colgate - High Volume Approaching & Pulling / Pickup Hustle

[Paw]

1. stop the girl if she's walking with "hey, [excuse me]". try to make sure she's standing still and paying attention. very occasionally i'll walk and talk but i'm veering away from this.
2. some opener. ranging from "hey, you're pretty/cute [and i wanted to meet you]" to "you're cute as fuck" to "you're freaking adorable" to some specific compliment about her style/clothes/hair/whatever.
3. "what are you up to" (honestly i might cut this one out, i find myself feeling kind of awkward when i ask this)
4. small talk and cold read basic questions until there's something i can latch onto
5. make future projections about traveling (because i like that), adlib. usually at this point i feel pretty comfortable and can talk about anything and it doesn't feel like an "approach" anymore
6. pitch instadate and/or probe date logisitics
7. if not instadate, grab the number

1+2 I basically do the same. Here in Mexico I always say "Hablas ingles?" at first. Anywhere else, I would just say "hey".
3. I agree that you could cut this out and go directly to 4, cold reading - that's what I usually do. Just some observation about her basically. Got this from Mark Manson. Instead of saying "what are you studying?", you say "you look like a student, probably something artsy". It's way more interesting since she will think "what made him think this about me". For asking "what are you up to", I don't think it's a bad question, but it goes directly into interview mode imo.
5. Do you mean future projections about traveling together with her? If so, I would cut that out. You can talk about your own travels or where you wanna go, but if you're "planning" things together with her it might come off as extra pressure for her, especially since you JUST met and traveling is not something you "just do", like meeting up for wine would be.
6+7 sound good. For going for the instant date, this is the point I would ask "what are you up to right now?", to check if she's actually available. It's better to get a yes for the number+future date than it is to get a no to the instant date and yes to the number. Also, when you ask for the number, make sure she knows the purpose is to meet up with you within the next few days.

I've also been lightly touching the girl's arm and etc here and there. I think once I get past the initial hurdle of "uhhh I'm talking to someone I don't know but I'm interested sexually" and I have things I can talk about with them, I loosen up and my vibe is more playful and I tease a lot. But the first part of the interaction, I'm honestly quite robotic and at times slightly aggressive too for some reason. I think there are a couple approaches where I somehow felt genuine and playful up front, but it's very inconsistent and probably 1/15-20 approaches. Being able to get this to become all of my approaches will help me a lot.

Physicality is good. I always at least shake hands and end with a hug. Touching arms/shoulder/head is also pretty common for me.

For being robotic - do you smile when you open? I think you can learn to have a playful vibe off the bat, even if what you're saying is the same stuff. There's a BIG difference between going up with a light-hearted vibe and a smile rather than robotically going through "the opener", "the next step" etc.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Do you mean future projections about traveling together with her? If so, I would cut that out. You can talk about your own travels or where you wanna go, but if you're "planning" things together with her it might come off as extra pressure for her, especially since you JUST met and traveling is not something you "just do", like meeting up for wine would be.

I try to make this a hyperbole. Like it's some obvious joke that I'm going to take them on a "vacation" or whatever even though we just met. I'm like yeah well we can't go right now because it's 6:30pm and by the time we reach it'll be really late, etc. This is something I only get into if I end up getting onto the subject of traveling, was just an example. I don't actually try to imply that we're going to do that, but maybe it's coming off that way perhaps.

Other things I've done are tell the girl she should quit her job and we should start some company combining our powers (my coding skills + whatever her skills are). Like if she's a "psychologist" I'm like I need you to help me build some AI psychotherapist and then we can make billions of dollars.

Now that I'm writing these, I'm not sure if they're really helping. They're just random things I thought of doing said in obvious jest, but maybe it's irrelevant. I didn't do either of these with the Ethiopian girl, and Ai met up because we had some long conversation in Japanese, so it pretty much didn't matter what I said. I was thinking about it last night, and I have some ideas for how I can change the content of my approaches a bit, will report about them over the next few weeks.

 

[1v1mekid]

1. There is such a thing as being shit at approaching. From my first +500 approaches, I got only one lay. I had a whole fucking process, was using stupid tactics, lines, and shit like that and not being super authentic most of the time (don't know if this applies to you, haven't read your whole log). Anyway, I still got some numbers, some dates, some make-outs, some almost-sex, and that one lay. But today the results are way better. And I might add that my body was actually better back then than it is now, so it doesn't have to do with looks. I believe that it's that I have chilled back, I'm clear about my intentions, I care less about the outcome and I just have a normal fucking conversation and move things forward.

Were you approaching indiscriminately back then? Do you still today? For the first 500 approaches were you in a smaller city as you are now? Were you getting a good amount of dates in these initial 500 approaches? How experienced were you in closing? I think colgate talked about this in an older post; Some guys are more experienced in going on dates and can close easier from cold approach sooner than complete virgins who've never gone on dates.

 

[Manganiello]

Well there's a lot of ideas floating around.

It takes a really expirtneced guy to isolate the key variable that's contributing to low conversions.

So you'll get a lot of opinions about what your fix needs to be. But the credibility of each opinion is not created equal.

When I say experienced I mean Like 100+ lay count guys, or guys who has experienced (and eventually succeeded) your obstacles.


Remember that.

...


A lot of people who start this journey are not capable of getting girls in their current version.

goldfish, MakingAComeback , Toast, and I all started off overweight.

