huge headache honestly, when I can instadate instead.

While this is all true, I've actually realized it leads down a dark path. Which I'm about to explain, and then I'll talk about what I'm going to do going forward.

Daygame
Wednesday 3/9: 7 approaches, 1 instadate, 0 pull.
Thursday 3/10: ~20 approaches, 0 instadates.

I went out super late on Wednesday because I had SHIT! time management.

But regardless, I noticed a very outcome-oriented and defeatist trend in my past 2 sessions. No longer was I approaching just girls I found attractive, but I pared the scope down to "girls I think will instadate". So obviously solo girls, but even then I wasn't super driven. I felt like I was deliberately not approaching girls who were walking fast, into stores, etc. Essentially I was trying to (incorrectly) optimize for whom I thought would be most likely to instadate.

What I noticed is that I felt drained. I felt way less motivated to approach in the first place, because I was artificially limiting myself. I wasn't approaching honestly, like I usually do. Usually I just approach whomever is attractive, regardless of the situation. And then I calibrate to the situation accordingly and try to veer it towards an instadate if possible, otherwise I try to have a good interaction with the girl and maybe her friends.

But this takes a dark turn, because every time I stopped myself from approaching a certain girl, the justification that "she's not going to meet up with you, why bother" would come up in my head. Essentially, while I do think "getting the girl's number" means mostly jack shit, I overshot it as in "just getting her contact is like being rejected, because she's going to ghost you anyway". And it's true that you get ghosted majority of the time.

Thinking this way is extremely unhealthy because it puts the belief in your head that no girl would want to meet up with you in the future, so getting her to instadate is all you got. While I think it's way easier to get an instadate and I can get a lot of cool experiences that way, I need to still pick up contacts when I can instead of acting totally defeatist about them.

And it's certainly not the case that zero girls want to meet up with me. I've gone on arranged dates with 3 girls in the past 30 days. Which is way more than zero. And way more than I ever had in my whole life up until I started approaching (0 dates). Just because the ratio is something like 3 dates/70-80 contacts doesn't mean I should stop picking up contacts (by the way, I did pick up around 3 or 4 contacts in my past 2 sessions, but I just tried to make it incidental). I've had approach sessions where I'd pick up 3 contacts over ~70 approaches. But that didn't stop me from approaching, I just continued. And likewise, contacts->dates is similar. Remember when I had a week packed with dates in November over only around 40-50 contacts? I guess it was hard for me to see the contact->date wave play out since the duration of time is much longer than approach->contact waves.

And I wonder how many guys even go on 3 dates in a month? That's not great or anything, but I think it's better than the average guy. It's something I ought to be grateful for, not depressed about.

So going forward, still going to focus primarily on instadates. But I mainly need to figure out how I can get the girl to invest in me during the approach so it's more likely the contact means something. And I shouldn't avoid approaching girls just because I think it's only going to lead to a contact exchange. Basically mainly instadates but keep arranged dates on the backburner and don't forget about them.

 

[MakingAComeback]

Great work as ever

Lots for me to read over the weekend. Will reply properly on Sunday

When you go all the way in and are living this it can fuck with your head as you know man. This thing of approaching girls and also going on dates just knowing they will ghost after, man I can't help but relate. Its not healthy.

I texted my Dad last night and he didn't reply and part of me was like "WHAT is my Dad ghosting me" LMAO

At that point I knew I needed to cool off for a few hours

MAC

 

[Rice]

Man, you are an inspiration! My history and stats are pretty similar to yours, so its a reminder I got no excuses.

 

[Toast]

Thinking this way is extremely unhealthy because it puts the belief in your head that no girl would want to meet up with you in the future, so getting her to instadate is all you got. While I think it's way easier to get an instadate and I can get a lot of cool experiences that way, I need to still pick up contacts when I can instead of acting totally defeatist about them.

I think this is a great insight.

Myself, Manganiello and Crisis_Overcomer Have somewhat steered away from Lord Voldemort and his style of approach. Although instadates can produce outcomes, you definitely should still be taking all the contacts you can. Regardless of whether or not the girl will meet up. Its like shooting ur self in the foot and not using all the sources available to get girls. Although the % of girls who ghost is extremely high via contacts, there is still the opportunity to meet up.

