GN's Progress Log - Self-Love Arc: A bit better this week + Physique Update

[G.N]

I also listened to the voice recording you sent me. Here are the notes I took:


-Unnecessary to say about times, say I showed up a little early and she did on time

-More detail on initial hug, how does she seem to really feel (I.e does she press into you)

-Calibrate off a hug, set tone for how to calibrate rest of the date

-Omit stuff about her never being to a place. Mention the water thing and that I paid and that she was willing to pay.

-How fast drinks come is useless unless it affects date vibes

-Generic conversation topics are useless
->I use this to figure out what she is most passionate about. I notice whenever a girl is very passionate about something its easy to bounce off good vibes with her and generally paint myself in a favorable light because its easy for me to be curious about her interests which because hell I enjoy learning about other people.

-I did future project being there to watch her perform for the group at the hospital
->In hindsight it could have been great to tease here cuz she said that she gets even more anxious when ppl she knows watch her. I could have jokingly said that I’ll be the harshest critic I can.

-Need to push the date forward. Basic information exchange is irrelevant if it does not push the date forward.

-Give little to no validation, qualify her playing. How she reacts to my gamey statements is relevant information.

-More details on statements about body language. No statements like “nothing stands out”

-Shorten escalation bits into “I kinoed her by using her accessories as an excuse”

-Detail her level of investment, I am only yapping

-Asking about how long she has been on the app good for understanding her archetype

-Tell her “let’s head out” instead of asking if she wanted to head out.

-Holding hands could be lame
->I am only doing this cuz most of these girls seem to be mainly after relationships that’s why

-Should ask her when she was planning to. She just said “after this”. It was vague. It is my mistake for not asking.

-Don’t prioritize building comfort when she is in my place

-Get closer to her ASAP, arm around her back thighs touching

-If she is not initially sitting down next to me, find excuse to get up and then sit next to her

-Don’t mention much about the convo if it doesn’t get me closer to what I want

-Leave a thread hanging, don’t always need to close. If a current convo gone boring then bring up old thread

-Always open threads

-For the girl who was not looking at me, can do like an L1 callout.

-Constantly assess physical proximity and compliance

-Asses her logistics if she says she needs to go somewhere.
-> in hindsight possibly get her to be specific of when she needs to leave so I can plan my escalation more timely.

-Shorten the fuck out of conversation bits, detail on escalation and date forwarding

-ONLY evaluate in terms of emotional investment and how emotionally charged she seems to be

-laying down shit was kind of dumb. Could just kiss them sitting up.

-Should pull her a bit away during makeout to tease the kiss

-Call out her shyness more -> further my agenda

 

[Antonio44]

I wasn’t really sure how to move from here so I say how about we just lay down and talk. Initially she objects saying she doesn’t usually go to guys places on first dates. I think like right after she gets a call from her friend asking her where she is cuz apparently they were planning to get crumbl at 8:40. Keep in mind I can hear her friends voice on the call. It’s 8:35 right now. She tells them she’s still on the date and she’ll be done soon. She gives them the apartment addy so they can pick her up. She mentions how all her friends have each others locations.

Call ends, I just say she can chill until her friends come. She finally agrees to just lay down. We talk a little bit and then there’s a pause and we are like looking right at each other. So we get to making out for a bit and I try to pull her a bit closer to me but she rejects this. We make out a little more but she ends it prematurely talking about how shy she is. I think I was slightly panicky esp with the friends thing so I make it clear I’m not gonna force her to do anything she’s not comfortable with (May have been bad in the moment to say this but idk). She then asks me if I’m doing anything Friday and she says she isn’t. I say why don’t we make food at my place or something. She agrees and we set a time. We get up off my bed and I get her to my door. I do touch her a bit more, give her ass a light squeeze and we kiss on the way out.

TBH, this seems fairly good. I reckon you were probably just a little bit nervous at the end and that maybe put her off a little. There are a few little nuances that could be picked out, but I think fundamentally, you're getting in the right spot, just repeat a few times and relax, if she rejects a step, relax, it's just her saying "not yet". You're in your bed kissing a girl, enjoy it.

