colgate - High Volume Approaching & Pulling / Pickup Hustle

[loki]

Voldemort fucked us up the same way huh

Maybe part of it is me trying to steamroll past open/closed body language and expressions because I thought it didn't matter, when it seems like it does. And also some stupid roadblock I have where I think I have zero control of the girl and there's nothing I can do to open her up once she's closed off.

Instead of being patient, pulling back, and continuing to build the connection, I just keep plowing along with the timer in the back of my head saying, pull at the 30 minute mark and if she refuses a couple pulls, cut her loose.

Basically why I lost today's instadate which I posted in the group chat.

Honestly, I think I do get pretty butthurt when it does happen. Like I feel like I lose interest just because she declined it initially and I start shutting down and getting cold. I don't think I do it overtly, but it kind of hits me in the same spot as probably how I acted when I was a kid and threw a tantrum when I didn't get what I wanted.

The worst case of this I've had was where the girl refused to pull 15 minutes in, and I literally had tears start welling up in my eyes, just like when I got rejected as a child. Thankfully I didn't actually cry (would be hilarious tbh) but my energy changed a lot and the girl felt it.

 

[countingsheep7878]

hey colgate read the last few longer posts and I have some ideas for you try. Seeding dates in person may help improve your flakiness or at least won't get a dead number because you will screen them out before they give you the number which they were going to ghost on.

Starting with normal approaches. When you go to close and get a number show her your phone and make sure you got the number right (insert some cute funny phrase around her name. My last one was Alexandra stylish picnic girl. This was referencing 2 call backs to our conversation. Another thing you can do is hand her your phone and have her put your number in.

Next; when you get her number ask her if she likes (insert what you want to do for a date, wine, bubble tea, coffee, margaritas etc) and then when she says she does respond with "okay great, we should get (insert thing you asked her if she liked) this week. What's your schedule like?" Get her to give you a date in front of you. Try to get the date within 3 days of your approach. You will get a lot less flakes that because either she won't commit to a date (which is usually her backing out) or she will commit to a date and you will text her about it. Make sure you text her a few hours later as well. Don't wait 2 days or whatever bullshit. Text her something simple like either Colgate (use your actual name) or "Hey (insert girls name, its Colgate from the mall " Then just make some small talk that same day (doesn't need to be a lot) and follow up the day of or day before to confirm the date. I like to you "so you pick out a cute outfit for our date yet?" as flirty way to get confirm. If the date is more then 3 days between when you met her then confirm the day before. If its within 3 days the late morning or early afternoon of the day of the date is fine.

Insta dates: So instadates don't need to be a pull and sex close to be a win. I think a ton of guys assume this but its not really the most common way to get the sex from the girl you cold approached. What the instadate can be really effective in is letting you have that first "date" so when you have your second date a pull or a date back at your place is even more solidified or more likely. So now you just need to seed the next date while you are on your instadate. its pretty much the same thing as above. Just about like 2/3 - 3/4 of the way through your instadate (maybe 10-30 mins in) you ask her if she likes "wine, house music, some comedy tv show, margaritas, chocolate covered strawberries etc and then say we should do that later this week. When you are free? Then get your next date lined up before you leave her in person.

Here are 2 examples of how it could go on the insta date (let's pretend you are getting tea or coffee on the insta date)

example 1.

You: So do you like wine? Or do you just stick to your bubble tea over there?
Her: I like wine
You: Oh ya, red or white?
Her: I like sweet whites.
You: My type of girl, we should split a bottle of white on my romantic balcony sometime this week.
Her: (this is a pivotal response) she may give an objection here, like I don't meet guys at their place that quickly or I'd prefer a public setting. Or she will just say sound good / sounds fun
You: just response with "no worries, I know an awesome bar that we can get a glass of wine at (pick a bar within walking distance of your place). Have you been to (insert bar)? if she gives an objection, if not see your next line below
Her: Nope
You: Nice we can explore it together, what nights are you free this week?
Her: Thursday and Satruday
You: Okay great, (pick your day of choice)

example 2.

You: I started watching this hilarious show called impractical jokers. Have you seen it?
Her: nope but I've heard of it.
You: Oh you have to check it out, it will change your life. we should watch it later this week and maybe have a drink.
Her: ya that would be cool (or she will tell you an objection). If she says, ya maybe or something non positive then just say "you don't sound that confident my dear." then get her to voice her objection. it will probably be meeting at your place so quickly but just use the same pivot to a bar or coffee shop near you if you get that objection.
You: If she says ya that would be cool. you say okay great, what nights are you free this week?
Her: Tuesday and Wednesday
You: Okay great, (pick your day of choice) and get her number

Lastly. I see you saying you are "throwing a hailmary" a lot in your posts about going for the kiss. You aren't supposed to go for hail marys you are supposed to be going for the first kiss on emotional high spikes of the date / interaction. That may mean its a bit earlier but don't just wait for the end when shit is going south and try to get her to kiss you that is nor optimal. If you have her on a high note say "woah your eyes jjust like sparkled, let me see them." lean in close and look at them (comment on their color) ask her if she can tell what color your eyes are right now and then just whisper either

1. "I really want to kiss you right now."
2. "i'm trying so hard not to kiss you right now"
3. "can I kiss you right now"

if she gives any response other then no or a quick move away then you kiss her right after that line.

