colgate - High Volume Approaching & Pulling / Pickup Hustle

[colgate / bulldog]

Been stewing on this story for a while and letting it develop, and I mentioned I'd talk about it at some point. It concluded today.

I approached a chick on 2/8 on campus with "you're cute as fuck". She's like "oh, you're so confident". She was on her way to get a covid test so we just chatted and then exchanged.

First date
We met up for a first date last Wednesday. Plan was to meet at a bubble tea shop near my place at 5:30pm. She said she had to be at the airport at 7:30pm, so I figured ok sure that's enough time.

I was in traffic on my way home from the office so I texted her at 5:07pm that I'm going to be 5 minutes late. She's like okay, I'm on my way and arrives on time. She asks me "where are you?" I'm like "give me 5 minutes".

I show up but she's not there. I call her and she's like "oh I went to go grab something from my place, can you order a tea for me?". uhhh lol okay. I waited probably 15-20 minutes and called her again. She said she was at the bubble tea shop but she can't see me. Turns out she went to a different shop. And to add to the confusion, she did actually show up to the correct shop at 5:30 but decided to go to a different one for some reason (???).

Anyway I text her to meet me at this one area on campus in the middle and I head over there. I open my phone and she tells me that she wants to meet somewhere else. This chick literally can't follow directions, seriously. Well we finally met up at the place she said around 6:10pm and I hand over her tea.

We are walking towards my place (20ish minute walk). Out of curiosity I asked where she was flying out to. She kept telling me it's a secret. I was like wtf, okay. Later I kept joking with her sometimes when she would ask me things that it's a secret. I suggest several times we can chill inside for a bit and then I'll take her to the airport. She keeps bringing up how she "doesn't trust me" and etc. I'm like, you aren't even just telling me out of basic convo where you're flying out to.

She also keeps saying we need to hurry up, even thought it was like 6:30pm or something. I'm like relax, the airport is 8 minutes away, we'll be at my place in like another 5-10 minutes. What time's your flight anyway? She refused to tell me.

We arrived outside my place and I told her she should come in. She brought up the trust thing again, and I was like well I don't even trust you, why can't you just tell me what city you're visiting? Turns out she misunderstood what I was asking and thought I was trying to probe into her plans for the night. Additionally, she wasn't even flying out anywhere, she just wanted to go to the airport to pick up a car rental. Since it was kind of a miscommunication between both of us, I decided we can just chill outside and I'll take her to the airport and we can meet again later.

When I took her to the airport, I accidentally drove into the wrong ramp and I would have had to pay to advance forward. So I literally tried to back out of the ramp back onto the main road. Took me 3 tries because oncoming cars had to travel on the ramp and I had to go forward, move to the side to let them through, and try again. I told the girl that this was the weirdest first date I've ever been on.

I finally dropped her off and I was like, well that was a massive waste of time.

But then a random number texted me thanking me for the backwards drive and she had fun. I was like wtf do u have 2 phones. Apparently she got a new phone and I was the first person she texted.

She invited me to see some jazz show with her the next week. Probably if I had more experience I wouldn't have gone, and I got advice from many guys to just block+erase her. But since I have so little experience with girls, I decided I need this date to happen and let it play out for my own memory bank. Plus, I like jazz.

Second date
She tells me to purchase the tickets and she'll pay me back. I'm like okay sure. When we met up she immediately paid back without me asking.

We sat in our seats but she was already acting really weird. She kept telling me "omg you take up so much space" and not letting me get near her. I was like yeah, I need like 3 chairs and lay down across the chairs and leaned into her. She pushed me off. Besides that, just boring chat about music and etc.

The show started and the music was great. The singer told the audience "you guys need to loosen up, I give you permission to get loose". The girl told me "yeah you can get loose in those chairs over there". I pretended I misunderstood and asked "what did you say". She remained silent. Later some people sat in the chairs next to me and she said "oh, you lost your chance to get loose."

At this point I was just thinking, I didn't do 1600+ approaches to get a girl who is going to be hyper unreceptive to me touching her. And I had that date in Austin who refused to give me a hug at the start of the date and was unreceptive the entire time: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24002#p24002. So I just imagined myself taking 20-30+ deflections in a row at the mall and zoned into that feeling.

I touched her arm here and there in between comments and she nonreacted. Eventually I put my arm over her. She lifted her back up and told me "can you get your arm off of me please." I instantly got up and walked out of the show. Went outside and realized I forgot my jacket. Walked back in to grab my jacket and walked back out.

I maybe felt a little bad for the performers because I did enjoy the music, but I'm not going to put up with some chick who refuses to let me touch her on a second date.

Went to go eat some Mexican food and took 2 aggressive deflections on my way back home. Life goes on.

 

[Crisis_Overcomer]

Went to go eat some Mexican food

Loads of value here, thanks for sharing G

She was a disaster waiting to happen but it's OK. If you don't fuck up, you don't fuck.

P.S. Vasilis would have smashed.

 

[Adrizzle]

Man imma be real with u. If one of my mates told me this story, I’d call him a overreactive fuckhead. You left because of 1 push back from the girl about you putting your arm around her. Think about how this seems to her, do you think you came off as non-needy?

She wasn’t a “disaster waiting to happen”. You literally didn’t even have a go at her. Idk was she super young maybe she was nervous, maybe she hurt her shoulder, maybe she really liked the song, maybe the timing was wrong. You could have stuck around to find out.

This girl was clearly into you, because your first date seemed like a shitshow but she wanted to see you again. It seems like you have a real me vs them mentality. I wasn’t there but your banter doesn’t sound playful.

I maybe felt a little bad for the performers because I did enjoy the music, but I'm not going to put up with some chick who refuses to let me touch her on a second date.

Do you have 3 plates already?
Did you leave to workout, make money, meet new girls or did you get food and shitpost on the internet?
You could have enjoyed some sweet jazz.