It's a bit of a circle in that once you've had a few girls on your bed and fucked a few of them, you get much more comfortable in that situation which relaxes you, which makes it much easier to close more. You will break into it.



Don't sweat the ghosting thing either.

Middle eastern chicks are underrated af ngl.

.

So true! One of the most stunning girls I have ever failed to close was a palestinian, 18 with curves like a mermaid, hypnotic to look at her.

Fodu told me she could just be comfort cuck. I’ve done this basic escalation routine with other girls and they have been cool with it, I have a routine around escalation because I don’t want to stir the pot an insane amount. Subtle hand touches and arm around at least the way I see it puts a “you and me” frame for comfort rather than a “I want to fuck the shit out of you” frame. I’m too noob to be too sexual right off the bat. @Antonio44 if you want to weigh in too I’d appreciate your feedback as well.

Weirdly I didn't get the notification for the tag on this one! Girls can be weird sometimes, if it's her first online date she might just be really cautious. And the hugging/no public kissing might be a cultural thing especially if arab. But stuff like this happens to us all occasionally, like I still remember going on a date from tinder in Portugal when the girl told me explicitly beforehand "I want to have sex tonight", then rejected me because I was "too touchy" by immediately hugging her.



Overall - I reckon - just keep getting more dates, in the evenings if possible, and try to relax when you get them back to yours. You are doing a lot of things right.

 

[RecoveringNiceGuy]

I didn’t think I did anything too bad. Hell I backed off at times because I really wanted to be sure I didn’t make the same mistakes I did with the chubby East Asian cuz that was a serious fucking blunder.

First off, awesome that you’re being this intentional and rigorous about improving your skills with girls while you’re still in college. I wish I’d done this when I was your age. Your work now is going to pay off.

But honestly, when I read this date log, I understood why this girl didn’t want to see you again (though reporting you on Hinge was excessive, based on what you described), and I don’t think it was just her friends’ influence.

My big takeaway from the second part of the date is that she gave you some pretty clear signals she didn’t want to hook up with you that day, then you ignored them and tried to escalate toward a hookup anyway.

As I’ve learned myself, girls are very sensitive to even the slightest hint of the feeling that you’re trying to manipulate them into having sex with you, even if you don’t feel like you’re doing that at all. What to you might feel like leading and being confident/assertive can feel to a girl that you’re trying to scheme your way into her pants.

Things like leading a girl to your apartment without asking if she wants to go there, then later escalating after she expresses discomfort with the idea of even laying down on your bed are pretty likely to make the girl feel like you’re trying to pull a fast one on her.

Being uncalibrated at times is normal and is part of the process of getting better with women. Since we’re the ones who have to take the initiative and risk rejection, we’re the ones who have to make the awkward mistakes along the way as we learn how to read a girl’s indicators of interest/disinterest. That’s especially true in college.

But there’s a big difference between going for a kiss on the sidewalk when she doesn’t want one and giving a girl who’s on your bed the feeling that you’re trying to hook up with her after she’s indicated to you that she doesn’t want to. The former is an innocent misread, the latter can feel more serious to her.

And what looks like compliance from her in the moment can just as easily be her being non-confrontational and following the path of least resistance. There’s a good chance she’ll hide her discomfort until she becomes so uncomfortable that she can’t hold back anymore, at which point she might give what looks to us like a very subtle indicator of disinterest.

I know this because I’ve experienced it in situations — like a second or third date where the girl agreed to come to my place — where I thought it was reasonable for me to assume the girl was interested in hooking up. And I’ve had a couple of girls ghost or straight up leave my place after what I felt was very mild escalation that they weren’t into. I realized that what I actually did mattered less than what my actions said about my intentions. And since I hadn’t done anything to screen for what she wanted to do that night aside from escalating until she stopped me, she likely felt like she couldn’t trust me.