Try to implement some of these tips and see if your success doesn't improve.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Thanks for the reply countingsheep7878

Seeding dates in person may help improve your flakiness or at least won't get a dead number because you will screen them out before they give you the number which they were going to ghost on.

I've done this before and noticed pretty much no difference in terms of flakiness unfortunately. Actually I tend to do this anyway and I pitch a date idea and if the girl doesn't seem down I don't go for the contact.

Starting with normal approaches. When you go to close and get a number show her your phone and make sure you got the number right (insert some cute funny phrase around her name. My last one was Alexandra stylish picnic girl. This was referencing 2 call backs to our conversation. Another thing you can do is hand her your phone and have her put your number in.

I don't think incorrect numbers were my issue. I used to actually just call myself on the girl's phone but I switched back to sending my name when I got the contact because it seemed pretty weird.

I've not gotten an instadate to meet up with me for a subsequent date before. And tbh I was only doing them because I wasn't getting any regular dates. I honestly think I'm doing something wrong on approaches and/or I don't meet the looks threshold for most of the girls I got a contact from.

I'm really not sure what's going on, which is another reason I'm moving back to Nashville and I'll be focusing way more on elite body and nightgame. I think nightgame basically exposes every social skills issue you have very plainly, and it's more likely there will be dtf girls on the spot.

Next time I get a date or I'm in some high tension situation I'll try your kiss advice.

 

[pancakemouse]

Insta dates: So instadates don't need to be a pull and sex close to be a win. I think a ton of guys assume this but its not really the most common way to get the sex from the girl you cold approached. What the instadate can be really effective in is letting you have that first "date" so when you have your second date a pull or a date back at your place is even more solidified or more likely. So now you just need to seed the next date while you are on your instadate. its pretty much the same thing as above. Just about like 2/3 - 3/4 of the way through your instadate (maybe 10-30 mins in) you ask her if she likes "wine, house music, some comedy tv show, margaritas, chocolate covered strawberries etc and then say we should do that later this week. When you are free? Then get your next date lined up before you leave her in person.

It's generally accepted in the daygame community that rapport instadates (where you don't pull in the moment) doesn't make a day2 measurably more likely.

Like colgate, I've never had an instadate lead to a subsequent date.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Feels nostalgic af to be writing "colgate's nashville log" for the subject again.

Moved in to Nashville last weekend, this time with Troy and lacroix. And I'll be here for the next 11 months.

My main goal now will be elite body. I'll be posting in my bulk log sporadically because I don't want to have a log that's just counting calories (omg just kidding goldfish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i love u). But I've been lifting weights 4x a week and going to the boxing gym 2x a week so far. Reason for the focus on elite body is because I literally want to be this guy and have girls react to me like this:
https://youtu.be/qiHvHIDnXEo?t=181

Guys here might say I already look attractive enough. And girls have even told me "omg don't get all muscly" blah blah. But I've met plenty of guys in game so far and have seen how much looks does impact results. For myself, I see focus on elite body equivalent to some obese guy losing fat, even if I might be of an average fitness level already.

It's not enough. I want girls to find me as irresistible as I find them right now.

Anyway, I knew moving in with two guys who also go out and game would also push me to do that as well, so I will also be focusing on nightgame. Because I'm in one of the best places to do nightgame, and I'm already somewhat familiar with it from being here back in October.

Nightgame
Lots of "holy shit I can't believe I'm back on Broadway" emotions walking down the street on Thursday night.

My last log involved me talking about how I don't like having conversation at night. Turns out I actually don't "hate conversation at night" at all, I just don't start off the night by genuinely having fun and enjoying myself.

We live in a time and age where you can literally exchange sheets of paper for inebriating drinks and dance to music recorded and produced on silicon bricks with flashing lights for the low price of showing up to a freaking club. Humanity is better than it's ever been. We'd all have to hunt for food 30000 years ago and be wondering if we'll even survive the next day. People literally show up to clubs and bars to celebrate the abundant society humans have achieved. And maybe the lack of awareness and even perhaps feeling like I contributed nothing to it personally (which isn't even necessarily true) translates into feeling like an alien at these places. But it's like, that doesn't matter. I still enjoy probably the most delectable fruits humanity has ever grown throughout history in the year 2022.

