Jamgoth's New Progress log - actually striking up the balls to talk to women

[Jamgoth]

So it appears my attempts to be a more fun person in general aren't going very well. People are noticing offhand sexual comments I made and it said it made them uncomfortable. I'm not dumb enough to go around bragging about what a big dick I have or anything like that, I'm more subtle, but apparently not as subtle as I think I am.

Details? This was in a group setting?

Social circle or professional/grad student settings are not a great place to practice "being a sexual jokes guy" for Game purposes. I don't make sexual comments in group settings at all, it usually comes off as gauche.

What about at a bar? I guess I just don't know how to make things man to woman elsewise

Also, unrelated to the previous query, I have very bad insomnia and I think the lack of sleep is killing my gym gains. I think if I get this under medical control I'll start seeing progress faster.

 

[Jamgoth]

Approach anxiety has been really bad recently. I did approach one girl who was chilling out on the grass. It was a friendly chat but platonic. We only talked for maybe one minute before she went off to class. I should have asked for her number but didn't. She did smile and wave to me later when we bumped into each other so it didn't go horribly. I'm scared of making it man to woman because I don't want to offend people like I've done in the past

I'm sure part of my approach in general is very meek. Like they "hey" is so soft it often doesn't even register to her that I'm talking to her

I guess part of my fear is that I'm making backwards progress. In June there was that one alt girl who was super receptive to me despite not knowing what I was doing, another girl shit tested me for the first time, and another girl "asked me to come over", and another asked for my number. Other than the Nigerian girl, I've had nothing like that in either July or August. My attempts at trying to get with girls has gotten worse, made people uncomfortable so I need to dial it back, and a part of me feels that I was in a better spot 2 years ago when I wasn't even attempting to get laid, and treated girls just like I would treat my guy friends.

 

[Adrizzle]

Hey dawg good job on still approaching girls. Ya still making friends, tbh if you just did that and built a good social circle you’d get laid eventually

Progress isn’t linear you’ll go through slumps. Better question is what u going to do about it? Do you want to go back to treating girls like guys?

Can’t really comment on the sexual remarks without knowing specifics. Why are you saying them? If it’s to b funny, you do you some people won’t like your funny. If it’s to make the interaction man to woman, I would not do that because you can just say “hey I think your cute/sexy/hot” sexual remarks seem like code for saying soemthing about sex to gauge her interest without putting myself fully out there

 

[Jamgoth]

I'm still going out to bars and clubs and stuff. I try to do daygame but my social anxiety for daygame is really high.

There's a general sense that I'm not progressing. My attempts to make things man to women are coming off as socially uncalibrated. I guess every guy learning game from scratch ends up making mistakes in this category so I figure this is a phase I need to push through, and I'm getting a sense of what NOT to say.

I guess for going up either daygame or nightgame, just go up to a woman, introduce myself, start with FORD topics but then gradually move to more emotional topics, like childhood or whatnot, then, if she seems interested, try to move her to another venue or instadate, then try to gradually move onto even more personal topics like dating, what you want out of a partner. If that goes well, bring her back to my place, start talking about sex, then make a move. The problem is I can't seem to get past the FORD stage of that gameplan. I understand going up being like "hi, whats your name, what do you study, where are you from" doesn't spark attraction. I do try to do light teasing so it doesn't feel like an interview, but I still have trouble sparking attraction. I understand now that directly flirting at this early stage will come off as uncalibrated. I suppose there's nothing to do but to bite the bullet and go up and talk to people and not think about it too much. With daygame there is a lot of anticipation over "what the hell do I even say" and I guess I just need to get over that and approach anyway.

Also, it just feels wrong approaching girls who are 18-20. I am attracted to them, but looking in the mirror, I am noticeably older than them and don't think I'm masculine enough or rich enough to really get away with it. I'd feel like a creep approaching them and since I'm at college, that leaves out a lot of the women I'm surrounded by. At least at a bar setting everyone is at least 21. People tell me I can pass for 22 or 23 (and that wouldn't even be an unreasonable assumption considering where I am in life) but I sure as fuck don't feel like it.


I'm going to try to use my time at Yale to network with business entrepreneurs. I had a really cool idea for a nightclub and if I could meet business connections to make that happen, that would give me a cooler lifestyle in 5 years than being a scientific researcher or a professor. I don't even care about my classes anymore. Being the straight A goody two shoes nerd has not helped me in life at all and I need to change course.

 

[natedawg]

I'm going to try to use my time at Yale to network with business entrepreneurs. I had a really cool idea for a nightclub and if I could meet business connections to make that happen, that would give me a cooler lifestyle in 5 years than being a scientific researcher or a professor. I don't even care about my classes anymore. Being the straight A goody two shoes nerd has not helped me in life at all and I need to change course.