I’m saying this as someone who is in the process of learning to do this myself, but the types of risks you want to take are in expressing to her what you want and owning it, knowing full well that she might not want the same thing — not in escalating as much as you can until she stops you. Ask her what she’s looking for from Hinge/Bumble/dating in general on your first date knowing she might say something that’s totally incompatible with what you want, ask her if she wants to come back to your place on a first date knowing she might find it socially unacceptable, ask her if she wants to move to your bed knowing she might want to stay on your couch.

 

[G.N]

I wasn’t really sure how to move from here so I say how about we just lay down and talk. Initially she objects saying she doesn’t usually go to guys places on first dates. I think like right after she gets a call from her friend asking her where she is cuz apparently they were planning to get crumbl at 8:40. Keep in mind I can hear her friends voice on the call. It’s 8:35 right now. She tells them she’s still on the date and she’ll be done soon. She gives them the apartment addy so they can pick her up. She mentions how all her friends have each others locations.

Call ends, I just say she can chill until her friends come. She finally agrees to just lay down. We talk a little bit and then there’s a pause and we are like looking right at each other. So we get to making out for a bit and I try to pull her a bit closer to me but she rejects this. We make out a little more but she ends it prematurely talking about how shy she is. I think I was slightly panicky esp with the friends thing so I make it clear I’m not gonna force her to do anything she’s not comfortable with (May have been bad in the moment to say this but idk). She then asks me if I’m doing anything Friday and she says she isn’t. I say why don’t we make food at my place or something. She agrees and we set a time. We get up off my bed and I get her to my door. I do touch her a bit more, give her ass a light squeeze and we kiss on the way out.

TBH, this seems fairly good. I reckon you were probably just a little bit nervous at the end and that maybe put her off a little. There are a few little nuances that could be picked out, but I think fundamentally, you're getting in the right spot, just repeat a few times and relax, if she rejects a step, relax, it's just her saying "not yet". You're in your bed kissing a girl, enjoy it.

It's a bit of a circle in that once you've had a few girls on your bed and fucked a few of them, you get much more comfortable in that situation which relaxes you, which makes it much easier to close more. You will break into it.



Don't sweat the ghosting thing either.

Middle eastern chicks are underrated af ngl.

.

So true! One of the most stunning girls I have ever failed to close was a palestinian, 18 with curves like a mermaid, hypnotic to look at her.

Fodu told me she could just be comfort cuck. I’ve done this basic escalation routine with other girls and they have been cool with it, I have a routine around escalation because I don’t want to stir the pot an insane amount. Subtle hand touches and arm around at least the way I see it puts a “you and me” frame for comfort rather than a “I want to fuck the shit out of you” frame. I’m too noob to be too sexual right off the bat. @Antonio44 if you want to weigh in too I’d appreciate your feedback as well.

Weirdly I didn't get the notification for the tag on this one! Girls can be weird sometimes, if it's her first online date she might just be really cautious. And the hugging/no public kissing might be a cultural thing especially if arab. But stuff like this happens to us all occasionally, like I still remember going on a date from tinder in Portugal when the girl told me explicitly beforehand "I want to have sex tonight", then rejected me because I was "too touchy" by immediately hugging her.



Overall - I reckon - just keep getting more dates, in the evenings if possible, and try to relax when you get them back to yours. You are doing a lot of things right.

Im definitely nervous because if one girl doesn't fw me for reasons its fine but when she spreads it around it could be a bad rep.

There are several things that I think are holding me back from effectively building tension but I think a lot of it comes down to bad calibration but that also comes from just being nervous in general. I made improvements to my pictures and I have finally started getting some dates with girls I am attracted to so yeah thats why.

I think I need to be more considerate with how I escalate instead of a one size fits all sort of routine. For her I agree I think since it was her first date in like 3-4 years as well as first online date I maybe should have just ended it with a hug and maybe just done some very light touches. I usually ask about their dating history later into the date due to being nervous but I figure maybe I should ask about it early on and then work from there?

 

[G.N]

I didn’t think I did anything too bad. Hell I backed off at times because I really wanted to be sure I didn’t make the same mistakes I did with the chubby East Asian cuz that was a serious fucking blunder.