Good thing there’s always another chance

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Idk was she super young maybe she was nervous, maybe she hurt her shoulder, maybe she really liked the song, maybe the timing was wrong. You could have stuck around to find out.

The only thing that may have been true is "the timing was wrong". But if the timing was wrong on the second date to put my arm over a girl, then I can meet someone else (I know you likely meant in the micro scale in terms of perhaps "she wasn't comfortable in the moment", but still). There were various points between the first and second date where anytime I did anything involving physical touch she reacted pretty strangely to it. Maybe I could have brought it up to her if we kept meeting up but I didn't like being around her.

she wanted to see you again

Yeah but I didn't. I said I only went on the second date due to my own lack of experience, and to see if maybe the first date was just pure miscommunication and maybe I'll give it another run.

I wasn’t there but your banter doesn’t sound playful.

It was, though this girl tended to specifically take it in weird ways. For example she was $3 short when paying me back and I joked "oh you owe me a Gatorade later", and her immediate thought was "I have work after this". Wasn't even saying that I wanted to spend more time with her after (which I was probably going to propose depending on how much I enjoyed the time on this date).

Do you have 3 plates already?
Did you leave to workout, make money, meet new girls or did you get food and shitpost on the internet?

I don't think "having 3 plates" is a prerequisite for not forcing yourself into situations where you're wasting your time. And yeah, maybe by all means by the 7th date we could start holding hands but I'm not interested in that. This isn't the first date I've ever been on.

Good thing there’s always another chance

Yeah, exactly.

 

[pancakemouse]

Man imma be real with u. If one of my mates told me this story, I’d call him a overreactive fuckhead. You left because of 1 push back from the girl about you putting your arm around her. Think about how this seems to her, do you think you came off as non-needy?

She wasn’t a “disaster waiting to happen”. You literally didn’t even have a go at her. Idk was she super young maybe she was nervous, maybe she hurt her shoulder, maybe she really liked the song, maybe the timing was wrong. You could have stuck around to find out.

This girl was clearly into you, because your first date seemed like a shitshow but she wanted to see you again. It seems like you have a real me vs them mentality. I wasn’t there but your banter doesn’t sound playful.

Hard disagree. Her behavior indicates that she's a timewaster at best, lunatic at worst. I wouldn't have even gone on the first date, as soon as it became clear she was using him for an airport ride.

But...mileage. Guys need to learn for themselves that
1. A certain percentage of women just have insane energy beyond repair.
2. A much greater percentage will use men for validation.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Hard disagree. Her behavior indicates that she's a timewaster at best, lunatic at worst.

Yeah, like I get that I could have made this work and I appreciate the alternative perspective from Adrizzle. I also understand I'm not entitled to this girl, or any girl, reacting positively to something I do but it goes both ways. I see this date as she put up a bunch of filters and I failed to pass through them, and I put up my own filters and she failed to pass through mine. Someone's gotta break first and I decided I wanted to be the one to break for the first time.

 

[Ed_]

I look at some chick maybe 10 feet away and she looks at me. Starts darting off, I didn't even approach. I just kept staring at her and tailing her from a distance, and she darts into a shoe store. I stand in place, at least 20 feet away from her but I look at her.

I deadpan look at each member of the family as they whine at me. [...] I periodically walk, turn around completely and look deadpan, walk, turn around and look.

I just stand in place and she immediately leaves the store. I see another girl in the store. Do the exact same thing. 30 second chat, stand in place. She leaves the store too.

I can kind of tell they're already hyper scared and want to change trajectory/avoid me so I just go slightly ahead of them straight to the top of the down escalator. They both go into the top of the up escalator. I forced this entire trajectory and bust out laughing and make fun of them for trying to go down the up escalator for like a whole minute and then leave.

Later I run into her again and she sees me and hides behind a digital sign. I just stand in place for about a minute. Then she gives up and comes out and I stare at her, still standing still. She keeps looking at me and then literally runs away like a little bunny.

Agree with Heisenberg , this sort of "alpha male social control" is just weird and not the kind of behavior I'd expect from a guy who's genuinely trying to get laid.

And I don't buy the excuse that "these are failed approaches, so I'm just having fun with myself." The fact that you're acting like this towards so many women means something else is going in your psyche and motivation.

Why not just move on when chicks clearly aren't interested? If you want to fuck around and have fun with chicks, it should be a two-way street where they enjoy the interaction too -- not chasing girls out of stores, girls being "hyper scared", girls hiding from you in shops, and girls "literally running away" from you.

Seriously colgate , reread your field report from the view of an objective 3rd party. Are those the interactions of a well adjusted, young man who's trying to get meet women and have sex, or something else?

 

[colgate / bulldog]

I look at some chick maybe 10 feet away and she looks at me. Starts darting off, I didn't even approach. I just kept staring at her and tailing her from a distance, and she darts into a shoe store. I stand in place, at least 20 feet away from her but I look at her.

I deadpan look at each member of the family as they whine at me. [...] I periodically walk, turn around completely and look deadpan, walk, turn around and look.

I just stand in place and she immediately leaves the store. I see another girl in the store. Do the exact same thing. 30 second chat, stand in place. She leaves the store too.

I can kind of tell they're already hyper scared and want to change trajectory/avoid me so I just go slightly ahead of them straight to the top of the down escalator. They both go into the top of the up escalator. I forced this entire trajectory and bust out laughing and make fun of them for trying to go down the up escalator for like a whole minute and then leave.

Later I run into her again and she sees me and hides behind a digital sign. I just stand in place for about a minute. Then she gives up and comes out and I stare at her, still standing still. She keeps looking at me and then literally runs away like a little bunny.

Agree with @Heisenberg , this sort of "alpha male social control" is just weird and not the kind of behavior I'd expect from a guy who's genuinely trying to get laid.

And I don't buy the excuse that "these are failed approaches, so I'm just having fun with myself." The fact that you're acting like this towards so many women means something else is going in your psyche and motivation.

