DISCONTINUED THREAD: Social freedom community challenge

[ninjaboynaru]

Love the idea of social freedom, not so much burning down bridges with family and demonstrating a lack of social competence and restraint around them.

I like offwego s ideas.
I'd add
1) Stop x number of strangers and tell them one of your insecurities
2) Ask strangers to take a photo with you (may make some good dating profile pics)

 

[RogerRoger]

Reply as a reminder for myself to check this out later. Appreciate the tag and hope the social freedom challenges are paying dividends for you

KYIL community challenge: Deliberate acts of social defiance

What‘s up dudes. A big aspect of reaching any significant goal is ignoring naggers and normies. You oftentimes have to break social norms to get what you want.

The retardo stuff you do during the AA program is a superb example of this. Anyone who has done it can attest that after doing some of the weirder days, one‘s social freedom skyrocketed and one's view on the world fundamentally changed.

However, humans are very much prone to re-adapt to social norms, to mentally subordinate to the group. You might have broken your mental blocks temporarily in one area, but this does not mean that you have forever broken the general habit of social obedience. Having this habit will continue holding you back from reaching your goals.

Staying mentally/socially free requires repeated acts of deliberate social defiance.

The purpose of this thread is to collect ideas for such actions and challenge one another to go through with them.

I think it would be most fun to pick 1 idea per month by vote and then everyone who is down does it and documents it here on this thread.

((I’m tagging a bunch of people who I think will love or hate this challenge. You should do it either way.))
@KillYourInnerLoser @Radical @Manganiello @Toast @Sprezza @offwego @Crisis_Overcomer @chocolate @colgate @Suave1 @Thebastard @Holden @Noself @RogerRoger @Master @pancakemouse @Vice @lacroix @Adrizzle @SamJ_ @Dewm @goldfish

Shoot your ideas down in the thread. Make sure it‘s things that scare you shitless. It should be the kind of ideas that if you go through with them, others will either think you are insane or will think you are a god.

Current idea collection (occasionally updated with your ideas in this thread)

• wearing a borat costume on the most crowded place in the city

• tell your parents (or even grandparents?) about the last five people you have slept with

• ask 20 strangers to give you 5$ (begging)

• write "pussy please" on a cup, and go out with it and approach 20 chicks telling them you are desperate and need some pussy and whether they would like to donate (pussy beggar challenge)

• wear a Santa hat while doing 15 pushups in 5 random public places, like subways, foodplaces and so on

• wear a Santa hat while doing 15 burpees in 5 random public places, like subways, foodplaces and so on

• Cut the line to the club

• Cut in front of people waiting at the bar and command the bartenders attention better.

• interrupt some guy poorly hitting on a girl

• Hard stop a group of girls going the opposite direction on the street

• Jaywalk and don’t wait at stoplights if there are no cars (is this a joke? can't tell)

• Take the entire bottle of tobasco at chipotle with your to go order

• Ask someone to carry something for you as if you’ve known them (coworker-like rapport levels)

• give 3 people genuine complements. Not just “hey I like your hair”. More like “hey your curly red hair is gorgeous it reminds me of the wind at night”. Really get your creative language going

• give 5 girls a flower/rose. A friend of mine did this ages ago. No explanation “this is for you”

• for all the camera boys, ask 5 people to take their photo and send it to them. If they ask why say you like their style. Also when you do this direct them a bit.

• walk backwards towards a girl WHILE approaching and scream/shout loudly "Bwuoh" before approaching, just to get that social adrenaline rush going.

• go to a city centre wearing a diaper

• go door to door offering to clean windows, declutter rain gutters, lawn care, pressure washing, etc. shit that you need 0 skill/education and could start doing today

I will make a vote every month. If I fall off the train of self improvement or forget, someone else can create the voting link.

To be nobody but yourself – in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you someone else – means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting.

– e.e. cummings

 

[CainGettingLaid]

I told my parents about my last five sexual partners (February social freedom challenge)

I call my parents like every couple of weeks. This time I proposed seeing each other via video call, because I wanted to see their facial expressions. We started off the conversation just regularly about everyday stuff.

Then at some point I brought up the topic. I prefaced it by saying something like:

• We have an good and honest relationship and there is one taboo topic

• I have spend my last year and also this focusing on my sex and relationship life. Since this is such a big part of my current life, I want to give you a look into it

• Doing this is scary for me

Then I dropped the bomb and told them that that is why I want to tell them about the last five women I have slept with.

They were listening with pretty neutral facial reactions, but a bit of a surprised look.