I had a full on year where I just lost weight.
And then keep in mind I was doing the AA program and approaching before I got to one lay.

And you might think, ya but you got laid within your first 300 approaches.

But the point is. The amount of fucking time that took. Year of weight loss + 6 months of approach related stuff.

Ideally you'd go faster than I did. But I'm just injecting some perspective.

 

[Ed_]

I agree with the comments about focusing on improving your physique. Chris from GLL had a comment about how guys need to meet a certain looks threshold to get results, he said something like: "many guys would be better off spending time in the gym instead of improving their game." This might apply to you.

You said you're working with a personal trainer, but achieving a significant body transformation is a lot more than that. Are you also:

• Tracking your food
• Sticking to your diet and macros 5+ days of the week
• Tracking your weight, measurements, etc.?
• Hitting the gym as scheduled
• Not half-assing it in the gym (going 90%+ on all your sets)

I've never been a fitness guy, and I spent years messing around with workout programs that weren't generating results. It took a few months of working with a competition-level bodybuilder coach to build habits that actually gave me measurable gainz.

Also: Not sure this applies to you, but the "you gotta get in significantly better shape" solution is a tough one to swallow, because it's a medium/long term commitment. It's "easy" to blast out 500 approaches at the mall in a month and get laid once or twice. It's "hard" to stick to the gym, every week, for 3+ years to get the physique that will bring you an elite sex life.Make sure your long-term and short-term goals and actions are aligned.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Not sure this applies to you, but the "you gotta get in significantly better shape" solution is a tough one to swallow, because it's a medium/long term commitment.

Yeah, that's why I had that crazy blackpill approach session yesterday. It's just realizing that even if I'm 100% serious about gainz bro, I can't just go out "right now" and take action that would get me somewhere, unlike approach. It requires being able to trust the process and not give up despite zero immediate feedback (unlike approaching).

 

[Squilliam]

It requires being able to trust the process and not give up despite zero immediate feedback (unlike approaching).

Yes, this is true, trusting the process is essential. I struggle with that myself. You saw my progress photos, and it might look somewhat decent, but sometimes I'll think like "the lighting just makes me look buffer" to try to justify why I haven't followed the process correctly. As Ed stated, there are a lot of components to working out (and just looksmaxxing in general) and so I'm just saying, it's normal to doubt yourself when you haven't done it before.

However, there are also ways to check if you are on the right track without waiting several months to see a difference in progress photos (like weight measurements, and your exercise weight progression). But obviously, as Ed said, you will need to spend a lot of time to get meaningful results.

 

[MILFandCookies]

The "blueballed with another pull+no hookup" part was a joke (since I've had a lot of those, but in less satisfying ways). Sorry if it came off as disappointment because it really wasn't.

Cool. Glad you had a good time then man. Keep it up.

 

[Paw]

Were you approaching indiscriminately back then? Do you still today? For the first 500 approaches were you in a smaller city as you are now? Were you getting a good amount of dates in these initial 500 approaches? How experienced were you in closing? I think @colgate talked about this in an older post; Some guys are more experienced in going on dates and can close easier from cold approach sooner than complete virgins who've never gone on dates.

Were you approaching indiscriminately back then? Do you still today?

What do you mean exactly with indiscriminately? Like just approaching any chick? I approached mainly girls I found attractive except for in the VERY beginning first 10-20 where I was sweating and shaking like crazy to just say hi. Actually a friend of mine had to push me like fucking crazy with the first few approaches, but after a while I could do it on my own. Didn't do any AA program or anything like that.

Today I just talk to girls I find attractive.

For the first 500 approaches were you in a smaller city as you are now?

Was in Budapest, a city of about 2 million people. Wouldn't call it small for Europe standards. I'm not in a smaller city now, I'm in Mexico City and going to Budapest again in a month or so.

Were you getting a good amount of dates in these initial 500 approaches?

It's a while back and I did not track everything, but I probably went on 10 dates, made out with half of them, almost got to sex with two or three and had sex with one.

How experienced were you in closing?

Not too experienced. Had been with 6-7 girls when I started day-gaming, but I didn't really have any idea what I was doing. It was mostly from nights out or involved alcohol. Basically I was shit scared of escalating.

I think @colgate talked about this in an older post; Some guys are more experienced in going on dates and can close easier from cold approach sooner than complete virgins who've never gone on dates.

I believe that to be true.

 

[Ed_]

Yeah, that's why I had that crazy blackpill approach session yesterday. It's just realizing that even if I'm 100% serious about gainz bro, I can't just go out "right now" and take action that would get me somewhere, unlike approach. It requires being able to trust the process and not give up despite zero immediate feedback (unlike approaching).

I don't think it's blackpill -- that would saying something like "if you're under 5'10", you'll never get laid." The fact that almost any dude can work hard in the gym, improve their looks, and get an elite sex life is red pill. You just need to put in the work, and almost any sex life you want is possible.

Some recent articles that should give inspiration, If you spend too much time on the internet, your view of the world is warped. [Red Pill Dad]:

There’s never been a better time to be a player. Never. Your competition are a bunch of fucking pussies who spend all day online and won’t learn or change because they’re too lazy and/or scared that a girl might be mean to them. They’re soft soy boys who’d rather play video games than get their dick wet. They’ve told themselves they can’t compete because they’ve gone so black pill they think girls only fuck Chads…

And, A lot of guys are pussies, but that means opportunity for the few who aren’t [The Red Quest]:

their weakness shows your opportunity: if all these guys are so weak that they can’t compete at all, where does that leave you, the guy who’s decided he can and will compete? Jeff Bezos says your margin is Amazon’s opportunity. These guys’s whining, is your opportunity.