Why not just move on when chicks clearly aren't interested? If you want to fuck around and have fun with chicks, it should be a two-way street where they enjoy the interaction too -- not chasing girls out of stores, girls being "hyper scared", girls hiding from you in shops, and girls "literally running away" from you.

Seriously @colgate , reread your field report from the view of an objective 3rd part. Are those the interactions of a well adjusted, young man who's trying to get meet women and have sex, or something else?

Yeah these are bad. I was letting "this power" get to my head "because I could do it". I need to log more of my approach sessions again. I've been working on non-reacting and ejecting when I know the girl(s) are unreceptive and keeping it under control.

Honestly I think a lot of these behaviors manifested from literally being salty from taking lots of harsh deflections in a row, and it's quite immature. The real test is to take all the rejections and remain stoic about them.

Thanks for calling me out guys.

 

[Squilliam]

I don't blame you at all for walking out. I agree with Pancake's perspective. Your goal is to get laid. A girl who won't even let you put your arm around her on a second date is definitely a "wait until date 15" type girl.

 

[PinchePendejo]

I don't mind your decision to leave. The arm around her "rejection" was just the straw that broke the camel's back. You implied you didn't like her because you just went on the 2nd date for experience. I've had dates where I left early for similar reasons as yours. I don't regret those choices at all. Funnily enough, when I make the decision to leave and get up...my dates have this "holy shit, he's REJECTING ME" look on their face. I'll always remember how they look when the script has been flipped. Good times...

Anyway, keep trucking on. You'll go on dates with girls that'll love you and be the total opposite of what you just experienced.

 

[MakingAComeback]

Agreed big time. This was a major move for you.

Colgate, this happens time and time again.

Some girls have issues man, big time.

I was on a date with this, well, she was a pretty weird chick and also physically quite sub-par (putting it mildly). She described herself openly as cold-hearted and against any form of intimacy, and when I tried, she was very stand-offish and also eluded to some weirdo shit about getting into physical fights with guys.

Some chicks have deep trauma and their head is a mess. I asked her why she bothered coming back to my place, and she stormed out after saying some weirdo stuff.

It's not you. This is very normal.

Ultimately, the girl has to like you. She has to be receptive and in the right state. If not, it's largely to be brushed off as an exercise in time-wasting.

Pushing is good for sure, I need to get better at it, but cutting your losses is also important IMO.

Keep working,
MAC

 

[Thrice]

you're going full Eliot on this girls hahahahah Joking aside i feel your pain and frustration, when they're not interested and receptive and waste your time, you are there hoping because you crave sex and intimacy and validation while they can afford to waste your time because they have so many option

The airport girl is an example "you take so much space", they don't talk like that to a guy they're attracted to. Maybe it's better to leave immediately after they start beign unreceptive, until you're in a better place mentally and don't care anymore

 

[MILFandCookies]

Since Feb 6, I've done a little under 300 approaches and probably picked up around 20-25 contacts, and been on 10+ instadates and a regular date. I'd say at least 150 of the approaches didn't last longer than 20 seconds, and many of them I did not even get past "hey". So probably 100-130 approaches where I actually had a real interaction.

Including today, going literally 0 contacts for around 70 approaches (although I had an instadate).

I think I've inverted the entire paradigm with respect to how I feel regarding cold approach. Back in August when I was extremely new, I felt like I was living in fear, like I didn't have the right to exist in this world. Now I can literally see the absolute fear that most girls live in, and probably most people in general.

And I think this power is getting to my head...

For example, here's a list of my craziest approaches/experiences over the past few weeks. I've never had any experiences like the below ones up until over the past 5 or 6 sessions. In chronological order:
- I look at some chick maybe 10 feet away and she looks at me. Starts darting off, I didn't even approach. I just kept staring at her and tailing her from a distance, and she darts into a shoe store. I stand in place, at least 20 feet away from her but I look at her. She pretends to look at merchandise but she keeps looking up to see if I'm still there. Just darts between a bunch of merchandise until she runs into an employee and they start chatting. I'm like uhhh, uhhh, and gtfo.
- I'm about to walk down an escalator and I say "excuse me" to some people so I can pass them. I walk through them and some 13yo boy is like "ugh can u watch where ur going?" I just decide to look back and stare at them, totally deadpan. They get all flustered. It's a kid with his mom and dad. I deadpan look at each member of the family as they whine at me. I reach the bottom of the escalator and I periodically walk, turn around completely and look deadpan, walk, turn around and look. They keep looking at me, making weird faces and discussing something while looking at me. Then I just walk off. This fired me up because I was feeling kinda psyched out from some random chick calling me nervous earlier in the day and I made a bunch of low effort approaches and took a nap up until this point.
- I'm loop-spam pushing a girl to cancel her Uber and some random other chick sitting down observing is like "It's time for you to go goodbye!" I look at her like a laser and say "Who are you." She's like "uhh...uhh....I...work here..." and buries her head in her phone.
- Several girls decline my handshake or don't even want to talk because of "covid" and that I'm not wearing a mask. I just started being like, okay sure I'll put my mask on. Then I'll just exaggerate the fuck out of this. How about you stay six feet away from me. Then I'll have a loud conversation and when the girl tries to come closer to me, I'll be like, no, stay six feet away. Eventually I'll just be like, okay go 30 feet that way, get out of here. I did actually end up instadating+exchanging with a girl who thought this was funny and played along and we literally talked for 2 hours but I'll talk about that in a future post.
- I walk into a store and approach a girl. Talk for 30 seconds. Then I just stand in place and she immediately leaves the store. I see another girl in the store. Do the exact same thing. 30 second chat, stand in place. She leaves the store too.
- Duo is kind of walking to escalator and I'm about to be on their side to approach. I see them look at me for a second, but we're near the escalator. I can kind of tell they're already hyper scared and want to change trajectory/avoid me so I just go slightly ahead of them straight to the top of the down escalator. They both go into the top of the up escalator. I forced this entire trajectory and bust out laughing and make fun of them for trying to go down the up escalator for like a whole minute and then leave.
- A girl screams "nooooooooo!" when I say she's pretty. I reciprocate while looking back at her and run in the other direction like "nooooooooooo!"
- I see a Japanese girl walking towards me, and I see LINE on her phone. I'm like "ur Japanese right" in Japanese, and she's nodding her head "no!" as if she didn't understand me. We play a match of football where she tries to dodge me and I try to block her. Then I say "walk the fuck that way" in Japanese and she goes off. Later I run into her again and she sees me and hides behind a digital sign. I just stand in place for about a minute. Then she gives up and comes out and I stare at her, still standing still. She keeps looking at me and then literally runs away like a little bunny.
- Some girl is on the phone and I open her while she's talking on the phone. Maybe 30 second chat and then I can already sense she wants to dart and change trajectory. So we're right next to a store that's already closed and has a barrier set up. I'm like "yeah, go in that store". She's like huh??? "Yeah, come on, go in that store". She removes the barrier and goes in the store and redoes the barrier and I walk away laughing my ass off.