Then I told them about the first girl (the furthest back of the five). About each of them, I mentioned: Name, age, how I met them, how long I slept with them in what form of relationship (all FWB), and whether I‘m still in contact with them. I also mentioned if the girls developed emotions for me.

After the first girl I asked them whether they wanted to say something and that I didn't want to give them a 20 min monologue. They asked like whether I wanted to know their opinion. I said yeah that or any reaction or questions. My mom asked why I didn't want a relationship.

The rest of the conversation consisted of interwoven aspects of three areas

• me giving my motivations to this journey of casual sex

• me continuing to tell them about the five girls

• them giving me their opinions and advice

My motivations

• avoiding dependence upon one girl because of a lack of options

• making new experience

• I admitted upon them asking that there is an aspect of protecting myself from getting hurt in the past. I told them about the two most painful experiences

• gathering experience

• creating my own vision of a sex life because I lack a father figure in my family in that domain. This made me hesitate for a second but I actually told them. Like wtf I told my dad that he was an insufficient father figure, sheeeeet. I put it into context that I do have role models in them for a good long-term relationship but that neither my father nor one of my grandpas was any type of role model applicable for modern dating

• I told them that the relationship and honestly norms that have been taught and practiced in my family cannot be applied to the girls I meet. These girls usually have a different background and experiences and assign a different value to the relationship between us. I got burned multiple times by assuming they saw the girl saw the dynamic similarly as I and were as honest as I

• figuring out what kind of girl I‘d like to be with long term and that many of the ones I have been with don‘t fall into that category

• stats about how many couples are unhappy or cheat on each other. Told them that I had doubts whether I would ever get married

Their opinions and advice

• they could absolutely not wrap their hands around the fact that I was sleeping with 2 girls at the same time and that the girls knew about each other. Biggest mindfuck for them, especially my mom was flustered by it

• my mom told me she thinks that almost all girls are looking for a relationship and this will hurt them. She also says though that it‘s their own fault if they agree to this

• she said if I do not go into a committed relationship, then I will miss the chance for depth of a relationship

• my mom explained to me that the perspective of hers and my dad on their relationship is quite different from mine. She said my mindset is like „I should be happy and my partner should be happy, each individually“. She said that their understanding of a relationship is much more about servicing each other. Also their overall view of relationships is grounded in Christian religion, therefore they simply believe that humans have an inbuilt desire for a single partner and that this is the way it is supposed to be.

• my mom said I will be missing a sense of home

• my mom doubts that I will be getting happyness from this. She fears it will instead leave behind an inner vaccuum

• my dad said that without vulnerability there can be no depth. By not committing one protects oneself from being hurt, but one is also missing on depth. The vulnerability is the price you pay. And you can never know in advance whether you will get hurt

• my dad said concerning the marriage/long-term relationship part that it is incredibly valuable to have someone in the long-term to go through life with, especially when you get old. He said this is very important for mental health and that I will miss that if I don‘t have it

• my dad also suggested that it‘s difficult to interpret statistics on the relationship between relationships and happiness and that they can be misleading. I agreed.

• my mom said that I should abandon the idea of finding a very well fitting partner. She believes there is not „the one“ not even a small number of fitting partners. She told me that there is a book titled (translated from German) „love yourself and it does not matter who you marry“ and that she very much agrees.

It was a very constructive and non-hurtful conversation that lasted for about 50 min (the sex part). At the end we thanked each other, me to my parents for them taking it well and not figuratively chasing me out of the house and my parents thanked me for my openness. They told me that I can live my life as I want and that everyone has to make their own experiences. They said they are looking forward to see how I view this topic in 2, 4, 6 years.

I decided not to tell my grandparents, which was an option in this challenge. Why?

With my parents, telling them has the potential to change something for the positive in our relationship. It becomes more honest and in the mid-to-long term, this might improve the depth of the relationship. Also, I will be more able to unashamedly live my life without hiding a part of myself.

My grandparents (3 remaining) are all 82 or 83 years old and their health is rapidly declining. There is no mid-to-long term with them, so the prospect of them knowing is less fruitful.

Also, I was afraid it would absolutely destroy my grandparents worldview. My parents are DEEPLY conservative, it was quite the mindfuck for them. They were virgins until marriage (not kidding). But I think for my grandparents it would be another level.

With my grandparents, I was never really close (they lived in a different city) and also never felt the need to justify my life to them. So opening up deeply about this topic would be kind of random. In contrast, with my parents I talk about almost anything except sex. So bringing up this topic was sensible in the way our relationship works.

JUST DO IT

Anyways, don‘t let this keep you from doing it yourself, this might just be MY fear talking. Also, your relationship with your parents and grandparents might be entirely different from mine. Maybe you don‘t talk about anything with your parents. Well, then maybe this can be the start to you doing so. Give it a shot!