First off, awesome that you’re being this intentional and rigorous about improving your skills with girls while you’re still in college. I wish I’d done this when I was your age. Your work now is going to pay off.

But honestly, when I read this date log, I understood why this girl didn’t want to see you again (though reporting you on Hinge was excessive, based on what you described), and I don’t think it was just her friends’ influence.

My big takeaway from the second part of the date is that she gave you some pretty clear signals she didn’t want to hook up with you that day, then you ignored them and tried to escalate toward a hookup anyway.

As I’ve learned myself, girls are very sensitive to even the slightest hint of the feeling that you’re trying to manipulate them into having sex with you, even if you don’t feel like you’re doing that at all. What to you might feel like leading and being confident/assertive can feel to a girl that you’re trying to scheme your way into her pants.

Things like leading a girl to your apartment without asking if she wants to go there, then later escalating after she expresses discomfort with the idea of even laying down on your bed are pretty likely to make the girl feel like you’re trying to pull a fast one on her.

Being uncalibrated at times is normal and is part of the process of getting better with women. Since we’re the ones who have to take the initiative and risk rejection, we’re the ones who have to make the awkward mistakes along the way as we learn how to read a girl’s indicators of interest/disinterest. That’s especially true in college.

But there’s a big difference between going for a kiss on the sidewalk when she doesn’t want one and giving a girl who’s on your bed the feeling that you’re trying to hook up with her after she’s indicated to you that she doesn’t want to. The former is an innocent misread, the latter can feel more serious to her.

And what looks like compliance from her in the moment can just as easily be her being non-confrontational and following the path of least resistance. There’s a good chance she’ll hide her discomfort until she becomes so uncomfortable that she can’t hold back anymore, at which point she might give what looks to us like a very subtle indicator of disinterest.

I know this because I’ve experienced it in situations — like a second or third date where the girl agreed to come to my place — where I thought it was reasonable for me to assume the girl was interested in hooking up. And I’ve had a couple of girls ghost or straight up leave my place after what I felt was very mild escalation that they weren’t into. I realized that what I actually did mattered less than what my actions said about my intentions. And since I hadn’t done anything to screen for what she wanted to do that night aside from escalating until she stopped me, she likely felt like she couldn’t trust me.

I’m saying this as someone who is in the process of learning to do this myself, but the types of risks you want to take are in expressing to her what you want and owning it, knowing full well that she might not want the same thing — not in escalating as much as you can until she stops you. Ask her what she’s looking for from Hinge/Bumble/dating in general on your first date knowing she might say something that’s totally incompatible with what you want, ask her if she wants to come back to your place on a first date knowing she might find it socially unacceptable, ask her if she wants to move to your bed knowing she might want to stay on your couch.

So sorry I took a while to respond to this. I didn’t want to project too strong of emotions onto you as I’m still pretty upset over my ban.

I think maybe you are right, me being close to her she chose to kiss as it was the path of least resistance to her.

I should likely probe deeper during the date what she wants out of dating and what her dating past (not necessarily sexual past) was like. She told me some guys on the apps were weird to her and I think what I did might have put me in the same box therefore I was banned.

I guess I’m just trying really hard even when I shouldn’t because my profile doesn’t screen for causal very well and hinge usually an app for more serious people. But in my case I like this app because my match quality is solid and I can get dates.

I think I’ll just have to take things slightly slower especially with relationship chicks. Relationship girls use first dates as vibe checks so maybe just pass that and do some slight intimacy like a goodbye kiss/hug and some incidental touches. I can work later to get her straight to my place and get her more comfortable with me.

 

[G.N]

2/19

Daily Actions:

->Weekly Gym: 0/3
->Today's Calories: 1939 cal
->Today's Sugar intake: 96g
->Today's Protein Intake: 136g

Notes:

Negative:

Had a very stressful week last week and I made the mistake of barely posting here. The Hinge ban has been affecting me mentally quite a bit because it feels unfair. I tried making a Tinder again but they banned me there too. Right now I am only on Bumble but I honestly think this app has fallen off because the girls are so much lower quality than Hinge or Tinder. Theres also more girls outside my age range (22-25) than in my age range (18-21). Most of my matches are 18-21 year olds across all the apps. Ive been on for about 2-3 days now and my profile got over 15 likes with the new pictures. Some decent matches in there but the girls here are also incredibly cuck. Interestingly enough a couple of them had their social media in their bio but still messaged me and were real. I guess social media isn't an immediate write off like I thought it was.