So my new mindset is literally just fistbump and cheers as many people as possible when I walk into a place. Doesn't matter if it's a guy or girl, young or old, just anyone. I'm walking into these places grateful that I live in a time where I can enjoy this kind of club environment in the first place.

Within like 2 minutes of the first place I walked into, some chick latched onto me and started drawing "tattoos" on me with a marker, introduced me to some of her friends, and then gave me a kiss on the cheek out of nowhere and I snapped it.

And I had several other conversations and approaches and got a couple snaps here and there. I won't literally document every interaction I had, but any feelings of "I hate talking to people at night" literally vanished when I walk into places trying to make myself known to as many people as possible and getting on the same celebration wavelength as everyone else.

Huge contrast from the ironically lonely nights I had in Nashville back in October where I felt I didn't understand these people in the first place. But I'm starting to see the stepping stones now.

 

[Spider Jerusalem]

colgate

Good luck in Nashville man - hoping to start a bulk myself very soon and may also post my progress with it on my log

Spider

 

[colgate / bulldog]

On Daily/Regular Logging
I was thinking to my time when I was in Nashville previously. Despite being depressed for most of the month after getting booted off the university campus and none of my contacts going anywhere, I was still going to the gym regularly, getting work done, keeping on track with my diet, and even still approaching girls at different venues semi-regularly, and trying to go out alone at night.

The fact that I logged all of it made me remember that I was doing all that because I honestly wouldn't have remembered otherwise, since that month felt like a total blur. And there were a few days I just posted something like "just posting this for accountability".

I've also seen how Spider Jerusalem bounced back after a long series of "continuity posts". Initially I thought, wait what's the point of this. Like why is the goal to just post on the forums every day. But then out of nowhere he starts going on a bunch of dates and getting hookups. Which made me realize that in one of my lowest times since I'd been on the forums, just logging what I did today at least made me feel like I had to be accountable for something, and I managed to still stay consistent with gym/diet and jettison back into action in November with dating.

I think maybe the reason I wasn't logging as much as I used to was some sense of "fuck, I always have to have some sort of story if I want to post on here...or else I don't have the right to post". Which is completely made up nonsense, but it is what I felt. I'm just not at that stage in my life, especially with dating, where I can just be like "hey I'm only going to post about cool stories on my log". It's also a disservice to myself, because I always read people's logs and wonder "how the fuck did they get to that point. how are they doing this shit." since you tend to start omitting out details of things you take for granted. The stories are cool and you love to hear them as motivation, but you're still always like "please tell me how the FUCK you got to this point".

Wasting my life
Which brings me to why I'm even writing this in the first place.

As I said in my previous post, I just moved into Nashville a bit over a week ago. I have been going to the gym (4x a week), boxing (2x a week), bulking (2300-2800 calories, 160g+ protein every day), and going out at night (3-4x a week).

But I know I'm wasting the rest of my time doing jack shit. It's mostly frying my own brain with watching YouTube videos all day. It literally feels like vaping again, minus the actual vape. In other words, I'm just pleasuring myself for doing nothing. Maybe it's more like I'm numbing my brain from confronting discomfort too, but it's not like my sedated self would figure that out in this state. Anyway, it's basically the same state I was in right before I made this post 2 months ago: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28745#p28745

What am I doing??? I need to get back into some sort of grind mode. I don't know with what, but I feel way better and shit just starts lining up when I'm actually grinding. And yeah I've been going to the gym and bulking blah blah, but that shit should just be part of my daily routine anyway, for the rest of my life. What am I doing with the other 10+ hours that I'm awake? Exactly.

Even if my effort->outcomes ratio is extremely low (in general) when I'm in grind mode, some good shit always happens. Since I've joined the forums it's gotten me exposed to a LOT of great guys I will be eternally grateful for, a bunch of dates (whereas I had zero in my life previously) and makeouts, and I know I've even gotten 2 dormant guys "back in the game" just from them seeing me hustle. And all my effort up until now has landed me in a place where I'm in 24/7 contact with one of the best mentors for dating and another guy who hustles as much as I do and takes the same amount of risks, and also happens to be conversely good at the things I need to work on. I've got a guaranteed 11 months in this position, so I've got to do my part in this.

I know I'm putting off many tasks and many things I want to start getting into, and wasting my time with pointless crap instead. It's not a matter of what tasks they are, but I'm not doing them because I'm satiating myself with YouTube videos.

Unlike vaping (where I replaced it with candy) and fapping (...I just talked to girls), I'm not really sure what to replace YouTube with. Maybe I'll go cold turkey (I've done that in the past and weaned myself off of it). But usually every time I've gone off of YouTube, it's because I had something else going on in my life (or I was getting free dopamine from elsewhere).

The only thing I can think of for now is starting a daily log again. I'm hoping the embarrassment of posting that I did jack shit will probably incentivize me to have more days I feel proud of, instead of days I feel I'm wasting.