Anyway, I'm mentioning the above experiences because me 6 months ago would not imagine myself literally "controlling the simulation".

But it's not helpful for me getting laid.

Yeah, it's fun to have these weird frame battles and fuck with aggressively unreceptive girls, but it's easily arguable that I'm wasting too much time trying to have all these crazy rejection stories. In other words, just because I can do it, doesn't mean I should.

I think this may help me in trying to be forward in the bedroom perhaps in the future. But it's still the wrong thing to emphasize on. I mean I literally just wrote 9 long bullet points about "changing girls' trajectories".

In addition, if I weren't in the daygame chat, I wouldn't be like "wow fucking awesome, I went 0 for 70!" More likely that I would have been pissed maybe 30-40 rejections in and calibrate a bit. It's because you can get lots of validation in this chat, simply for doing a bunch of approaches, and especially if the percentages are low or even zero. Also if you do those funny frame battles which I mentioned above.

Which made me realize being in a place like this daygame chat is kind of similar to vaping. It's another form of breaking my brain's dopamine circuit by rewarding me for things that aren't supposed to be good, or they're low-effort.

On the other hand I have seen myself changing/evolving over these past few sessions even with the daygame chat. But I think the changes I make will be far different if I'm not exposed/incentivized by the validation from there.

The validation you receive should be aligned with your goals. If you're getting too much validation for irrelevant things, then it's time to take a second look at the places you're receiving the validation from.

So I'll continue staying in the daygame chat. But on March 1st, I'm going to be radio silent (unless I get a lay, then I'll post it there along with the rejection count). I think the strategies I take and things I implement will significantly change and I'll focus on more meaningful things about cold approach. And I won't be wasting my time with in-chat memes all day.

I've learned some lessons recently. I'll update this to let you know how it goes. I've got plenty of stories to tell but I'll save it for another post.

Bro... This reads like the beginning of American Psycho.

You're freaking girls out. That's why they're hiding and running away.

I'm scared to punch someone in the face, does that mean I need to confront my fear?

Social freedom isn't about confronting all fears because you have to be fearless... It's about being able to do what you want to do in public.

I think it's funny to photobomb people. And I do it. And they think it's funny too, and now they have a laugh and a fun story.

That's a good example of social freedom.

Not telling a timid Japanese girl to "go the fuck that way."

Then when she hides from you because you're acting like a serial killer, then runs away you say she "looks like a little bunny."

Jesus dude.

Get your fucking act together. I'm legit scared you're going in a very very dark direction.

 

[MILFandCookies]

Agree with @Heisenberg , this sort of "alpha male social control" is just weird and not the kind of behavior I'd expect from a guy who's genuinely trying to get laid.

And I don't buy the excuse that "these are failed approaches, so I'm just having fun with myself." The fact that you're acting like this towards so many women means something else is going in your psyche and motivation.

Why not just move on when chicks clearly aren't interested? If you want to fuck around and have fun with chicks, it should be a two-way street where they enjoy the interaction too -- not chasing girls out of stores, girls being "hyper scared", girls hiding from you in shops, and girls "literally running away" from you.

Seriously @colgate , reread your field report from the view of an objective 3rd part. Are those the interactions of a well adjusted, young man who's trying to get meet women and have sex, or something else?

Yeah these are bad. I was letting "this power" get to my head "because I could do it". I need to log more of my approach sessions again. I've been working on non-reacting and ejecting when I know the girl(s) are unreceptive and keeping it under control.

Honestly I think a lot of these behaviors manifested from literally being salty from taking lots of harsh deflections in a row, and it's quite immature. The real test is to take all the rejections and remain stoic about them.

Thanks for calling me out guys.

Just read this. Respect for the self awareness.

Girls are people. With emotions.

https://killyourinnerloser.com/you-and-me/
https://killyourinnerloser.com/you-and-me/
https://killyourinnerloser.com/you-and-me/

I'd read this ^

And then read it again.

Good luck man.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Thanks everyone for the comments calling me out on some of my recent behaviors. I specifically wrote that post because I knew I was doing something wrong, and I wanted to pivot away from those behaviors (should have been obvious in the second half after the long list of crazy incidents). And yeah, my goal isn't "be a sociopath".

Yeah these are bad. I was letting "this power" get to my head "because I could do it". I need to log more of my approach sessions again. I've been working on non-reacting and ejecting when I know the girl(s) are unreceptive and keeping it under control.

Honestly I think a lot of these behaviors manifested from literally being salty from taking lots of harsh deflections in a row, and it's quite immature. The real test is to take all the rejections and remain stoic about them.

Thanks for calling me out guys.

I didn't really want to end the discussion/callouts just with this post since I just wrote it really quickly to acknowledge that I agree with being called out for this. So don't think I was just brushing you guys off. But I've had to let some of my thoughts sit for a while over the week and while I've been approaching to write up a proper response.