[...]

Many hot women, average women, below average women, yearn for a man who behaves like a man, not a child or another woman. There are ways of becoming that man, though most guys don’t pursue them, because they are busy with PlayStation & McDonald’s. They live a corporate-sanitized simulacrum of life. They eat fake corporate foods and talk about their favorite “brands.”

 

[Squilliam]

I don't think it's blackpill -- that would saying something like "if you're under 5'10", you'll never get laid." The fact that almost any dude can work hard in the gym, improve their looks, and get an elite sex life is red pill. You just need to put in the work, and almost any sex life you want is possible.

Correct, it's not. Blackpill is about believing that your situation is immutable and can't be rectified with improvement. Under blackpill, Colgate should have never been able to get laid due to not being a tall white Chad (slight hyperbole), which is obviously not the case.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

If you get instant dates, the problem is clearly not your looks.

Yeah, I agree that looks don't matter as much for instadates. I can get them pretty easily actually, but I think it's because I'm pretty direct and confident about them. Sometimes even hypnotic (girl gets "tranced" and ends up just following along with me. I kind of don't like when it happens because I know the moment she "snaps" out of it, the interaction is going to go nowhere).

My whole spiel about looks was more about how I've been getting unilaterally ghosted. Maybe my texting sucks too. I just feel like okay, I probe her logistics, talk about the date and what we'll do, and then she's like yeah okay that sounds good, then I get her number, then the following happens:

"hey it's sherwyn" -> no response

(i don't do this one anymore but I was for a week or two)
call myself on girl's phone -> maybe some connecting text to when we met -> oh hey -> when do you want to grab that bubble tea -> no response

"sherwyn" (on approach) -> sometimes she replies with her name -> "what are you up to this week" -> no response

go route of having some conversation over text, maybe over 4-10 messages -> invite out -> no response

get the girl to agree to come to date -> cancels date -> okay, no worries etc. -> text a few days later inviting out -> no response

I know getting ghosted on most texts is normal. But in the past 2 months I've gotten ghosted/flaked/cancelled on every one except the airport chick, Ethiopian girl and Ai. This is over probably 70+ contacts, so I'm honestly not sure what's happening. The airport chick seemed like she didn't even like me and wanted me to just do tasks for her. The Ethiopian chick seems like an anomaly, and Ai met up because I can speak Japanese. Compared to Austin, I was getting a good amount of responses and dates, and even had 2 girls who wanted to meet up in January, but I'd already moved. I don't really know what I'm doing differently, if anything I was more platonic and not confident in Austin (well most of the girls who met up seemed like they were expecting a pure friendly vibe so idk).

As I replied earlier, I'll be convinced my looks are not the problem when I can set up a solid OLD profile and get a good volume of likes. I'm doing a style call with Radical tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes and what he suggests.

But I certainly agree that vibe & game are things I have a lot to work on as well. In fact here are some of my own notes I wrote last night:
- open body language
- chill tf out in high paced environments
- stay confident even in low energy environments
- stop asking permission and questions
- have positive expectations from the start
- make your behavior as masculine as possible. you can start that now
- BACK THE PRODUCT (show your own value during the approach (traveling, cooking, music, etc.) and talk about how the date will go on the approach)

Unless anyone else has any ideas, I don't think I can filter out for girls who "know I'm going to hook up with them on the first date" where I am right now. But that means I have to figure out how I can get girls to at least meet up with me once, and then twice again. I'm totally fine with meeting for multiple dates, and many of KillYourInnerLoser's cold approach stories happened on the 3rd+ date. But it starts with them actually coming through on the first date.

I guess that's where I'm at right now. I don't think I'm wrong in that I have to compensate extra for my looks as they are right now though. And I'm aware that it won't be as big of a deal 1-2 years from now when I'm closer to having the body I want. But it's like, how can I work with what I have right now in the meanwhile?

Maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot by constantly changing my texting strategies because I can't figure out what works to get girls to respond and meet up. It's like even if I have a "great interaction", it goes nowhere in the end. That was probably the crux of my blackpill post yesterday. This is a hyper noob question, but what's the best way to text for getting cold approach numbers to meet up? I'll let pancakemouse comment, but I don't think my "game" is so poor that girls should just ghost no matter what I text. So what remains?

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Daygame
Sunday 3/6: 8#/45, 2 instadates, 1 pull.

Thanks to yesterday's therapy session and the comments I received on my thread, I felt like a sun ray exuding energy right as I entered into the mall. Maybe a positive contact wave too, but I've not gotten that many girls to exchange at this mall with only ~45 approaches. So we'll see how this plays out over the coming weeks. And we have to see if any of them actually meet up. I'll talk about those specific approaches/contacts if they do. Decided to follow KillYourInnerLoser's podcast and send voice notes to 4 of them with something like "hey it's sherwyn from the mall, it was great meeting you, let me know when you're down to grab that bubble tea, look forward to seeing you".

The instadates were kind of strange. Won't get into too much into detail about the first one unless it goes somewhere, but it likely won't. It was some girl sitting down with double nose piercings and ended up inviting me to get ice cream with her and her friend. Probably normally I would have declined, but I saw it as an opportunity to improve my general social skills so I figured why not, and I also had fun.