(only excuse I have for the past 2 days is I somehow got super sick and spent all day sleeping yesterday. Still went to the gym. Ended up missing boxing today from sleeping, but decided to go to the gym late at night instead. Haven't really hit all my calories specifically in the past 24 hours though)

 

[MakingAComeback]

lets fucking go bro

will hold you accountable with the MOUSE 2 BULLDOG EFFORTS

the rest you will def work out

grinding is mandatory tho dude. you can watch youtube etc but why not consume the stuff that gets your mind and subconscious right so you SLAY in life

as you know I seldom have a minute free and grind my whole god damn life

theres pros and cons

MAC

 

[colgate / bulldog]

you can watch youtube etc but why not consume the stuff that gets your mind and subconscious right so you SLAY in life

Yeah, funnily enough that has been the majority of what I've been watching. Self-improvement videos, and motivational type content. Mainly Hamza Ahmed and the recent trend of "Zyzz inspirational" meme videos.

But a couple problems:
1. You can still watch "too much" good content, but still go nowhere. ie: you can delude yourself into thinking you're being "productive" and "this is fine" because it's "self-improvement related" without actually taking action.
2. I realized I fell back into just general entertainment, and watching way too much of that, in lieu of focusing on many tasks I have to do, such as work. I feel like if my days are just me wasting my own time, I become depressed, and that definitely starts to reflect in my interactions with people and my body language/behavior becomes avoidant in general, because I'm "guilty" of my "uselessness" in that moment

I mainly wrote the above post to see if holding myself accountable to daily logging will help with actually taking action again, especially when I haven't exactly figured out what it is. Though I have specific things I need to do outside of gym/diet/nightlife such as work and getting back with the other social circle I had here in Nashville. So it's probably going to be more freeform, but I don't want to come in here like "just watched 6 hours of YouTube guys but at least I went to the gym and ate my calories lol"

 

[colgate / bulldog]

I hate trying to portray myself as "omg I'm so different", but I've rarely found my archetype of socially disconnected here on the forums. I think the average person on the KYIL forums is very socially attuned and aware, and emotionally in touch, probably so socially attuned that it cripples them from even "taking action" in the first place.

On the other hand, in the daygame chat (where I'm basically dormant now), the chat is basically full of socially disconnected guys. So it made sense that I was initially allured to that group, not realizing a lot of the ideologies touted there are actually ineffective (which is something I probably would have realized if I wasn't so socially disconnected in the first place).

I have almost zero awareness of how my behavior comes off to other people. My communication skills are atrocious, and I bang my head at the wall as to why "doing x thing" is wrong. It's like I'm literally socially impaired, like borderline autistic, even though I'm not.

Whenever I read about or learn about "certain social skills", I always process it as "oh you just do this surface level thing and it works out?", and somehow when I ask that I always get the "no you're missing the point dude" response, and I'm continually flummoxed. Meanwhile, I endlessly toil away and have no idea what the fuck I'm doing is wrong. I'll get feedback and pointers from people and try to implement them, but ultimately even after implementing them it feels like that wasn't enough and then it's back to square one.

Like how can I be so fucking retarded socially to not pick up on basic emotions, especially from girls. From my point of view, in the moment, girls are just randomly into me, and then out of nowhere they just flip out of nowhere and lose all interest. And it's not just girls, I've had the same with friends before.

And then I can reflect on my actions and be like "okay, yeah I fucked up this specific thing here". And then I try to remember not to do that for next time, and perhaps progress past that point a little bit, but then I somehow always take the worst possible path again, and fuck the next step up too, and then I tumble down and crash 5 steps back and I have to try to figure out how to not only get back to where I was previously, but be faced with the same problem I had earlier again. I guess the entitlement of "well I'm this far though, so why am I so far behind, I need to catch up" gets me really impatient, and then I become super sloppy trying to claw back to where I was previously, but because I'm being so sloppy, my "results" are even worse than before.

^wow writing the above paragraph made me realize this issue permeates beyond dating and girls and is a huge reason I tend to brickwall at a lot of things in general.

 

[Toast]

I think picking up on social queues is a skill that can be polished.
Walking around with the people I met yesterday they were talking about similar things and I was oblivious to what they were saying.
Its a good start that you are aware of what you are lacking cuz that means you can only improve from here.

I essentially have to relearn all my social skills here in japan cuz Japanese chicks react quite differently then in America. So were somewhat in the same boat. My convos are extremely stale and limited, and I do a lot of American things that put chicks off.

You will get there soon I'm sure. You have surrounded ur self with great mentors and other practitioners so just soak it all in while u can.

 

[1v1mekid]

As I said in my previous post, I just moved into Nashville a bit over a week ago. I have been going to the gym (4x a week), boxing (2x a week), bulking (2300-2800 calories, 160g+ protein every day), and going out at night (3-4x a week).

But I know I'm wasting the rest of my time doing jack shit...