I've periodically looked at the recent posts in my log with a sense of shame and irritation. But I think it was an important learning stage to go through, especially since I've said several times in this log that I was quite socially disconnected and had trouble with empathy. In other words, I think this has actually created a path towards emotional intelligence, whereas before I didn't know how to do that exactly.

A lot of those "frame battles" I mentioned in that post could basically be boiled down to:
my lack of awareness for how I'm coming off to the girl + my perception that her fear is completely unwarranted and overblown -> i decide to take advantage of her "unwarranted" fear state for my own amusement

Maybe it's approach inverse anxiety. In other words, I've been unnecessarily inducing anxiety in girls from my approaches. This is worse than regular approach anxiety because at least with approach/interaction anxiety, you could still by all means go on to exchange/date the girl you're approaching. But with this approach inverse anxiety, there's no possible way, you've scared her out of your market.

The awareness I've gained is that most people, especially girls live in fear. The maturity step here is being empathetic to the fear, and either attempting to alleviate the fear if possible, or simply moving on if not without further exacerbating the fear for "my own amusement". I'm not saying this "maturity step" as an attempt to justify my actions or gain validation for "wow I'm going to be such a good person!", but rather realizing that taking actions that just drill people's fears further into the ground is only going to make their fear worse, rather than improve it for the future.

Granted, you can't always alleviate the fear of every girl, and it's not your responsibility to. In those cases, you must non-react, and move on. Don't try to scare her even more than she already is.

One thing I had started doing was asking certain girls who looked a little intimidated/shy/quiet if they were nervous. Initially I went into this by straight up breaking the ice bluntly with "are you a little nervous?" and depending on the girl I'd get her to open up and start acting bubbly, or she'd continue being shy/nervous but maybe follow along, or I could sense she wanted to run off so I'd eject. pancakemouse had told me you can take this a step further and use statements of empathy instead of just plainly pointing it out, such as "oh my bad, didn't mean to scare you". I would like some more advice on this point by the way, essentially how can I better express that I understand the girl's discomfort/fear?

I have some more reflections I'm probably going to type up over the next few days because I got stuck in a new AirBNB with a freaking gap in the wall to the neighboring room. So look out for that.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

I've done probably 400-500+ approaches at the mall here since I moved to California about a month ago. I mainly stopped logging my approach sessions here because I enjoy approaching and it's just part of my life, so I don't know what the value is in reporting every single session and instadate like I used to. But let me know if you guys want to see that again.

I had probably 10+ instadates within those approaches. I initially started with the Lord Voldemort style where you have boring chat for 10-15 minutes and then repeatedly spam pull attempts over and over verbally until she supposedly acquiesces.

That doesn't freaking work. And frankly it's a waste of time and actually needy. Even if you do manage to pull, you haven't screened the girl for being comfortable with physical/sexual things, so you'll just get a chick who's unreceptive to do anything in the bedroom. It happened to me on one instadate+pull I had over the last weekend where she came back without me pushing at all, but didn't want to have any physical contact.

I've posted about this instadate: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29248#p29248 where I started experimenting with escalating on girls, and generally having fun and doing what I want during the instadate. The reason I started doing this is 1) I want to get something out of the instadate instead of walking away feeling like it was a waste of time and 2) I want to be able to screen out chicks who aren't down to do what I want so I can eject from those earlier, rather than continuing the interaction and ending up with a girl who wants me to be her task monkey: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29530#p29530

And in general, I've been trying to have more positive interactions and not treating the mall like it's some simulation where I can abuse the objects inside of it for my own amusement. This part of MILFandCookies's comment particularly stuck with me.

Get your fucking act together. I'm legit scared you're going in a very very dark direction.

I was actually kind of pissed about it because I wanted to prove "no I'm not, what are you talking about!!". And I was especially a little irritated that no one really responded to my question in the previous post in my log.
But regardless, I've cut out the mind game manipulative bulllshit. Also in general, I've been trying to avoid posting mid-session reports and offtopic shit into the daygame chat. I have a lot to say about it in the future maybe, but it'll probably be revealed in chunks over future posts, rather than this bombshell comment pancakemouse made: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29820#p29820

As he said in his log, I met up with pancakemouse over the weekend and we had a mega-sesh together where he watched most of my approaches. I did around 60-70 approaches in probably 6-7 hours (which is slower than I usually go, but we were having fun and he was mentoring me a lot in between). I'll be mentioning specific things he's told me when I do them on future approaches, but the big points were "ditch interviewing chicks, make the conversation about you AND her as much as possible, don't jump to the instadate invite immediately upon opening her".

One thing that can make cold approach pulls relatively low percentages compared to online dating pulls is that when you meet a chick from a dating app, she probably has some expectation that this might lead to something sexual, even if you don't really escalate. I was talking about this with Manganiello. But on cold approach, you pretty much have to screen earlier and up front, on approaches as much as possible, and definitely on dates. I was pretty much not doing that at all, and as a result got a lot of "resistance" from pull attempts. Most guys from multiple places have told me they hardly get resistance on pulls because they escalate and e.g. "go for the makeout" during the date, rather than just spamming the girl and hoping she comes back, and maybe if she comes back, hoping she'll be down to get physical/sexual.

So I've realized I need to make my approaches a microcosm of how future interactions should go with the girl I'm approaching.
colgate what the fuck does that mean???
In other words, escalating even on the approach, and doing what you want in general, etc. I'd like my approaches to look closer to some of KillYourInnerLoser's stories, such as this one: https://killyourinnerloser.com/the-polish-cold-approach/ I've done so many approaches where it just ends up becoming hyper-platonic, and I've identified that's the reason back in November in Austin, despite having so many dates, I had so many girls that didn't seem to be down to come back to my place, and hated being touched, and just wanted "good conversation". My goal is to be able to screen these chicks out and take the rejection on the approach instead of during the pull attempts on the date. Combined with the above paragraph, I've actually been getting ghosted far less recently and have 2 potential dates lined up this weekend.

now here's a story

I did literally 3 approaches today at the mall.
Not 30.
Not 60.
3.