2nd instadate was from a girl who was maybe my 5th approach of the day. She was probably a 5'9"-5'10" 30s Chinese girl. We had exchanged contacts earlier because she was off to do errands, but then maybe 4-5 hours later she saw me sitting down chilling in the mall (I was actually playing poach mode for a bit, where I sit down and approach girls I see pass by, rather than my usual walking around). She came up to me and asked what I was up to. She said she was going to pick up something from the vacuum store, so I was like, why don't we go to the vacuum store together and then head over to the outdoor mall to chill afterwards. She agrees.

Chatting while we're walking, and she's actually asking me more questions about me than when I approached her. Later we were walking outside, I was just looking at her cute face with my neck slightly tilted upward, and she got all embarrassed like "omg...why are u looking at me...." "cuz ur so cute...but i only see the top half...." "ur gonna have to earn the rest of it..." I thought her deflection was cute so I wanted to keep hanging out with her.

She didn't want to get bubble tea or Starbucks, so I just said, why don't we just listen to music in the park area? She agrees.

I think this is where I might have been a bit fast, but we arrive at the park, and I decide to advance my usual colgate park music->dance->car->house plan. We listened to 1 song, and I briefly danced with her outside. Usually I listen to maybe 2-3 songs outside before going for pull to car, but she was like "this music would sound better if it was in a club". I decided to just say, well we can listen to the music in my car. She agrees to that and we head over to my car.

I tried to put my arm over her while we were walking once, but she kind of brushed it off. But she agreed to come with me to my car, and I thought she was cute otherwise so I didn't instantly leave looooool (I left instantly with the airport chick because I really didn't like her personality).

In my car, I play some more music and I put my arm over her and she's cool with it. I start looking at her deep in the eyes again, and she's like "omg....why are u looking at me again...." "cuz ur cute....but i only know the top half..." and then I tried to take off her mask. She's like omg nooooo. Maybe I should have just told her to take it off instead of doing it myself, but I think I literally couldn't control myself and I wanted to makeout with her right there. Probably next time I'll make sure she has her mask off first.

After a minute or two, she asks me if I'm married. I'm like no, lol what made u think that. She tells me she's not looking for a relationship. I'm like, yeah that's cool, and then continue what I was doing anyway. Honestly not really sure if I should be like "yeah, I'm looking for something casual and not serious" blah blah, especially with these Chinese girls from abroad. It just seemed like a standard deflection to not worry about. But I'm open for input on this point.

At some point I suggest picking up some wine and going back to my place. She's like I don't drink wine, but if you have tea or something that's fine. I probably could have just said, yeah we can see what I have at home and bounced her to my place, but I like looked up the freaking Japanese store that was closed on my phone and was like, shit the store is closed, it's already 7:15pm. She was like, oh it's 7:15? I think it's late, I have to go home. I told her we could hang out for an hour and then I'll bring her back to the mall, but she declined. So I just probed her week and told her we should meet for bubble tea near my place this week. She asked for my Facebook/Instagram, I was like I have Snapchat but don't you have my number? She was like I gave you mine but you didn't text me. So I just shot her my name.

Then I asked if she wanted me to walk her out to the mall and she said she could go by herself, so I just hugged her in my car and let her go. Then 2-3 hours later texted her I had fun spending time with her today.

So probably not going to turn into anything. I'll be shocked if she actually wants to meet up again. Additionally, I've never had an instadate meet up with me for a future date, so this would be new if it happened. I felt like I could have pushed the interaction further at certain points, but I've been trying to find the line between being forward and being overly pushy to where the girl doesn't want to see me again.

 

[MakingAComeback]

The discussion here was fucking phenomenal, thank you all for sharing bros.

I appreciate there are diff perspectives, ALL ARE VALID AND POWERFUL

When we share we all learn

Thank you so much

I loved Ariel's post, and also the legend ED'S post.

Ultimately where I want to end up is having abundance in my own mindset, and a positive outlook. I am working on it, and because I am working on it, it'll come like everything else.

I was just saying man, when you're down low, it's a different ballgame. The view ain't so pretty down here lol. Looksmaxxing does give you that little affirmation and boost you need when your psyche is a bit weakened from scarcity.

Not to be too rigid. We know what the deal is, we can only be where we are at this moment. That's the journey.

MC

 

[pancakemouse]

This is a hyper noob question, but what's the best way to text for getting cold approach numbers to meet up? I'll let @pancakemouse comment, but I don't think my "game" is so poor that girls should just ghost no matter what I text. So what remains?

I don't think it's your texting at all. As far as cold approach is concerned, the goal with texting is "don't fuck up". And you aren't fucking up.

I simply think your in-person interactions are not where they need to be to ensure that girls come out on a date with you.

I've been thinking about this a bit recently: In cold approach, like most skill games, there is a lot of nuanced leveling that you don't see when you first start.

As you and I both know, I played a sport at the highest level. I remember a couple years into this sport, I thought I was really good. Then I moved to a place with a lot of world-class players, and I couldn't understand why I was falling short. In my mind, I was every bit as good as the players I was competing against. It took me a couple more years of improvement and exposure to realize that their levels had far surpassed mine when I first played against them — I just wasn't perceptive enough to see the difference.

I believe that the same thing applies to any beginner in cold approach. What you describe as "good interactions" may be good by your yardstick, but to a more experienced observer, the frame is pretty clearly not one that is going to lead to a date, much less sex. Again, leveling: there are many, many different levels of good interaction, ranging from "fun friendly chat" to "30 minute instapull and bang".