My approach history is limited, but I had success focusing solely on contacts. I think I was like 1/150 or so with sexual outcomes all from contacts. I got my current plate by a contact. She said she was unavailable for one month and then I texted her a month later and she came over and gave me a BJ on the first date within half an hour of meeting. Then came back 3 days later to hook up.

You are close with Troy and he's verified as someone who does low volume, focuses on better conversations, building more rapport, and getting contacts and instadates. So viewing his style of approach and seeing success shows that there are many ways to approach and have success. Personally I think u should continue learning from troy. Manganiello went like 1/700 in Calgary with dates following Voldemort's style. Then he switched it up to troy style and got a date after 30 approaches or contacts or whatever.

 

[MakingAComeback]

Love how we are having a collective group therapy session detoxing from Lord Voldermort's teachings :lol: :lol:

That stuff legit fucked with my head and made me more jaded, not because of his teachings per se, but the culture and the dynamics of that group chat. Psychopathic shit. It made me angrier at my bullshit than I already was, which is not good, LMAO

MAC

 

[colgate / bulldog]

So one roadblock I've repeatedly run into is every time I reach some "milestone", I get a bit lazy and think I'm going to get that result so easily again, without putting as much effort.

This especially happens when I feel like I'm able to do something "kind of consistently". I'm like okay, I can shut my brain off, and not try as hard.

For example, back in Austin, after I had that week packed with dates, I noticed I was getting lazy with my interactions again, because I thought I could just shut off and go 100% on autopilot: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24623#p24623

Similarly, I've felt over my past few sessions, I've been generally lazy and low-energy because I somehow feel "entitled" to get a girl to agree to an instadate, hang out, and then pull to my car/house, simply because I've done it 4-5 times in the past 30 days.

But there's no entitlement. Every girl you approach starts from a clean slate. As far as each individual approach goes, it's no different than as if it were the first approach you've ever done. You can't just rely on "oh well, this other girl, you know I brought her back to my place after a few hours of meeting and we fooled around, so this girl should be the same", no it doesn't work that way. If you just default to going on pure autopilot, you're guaranteed to just get unilaterally rejected, and those rejections from your own poor performance.

That's why it's important to always bring your A game, on each approach. And if you're not bringing your A game, figure out how to bring your A game. For me, if I do a bunch of approaches in a row, even knowing that they're going to suck, it ends up lifting my spirits and I get back up to speed. So I need to quit this low-volume sniper mode shit, especially in the mall.

And recognize that with approach, even if you've brought your A game, you're still going to have to go through the girls ignoring, the instant deflections, the brief conversations full of excuses, the contact exchanges that ghost, the arranged dates who cancel, the instadates who don't pull, the pulls that refuse to let you escalate. It's part of the process and it's unavoidable. But you handle those with stride and you'll hit the jackpot. There's no entitlement to having outcomes you want, no matter how much you've improved.

 

[Toast]

And recognize that with approach, even if you've brought your A game, you're still going to have to go through the girls ignoring, the instant deflections, the brief conversations full of excuses, the contact exchanges that ghost, the arranged dates who cancel, the instadates who don't pull, the pulls that refuse to let you escalate. It's part of the process and it's unavoidable. But you handle those with stride and you'll hit the jackpot. There's no entitlement to having outcomes you want, no matter how much you've improved.

Straight up facts right here

 

[pancakemouse]

Remember that the "Instadates or nothing" advice applies to extremely high volume cities. If you can't easily do 15+ sets per hour where you live, contacts have a higher chance of leading to dates.

 

[Crisis_Overcomer]

That stuff legit fucked with my head and made me more jaded, not because of his teachings per se, but the culture and the dynamics of that group chat. Psychopathic shit. It made me angrier at my bullshit than I already was, which is not good, LMAO

Preach. Ever since I got kicked out, I feel as if my calibration and attitude towards girls and people in general improved.

 

[MakingAComeback]

That stuff legit fucked with my head and made me more jaded, not because of his teachings per se, but the culture and the dynamics of that group chat. Psychopathic shit. It made me angrier at my bullshit than I already was, which is not good, LMAO

Preach. Ever since I got kicked out, I feel as if my calibration and attitude towards girls and people in general improved.