70% of the population can't stick to a diet and training program to save their lives(literally.. heart disease/diabetes). 99% of guys don't approach women. Also, aren't you like a software engineer? That doesn't sound like jack shit to me.

I have almost zero awareness of how my behavior comes off to other people. My communication skills are atrocious, and I bang my head at the wall as to why "doing x thing" is wrong. It's like I'm literally socially impaired, like borderline autistic, even though I'm not.

Whenever I read about or learn about "certain social skills", I always process it as "oh you just do this surface level thing and it works out?", and somehow when I ask that I always get the "no you're missing the point dude" response, and I'm continually flummoxed. Meanwhile, I endlessly toil away and have no idea what the fuck I'm doing is wrong. I'll get feedback and pointers from people and try to implement them, but ultimately even after implementing them it feels like that wasn't enough and then it's back to square one

You're probably not as bad as you think. I read an old post about how you fingered some girl in your car you met cold approaching? You're probably not too far off. Also, is that like a PUA group? Maybe stick to ye olde GLL fundamentals: Look good, talk to girls.

"Hi, you're cute. Handshake." 30s conversation. Ask for contact, leave. Meetup rate from day game numbers will always be crap. Doesn't matter if you 5 min conversation where you dhv'd, push pulled, kinod her or had a 30s conversation.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Literally failed the "do a daily post" thing after 2 days. You can see why I usually don't like saying what I'm going to do before I actually do it. Anyway, I have a lot of shit in my life to sort out logistically (routines, priorities, etc) and hopefully I'll be able to come on here and say I've got it more or less together (like I did back in August-September when I first joined the forums). Only things I've been consistently doing are going to the gym and eating enough calories.

Anyway mainly came on here to post about this nightgame session I just had.

Nightgame
I kissed 3 girls in one night over 30 approaches with the line "I've never kissed a girl before. Do you want to be my first?". But the real first was that I got slapped in the face.

I know more experienced guys at night are like "ugh nothing tonight just a bunch of makeouts and numbers" but I'm nowhere close to that stage yet.

Before I went out tonight, lacroix and I were literally watching the weebiest possible high school slice of life anime for hours and shooting the shit.

But he's had an obligation to himself to do GLL nightgame drills every day this weekend. I've not been focusing on approach at all lately because I'm trying to do more self-improvement instead for a while, but I've tagged along on a few sessions. Tonight I decided I would just also do the same drills.

We did the drills and then decided to just come up with random challenges/drills for each other. lacroix had the idea of "how about for the next Asian girl you see, you go up and tell her you've never kissed a girl and you want her to be your first kiss. then I'll do the same". Note that we're in Nashville, so there's probably 1 Asian girl for every 60+ non-Asians.

In the meanwhile we had come up with stuff like "go talk to that group of girls halfway in the line and try to cut by just talking with them a bunch" and "let me get a picture with you to make my ex jealous". We also went back and forth with the kissing line when we saw the wild Asian girl. But at some point we just decided to just do the "I've never kissed a girl before" line on any girl, and we'd do it 5 times each.

lacroix ended up kissing some white girl standing by herself drinking outside by a lightpole on his like 3rd approach. We were both like "holy fuck that actually worked???" and lacroix told me that I'd get the same if I did it over at least 20 approaches. So I got to work.

There was this group of girls taking some pics so I approached one of them with the line. One of the girls was like "that's nasty!" and I just looked at her and said "no it's not". Immediately I got a pretty solid whack to the face and I dipped.

It kind of put me in overdrive for a bit, but then around 14~16 approaches in, I started feeling demotivated. But I was like well I literally just saw this work right in front of my eyes so let's keep pummeling anyway.

I approached some cute black trio. The girl's friend started pushing her to kiss me and so we kissed. Then I was basically like "hey lacroix it freaking worked holy shit!!!!!" and he pushed me to get a snapchat from them like "okay this is like 100% chance rejection, but do it anyway". So I went up and asked for her snap and got rejected, and they walked off but not a minute later they turn around, and the third girl in the group is like "hey she wants a kiss too!!!!", referring to the girl that pushed her friend to kiss me. So I got 2 of the 3 girls from that trio.

A few approaches later, I had made 2-3 seconds of solid eye contact with an even cuter black chick with her background npc white friend. I approached. She was like "really? you've never had your first kiss?". I said "yeah" while looking at her in the eyes and she brought my chin into her and actually gave me a really good kiss, like it was the first few seconds of a makeout. It was like god damn alright. (the other two were like basically closed mouth lip touches).

There was more random crap that happened throughout the night but I don't feel like writing every single thing that happened so that's it for now lol.

 

[MakingAComeback]

King Colgate in the house

 

[jackBruh]

I have almost zero awareness of how my behavior comes off to other people. My communication skills are atrocious, and I bang my head at the wall as to why "doing x thing" is wrong. It's like I'm literally socially impaired, like borderline autistic, even though I'm not.