For you, it's even harder. You don't have a full reference experience to compare to. Right now, you have some partials, like the car pull titty suck, but without a full reference experience, you can't look back and say "this girl is looking at me like that one girl did" or "the frame I'm setting in this interaction is similar to the one when... " or "this girl is responding to touch like..."

This is why my number one piece of advice to you has been to do everything you can to find a guy or guys who are experts at cold approach that you can just shadow in-person, watch their successful approaches, and ask yourself over and over what they're doing differently from you. Even then, you're not going to be able to imitate this overnight, because your brain will have to learn to "focus" to actually see the nuances of what they're doing, and even there, there's about a dozen layers you'd have to pick apart!

2022 is a rough time for daygame. The pandemic and the rise of apps have made it an order of magnitude tougher to get a girl out on a date. Remember, I had a streak of 70 contacts in Miami with no dates. If it was 2012, you'd probably be getting laid right now. But it's not. We who choose the cold approach life must accept this fact, and it pushes us to work ever harder.

P.S. you may ask, how are other guys running "basic guy daygame" getting girls out on dates so much easier? The answer is usually that they're the girl's type. If a girl likes you immediately, you can run "don't fuck it up" game with short interactions. The rest of us need Game.

At some point I suggest picking up some wine and going back to my place. She's like I don't drink wine, but if you have tea or something that's fine. I probably could have just said, yeah we can see what I have at home and bounced her to my place, but I like looked up the freaking Japanese store that was closed on my phone and was like, shit the store is closed, it's already 7:15pm. She was like, oh it's 7:15? I think it's late, I have to go home. I told her we could hang out for an hour and then I'll bring her back to the mall, but she declined. So I just probed her week and told her we should meet for bubble tea near my place this week. She asked for my Facebook/Instagram, I was like I have Snapchat but don't you have my number? She was like I gave you mine but you didn't text me. So I just shot her my name.

This is a good learning moment. We are both logical guys, and I used to struggle with this myself: pull excuses are not logical. They're an excuse, so they don't have to make sense. Once the girl agrees, bring her home. Women work on emotions, not logic. As long as you are stimulating her emotions, she doesn't care about the logical facts of what is happening.

By the way, did you notice that on both your instadates today, the girls either pulled you or asked to be pulled? Promising.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Weird thought experiment, but I'm gonna bite at this to see if something unfolds.

If I had absolutely zero repercussions, I'd want to literally go up to a girl and makeout with her.

But I can't do that because it's sexual harassment.

The next thing I could do is instantly put my arm over girls and shower them with compliments and then bring her back with me.

But I can't do that because it's also harassment.

I could just shower girls in compliments, because I mostly care about that. But then I like it even more if they act really cute about it. I wish they would just come back with me to my car and listen to music.

But I can't literally just instapull after I open her.

I can try to literally tell her what we're going to do while we talk. I wonder if any girls would be down for that? All I want to do is makeout and escalate on girls and have fun. Is that something I can talk about on approaches and/or dates/instadates? I guess the topic of sex always comes up. Maybe it'd help me filter harder. Am I just scared of being rejected for this? Maybe it'll help me find the girls actually down to fool around. How do you even get the conversation to this point as fast as possible? I don't care about random facts about her life. Sure we can get to know each other but I want to get to the raw and the passionate and the spontaneous. Who cares about what province in China she's from? Even if I can guess it somehow.

It's magical when I isolate a girl in a classroom and makeout with her and then get walked in on. It's fun and crazy for the girl too. I know she's into it, she was all up in my hair. How can I project this energy and confidence of knowing the girl is going to experience something crazy and fun if she rolls with me? How can I confidently escalate the interaction, especially verbally as quickly as possible? How can I get her to trust me, that I'm not going to lock her in a cold basement for ransom. How can I get her to let me lead the interaction and lose control?

Okay I think that thought experiment led me to ask the real questions of how I can improve my game. I just started with what I would like to do in a fantasy world and tried to step towards reality until I think I'm in the vicinity.

I would really appreciate some answers and guidance to my questions.

 

[pancakemouse]

How do you get to the raw, passionate, and spontaneous? How do you escalate an interaction as quickly as possible? Energy and compliance.

Energy
- Are you sinking into your heart?
- Are you triangulating your gaze?
- Is your tonality low and slow?
- Is your posture upright and confident?
- Are you moving slowly and with intention?
- Is your overt communication cocky and teasing?

Watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbVFVaqAlFA

Listen to the feedback the woman gives. This is how many subtle signs women take into account when determining how sexworthy you are. The only difference between this woman and other is that she knows how to analyze and verbalize them.

Similarly, the only difference between a "PUA" and a "natural" is that the PUA knows how to explain how one creates tension from the male perspective. You are not a natural, thus you must learn this block by block.

(by the way, your energy is nothing like the guy in the video. You're not nervous like he is. But he's slow, and you're fast. Brian Begin would tell you to "sink into your tension")

Compliance
- Is she laughing at your jokes?
- Does she meet your eye contact?
- Is she facing you, or turned away? Is she crossing her legs?
- When you step into the tension, does she back up, or does she embrace it?
- When you ask her to do things, does she comply?

When you have compliance, you "step forward": (touch, verbals, logistics).

When you have non-compliance, you "step back": (withdraw touch, teases).