For sure! It is a duhaminising way to look at things man. Those dudes honestly made me feel repulsed.

Also makes you BLIND to the deeper components of human intimacy and bonding

Mass approaching is gonna really help me stop getting the not feeling the connection text 3 x a week right? lol

More to this shit

Love how we are collectively developing a body of knowledge...........thru sheer work alone

MAC

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Daygame
Friday 3/11: ~55 approaches, 0 instadates, 0 contacts.
Saturday 3/12: ~80 approaches, 2 instadates, 2 contacts.

Brutal weekend so far. I have some comments though.

I think on many of the approaches, I've been coming onto the girl too aggressively and it freaks them out. Not intentionally. But I occasionally miss approaches where the girl walks into a store (I don't know why I haven't been doing those as much, I used to do them all the time and sometimes I still do them. But sometimes I don't do them), or the girl is about to go on the escalator, or the girl is about to leave the mall into the parking lot, or the girl ends up going to the bathroom. Somehow I feel compelled to try to approach those girls as fast as possible because I think I'll "blow my approach window". There's just many situations where I feel like I come on way too strong, and I wonder if it's contributing to some of my super brutal sessions I occasionally have.

Regarding contacts, I haven't been trying to get as many as possible. I've been seeing if I can get the girl to actually invest in the conversation and maybe meeting up in the future instead of just jumping for her number at some point. But I think this is a bad "optimization". There have been plenty of times a girl seems "receptive" and enthusiastically agrees to meet later, and we even plan it and she cancels/ghosts. On the other hand, I did get that one date in Nashville from a chick who was literally in a rush and I just extracted out her contact. So I don't know why I decided to trust my own "intuition" so much when deciding whether to go for the contact, because I guess wrong so often. Probably going to just go back to actually trying to get contacts again, and manning up and handling all of the ghosts/dead ends/cancels instead of trying to avoid them.

On Friday I decided to have the amazing idea of "no eating unless you can get a girl to instadate you and get dumplings". I wasn't specifically asking for dumpling instadates on every approach but I was trying to use it as some motivation. Might have actually been a terrible idea though because I was feeling kind of delirious at the end LOL.

A thing I started to experiment with is if a girl e.g. says "I'm waiting for a friend who's coming right now" or otherwise says something that makes instadating impossible, or even if I feel like the girl has "no interest", is extending the interaction as long as possible anyway. This is more out of trying to improve my social skills and conversational skills.

OK, so I ate before going out today. Lol.

Here's an approach I didn't bother trying to grab the contact on:

duo, "good" convo.
i give girl shit for leaving her friend 5-6 ft behind like "wow i know you want to talk to me so badly but don't ditch your friend"
random chat, chicks say they have lunch reservation
try to cold read Chinese province, etc, some more chat
"hey well, I'll let you enjoy your lunch, but I want to meet with you again"
"I have work, I work until 11pm"
"u a security guard or some shit, lemme see those biceps" (she's like a dainty chinese girl in a dress) and I squeeze her arm
ok well nice meeting you

^ so i felt like she was making a bunch of excuses not to meet again, so it's like why grab the contact? But maybe I should have asked for it anyway as I mentioned earlier, because I could be guessing totally wrong with her being "unreceptive".


ok ok blah blah i know u need to improve your approaches colgate, tell me how u got a korean glitter princess to buy you a hamburger

I was sitting down taking a break after plowing through maybe 25-30 rejections in a little over an hour, and was drinking some orange cream frappe.

I just started getting into meditation like 2 days ago, so I decided to use this break to completely focus on the moment and be mindful. I put my phone away and just tried to sit and observe the people passing by and making random remarks in my head about what I think about them. Basically meditating lol.

I see this beautiful Asian girl in a white dress walk by. I just look at her walk by me like she was an angel passing by.

I go up, drink in hand, and stop her, gaze her right in the eyes and say "you look gorgeous. i can't keep my eyes off of you".

she's immediately flattered and like "oh thank you...but I'm too old...". In my head, I'm like hell no, fuck this, I need this shit to happen.