Try a retail job. Worked for me and my anxiety. Endless supply of people to practise interactions with and it's super easy. You could advance to promoting or other more social jobs later. But to get the basics it's a pretty good start

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Since most of what I've been doing is trying to bulk and I'm not really doing anything special, I'll just be doing updates whenever I run into something big for me.

Last night, Troy brought home 2 white girls from nightgame while lacroix and I were just chilling on the couch. They seemed to be in "party" mode so we just hung out in the kitchen for a bit and took some shots.

One girl then pointed at each of us like:
(at Troy): ur calm
(at lacroix): ur calm
(at me): ur nervous

lol uh, I mean she wasn't wrong. But it was like she was aware of that before even I was actively aware of it myself. And if you've seen my log, this isn't the first time I've run into a girl who's perceptive and verbalizes exactly what she thinks I'm feeling to me.

I didn't even have any intent of "making anything happen", I was just trying to be social. But the mere presence of girls (even not really my type) just automatically made me nervous and closed-off I suppose. Not a minute prior to these girls entering, lacroix and I were literally (jokingly) complaining about how we wanted to be in Asia and we were simping over random Asian girls on YouTube/Instagram, completely relaxed, and then these girls came out of nowhere.

Anyway, the girls put on some music and when there's music playing, I have a habit of subtly grooving to the beat. The girl noticed it and started cheering me on and I started dancing a little bit in the kitchen. Then lacroix went to sit on the couch and Troy started talking to the other girl and it was just me and the "perceptive" girl.

She was complimenting my body and feeling my thighs and my muscles. Strangely, this did nothing for me. I didn't feel "less nervous" or "better", but I didn't feel worse either. Then she was asking why I was so nervous and tense. I joked around it saying how I'm a swimmer and in the water I'm completely fluid and etc blah blah.

^ Quick tangent, I think her compliments didn't make me feel anything partially because the girl wasn't really my type, but more importantly I don't feel like I'm anywhere close to where I want to be regarding looks. So I realized that maybe while some people find me attractive, I don't find me attractive yet. And I honestly don't want to just do the mindset exercises where you tell yourself you're attractive because I would rather just be super bulky and jacked. I don't want girls to think I'm attractive, I want girls to find me hot, irresistible, like they can't control themselves around me. I think I finally understand the feeling a lot of other guys feel when they "don't deserve it" regarding girls being attracted to them. I suppose you need to reach your own standards regarding looks before you can actually enjoy validation from it.

Also, another reason I don't "feel much" about compliments regarding my looks is because I've gained a new habit of thinking "oh you think I'm attractive now. but when are you going to flip and realize I'm weird. when are you going to block me from escalating. when are you going to stop feeling attracted to me when I try to do anything". That's what many of my experiences have been over the past 9 months.

Anyway, eventually us 5 went to the balcony. More random shooting the shit, but Troy was really close with the other girl. The perceptive girl wasn't particularly with me but I wasn't really dominating the interaction anyway. Later, lacroix went to his room and not long after Troy went to his room with the other girl so it was just the two of us.

I was playing some music from my laptop and we were dancing in the living room and she was grinding on me for a bit. But then we went to the balcony and started having some "deep conversation" about some bs that I don’t really remember. She kept telling me I'm "too intense" and I need to "let go". I wasn't even trying to escalate much because I was literally trying to chill out. I did try to get closer to her on the balcony and “take it slow” but she started pushing me away with “I’m with someone~~” while continuing the “deep conversation”.

Later we sat on the couch and listened to some more music for a bit and she was putting her hands on my thigh and etc but when I tried to put my arm over her she pushed it away. So I just decided to go to my room with my laptop. But she followed me into my room.

Then her friend texted her that “we need to leave…now…” (she showed me the text convo). I guess she didn’t want to keep going further with Troy or something so the girl I was with knocked on Troy’s door and then those 3 walked out of the apartment while I stayed back.

While they were walking about the girl I was with was apparently giving Troy weird looks and said “so what was THAT about?” I don’t remember the exact words but I think she was referring to me, maybe also whatever was going on in Troy’s room, I don’t know. But more importantly, I think a lot of her reactions were about me.

You have to be a normal guy
I wrote up this experience because it revealed to me directly from a girl herself what I should be working on. I can’t deny that this girl was attracted to me physically, yet completely turned off by my vibe.


Here’s a picture of me from 2017. Never lifted a weight in my life and couldn't even do a pullup. Obviously, I look way more attractive now than I did in this picture. But my personality is still this weirdo. It’s like this girl from last night saw my outward appearance, but it almost didn’t matter because my behavior ended up somehow coming off like this guy. And truth be told, I really haven’t changed that much personality-wise from this guy.