Seduction is a subtle dance of non-overt communication. The more compliance you have, the more overt you can be with your escalation. The less compliance you have, the less overt you have to be (on the surface, you show her you don't want her, while still subtly flirting).

Think back to the black girl at Santana Row. How was I able to wrap my arms around her lower back and pull her into me within four minutes of meeting her? Compliance.

Approach. She's giggling. Compliance. OK, I can ask her to give me her hand now, with some dumb excuse like "let me test how drunk you are". Now I keep holding her hand. She doesn't let go. Compliance. I run my hands up her arms. She doesn't move back. Compliance. I keep testing compliance, and she keeps passing, all the way until we're embracing. THEN, because I knew you were filming and the set was dead anyway, I went for a big leap which was the makeout, and she pulls away. Non-compliance. Now I pull away as well and quickly agree "yeah, let's get to know each other first". Escalate on compliance, pull away on non-compliance. And then she invites me to accompany her to the bathroom... why? We've known each other for six minutes, but I've built a "bubble" of attraction around us. Even though she denied my big leap, because I pulled back, she's comfortable enough with me to keep the interaction going.

Now, this is a rare case. The girl was drunk, it was late at night, her guard was down.

The Asian girls you typically go for did not grow up in a culture of overt sexuality. Sex is something that was hidden to them, something that they may be ashamed or embarrassed about.

The more shame the girl has around sex, the less overt you can be, and the slooowwwwwer you have to be about it. What played out in that six minute set that night at Santana Row might be extended over multiple hours and multiple dates. But it's the same process, and how overt you can be with your escalation all depends on compliance.

The more compliance you have, the more you can talk about sex. If you don't have much compliance, you might just have to think about sex and talk about what province in China she grew up in. But while you're talking about this, there's this subtle undertone of "I want to fuck you" that you're bringing to your eyes, posture, and tonality.

Bring your energy to the interaction.
And test for compliance, always.
Escalate on compliance, step back on non-compliance.

This is how you win.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Wow this post is a huge unlock, since it directly answers how to handle "thirst" and "pussy beggar mindset". When I don't have any anxiety in a certain situation, it basically turns into greed and I can't control myself, and while there have been times where it absolutely turned the girl on (at least I think so), I've always gotten ghosted after that.

Energy
1. Are you sinking into your heart?
2. Are you triangulating your gaze?
3. Is your tonality low and slow?
4. Is your posture upright and confident?
5. Are you moving slowly and with intention?
6. Is your overt communication cocky and teasing?

1. never thought about it
2. what does this mean
3. working on it, i think it's getting better but still not exactly where it needs to be
4. yes
5. slowly, no. with intention, probably mostly but sometimes i'm indecisive in the moment so probably in those cases it reflects in my movement
6. i think when i get comfortable, yeah. like after i get the initial small talk hump, i start teasing the girl a lot. at least from my view. but definitely could be improved

And I think this is the crux of the post

When you have compliance, you "step forward": (touch, verbals, logistics).
When you have non-compliance, you "step back": (withdraw touch, teases).

I think I've been trying to push through anyway through "noncompliance". I have been leveling back recently and mostly ejecting when I get too much noncompliance, but it's basically needy. I think as I said earlier, once you get over the anxiety, you just become super needy for what you don't have enough of, and it's unattractive to girls and pushes them away.

I just need to learn how to properly back off without ejecting I suppose.

I've also experienced this firsthand, because my mom basically smothers me and all I want to do is push her away. And I have some other friends who are like that with me. I'm pretty sure I'm coming off this way to most girls I interact with as well. And what's crazy is that one chick I ended up declining in college, I basically was pushing away every advance she made towards me because I felt like she always wanted my attention and I just got annoyed.

As you said in another post, Game is just explicitly describing the behavior that naturals do to seduce women. I think I tried avoiding it for the most part because I just wanted to go out and be my authentic self, which is great and all, but ultimately learning some of these tactics would help me have better interactions with more girls more quickly because I haven't "naturally" figured it out (yet). And I don't have an abundance of girls or anything right now, so at least being able to fake the behaviors until it's natural will help (I learned a lot of Japanese by abusing the built-in translator in HelloTalk until I didn't need it anymore).

 

[colgate / bulldog]

Daygame
Tuesday 3/8: ~15 approaches, 2 instadates, 0 pull.

Honestly, I'm not really going to bother mentioning contact exchanges because I want to focus way more on instadates. I've had probably close to 20 instadates in the past 1.5 months and have managed to get the girl either in my car or to my place (or both) 4-5 times. (although I pulled twice from regular dates here).

Compared to having only going on regular dates with 3 girls, and those regular dates took 70+ contacts to get. I especially thought my session on Sunday was excellent and thought I had some solid contacts but they all ghosted.

Additionally, even the approaches pancakemouse saw and said "that was really good!!!" also ghosted (except one, who agreed to meet for date, then cancelled, then ghosted). So I'm only taking contacts (incidentally) if I think I'm getting the girl to "invest" in meeting up with me for a date and setting plans on the spot, but it's not going to be something I focus on. Because I can get a girl to just give me her phone number, and then nothing happens. And it's pretty annoying to have so many phone numbers and maybe have the sporadic text convo which also goes nowhere moment I pitch meeting up. And then it's the worst when she agrees to meet up but then cancels on the day of. Just a huge headache honestly, when I can instadate instead.