Below exchange happened probably over the course of 2ish minutes while walking
oh yeah, you're probably too old. anyway what u up to?
oh i just walked out of nordstrom. but i'm too old for you
yeah, you probably are too old. anyway .... (continue some more small talk)
...
(small talk)...but I'm 40, and you're very young
oh how old do u think i am?
uhh maybe 22?
i'm 25
oh yeah see, i'm 40
oh yeah, you're 40. anyway *blah blah blah about some other topic*
...
(small talk)...but I have a boyfriend
oh cool, anyway how long u been here in san jose?

Essentially rather than trying the "you're my 21yo gf" strategy, which seems to essentially "validate the girl for giving me an excuse that she's too old", I just started acknowledging whatever objection she had and then immediately changing the subject. I experimented with this strategy on some more approaches and managed to prolong certain interactions I'd usually eject out of or get deflected on. So I'll be trying it occasionally from now on. I think you have to be effective at conversation though so that's the catch.

We arrived straight at a hamburger restaurant and she was like "what do u want" -> "you're buying me a burger?" -> "yeah cuz u were so nice"
uhhh so pushing a bunch by changing the subject and persisting is nice i guess

We sat across from each other and essentially I just looked her in the eyes the entire time, which basically forced her to start talking to me and asking me a bunch of questions. I've noticed whenever I sit across from a girl and I just make direct eye contact with her the whole time, she pretty much leads the entire conversation. Like, I don't look away at all the entire time.

I got too impatient at some point and stopped being present because I got too excited about being on this instadate. I was like hell yeah I'm gonna keep going. So I got up with food still in my mouth (she'd already finished her burger) and said let's go. I made like 2 weak attempts to get her to walk with me but I was still trying to swallow my food and she ejected out of the interaction. It was such a stark contrast from the beginning of the interaction because I approached her right out of a mini meditation sesh. stay present in the interaction and at all times stop thinking about the future of the interaction omfg

japanese trolls
I approached some girl sitting down. Okay she's Japanese. Not much to note other than the usual langswitch before I get deflected with "ai donto supiiku ingurisshu". We have a little instadate and exchange but I only bring this up because it set the stage for the next hour or so.

I approach a duo in English, and the girl is like "oh thanks." in a flat tone. Then she says "nani?" to her friend. I langswitch like "u guys are japanese huh". They're like "omg are u srs right now". "yeah im srs rn"

I basically get caught up in this hilarious convo and half of it is the girl being like "nani nani nani?". Also I think I got trapped because I got too caught up speaking Japanese with some young extroverted girls rather than the usual shy FOBs. Like it felt like I was just trying to flex or something. I ended up pitching an instadate with BOTH of them to get dumplings, even though that's completely pointless. They agreed.

We are walking over to the outdoor mall, and then I'm realizing more and more "what the fuck am i doing right now". Eventually, like 3 stores before the dumpling restaurant, I'm like "hey I don't feel like eating dumplings anymore lol, i'll see u later" and eject. They'd also said "oh yeah we both have boyfriends" (probably as some excuse so I couldn't push anything) earlier, so I didn't like stop to exchange with them.

Immediately, I approached some other girl sitting down. And she's Japanese too. Okay, that's like 3 Japanese approaches in a row maybe, if not 3 within <5.

And then the duo from earlier passes by and joins us.

It's us 4 talking and it has this outwardly hilarious vibe. I'm like yeah I just talked to these girls lol. But there's this undertone of the girls trying to cockblock me from this new girl I just approached. I decide to just stick it out because it's like okay yeah, I wanted to approach some other girl instead. They kind of jokingly but not jokingly say "This guy is dangerous!" "yeah, I'm a dangerous guy" Then the friend of the girl I approached in the duo exchanges insta with the girl sitting down and they leave after maybe 5 minutes.

So I talk to the girl on the bench a bit more and she's in full blown excuse mode after that disaster. "Oh I have to go home, there's no bus in 2 hours, etc etc"

then the duo comes back after like a minute

This time, the girl I approached is specifically talking to me while the friend is talking to the girl I was approaching. And the girl I approached in the duo is talking with me trying to get my contact. I'm like lol okay uhhhhhhhhhhhh I think they're trying to blow my approach but I roll with it. Originally I didn't count this contact and said I went 1/80.