I do want to point out it's extreme luck, but regardless here's what happened.

first instantly rejected, second was awkwardly holding convo and then went off to go meet her friend and i parted ways.

i see this HOT AF barbie asian chick with a short skirt and long boots
I'm like holy shit
literally say "you look fucking hot"
"you're like an alien or some shit"
she's probably 5'6". I'm 5'5"
she looks like she's in her 30s but otherwise ultra hot

chat while walking around mall for 5-10 minutes. didn't pitch an instadate immediately as i used to. just did the approach in a fun, playful way and teased her a bunch. like jokingly giving her shit for going to a different school than i had. that's my approach style lately, i just enjoy making exaggerated reactions when girls have a preference for something i personally don't like.

at some point I'm like "you're my 21 year old gf now"
she's like "but...but... I'm..." "no between you and i, you're 21"
this was a cool line because there were several points in the interaction where she kept trying to make herself seem younger, and i think it was because of this.

after i've decided we're vibing and i've done some light physical touches here and there, i pitch the instadate for bubble tea across the street in the outdoor mall.
she agrees instantly
i have my arm around her while we wait for teas. paid separately
told her i know a better spot for us to sit and lead her over there with my arm over her shoulder.
she takes off her mask to drink the tea and has these luscious plump red lips. i'm like holy fuckkkkkk she's so hottttttttt wow.
we go sit down at the spot.
i put on some club music on my phone and tell her "let me show you some dance moves, stand up"
i spin her around with both hands and she giggles "omg...this is so embarrassing I'm shy..."
dance for maybe a minute and then sit down and listen to more music on my phone
i play some weeb ass anime music because i can

then I'm like "okay the audio quality sucks, let's go in my car and listen to music"
she agrees instantly
then we hold hands and walk to my car. listen to more music there
i have my arm around her and then i fondle her inner thigh.

then i decide to go for the makeout
we touch lips for 0.5 seconds and she pulls back like "omg no I don't even know your name"
-> i haven't been introducing myself up front lately because who cares, so yeah she didn't know my name
i was like "i know yours" (i saw it on her bubble tea order)
she's like how??
i tell her and she's like omg???? I'm like yeah I have a computer in my brain actually

anyway, more music listening
try the makeout again, deflects with "no omg we just met...." so i stopped trying that because I'm not desperate to make out with a girl
i suggest we watch a movie at my place
she agrees instantly. wow i didn't have to push 10x like an asshole? who knew??? (thanks Ed_ for making me aware of this a month ago here: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=27016#p27016. at the time i had no idea how it was possible, but recent realizations with "the approach should be a microcosm of future interactions" have made me see how this could actually happen, and i think it's working)

we drive 5-10 mins to my place, she takes off her boots and omg she has great legs and white toenail polish. I'm like hell yeah
we cuddle on my bed as we watch movie on my computer. her head is on my chest
I'm like "do u like abs" she's like yeah. i pull up my shirt and tell her to feel my abs while i flex. she's like "ooooh" (pancakemouse had some chicks feel my abs on a duo approach we did on Saturday so i stole this idea from him)

at this point I'm like okay, maybe she'd be down to makeout?
said, "hey, look at me"
deflects makeout again like "omg i thought we were just watching a movie"
so I don't try to makeout again for the rest of the interaction. I'm just testing to see what she's into and what she's not

still cuddling. i try to feel her up in various places. got maybe 2-3 in from her pussy with my hand and she pulls it away. tried feeling her breasts, pulls away, etc etc. she rejects in the cutest way possible like "omg we just met" and holds my hand every time
but she put my hand over her breast over her clothes a few times and I was playing with them like that. then i'd try to go in her shirt and she was like omg no. i call her out like "u keep putting my hand on your boob" she's like "omg no I'm not" it was pretty adorable tbh

anyway i give up on that plan. time to focus on myself
slowly take off my belt
watch movie
unbutton pants
watch movie
unzip pants
watch movie

I'm only like 20-30% hard tho because i was a little turned off from her deflections
so i play with my cock under boxers to get hard. dunno if this will help guys with ED (i dont have it), but I found it was easier to get hard when i flexed my glutes (kegels??). so try that
anyway, i try to move her hand towards it but she deflects.
I'm like ok. watch movie for a bit, then i pull it out
she's like "omg....do u do this to all the girls u bring back here????"
I'm like yeah, all the time (this is the first girl I've gotten this far with)
i put it away and watch movie

then a little later i pull it out again. she doesn't say anything. i jerk myself off a little bit. try to get her hand on it, no dice.
so i put it away.
then we get into a long convo about indian food and how this movie sux and how most movies suck because they exaggerate scenes where "omg this guy is gonna kill this other guy"
while still cuddling. some other weak attempts at feeling her up but continually declined.
i decide ok, clearly she isn't down for this so i just tell her we'll watch rest of movie and I'll drop you to station after

we arrive 20-30 min early at station.
first we walk to the station. she keeps coming closer to me so i put my arm over her. she says it's too cold let's go wait in your car.
we make plans for later to drink fireball and go bowling next time. but there's a possibility she'll ghost. so who knows
listen to music in car while cuddling. just brushed her hair and shit. i figured ok, we literally already made plans again so whether or not you actually show up again i don't see a point in trying to do some last minute escalation. but who knows.

walk back to station, she pulls down her mask and gives me the worst kiss of all time
I'm like damn that kiss sucked
i try again but she goes in turnstiles.

that's it

--

Anyway so this is a huge milestone for me. I'm not sure if my bedroom calibration was off, so let me know if there's anything else I could have tried.