Just remember that daygame isn't your only option to interact with attractive women - especially if you're in college. You also have the social aspect. What co-ed clubs are they in? What do they do for fun? What kind of men do they normally hang around? Can you make connections with those men? What can you get involved with where you can build a reputation?

 

[Jamgoth]

I'm going to try to use my time at Yale to network with business entrepreneurs. I had a really cool idea for a nightclub and if I could meet business connections to make that happen, that would give me a cooler lifestyle in 5 years than being a scientific researcher or a professor. I don't even care about my classes anymore. Being the straight A goody two shoes nerd has not helped me in life at all and I need to change course.

Just remember that daygame isn't your only option to interact with attractive women - especially if you're in college. You also have the social aspect. What co-ed clubs are they in? What do they do for fun? What kind of men do they normally hang around? Can you make connections with those men? What can you get involved with where you can build a reputation?

True. Considering my age and the fact that I'm a masters student I can't exactly do frat parties, but maybe finding the same hobby would work

 

[Jamgoth]

The biggest thing that isn't talked about with this stuff is that in my opinion, genuine intense sexual energy is basically impossible to fake.

I think of all of these tactics as basically useless if the energy isn't behind it. Having that energy is alot more important to me than saying some line or making some move.

Honestly even if you learn the right "techniques" if your energy sucks they won't hit properly anyways.

Like I've said on here, if you have the proper energy, you don't need to necessarily even do anything. Your mere energy and presence alone will literally excite girls and make them horny.

How do I have energy?

 

[pancakemouse]

The biggest thing that isn't talked about with this stuff is that in my opinion, genuine intense sexual energy is basically impossible to fake.

I think of all of these tactics as basically useless if the energy isn't behind it. Having that energy is alot more important to me than saying some line or making some move.

Honestly even if you learn the right "techniques" if your energy sucks they won't hit properly anyways.

Like I've said on here, if you have the proper energy, you don't need to necessarily even do anything. Your mere energy and presence alone will literally excite girls and make them horny.

How do I have energy?

In my experience, the only way to develop sexual tension starting from nothing is to break it down into individual parts, practice those parts, find a mentor or someone else you can model, and then countless practice reps.

Brian Begin has some good videos to get you started: https://youtu.be/FWaVN6HQb9A?si=XTCZVY6Alqly9pIW

 

[Jamgoth]

How do I have energy?

In my experience, the only way to develop sexual tension starting from nothing is to break it down into individual parts, practice those parts, find a mentor or someone else you can model, and then countless practice reps.

Brian Begin has some good videos to get you started: https://youtu.be/FWaVN6HQb9A?si=XTCZVY6Alqly9pIW

Alright I'll take a look at this when I get the chance

So I tried growing out my beard and it's really patchy, and since goatees arent in style I think I'm just going to go for a clean shaven look

 

[loki]

In my experience, the only way to develop sexual tension starting from nothing is to break it down into individual parts, practice those parts, find a mentor or someone else you can model, and then countless practice reps.

Brian Begin has some good videos to get you started: https://youtu.be/FWaVN6HQb9A?si=XTCZVY6Alqly9pIW

Alright I'll take a look at this when I get the chance

So I tried growing out my beard and it's really patchy, and since goatees arent in style I think I'm just going to go for a clean shaven look

use minoxidil for facial hair

 

[Jamgoth]

Alright I'll take a look at this when I get the chance

So I tried growing out my beard and it's really patchy, and since goatees arent in style I think I'm just going to go for a clean shaven look

use minoxidil for facial hair

I did get some beard serum that's supposed to help.

 

[loki]

if the beard serum doesn't have minoxidil it's not gonna help.

look at the /r/minoxbeards subreddit. its an actual drug with an actual mechanism of action and actual studies showing it works. plus I used it and it obviously worked.

"beard serum" could be fucking anything

 

[Jamgoth]

I don't know either why you seem to think you need to wait to do this or build up to it gradually. You can be aggressive before you've even spoken to the girl. Your whole interaction should be aggressive. From the beginning to end.

Because my attempts to "be aggressive" have only ended with everyone getting pissed off at me

 

[Jamgoth]

if the beard serum doesn't have minoxidil it's not gonna help.

look at the /r/minoxbeards subreddit. its an actual drug with an actual mechanism of action and actual studies showing it works. plus I used it and it obviously worked.

"beard serum" could be fucking anything

I'll look at the ingredient list when I get home, but as advertised it was supposed to help a patchy beard become fuller

 

[Jamgoth]

I mean I'm reading the thread and trying to understand this. But I can't say I really do.

We need to start having posted approach videos or audio on here. Would make everything so much fucking easier.

How much sexual experience do you have thus far? How many girls have you fucked or relationships etc. Like what level of experience are we talking here?

Cause if it's very low I'd imagine there are some fundamental mistakes you are making here that in person I could so easily start to point out to or explain to you but it's so easy to get lost in translation on here.