But then later that night, she sends me a message, unprompted, finally telling me her real name. Not really sure what to do about this. I think it's probably a troll.

Anyway, the bench girl eventually gets up and is like "I go home, I go home!" and leaves, and the duo also leaves.

Then, like maybe 1-3 approaches later, I open yet another Japanese girl.

And then one of my Japanese friends from college shows up.

oh hey, did i tell u i got married lol
no, lol wtf
ya this is my wife
omg lmaooo bro i was tryna nampa your wife looool

 

[Jacobpalmer123]

Holy shit that's a lot of approaches. Just remember in the daytime a little aggression goes a long way. The initial approach is decently aggressive. Just as long as you're assertive and not meek your good. I wonder what my numbers will look like if I approached that many girls. Probably about the same.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Title of this post is a huge jk before anyone says I'm going off course. I'm aware.

Daygame
Sunday 3/13: ~40 approaches, 2 instadates, 1 contact.

I ended up doing probably 15-20ish approaches in an hour and a half, all rejections. There were a good amount of people but not as insane as yesterday.

I sat down for a bit and was trying to figure out what's going on. Because I feel like I'm absolving responsibility from myself if I just say "this is a huge negative wave". So I'd like to just be open about what I think I'm screwing up and get feedback on it.

There are some girls I feel like I'm rushing to stop them because if I don't approach now, I'll "blow the approach window". As in, if I wait 5 more seconds, she'll go into a store, meet her friends, meet her boyfriend, go wait in line somewhere, etc.

Some of those scenarios, it's fine I could just wait and let the scenario play out and then make the approach (like if she goes into a store or gets in line or meets with friends), but other scenarios, the approach automatically dies (meets with boyfriend). The problem is, I have no way of knowing beforehand which scenario is going to happen.

So to preempt the scenario, I just try to make some of these approaches as quickly as possible. What happens is I think I come on way too strongly. I'm actually totally cool with weird outcomes like girl's husband and kids show up or her parents show up, that's not my concern. My main concern is I'm coming on way too strongly because I literally just darted to approach her.

But I'm not even sure if all that matters. I've tried to A/B test "I'm going to be confident" and "I'm going to be chill", and noticed not much of a difference in the reactions. Girls will blowout, instantly deflect, or make a bunch of excuses up front regardless of which "vibe" I try. And let me highlight here that I've gotten 1 contact out of ~175 approaches over this weekend that wasn't from an instadate (and she was Japanese, so that's basically cheating).

Additionally, I think I'm not even aware of how "aggressive" I'm coming off. Here's one of my approaches on a duo after I probed some date logistics. Convo ended up being between her friend and I.

why don't i take your number and i'll let you know if she's interested
that just sounds like extra steps, let me grab yours (towards approach)
but you're like forcing her to meet up
i mean she doesn't have to meet up if she doesn't want to, but I'd like to meet up with her
yeah idk sorry....

Ended up taking the rejection from her. I actually thought I was being "calm" in this approach, so maybe my "calm" is still too aggressive. But if I don't try to have expressive body language and good tonality, I just shrink myself and get all weasly and fast. It's like what should I even do???

anyway, here are the instadates
While I was sitting down, I was thinking of randomly talking to this chick sitting next to me. But I see the Japanese keyboard on her phone. So okay wow that's easy. But it was just super platonic because I just started with "hey you're japanese right" (in japanese). I saw she had a ring but she agreed to come get bubble tea with me after a short chat, so uhh okay lol. Don't know why I decided to roll with this.

We get to the shop, input our orders, and then she pulls her credit card to pay. I'm like uhhhh ok and don't say anything and I just let her pay for the teas hahhhah.

Listened to some outdoor music being played, and then I bounced her to my usual spot to listen to music on my phone. Then I tried to car pull but she was like "oh I'm meeting friends soon at the indoor mall, let's head back". So we head back and I lightly probe if they've come yet so we end up just exchanging. Definitely not going anywhere.

I honestly kind of hate that I just end up pulling the language card on Japanese girls and I get way farther on those interactions than I do with plain English ones. Like "oh I can get girls to instadate and exchange and even regular date just because I can speak Japanese". Over this past weekend, if we separate Japanese vs non-Japanese, this is what the breakdown would be:
Non-Japanese: ~170 approaches. 2 instadates. 0 contacts.
Japanese: ~5 approaches. 2 instadates. 3 contacts.