But I know taking 30 instant deflections in a row at the mall is worth it now because I can pull to my place from there now. Mainly with the new change of making the approach a microcosm of future interactions by having more fun interactions instead of boring interviews and chats, and escalating as much as possible on the approach/instadate. I also did a lot of "you and her" type things such as projecting us going to National Parks together and cooking, etc in the future. I've been doing that a lot lately on approaches, and pancakemouse has encouraged me a lot.

Big things coming here hopefully lol.

 

[Crisis_Overcomer]

Really happy for you.

Edit: happy to see pancake's $100,000,000,000 bootcamp worked for ya

but she put my hand over her breast over her clothes a few times and I was playing with them like that.

How good did that feel bro?

So I've realized I needto make my approaches a microcosm of how future interactions should go with the girl I'm approaching.
colgate what the fuck does that mean???

That was funny because I literally had the same thoughts today. I'll probably meet a girl who had some "touch" issues during the approach. Not sure if she'll come to my area or not. But if she does and I go for the pull, I'm really curious to see how it goes. Chris from GLL was reaaally up to something with his screening mentality and we should incorporate it more.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

How good did that feel bro?

I've felt a girl's titties before through her shirt (the first time I pulled in Austin), but this chick had slightly bigger boobs so that was great. And I can't get tired of feeling boobies lolol

 

[MILFandCookies]

I've done probably 400-500+ approaches at the mall here since I moved to California about a month ago. I mainly stopped logging my approach sessions here because I enjoy approaching and it's just part of my life, so I don't know what the value is in reporting every single session and instadate like I used to. But let me know if you guys want to see that again.

I had probably 10+ instadates within those approaches. I initially started with the Lord Voldemort style where you have boring chat for 10-15 minutes and then repeatedly spam pull attempts over and over verbally until she supposedly acquiesces.

That doesn't freaking work. And frankly it's a waste of time and actually needy. Even if you do manage to pull, you haven't screened the girl for being comfortable with physical/sexual things, so you'll just get a chick who's unreceptive to do anything in the bedroom. It happened to me on one instadate+pull I had over the last weekend where she came back without me pushing at all, but didn't want to have any physical contact.

I've posted about this instadate: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29248#p29248 where I started experimenting with escalating on girls, and generally having fun and doing what I want during the instadate. The reason I started doing this is 1) I want to get something out of the instadate instead of walking away feeling like it was a waste of time and 2) I want to be able to screen out chicks who aren't down to do what I want so I can eject from those earlier, rather than continuing the interaction and ending up with a girl who wants me to be her task monkey: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29530#p29530

And in general, I've been trying to have more positive interactions and not treating the mall like it's some simulation where I can abuse the objects inside of it for my own amusement. This part of @MILFandCookies's comment particularly stuck with me.

Get your fucking act together. I'm legit scared you're going in a very very dark direction.

I was actually kind of pissed about it because I wanted to prove "no I'm not, what are you talking about!!". And I was especially a little irritated that no one really responded to my question in the previous post in my log.
But regardless, I've cut out the mind game manipulative bulllshit. Also in general, I've been trying to avoid posting mid-session reports and offtopic shit into the daygame chat. I have a lot to say about it in the future maybe, but it'll probably be revealed in chunks over future posts, rather than this bombshell comment @pancakemouse made: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29820#p29820

As he said in his log, I met up with @pancakemouse over the weekend and we had a mega-sesh together where he watched most of my approaches. I did around 60-70 approaches in probably 6-7 hours (which is slower than I usually go, but we were having fun and he was mentoring me a lot in between). I'll be mentioning specific things he's told me when I do them on future approaches, but the big points were "ditch interviewing chicks, make the conversation about you AND her as much as possible, don't jump to the instadate invite immediately upon opening her".

One thing that can make cold approach pulls relatively low percentages compared to online dating pulls is that when you meet a chick from a dating app, she probably has some expectation that this might lead to something sexual, even if you don't really escalate. I was talking about this with @Manganiello. But on cold approach, you pretty much have to screen earlier and up front, on approaches as much as possible, and definitely on dates. I was pretty much not doing that at all, and as a result got a lot of "resistance" from pull attempts. Most guys from multiple places have told me they hardly get resistance on pulls because they escalate and e.g. "go for the makeout" during the date, rather than just spamming the girl and hoping she comes back, and maybe if she comes back, hoping she'll be down to get physical/sexual.

So I've realized I need to make my approaches a microcosm of how future interactions should go with the girl I'm approaching.
colgate what the fuck does that mean???
In other words, escalating even on the approach, and doing what you want in general, etc. I'd like my approaches to look closer to some of @KillYourInnerLoser's stories, such as this one: https://killyourinnerloser.com/the-polish-cold-approach/ I've done so many approaches where it just ends up becoming hyper-platonic, and I've identified that's the reason back in November in Austin, despite having so many dates, I had so many girls that didn't seem to be down to come back to my place, and hated being touched, and just wanted "good conversation". My goal is to be able to screen these chicks out and take the rejection on the approach instead of during the pull attempts on the date. Combined with the above paragraph, I've actually been getting ghosted far less recently and have 2 potential dates lined up this weekend.

now here's a story

I did literally 3 approaches today at the mall.
Not 30.
Not 60.
3.