People on the forums and in real life have repeatedly told me that my looks are really not holding me back as much as I think they are, rather my vibe and behavior are. I thought that you could get away with “any vibe” if you look elite. And I’m certainly nowhere close to elite, but I’m only holding myself back by trying to completely ignore working on basic social skills.

Here’s a random list of things I need to work on specifically:
- Stop getting overly excited and suddenly talking loudly out of nowhere (probably due to overstimulation). I think I talk loudly often in general because I’ve felt no one would pay attention to anything I’m saying otherwise.
- Stop dragging out syllables like I’m from California and gay. I have no clue why I somehow have a weird gay accent, maybe it’s just from naturally being timid and liking feminine energy (oh I’m the gay one? But u like watching sweaty dudes wrestle it out on a mat….. I like watching cute Chinese cartoon girls have fun)
- Understand basic “social structure” and small talk. To contrast, I feel way more confident speaking Japanese (at least initially), because the first 2-5 minutes of the conversation are always the same and predictable for me (omg ur Japanese is so good lol!!!! How long have u learned it??? Where did u learn it?? Why did u learn it????), plus I get a bunch of positive feedback literally just for speaking the language. In English, I feel like I have to crawl my way to “ok this guy is cool”, since I’m not automatically “cool” for demonstrating fluency in a foreign language I’m not expected to know. Until I feel anywhere close to “comfortable” I’m basically “nervous and intense” like the girl was saying.
- Stop interrupting people. I think I do this for two reasons: either I think the other person is going on a tangent that’s not related to the topic of discussion (even though I do that all the time!), or I’m so insecure that I’ll forget what I have to say, if I don’t say it now, it will never be said.
- Being generally inconsiderate. I’m naturally insensitive because I’ve felt like no one gave a shit about “my feelings” so I learned how to naturally block out a lot of information that I don’t want to process as “noise”. The “upside” is I don’t get offended by much, and I’m completely numb to loud noises (I can sleep anywhere). This is probably why I ended up “getting over” approach anxiety very quickly and could blast out dozens of approaches every day for months, I just don’t pick up on as much information that other people do that would make me anxious in the first place. But I’ve discovered this is a coping mechanism, because when I am aware of something, I get overly stimulated and hyper-anxious about it. And my general social anxiety has actually increased lately in novel ways as a direct result of experiences I’ve had over the past 7ish months. This is a good thing, I have to gain awareness. You could think of my situation as I started a step behind approach anxiety; I wasn’t even aware of what could make people anxious in the first place (and as a result, did a lot of things to make girls uncomfortable without being aware of it).

I just thought of some things off the top of my head I’ve been repeatedly told over the years that somehow have never changed. Like I’d been hearing some of them since I was a teenager from my parents, from my friends in college. The reason I have so much resistance to improving these things is because I’ve told myself it’s too hard. How can I always be conscious of it??? How do you even address some of these things, it’s so vague?

I had to force myself to sit down and write these things down in this log so I can’t forget it. Of course I still will work towards getting an elite body because that’s just part of my daily routine. But the majority of my self-improvement should be targeted towards fixing the above.

 

[1v1mekid]

So I realized that maybe while some people find me attractive, I don't find me attractive yet. And I honestly don't want to just do the mindset exercises where you tell yourself you're attractive because I would rather just be super bulky and jacked. I don't want girls to think I'm attractive, I want girls to find me hot, irresistible, like they can't control themselves around me. I think I finally understand the feeling a lot of other guys feel when they "don't deserve it" regarding girls being attracted to them...

There's a latency period after losing weight fast or, in your case with the gear, gaining muscle fast where you still feel like a skinny kid with no muscle or flabby with fat even though you look better. I'm experiencing this now too.. I've lost about 25lbs over the past 6 months and I feel fat and unattractive still. It's slowly starting to kick in. But this isn't my first rodeo where I let myself go and then get back in shape.

You'll just slowly get more and more compliments from girls and more looks, your friends and relatives will start telling you more and more stuff like, "omg have you been working out" and you'll just start to feel better about your body.

Try a retail job. Worked for me and my anxiety. Endless supply of people to practise interactions with and it's super easy. You could advance to promoting or other more social jobs later. But to get the basics it's a pretty good start

This helped me loads too.

 

[King Approach]

Bro, I'm Japan right now, it ain't that great... I got thrown into a quarantine hotel for testing positive and it sucks ass .

But yeah, keep going bro. When the girl is saying your nervous maybe just try agree and amplify next time? Just own it and be like "fuck yeah, I'm nervous. I'm a fucking virgin too, what you gonna do about it?". Don't know if you tried denying it and got all defensive and reverted into your own little shell, but if you did that is definitely the worst thing you can do. I think she was primarily checking to see if she can get you to feel insecure about yourself, which is an unattraction trigger and a sign of weakness. I.e. a shit test. It sounds like you may have failed the test.