And here's some of my lifetime stats so far regarding regular dates:
Non-Japanese: ~1800 approaches. ~12 arranged dates, 2 second dates (lucky, on my first 2 approaches).
Japanese: ~10 approaches. 3 arranged dates, 1 second date.

So yeah, it's a value boost for sure. But it's like artificially inflated, and it's not really an SMV boost. In other words, it's gotten specific girls more comfortable with me, but it just feels like because I can somehow trade me knowing Japanese with getting my foot in the door with more girls. Honestly, I should probably be studying Chinese and Korean LOL.

ok enough whining about stats, here's the second instadate
Probably 1.5 hours and another 15ish approaches later, I was playing poach mode and I saw some dainty Korean-American girl walk past me. Got up to approach, and she walked in the lululemon. Just walked inside to approach.

She said she was shopping for a sports bra, but seemed unsure. So I just said, why don't we get some taiyaki and chill. Seemed unsure again, so I just said let's go and started walking and she tagged along.

Made a bunch of basic chat with her but she was pretty low-energy and cold, as opposed to hyper bubbly and giggly. I rambled for a while about various things, like making direct eye contact, staying present, national parks, blah blah. I think I didn't do enough "you and her" stuff because I also got genuinely interested in her profession and talked quite a bit about that. But overall, just felt very platonic.

We reach the taiyaki place, and we tell the guy our orders. But he says her order would take 15 minutes, so I tell her to get something else. She's like uhh no that's ok u can just get something. And then she just pays for my ice cream. So I got free bubble tea and free ice cream from 2 different girls on the same day.........

Listened to music outside for maybe 10 minutes while I ate my ice cream. Then I go for the car pull and she's like uhhh no I think I have to get going. Decide to just stick it out and say, well let's walk around the mall again.

After maybe 5 minutes of walking around mall, she stops me like, "hey idk, I don't really feel the connection" (MakingAComeback style).

Honestly, it made sense that she said that though, because I mainly just talked about myself and my own experiences. I did try to ask her about her own but it was mostly short, boring answers. I know the main way I can get seemingly uninterested girls to talk is if I can sit across from them and get them to lock eyes with me, like I did with the 40yo Korean yesterday, and they end up just leading the whole conversation from me just looking them right in the eyes the whole time. But I didn't do that this time because when we were sitting next to each other listening to music, she was pretty much just looking away the entire time.

But anyway, I decided to persist and just be like "well It's 6:55pm now, let's hang out more until 7:30, listen to music in my car, then you go and I'll go". She agreed and I just put my arm over her and we walked towards the parking lot. Then she got cold feet right at the parking garage like "wait, where are we going?" "to my car" "oh, idk I don't want to go...". Brief chat but I ended up letting her go without exchanging contacts.

I think this second instadate is an archetype of trying to rely on pure forwardness and nothing else. Like it just ends up wasting your own time, and it's not really like the girl is enjoying it either, because she's basically "tranced" to do what you say. I really didn't try to build any connection with her, and I certainly didn't really escalate much at all. Going forward, I'm going to try to add some escalation steps to do in my plan, in addition to the logistics I've been using on approach+instadates. I feel like I didn't naturally escalate or raise up the tension (like I did with some of my previous instadates, such as these ones perhaps: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=30677#p30677. I feel like I naturally just escalate way more when the girl is bubbly and giggly and I literally get rock hard in my pants from those kinds of girls. I think I need to make sure I actually escalate on girls who aren't naturally bubbly and giggly to screen them out earlier, or unlock that side of them).

We arrived straight at a hamburger restaurant and she was like "what do u want" -> "you're buying me a burger?" -> "yeah cuz u were so nice"

So it happened again, twice. Feels like I'd be great at being homeless and getting food. Just go up to a lot of girls and get them to pay on an instadate. But I can't freaking get laid for the life of me arghhhh.

 

[MakingAComeback]

iM nOt fEeLiNg tHe CONNEKSHUN

 

[Adrizzle]

colgate always impressed by the numbers.

Food for thought. Whats the actual plan? What value are you bringing these girls? Is it possible that these instadates are not yielding results?