I do want to point out it's extreme luck, but regardless here's what happened.

first instantly rejected, second was awkwardly holding convo and then went off to go meet her friend and i parted ways.

i see this HOT AF barbie asian chick with a short skirt and long boots
I'm like holy shit
literally say "you look fucking hot"
"you're like an alien or some shit"
she's probably 5'6". I'm 5'5"
she looks like she's in her 30s but otherwise ultra hot

chat while walking around mall for 5-10 minutes. didn't pitch an instadate immediately as i used to. just did the approach in a fun, playful way and teased her a bunch. like jokingly giving her shit for going to a different school than i had. that's my approach style lately, i just enjoy making exaggerated reactions when girls have a preference for something i personally don't like.

at some point I'm like "you're my 21 year old gf now"
she's like "but...but... I'm..." "no between you and i, you're 21"
this was a cool line because there were several points in the interaction where she kept trying to make herself seem younger, and i think it was because of this.

after i've decided we're vibing and i've done some light physical touches here and there, i pitch the instadate for bubble tea across the street in the outdoor mall.
she agrees instantly
i have my arm around her while we wait for teas. paid separately
told her i know a better spot for us to sit and lead her over there with my arm over her shoulder.
she takes off her mask to drink the tea and has these luscious plump red lips. i'm like holy fuckkkkkk she's so hottttttttt wow.
we go sit down at the spot.
i put on some club music on my phone and tell her "let me show you some dance moves, stand up"
i spin her around with both hands and she giggles "omg...this is so embarrassing I'm shy..."
dance for maybe a minute and then sit down and listen to more music on my phone
i play some weeb ass anime music because i can

then I'm like "okay the audio quality sucks, let's go in my car and listen to music"
she agrees instantly
then we hold hands and walk to my car. listen to more music there
i have my arm around her and then i fondle her inner thigh.

then i decide to go for the makeout
we touch lips for 0.5 seconds and she pulls back like "omg no I don't even know your name"
-> i haven't been introducing myself up front lately because who cares, so yeah she didn't know my name
i was like "i know yours" (i saw it on her bubble tea order)
she's like how??
i tell her and she's like omg???? I'm like yeah I have a computer in my brain actually

anyway, more music listening
try the makeout again, deflects with "no omg we just met...." so i stopped trying that because I'm not desperate to make out with a girl
i suggest we watch a movie at my place
she agrees instantly. wow i didn't have to push 10x like an asshole? who knew??? (thanks @Ed_ for making me aware of this a month ago here: https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=27016#p27016. at the time i had no idea how it was possible, but recent realizations with "the approach should be a microcosm of future interactions" have made me see how this could actually happen, and i think it's working)

we drive 5-10 mins to my place, she takes off her boots and omg she has great legs and white toenail polish. I'm like hell yeah
we cuddle on my bed as we watch movie on my computer. her head is on my chest
I'm like "do u like abs" she's like yeah. i pull up my shirt and tell her to feel my abs while i flex. she's like "ooooh" (@pancakemouse had some chicks feel my abs on a duo approach we did on Saturday so i stole this idea from him)

at this point I'm like okay, maybe she'd be down to makeout?
said, "hey, look at me"
deflects makeout again like "omg i thought we were just watching a movie"
so I don't try to makeout again for the rest of the interaction. I'm just testing to see what she's into and what she's not

still cuddling. i try to feel her up in various places. got maybe 2-3 in from her pussy with my hand and she pulls it away. tried feeling her breasts, pulls away, etc etc. she rejects in the cutest way possible like "omg we just met" and holds my hand every time
but she put my hand over her breast over her clothes a few times and I was playing with them like that. then i'd try to go in her shirt and she was like omg no. i call her out like "u keep putting my hand on your boob" she's like "omg no I'm not" it was pretty adorable tbh

anyway i give up on that plan. time to focus on myself
slowly take off my belt
watch movie
unbutton pants
watch movie
unzip pants
watch movie

I'm only like 20-30% hard tho because i was a little turned off from her deflections
so i play with my cock under boxers to get hard. dunno if this will help guys with ED (i dont have it), but I found it was easier to get hard when i flexed my glutes (kegels??). so try that
anyway, i try to move her hand towards it but she deflects.
I'm like ok. watch movie for a bit, then i pull it out
she's like "omg....do u do this to all the girls u bring back here????"
I'm like yeah, all the time (this is the first girl I've gotten this far with)
i put it away and watch movie

then a little later i pull it out again. she doesn't say anything. i jerk myself off a little bit. try to get her hand on it, no dice.
so i put it away.
then we get into a long convo about indian food and how this movie sux and how most movies suck because they exaggerate scenes where "omg this guy is gonna kill this other guy"
while still cuddling. some other weak attempts at feeling her up but continually declined.
i decide ok, clearly she isn't down for this so i just tell her we'll watch rest of movie and I'll drop you to station after

we arrive 20-30 min early at station.
first we walk to the station. she keeps coming closer to me so i put my arm over her. she says it's too cold let's go wait in your car.
we make plans for later to drink fireball and go bowling next time. but there's a possibility she'll ghost. so who knows
listen to music in car while cuddling. just brushed her hair and shit. i figured ok, we literally already made plans again so whether or not you actually show up again i don't see a point in trying to do some last minute escalation. but who knows.

walk back to station, she pulls down her mask and gives me the worst kiss of all time
I'm like damn that kiss sucked
i try again but she goes in turnstiles.

that's it

--

Anyway so this is a huge milestone for me. I'm not sure if my bedroom calibration was off, so let me know if there's anything else I could have tried.

But I know taking 30 instant deflections in a row at the mall is worth it now because I can pull to my place from there now. Mainly with the new change of making the approach a microcosm of future interactions by having more fun interactions instead of boring interviews and chats, and escalating as much as possible on the approach/instadate. I also did a lot of "you and her" type things such as projecting us going to National Parks together and cooking, etc in the future. I've been doing that a lot lately on approaches, and @pancakemouse has encouraged me a lot.

Big things coming here hopefully lol.

Fuck yeah man. I'm glad my advice reached you.

As for this instadate it looks like there's nothing you could have done. She was def. into you but it was too quick in her mind to open up sexually. You did a solid job being persistent but not controlling, mad props.

Keep it up man. The more you even yourself out, the more girls will trust you and be willing to come back again and again. Plus you're not running the risk of being banned from the mall anymore, or even arrested for harrassment - which you might have been if you kept staring at girls, swearing at them in foreign languages and following them around the mall.

 

[D4vidDG]

Congratulations on your instadate! Keep rocking it, bro!