Spent a lot of the weekend trying to reset my accounts but I couldn't figure it out. Eventually when I started taking it slowly it made sense. But I haven't finished and I have shelled out 70$. I really hope it isn't all for nothing because while I was trying and failing yesterday and day before it really felt like it was.

I had my physical biochem exam last week and it was just awful. One of the questions that was worth the most I had no idea how to do so I just unleashed some max level bullshit. I definitely failed the fuck out of that exam.

My diet in the past week just kind of fell apart again and I was ordering a fuck ton of takeout. Got back on watching my calories today. Imperfect but I am getting back. I didn't go to the gym at all last week except for Sunday.

I was having a hard time dealing with my research mentor because I think I just didn't want to deal with them since I was so pissed about the Hinge ban + PBiochem exam and it sort of showed. She is kind of snarky and basically told me to my face she doesn't trust me cuz of a few mess-ups I have done. She also said I just "do whatever I want" when I am told something when that wasn't even true because I always ask questions on if I am doing something right but I didn't want to talk back because it could be a bad look. Initially I took it as a personal attack (knee jerk), but I talked it over with my mom and just spent some time reflecting on it and realized I need to change my mindset.

Positive:

I followed a bunch of steps Loki sent me and I think I am super close to getting that full reset to get back on the apps. I am busy as fuck right now so I may finish it over the weekend. Ill have to go about 5 miles away from campus to get this full reset situated so I don't get IP sniped. Now I just need to create a new Apple ID with a temp mail, use the datingzest numbers, and then alter my photos.

Physical biochem I took initiative and got every last TAs office hours so I carved out time I can go to office hours. I have availability for it. I have roughly figured out a method to get better at this class. Since his lectures are just him talking at us, I will just listen to keywords about what the lesson is on and then punch it into youtube. Finding youtube videos on class topics is surprisingly not that difficult. This professor is just hard to follow because he just writes shit on a chalkboard and its mega cluttered.

I have done a good job keeping up with Mol Gen this unit. I have an exam next Wednesday so if I continue staying on top. I can use the last few days leading up to the exam to properly review and I should hopefully do really well this time.

I sent an email to my Ochem professor who I had two years ago to ask for a letter of rec and he said he would love to write me one. We set up a meeting so I can probably refresh him on what I accomplished in his class and mention my tutoring side gig and how it ties into what his class did for me.

Research post reflection I realized that me having an attitude towards my mentor even if I find her annoying does not serve me. I need to be more aware at every turn what actions do for me and if they serve me. They aren't trying to bully me or attack me. They want me to do better, they have high expectations of me and right now I am frustrating them because I am not delivering. I should be grateful for this opportunity as not everyone gets to do work under such a well respected professor. Point being, I need to be coachable and just listen to what I am told. I also have the issue of comparing myself to my senior colleagues. This is dumb, again it doesn't serve me so rather what I will do is learn from them and ask questions in an inquisitive way. need to prove to them I am competent.

I have to wake up at 6 tomorrow to start an experiment again that I initially failed. Only difference is this time my mentor is watching over me. I am gonna keep faith in myself and hope for the best I am successful this time.

 

[G.N]

2/20

Daily Actions:

->Weekly Gym: 1/3
->Today's Calories: 1830 cal
->Today's Sugar intake: 47g
->Today's Protein Intake: 149g

Notes:

Woke up early as fuck and made it to lab at 8. Started the experiment and things were going good. I finished stage 1 before volunteering so I came on time but I was told I needed to check my experiments progress 2 hours from now which was a little before my shift ended so I had to ask to leave early. Right as I was about to head to my shift I realized I forgot my uniform so I had to borrow a shirt from the volunteer office and I forgot to wear black pants too as I rolled up to lab in blue jeans. Luckily nobody noticed and shift went good.