I don’t know how your flake rate from contacts is but I don’t think mall hang outs are a good place for anyone to put their best foot forward. My idea is that you want to give a girl an enjoyable experience/ and emotional spike. Idk maybe you got really cool malls in America but I don’t see this happening in the place she does groceries.

Big difference between the mood of an interaction between drinking tea in a food court and having a drink in a nice bar.

Maybe change up the approaching location if you haven’t before. Also what you said seemed calm. But tone plays a big part into it.

 

[MakingAComeback]

Great points by Adrizzle

But I wanna say: They are buying the homie colgate stuff, his vibe and energy must be improving

You can't be far off man

You also have said you are focusing on positivity, and this seems to have improved the qualitative outcomes

Same shit happened for me when I recently was advised to focus on the connection more, the girls bought me drinks and the dates were more fun, but this takes a while to integrate

That said

TELL 'EM THEY CAN BUY SOMETHIN' ELSE

THIS SHERWYN SAUSAGE

MAC

 

[Vice]

Focus of daygame is not to be bought food.

People buying you things is an excellent sign that you're doing well, but not an outright goal.

If you're out doing nightgame and frequently have people offering you drinks, that's a great sign and will happen more and more frequently.

I've also had starbucks employees and bartenders (of all genders and sexual orientations) comp me the drink because I was genuinely a good guy that was pleasant to interact with. Nothing to build a strategy off of, but it's a great indicator.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Whats the actual plan? What value are you bringing these girls? Is it possible that these instadates are not yielding results?

My original motivation for instadates and instadate pulls was seeing a guy in SF actually instadate+pull+smash 2 or 3 times from the mall. I read his stories and used that as a starting point.

I'm also trying to recreate this story: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29869#p29869

My current plan has been something along these lines. I finally kinda wrote it up 2 days ago but it's really a structure based on some of my more successful interactions and doing hundreds of approaches in the past month and a half. Not all of my approaches are like this, but this is usually what I end up doing:

0. hey, excuse me. very occasionally persist but not always.
1. open
2. introduce self, shake hands (good gauge of receptiveness. if girl is limp handing me i usually give her crap for it and if she's like uhh uhhhh, she usually ends up accelerating off. also some girls are like omg covid, and then i just say "OMG are u unvaccinated?????" and see how they take that joke). 20-30 secs

most approaches pretty much don't get past steps 0-2. i count "not getting past hey" as an approach btw because i literally have no idea how the girl will receive my approach. some guys don't. if you don't want to count those, take whatever numbers i report and slash it by 20-30%.

3. move girl over few steps, out of traffic area, put myself against wall - this is another gauge to see if she actually wants to continue the interaction or if she wants to leave. chat for 1-2 mins. <--- over this past weekend i think i literally had <20 approaches that got this far

if it's a group i'll go for contact. otherwise:

4. mention instadate idea (u like bubble tea?) (probably drinks are better tbh, there are some bars. nighttime "mood" might be better than something platonic like bubble tea/coffee/ice cream. dinner instadates seem to be a bit more spikey: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=30677#p30677, but i think drinks are probably the best. my wing K here has done that with some decent results)
5. ok well we should go get some
6. walk over to instadate spot and chat
7. bounce to listening to music outside
8. hey let's go listen to more music in my car. attempt makeout in car.
9. hey let's go to my place and chill/watch movies/blah blah

Originally, I tried just jumping directly from instadate to listening to music in my car. But that has never worked. Meanwhile, I've gotten 2/4 girls in my car from instadates if I prime it in the middle with something, and 2/2 from regular dates.

Couple things that are obviously missing:
1. no mention of escalation steps. i assumed i could just wing it but i'm very inexperienced. one thing i've observed lately is whenever i sit across from a girl and lock eyes with her, she starts investing in the interaction because basically she wants to alleviate the tension from me just gazing at her dead in the irises. has happened a few times recently, so i need to make sure to do that
2. how to do the actual conversation. i have a bunch of random ideas and advice from other guys and just wing it, but i think this should be incorporated into the plan because otherwise i just get into boring chat
3. the actual instadate spot. i have been getting girls to come across the street from the indoor mall to the outdoor mall since it seems to be a better indicator that she wants to invest in the interaction, and the outdoor mall looks nicer and it feels a bit more like a date. but there are also bars/restaurants there too, and alcohol might actually help me lol.