Btw, I saw the Ethiopian chick who ghosted me walking with her friend around the mall while I was sitting down playing poach mode (trash volume, so yeah). She was kind of nervously looking away from me and I just looked at her. She looked at me and I flashed a peace sign and she awkwardly waved and continued walking. Lol.

Instadates
1st instadate
Girl on campus sitting down drinking Jamba Juice. I had actually seen her like 15-20 mins prior, but didn't approach for some reason (I've been playing "sniper mode" on campus so I don't get notorious for approaching girls there). I just indirectly opened with "hey, didn't I see you earlier?" "yeah" and then hit her with the "well, you're actually pretty cute".

Not really sure if this is an "instadate" as much as it was a really long approach, but I sat next to her on the bench and we started chatting. Turns out she wasn't a student either lolllllll. Random physical touches here and there and then I eventually just put my arm over her. Convo was mainly just our background and where we were from, but I worked on talking real slow and having a lot of direct eye contact with her (kind of what pancakemouse mentioned in previous post, talk about whatever while imagining fucking her).

Maybe after 15-20 minutes, her phone alarm rings, and she's like "oh my parking expired". I told her she should park her car at my place and we should chill there some more. Back and forth over this maybe 5-6x, she was saying how she's a boring person and is done being spontaneous and just wants a structured life now. "u can walk with me to my car tho".

I walk with her maybe 10 steps, and then decide to stop her. I decide to probe some future date logistics but she keeps maybe-ing and idk-ing me. At first I decide to say, well let me grab your number real quick, but she says "idk I don't want to give you my number and then disappoint you...". I told her no pressure, I'm cool with this being the only time we meet. She was like "yeah, I didn't expect anyone to come up to me like that". "Have you been approached before when you were a student here?" "Yeah, a few times actually..."

So I put my hand on her waist and her shoulder and bring her close to me and we lock eyes.
We're never going to see each other again.
oh...oh?
Kiss me.
...only the cheeks...

So I kissed her on the cheeks and tried for the lips but she deflected. "yeah, I can't do that...it's too much...". Then we parted ways.

2nd instadate
Saw plaid shirt cute brunette Chinese chick at the mall. Opened with "the top half of your face is cute". She was stunned at first, but then giggled a lot,.

"I don't know about the bottom half, but we'll just go with the top".

She was on her way to get dumplings. We made some small talk. Then I stopped us from walking and told her, "I want to get dumplings with you". She agrees.

20 minute wait. I had said earlier I came to the mall because I was looking for jeans (I actually was haha). She said do you want to go shopping for your jeans? I was like yeah okay, and she followed me to the store.

She was hyper adorable and always asking if she could do things for me. I told her "u should be my secretary". Probably one of the cutest girls I've met.

At the jeans store, I told her "I need you to take a picture so I can send this to my style consultant." She was like "whaaa" and started giggling for the 46th time since we met and poking me. "I'm serious. I know I've been joking with you a lot but I'm for real. I have a style consultant. This isn't a joke." She took a picture of me wearing the jeans and I sent it to Radical and showed her, "see, this is my style consultant" and she started giggling more.

At some point she suggested we go into the store the Ethiopian chick works at. I probably should have just said nah, I don't want to go there, but I said okay, and then I was like "some girl I was dating works there actually, it'd be crazy if we ran into her". I think this ticked off her logical brain because then she started lightly probing me "do u date girls at the mall?" I'm like "yes, where else are there girls?"

We ended up not running into Ethiopian chick at the store.

Eventually, our table was ready at the dumpling restaurant. I told her to sit next to me and brought the second set of plates to my side. The waitress was like "oooohhhh", and I had my arm around her waist as we ordered food. Then she went to the bathroom for a hot second.

Sat back next to me, but then 2-3 minutes later asked if she could sit across from me instead cuz she's scared of covid. I was like "you're scared of covid? you're wearing a mask u must be unvaccinated" "omg no nono im vaccinated...." "me too. anyway if you want to sit across that's fine". Turns out she was left-handed so we might have just been bumping elbows, but I think even if she weren't, she probably would have asked to sit across.

Food came and she was serving me a bit. Ate food, and she asked me a lot of questions about me and my life. Just mainly talked about my job and being a minimalist. I also liked looking at her face a lot and she was like "omg....u keep making me laugh by looking at me....".

Split the bill, and then took her hand and we held hands walking around the mall. I just decided to go for the listen to music in car pull. Initially she was like uhh ok, but then got cold feet after a minute. I kinda switched back into my old pushy style for some reason, which was probably a bad idea. I think I just didn't really know what to do. She was like "I want to go to my car...but idk where it is". Basically the next 10+ minutes was us holding hands (sometimes I disengaged, sometimes put arm over her, sometimes over waist, sometimes holding hands) walking around the mall while she probed me on my dating history, and I tried to get her to come to my car. Honestly pretty disastrous from my end.

At some point she was like "I'm way older than you...I don't date younger guys...", I said "you're my 21 year old gf, what are u talking about". She giggled for the 138th time since we met and we went back and forth on the age thing. Finally I was just like "ok, ok, but how old are u?" She was like "guess, it's way older than you think" "37". She giggled like "omg how did you know????" (but she probably would have had that reaction no matter what number I said).

So more arguing about future dating and coming to my car while holding hands and giggling. "when was the last time you dated?" "ummm....before the pandemic" "yeah, pandemic is over, it's time to start a new life".