I'm assuming you are in general just coming across a bit strange or off to people or as socially not integrating and I had this same issue for a long time. Which you already seem to be aware of.

Like I said it's just difficult without seeing you and watching in real life.

I lost my virginity earlier this year, that's how fucking socially inept I am

 

[Jamgoth]

I'd have to actually see what you mean when you say "being aggressive".

Trying to kiss a girl within 30 minutes of meeting her on one girl. Using the "Damn, that's unfortunate, we could have made a cute couple" within a short timeframe of knowing a girl in front of her friends. Use the "aww, you're adorable when you're upset" line way too soon. Generally being told my behavior makes people in my school uncomfortable.

On all four of these instances, I didn't just get told no, I actively lost friends over this.

 

[loki]

I think you mentioned previously wanting to visit the NYC guys.

This shouldn't be just an item on your todo list, it should be the absolute top item. Get it done as soon as possible.

Ideally you get coaching from Dante. But really even the regular NYC daygamer crew would probably be able to point out whatever vibe issues you have.

People on the forums are way too reluctant to meet other people and get feedback, when this is an order of magnitude faster way to grow than trying to debug everything indirectly through field reports and texting. Really, if you take a step back, the idea of trying to decipher behavioural issues by some means other than actually hanging out with the guy, or at the least listening to their date audios, is fucking insane.

By the way yeah 99% chance it's a vibe issue. You're trying to come off as having a way different vibe and frame than you actually do. Hence you say these lines and everyone just massively shit tests you because it's totally incongruent.

Easy for a jakeD to be like "just be aggressive" but it's like, yeah, if you're going full throttle at it you're going to get shit tested super hardcore until you're congruent, and if the shit testing gets unbearable you might never get there. Maybe baby step it instead. Spend more time around the girl, work on status instead, and take the escalation slower, and like I've suggested before, focus on body language way more than verbals - it's much harder for people to shit test you for your body language, and it's much more subtle.

Some empathy:

2020, a year before I started my daygame/fixing myself journey. I had a group project, 4 people, in my computer science class. Somehow, the one girl in it was actually hot. And did mildly flirty stuff like compliment my face. But she also had a boyfriend.

At some point all 4 of us are walking somewhere, and I don't remember what exactly I said to her. Some flirty, sexual-innuendo you-and-I thing while looking her in the eyes with a smirk.

wow turns out I'm kind of a natural at this

Anyway she then sucked my dick.

Nah, she stopped and told the other 2 guys in the group "guys did you hear what X just said? [my line verbatim] while looking me in the eyes". And then nervously chuckled.

 

[Jamgoth]

If you keep pushing and you have social intelligence / awareness, you'll eventually figure it out on your own if you keep pushing. But people are here to help as well. And shorten that process for you hopefully.

Pancake mouse said he'd help me once he got over covid and I had a free weekend to drive to NYC

I did do recordings and got feedback from another forum. The advice was "you do some things well considering your experience level. Namely teasing and not coming off as needy. But you struggle to make it man to woman, and your vocal inflection is very flat"

I've tried getting more recordings but most approaches are over so quickly they aren't worth getting feedback on. Like I said, I have bad approach anxiety for daygame

 

[Jamgoth]

People on the forums are way too reluctant to meet other people and get feedback,

I wanted to do this, meet some of you live, over the summer in DC when I had more time but no one here seems to be in DC. I met one guy who seems to be good at this who said he'd form a group to help beginners practice nightgame. I went with him once but got lost pretty quickly and he didn't seem interested in meeting any people in the group again (it wasn't just me, that group disbanded after one session). Super flaky guy *shrug*

By the way yeah 99% chance it's a vibe issue. You're trying to come off as having a way different vibe and frame than you actually do. Hence you say these lines and everyone just massively shit tests you because it's totally incongruent.

I had a friend who started college a virgin but then by his sophomore year he had a 20+bodycount, and would show me the texts he got from tinder so I believe it. His advice to me was to fake it until I made it. So, that's what I've been trying to do. Can you elaborate on vibe and frame and congruency. I get that my story is that I'm a low value guy who struggles to get ANY girl into me so for a large part of my life I didn't even try and I would get bullied by girls behind my back even though I was nothing but polite with them and wasn't even trying to sleep with any of them and I'm too fucking stupid to pick up on it. But yeah I can't exactly tell a woman that when I first meet them, and I'm not going to.

I am trying to work on status. I figure since I'm at college I'm on equal footing. Also spent more effort getting to know people, and also improving my clothing and getting fit. But other than that I don't know what to do to improve this. I had an idea for a business that I want to start getting a headstart on that I think would pay off massively if successful in terms of not only status but also meeting women in general.

 

[Jamgoth]

You need to become the guy in the photos. Not just look like him. Some edgy alt fuck boy.

Yeah it's hard to change your look. On the advice of some people here I've toned down the edge slightly. I still have a punk rock look but it doesn't look over the top like in my pfp