I don’t know how your flake rate from contacts is but I don’t think mall hang outs are a good place for anyone to put their best foot forward. My idea is that you want to give a girl an enjoyable experience/ and emotional spike. Idk maybe you got really cool malls in America but I don’t see this happening in the place she does groceries.

I'm 3 regular dates for like ~80 contacts since I moved to California. That's better than Nashville (1 for 100+) but worse than Austin (6-7 for 100+).

I've also brought 2 girls back from the college campus directly from an instadate, but only had 2 dates with 1 girl from there (airport chick).

And I can literally get more instadates than contacts on many days. So based on maybe picking up 10-15 contacts a week, I'd get a regular date every other week maybe. Not enough date volume.

Meanwhile, I get 5-10 instadates a week, so I have more volume there, and I've been able to isolate girls from those. Granted, regular dates are more likely to convert than instadates, but you have to get a good volume of regular dates in the first place lol. Also, they force me to learn how to ramp up the interaction in the moment.

The mall I approach in is pretty much a luxury clothing/jewelry bougie ass mall. There's also an outdoor mall across the street with $$$ restaurants and some bars. I should honestly be utilizing the bars for these instadates perhaps.

Maybe change up the approaching location if you haven’t before.

I do approach at the college campus which is right next to my place. But I don't want to burn it out because if you've read my log from late September, I did 250+ approaches in a week at a 7k private uni and got kicked off the campus, and probably since it's a college campus, the girls all told each other and I blackballed myself (I had several approaches where girls were like "u said that to my roommate!").

Had decent results at the campus in Austin. Toned myself down to maybe 100ish approaches a week at a ~50k campus, but back then I was actually playing regular date game and for whatever reason, girls were more willing to meet up with me back in November.

Here in California, I pick up a similar ratio of contacts from the campus here (1 in 3-5), but I've been getting incessantly ghosted. I think I've gotten 1 date from 30-40ish contacts. Perhaps I should actually be doing more volume there. There's also less friction for an instadate pull because my house is 2 blocks from the campus (and I've brought 2 girls back as I said earlier).

--

Lol, I just wrote this up and then remembered this article from Andy: https://killyourinnerloser.com/pickup-artists-are-theatrical-wizards/

A lot of my better interactions have been when I thought the girl was ULTRA HOT and that just made me totally locked into the interaction and forget about most "structure". But not every girl is ultra hot. There's like a tipping point for me when the girl is super hot, I just go all in with trying to get as far as I can with her. Maybe I should be playing sniper mode and only going for the hottest girls. Though I don't want to do that because sometimes certain girls will get me really turned on from being bubbly and giggly with their personality.

In my case, I don't really know what else I could possibly do to get closer to sleeping with girls in my current scenario. Feels like I have a lot more to work appearance-wise for online dating and taking photos will take the same amount of time as probably the time I'm spending with approach at this point.

I also don't have anything against hiring escorts but I'm realizing a lot of sexual attraction is the tension of not knowing where the interaction will lead in the first place and trying to build up to it. Otherwise, I could just go up to any girl like "hey u wanna fuck right now lol". So I don't really see that helping me self-development wise (online dating still requires you to actually build up to and escalate on the girl yourself, even if you can filter out more girls up front than cold approach).

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Focus of daygame is not to be bought food.

People buying you things is an excellent sign that you're doing well, but not an outright goal.

omfgggggg what was the point of even putting the disclaimer at the top of my log when u guys didnt even read it. also even if i didn't put it, should have come off as an obvious joke anyway, but it's like u didnt even read it omg.

Title of this post is a huge jk before anyone says I'm going off course. I'm aware.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

They are buying the homie colgate stuff, his vibe and energy must be improving

I actually think I have a far less noble explanation than the one you're thinking.

The Korean chick with the hamburger was pretty much an accident??? She outright said she wanted to buy me a hamburger.

The ones from today, however, the chick pulled out her credit card all ready to pay and I just didn't stop her or say anything. Just said "thank you" afterwards lol. Make of that what you will.