At the end of the day, who gives a fuck about what some probably drunk bimbo had to say about you. You may also be reading too much into what she thought of you. I.e. you not being in your own frame. This is also related to failing shit tests.

So your a little weird? Fucking own it is what I say.

Just my .02, but let me know if I missed the mark.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

May has been my worst month so far regarding dating/self-improvement since I've joined the forums. Work has been cracking down on me slacking off. Have been continually using it as an excuse to skip boxing for the past 3 weeks and not go to social events/meetups and other things I should be doing. I've been barely hanging onto eating enough calories and going to the gym 4x a week and taking my roids shots.

pancakemouse helped me tweak my Tinder profile a bit and I've been getting 2-3 matches per day consistently for the past 4 days or so. Which is enough for me to get started with practicing messaging girls and getting into online dating. Online dating has somehow been more intimidating to me than cold approach, because I have no congruence regarding "what I'm supposed to be messaging girls", especially past the opener. I have enough resources and mentors to help me though, so the only thing stopping me now is myself.

I most definitely could balance work and also take my goals seriously. But I also know that if I didn't have work, I would no longer be able to use it as an excuse and would likely start taking myself seriously again.

So, I'm going to start with this: I need to go to boxing 10 times in the month of June, or else I will quit my job. I've told my groups this privately, but I'll post it here on the forums too.


I'm doing this bet because either I will be forced to figure out how to balance work and self-improvement/dating, or it's goodbye to the job. I have enough savings to not have a job so money isn't an issue, but the only "negative" might be that finding a new job will be slightly more difficult in my field as I'll have a gap in experience. But I'll figure it out.

 

[Pluto]

OP, I am kind of going through some of what you are, especially in regards to work and wishing I could focus even more on game, fitness, and hobbies. However, I did have some advice for you after reading this page and the last, particularly around social life and women. I got a lot to say about this.

Dating/Pickup.

The one thing I recommend you do before you even go out (daygame or nightgame) is pay close attention to what you are putting into your mind. I used to listen to intense music which gave me dark thoughts before I went out and that made me give off a bad vibe. Instead, the change I have made is that before heading out, I either listen to some comedy/standup or just content from a respected dating coach with a good vibe to them. I highly highly highly recommend Todd Valentine, I can't stand most dating coaches but this man has changed my game.

I'd also recommend AG Hayden, he has a great video on daygame that about 50 min long. He speaks about how to approach to come off as more calibrated and how to see daygame itself, I say that it is a must watch for anyone daygaming.

Now the next thing is, I think it would benefit you if you didn't focus as much on volume. Guys brag about doing 30+ approaches in a day or night or approaching every single day but that its not that great for your game long-term. I used to do high volume as well, especially with nightgame, and what I realized is that while it helped me get over approach anxiety, it didn't help me develop much past that. My social awareness sucked because I was just spam approaching and not paying attention to the situation at hand.

I think that saying the same line over and over again while doing high volume is detrimental to long-term success in game.

Most of all, I never learned how to truly vibe with people because in my head I was like "do X number of approaches". This year, I changed that.

I decided that instead of spam approaching, especially during daygame, I will slow down and be picky about who I approach. The immediate change I started to notice is that I had legit numbers now and dates that panned out as well as repeat sex with a woman I met from daygaming. I used to think that if I didn't do 10 approaches, my day was a failure. Instead, I now go out to enjoy the day, see various stores, observe the environment (without being creepy), and as the opportunity presents itself I approach.

Not only has it helped me get laid, it also has me treating every daygame session as a way to learn about people in general because I observe the environment more without constantly thinking in my head "must do X number of approaches".

In fact, even though I do less than 10 approaches, it gives me a great chance later on to evaluate each approach I do, see what I could have done better, and incorporate that the next time I go out. It's gone from daygame being a necessary evil to me to something I have fun with now!

Social skills in general and interacting with people.

OP, I recommend Improv instead of getting a retail job. You already have a job and most retail/hospitality jobs are miserable as hell (I've been in one before). Do Improv at a group near you, they will teach you all about interacting with people. I recommend "How To Win Friends and Influence People" as a book but the number one thing you can do immediately with social skills is make it more about them. Listen when they speak, let them continue to speak, and then ask open-ended questions (that can't be answered with a yes or no) whenever they finish.

So when someone is saying how much their job sucks and goes off on a tangent about it, immediately ask them something open ended such as "so how has the search for a new job been going?". Just that switch itself will do wonders. Make it about them, people love to talk about themselves and they will love you (as a friend) when you do that. I don't recommend this when you game though!

Job/work

Right there with you bro. I want to quit my job too and I have enough to get me by for the rest of the year but seriously think this through man. Like for example, I know that if I am unemployed, I'll have to find a way to get decent enough health insurance in the case something happens to me. With a recession looming, I doubt the job market is going to be hot for long with a lot of big companies laying people off left and right.