I was scared of doing this, this is normal. First, I postponed it towards the end of the month. Then I texted my mom suggesting a video call. Then, when she suggested the same day afternoon my mind went into flight mode for a second because I had expected to schedule it in the following days. I calmed down and decided to do it the same day. Nothing bad happened. Most of the horror scenarios that are in your head will actually not be that bad and most of them will not even occur. It's just your fear talking. JUST DO IT!

Good luck bros!



Replies

I really like the concept although I think asking strangers for money is a no-go because it's potentially illegal and could get someone to call the cops on you.

In which country do you live? Begging is only illegal in very few countries and usually only under certain conditions (coercing others, organized begging, or such). Anyways, if it truly is illegal in your country, I suggest you skip that month should it ever win the vote.

OP, the telling your parents about who you've fucked and begging for money thing are kinda negative sum behavours. Ideally what we do in public gives value rather than taking it away.

I think a few of the ideas in this thread have a negative slant which I’m not down for.

I just really don't want to divulge my sex life to my sweet conservative grandma

Love the idea of social freedom, not so much burning down bridges with family and demonstrating a lack of social competence and restraint around them.

All for social freedom.

Not for being a dick. I also don't care for being weird for no reason.

To be clear, I mean actually being a dick. I don't mind pissing off fucktards who are extra sensitive.

I wanna do social freedom shit that's fun or has a point, not stupid shit like walking backwards and saying "bwah"

(...)

A few of the things on the list are good, but tbh I don't like 75% of it. No point, or it's just being a dick for no reason.

I don't see how this gives you more social freedom. It just makes you that weird uncle in the family.

I'm gonna bunch-reply to your posts because most of them contain a similar gist.

First off, objections like yours are the reason why I made this a vote. If a lot of people have fundamental objections to one of the options, it is unlikely that it will win the vote.

Second, be VERY MUCH AWARE, that your objections might just be rationalizations of your fear talking. If you have done the AA program or anything similar you will know that it is almost always just bullshit your mind makes up on the run as a defense mechanism so you do not confront your fears.

This is not to say that it can never be the case that your fear speaks the truth. As you can see in my post above I also decided that telling my grandparents about my past five sex partners was a bad idea, so I contemplate these questions as well. But you can also see from my example how telling your parents can work, even if they are super conservative. It isn't necessarily negative sum and it doesn't necessarily make you the creepy uncle.

Your family dynamics might be different, so it's up to you. But really, ask yourself this deeply, honestly, and repeatedly: Is it not mainly your irrational social fear talking?

The funny thing is that this would be easier for me than 90% of the suggestions.

Then do it.

 

[MILFandCookies]

I’m not afraid.

In fact earlier in my journey I did tell my parents about all my experiences for similar reasons.

I confronted all my fears because I thought it was important to be the guy who can ignore fear.

I speak from experience.

Fear DOES mark paths for growth much of the time. But sometimes we’re just afraid of something - or more accurately adverse to something. While it might not make sense, there’s no growth to be had by confronting it.

This is one of them.

Your effort is better spent skydiving or being more direct with girls, or doing more bold things with girls (instadates, public sex etc.)

Behind THOSE fears is growth and good times.

All you’ve done is unnecessarily brought weird emotions into your familial relationships.

Maybe this is a lesson you need to learn by making mistakes though, so if all I’m saying is not making any sense to you, go ahead and make the mistakes you want to make. Ignore my advice. You’ll come to the same conclusion I’ve come to at some point anyway.

 

[loki]

IMO the point of social freedom is to do what you want regardless of others' opinions, provided it's not unethical.

I think it could be correctly argued that telling your parents about your sex life, or walking around outside in a diaper, or stealing tiny shit from restaurants isn't unethical.

But how is any of that stuff that you want? Like aside from the meta-level novelty of doing something you don't actually want to do.

We do cold approach because we want to fuck girls and vice versa. We high-five strangers because it's fun for both of us. We do push-ups on the sidewalk because it's free exercise and no one else is really inconvenienced.

The point of gaining social freedom is to use it towards advancing these types of life goals, and I'm not sure doing weird irrelevant shit helps with that.

---

And yeah I could tell both of my parents about my sex life. They basically already know I cold approach and fuck. They're conservative and disagree but love me regardless.

I have no hesitation in telling them this stuff if I were to gain something from it.

But I'm 90% certain that they'll just complain about it to me and bring it up in the future at unrelated times and generally be annoying to me over it, just like with other life choices I've had. What the fuck do I gain from that?

 

[Squilliam]

Then do it.

I could, but it feels pointless. As september said, what does this accomplish?