Eventually we got to one of the exits where she said her car was. We kept arguing about the dating thing and I just said "what's all this about dating anyway? you're like trying to plan us a wedding already?" "omg no....i just...don't want to mess around". Then we walked for a bit and I was like "you don't have a car." "omg??? how did you know????" I tried telling her I could just give her a ride (kind of knowing that it wouldn't work), and she declined.

So I stopped us. Pulled her close into me and put her head on my shoulder while I stroked her hair. I did that for like 30 seconds, but I probably should have done it for longer because there was still way too much crazy energy. Then I brought her face up, and tried to go for the makeout, but she deflected. I pretty much disengaged, said like "we'll never see each other again. just once." and tried 3x but no dice. Eventually I let her go.

Lessons
Okay lots of points I fucked up here.
1. Should have completely cut off the entire branch of going to the store where the Ethiopian chick worked at by just saying "nah let's not go there". Got her thinking way too much about serious dating instead of enjoying the ride. In general, this girl was already quite receptive and bubbly to me and I let it get to my ego and started just mega-flexing on her about my supposed "dating history". If the girl clearly already likes me, I need to freaking chill with that shit and actually escalate the interaction instead.
2. Should have baby stepped the car pull like I usually do with listening to music on my phone. I've pulled to my car no resistance 3/3 times this way, while I'm like 0/10+ direct from the mall. It's just too much of a jump to go from mall to random dude's car with no other context. I think I didn't do it because it was already like 9pm, and I was being impatient. I also thought maybe the fact we just went on a freaking dinner instadate and already holding hands was probably good enough, but I guess not. i misjudged the compliance i had i guess. ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
3. Behavior once she wouldn't car pull just felt like I was getting needier and needier. Kind of felt like I lost control of the interaction. Don't really know where I should have ended this interaction honestly. But I liked stroking her hair at the end lol....
4. When we were standing outside, should have let us close hug in silence for waaaaaay longer than 30 seconds. I'm too fast, like a puppy dog, and it gets me incessantly deflected on escalation. Need to sit in escalation tension way more.

 

[colgate / bulldog]

I wrote this up in a random lucid moment I had in bed. It's mainly me talking with myself, and very relevant to that black pill approach session I had on Saturday. I wish the below piece existed on that day because it would have helped me a lot.

I think this piece will continue to help me if I read it over and over because I've been getting caught up in chalking things up purely on looks, and having many moments of sinking feelings and latent defeat due to it, despite the veritable progress and new experiences I have had so far.

Additionally, there are many things outside of looks which are far more difficult to admit that you have to change, because it requires changing who you are, or maybe those changes are more complex. It's easier to just say "oh that guy looks better" and give up/become complacent.

Anyway, here it is.


Using looks as a shield for your own incompetence
Comparing your situation in life to others' based on your physical appearance is a common, but simpleton mindset.

Essentially, it comes down to "something about my life sucks compared to these other people's because they look better than I do".

And this isn't entirely false. We don't live in a magical fairy tale world where everyone is judged solely on how "good" their character is. People might claim that's what they do, but deep down it's not the case.

Yes, some people will naturally look better than others. Not everyone starts with an equal base. Life isn't fair that way, but if you're an adult you should have already come to terms with this fact.

But where some people get this wrong is that they believe their own looks are *wholly* immutable.

When you have an attitude of giving up on life because you believe your looks are subpar, it holds an air of not only laziness but also entitlement.

Lazy because you've decided you don't need to make any of the simple and immediate changes to your style and grooming, while also not taking care of your fitness and diet for longer term health.

Entitled because you believe that the world should be handed to you just because you exist and you don't need to make changes. In other words, you might observe certain people getting whatever they want and living a life that seems handed to them on a silver platter just because they're attractive. Guess what, you're probably entirely correct. So what are you going to do about it? You can either try your best anyway or take the black pill and die. Many people don't want to try in the first place though.

Your body and fitness can be seen as a direct reflection of your own work ethic and how much you're *really* trying to live your best life. Are you fat and/or weak? Are you more average? Are you strong? Someone who's as fit as possible is more likely to also excel in other areas of their life, because others can see how they've taken care of their body. An elite body is immediately associated with elite wealth and an elite lifestyle for example. Meanwhile, a fat slob or a skinny twig is probably poor and hides themselves in a room all day, contributing nothing to society. What reason does anyone have to associate with them?

Looks are not just a superficial thing, so stop having the mindset that being judged for it is. You have all the power to bring yourself up to an elite body, no one is stopping you. If you can do that, people will automatically treat you better because they will extrapolate that you likely also have an elite lifestyle.

Using looks as an excuse for low success in your life is also a shield for your own incompetence. By saying your looks are the problem, you can conveniently drop other issues you might have, because you can delude yourself into believing that "even if I fix my other problems, it won't matter because my looks will always hinder me". This is some satisfying mental masturbation, but have you really fixed your other issues? Are you even aware of your other issues? Come back to me if you're truly a charismatic go-getter but you're still having major hurdles due to your looks. I highly doubt you'll be living a dreary life if you actually thought about and worked on your other issues, even if you don't end up directly focusing on improving your looks.

And if you still think you're such a great person, and looks are really your bottleneck, then why aren't you close to your natural potential in looks yet? There's literally no reason not to max out your own looks. Unless you're lazy and a quitter and believe you're not worth existing and having the life you want. Which in that case, go ahead and complain about how your looks are stopping you from doing anything, wither away, and die in depression, because you couldn't get over your own physical appearance.