Also, I've only fucked 4 people. So I wouldn't be able to tell them about 5. Also, easier =/= easy. It would be a bit awkward for me but I probably could do it if I really wanted to.

 

[MILFandCookies]

IMO the point of social freedom is to do what you want regardless of others' opinions, provided it's not unethical.

I think it could be correctly argued that telling your parents about your sex life, or walking around outside in a diaper, or stealing tiny shit from restaurants isn't unethical.

But how is any of that stuff that you want? Like aside from the meta-level novelty of doing something you don't actually want to do.

We do cold approach because we want to fuck girls and vice versa. We high-five strangers because it's fun for both of us. We do push-ups on the sidewalk because it's free exercise and no one else is really inconvenienced.

The point of gaining social freedom is to use it towards advancing these types of life goals, and I'm not sure doing weird irrelevant shit helps with that.

---

And yeah I could tell both of my parents about my sex life. They basically already know I cold approach and fuck. They're conservative and disagree but love me regardless.

I have no hesitation in telling them this stuff if I were to gain something from it.

But I'm 90% certain that they'll just complain about it to me and bring it up in the future at unrelated times and generally be annoying to me over it, just like with other life choices I've had. What the fuck do I gain from that?

Well said.

 

[Ed_]

Echoing september and MILFandCookies . I don't see any reason for having this discussion with family, other than to do it for the sake of doing it.

Personally, I was in a weekly group therapy group for 3 years. It was a mixed group including an older man, a young woman who had experienced sexual assault, a middle aged woman with teen daughters, and others. Towards the end I shared many of my sex goals, but I was met with pretty harsh criticism. I spend a lot of time working on arguments as why my goals were justified and trying to convince the other group members. Ultimately, I didn't convince any of anything and left the group when it became clear the discussions were a dead end.

The goals many of us have here on KYIL -- having an abundance of sex with attractive women, etc. -- are only shared by a minority of the population. The same with the life experiences many of us have had -- years of sexual frustration and inadequacy with relationships with women.

Trying to explain our lifestyle to "outsiders" who don't share our goals and who don't share our life experiences is mostly a futile effort. Just live your life and connect with those that resonate with you. There is not need to convince everyone (family included) that your journey and justified or meaningful.

 

[Manganiello]

Your family dynamics might be different, so it's up to you. But really, ask yourself this deeply, honestly, and repeatedly: Is it not mainly your irrational social fear talking?

CainGettingLaid
My dad knows about my billion dates I would get in a week.

He'd ask "what do you are gonna do this weekend?"

I have 8 dates.

And hed say not 10?

I had 10 last week.

And then he realized I wasn't joking.

He's more curious than anything and gets the hint I'm probably sleeping around.

...

But ya I don't feel the need to talk more about this with my parents at all. Despite being pretty conservative they're incredibly open to people making their own decisions in life.

...

But I think your question addressed to us might be a projection. I really have no hangups or fear whatsoever about this.

I think you've been pretty deliberate about eliminating fear which is awesome. So I'm not gonna discourage your line of thinking. It's probably benefiting you (a lot).

 

[Manganiello]

Tell your family if you want to tell them. Or don't if you don't want to. Debate solved.

However, OP: You're seeking validation/a pat on the back from everybody for telling your family about your sex life. You seem a little frustrated that the guys here aren't giving you the high fives you were probably expecting for doing it.

A helpful question for you to ask yourself, and one that'll hopefully spur the next stage of your growth: Why do I care what the guys on the forums think of me? Why do I need their approval? Why am I seeking validation by doing social challenges? Aren't I enough as I am - do I really need them to highfive me and give me props for doing something difficult?

I don't think he's seeking validation, it seems like he's trying to gather teammates for eliminating social fears. That's how I read it.

I've had a long convo with colgate about this.

And I think we sorted out good validation vsm bad.

Seeking Validation is unproductive if it doesn't tie into you reaching your goals and ambitions.

But it is productive if it's one of the payoffs for succeeding at your goals.


GOOD
Goal is: Want to get laid
Validation: Talking to guys about a recent lay.

BAD
Goal is: Getting laid
Validation: Sharing your long list of likes on tinder and not messaging them.

 

[CainGettingLaid]

New month, new challenge. And you can vote again. To remind everyone of the purpose of this thread, I'm just gonna quote myself:

However, humans are very much prone to re-adapt to social norms, to mentally subordinate to the group. You might have broken your mental blocks temporarily in one area, but this does not mean that you have forever broken the general habit of social obedience. Having this habit will continue holding you back from reaching your goals.

Staying mentally/socially free requires repeated acts of deliberate social defiance.

So to make this clear, doing these challenges IS NOT about something you intrinsically want to do (noone wants to walk through the city center wearing a diaper) but about getting into the habit of breaking social norms.

I updated the vote list with the suggestions in this thread that came in since the last vote. I took out the vote options that got zero votes in last months vote.

Go ahead! And remember, do not vote for the ones that sound the most fun to you, but the ones that are the most scary to you. Everyone gets three votes:
https://www.opinionstage.com/kain1/march-vote-which-3-social-freedom-challenges-scare-you-most

If you have suggestions for next months vote, shoot them below in the thread.

 

[CainGettingLaid]

Last chance to vote for the March challenge! I'll close the poll soon, make sure to get your vote in.

https://www.opinionstage.com/kain1/march-vote-which-3-social-freedom-challenges-scare-you-most

REMEMBER: Do NOT vote for the 3 options that seem most fun to you. Instead vote for the 3 options that most scare you, possibly the ones that you hate the most.

Manganiello Toast Sprezza offwego Crisis_Overcomer chocolate colgate Suave1 Thebastard Holden Noself RogerRoger Master pancakemouse Vice lacroix Adrizzle SamJ_ Dewm goldfish Sisyphus september

 

[Vice]

Some of those options are truly dumb as fuck, and counterproductive at best.

Wear a diaper? Seriously?

There's no need to do weird ass shit to get over social pressure. As a man, do you truly want to develop your core confidence through acting like a clown? You can get over social pressure by dovetailing the bending of social norms by simply approaching during night game.

 

[MakingAComeback]

looool why they hating on my boy Cain

I see you & hear you

You are in a process, I've been watching for a minute, and you handle biz and girls like you

You're doing this for you and I respect it

Also - sorry but some of the bros pushing back is legit hilarious. My sense of humour is stupid and dumb things amuse me, like the following:

"Some of those options are truly dumb as fuck"
-Vice

LMAO

That made me laugh my ass off

Savage

Cain I am on board with what you're trying to achieve keep going. Let the man do his thing

MAC

 

[Vice]

I like his idea overall but I believe that the challenges should have the added benefit of being able to be pragmatically incorporated in game.

 

[einherjar]

Last chance to vote for the March challenge! I'll close the poll soon, make sure to get your vote in.

Hey man, newbie here.
Appreciate the idea, stoicism on another level
I'd love to join y'all, could you take me in please?

P.S. Hallo aus Leipzig! Top, Leute aus Deutschland hier zu treffen.

 

[CainGettingLaid]

Social freedom challenge March/April: Interrupt some guy poorly hitting on a girl

Four options were tied for first place, I used a random number generator to determine the winner.

This months challenge is:

interrupt some guy poorly hitting on a girl

It's time to become a next-level douchebag and squash the competition.

Since I fucked up the whole voting process and published this at the end of the month instead of early in the months, this is gonna be the challenge for March and April.

Looking forward to your reports!!

I'd love to join y'all, could you take me in please?

There is no group or such for this challenge. It's simply you do it and post your experience/report in this thread.

 

[lacroix]

It doesn’t matter if he’s hitting on her “poorly” (what does that even mean?), he’s putting himself out there and maybe she actually likes him anyway. Seriously dude the point of social freedom is to be able to “do what you want” but that is different from just being weird and ignoring social common sense

 

[SamJ_]

Yeah I don't see how this one is productive at all, all it would do is make the guy feel bad and maybe even make the girl feel bad too. All it does is bring other people down which is the exact opposite of what we should be doing. Tbh your idea of wearing a diaper was better (even tho people made fun of that) because at least that actually takes courage on your part and might make other people smile.

 

[MakingAComeback]

Andy's post hit me in the feels there

Bit of a personal one.

I LOVE that we don't pull any guy down. Even in desperate fucking moments, and many here have had them let me tell you I have seen and remember them, we always find a way forward.

Think we could make a small tweak to this month's challenge perhaps Cain to keep it in alignment with the community's overall spirit? As communicated by Andy. I get what you're trying to achieve and this is great, but where it comes into conflict with another guy's potential self-improvement, this does deviate from the overall mission of the community.

Plus we all know Andy never imposes on guys processes, we have a lot of freedom to experiment and explore, the moderation style we have here is pretty incredible, so this is a situation where we should back Andy 100%.

On a personal level - You guys know how bad my AA was. I would have been that guy hitting on girls badly. You know in those AA ridden weeks I was in some fuckin dark psychological places and needed a lot of help from Andy and the group on getting through that.

They didn't laugh at me. They helped me find a way forward.

And I got through it.

Because people helped me and didn't push me down when I was already so low.

MAC