Got back to lab, experiment actually has been having the desired results. Next stage involved a long ass waiting period so I just ate lunch and studied till it was time to get back to work. Got back to work and finished the experiment strong. There was one moment that could have ended my entire experiment but I got super lucky the worst outcome did not happen.

Finished around 6PM and went to the gym. Had a pretty solid chest workout but realized I forgot to pick up dinner so I had to order out. Tried some new Indian place and it was pretty fire so that made me happy.

On the dating front I have been picking up some matches on Bumble. Some pretty attractive ones too but I am noticing that girls having social media in bio doesn't necessarily mean bot as some actually have messaged me. This morning I matched with this attractive latina nurse and this kinda alt chick with a banging body. Yesterday I matched with this one girl who was really fucking far away and I tried to set up a date but apparently she lives with her parents so she cannot come to where I live. A couple other leads I scraped up from Bumble are HEAVY comfort cucks. I don't know what it is about Bumble girls but its like some shit always gets in the way of a date. One chick is literally working constantly, the other was just "lets talk some more" , other had basically no availability except for my busy days, and this recent one was located too damn far away.

 

[G.N]

Date Log: Traveling Brunette from Hinge

This date took place the day before the Biracial BBW date. I initially didn't think it was worth writing about but after analyzing my weak-points I think I should post it.

Date was at a coffee shop near my place. I get to the crosswalk that I need to cross to get to the place and I see a girl standing there on her phone. She immediately recognizes me and says Hey but I don't recognize her immediately. I greet her with a hug. The hug was good but nothing felt notable. I could gauge she was comfortable but it wasn't that long. A couple seconds at best.

From her pictures she looked incredibly skinny but she looked more normal weight in person. She's a decently cute brunette so the attraction is there. She asks me about my major and we yap a bit about school while waiting for the crosswalk to give us the walk sign.

Got to the place and I was ticked off that the seats that would have been good for being able to touch her were taken so we had to sit at a table across from each other. I wasn't sure whether to say anything about this so I just didn't open my mouth. We ordered some coffee and I paid for hers. No verbal back and forth or anything I just whip out my card.

Get seated and start talking. I honestly am gonna omit most of the yap because I don't think it served much of any purpose (my fault I’ll talk more about it in notes). What I gauge is that she is uber passionate about traveling hence why I denote her as a "traveling brunette".

The only two or three notable topics we talked about were first about baking. She asks me about my hobbies first and ofc baking is one of the ones I bring up, she says the same so I ask her if she got a sweet tooth since I figure its something I can tease her about since I have been teased about it in the past. She says not really but like soon after she whips out her phone and shows me a lot of the stuff she has made and I am just commenting basic shit but after she puts her phone away I call it out saying that she claims to not have a sweet tooth because she is guilty or some bs like that. Sort of better tease.

I was able to get her talking about slightly deeper topics like she said how she is really into philosophy and is taking a class on it. She says its not something a lot of people know about her so she mentioned some interesting stuff and I am just kinda inquiring about it. The only significance I felt this had was that its deeper than basic topics like hobbies and occupation but I couldn't calibrate jack shit off of it.

At one point I kinoed her using her rings as a conversation starter and touched her hands. She told me about some places she has been to where she got them which was cool. Shit I still didn't calibrate well off of this.

Because of the seating position I was at least able to have good eye contact with her but escalation physically was really dead in the water. I think my brain reverted to default conversation settings during the date because I’m so used to being like right next to her as opposed to across.

It was also difficult to gauge her body language whether it was positive or negative so really anything noteworthy I figured came from her face or her reaction to me touching her hands. She didn’t try to pull her hands away from me. I naturally did this because I didn’t want to overstay my welcome.

She mentioned she needed to go back and study for an exam by 8 right after we leave the shop at 7:40. Another mistake I make is that my dates are too fucking long. We met at 6 or 6:30 I don't remember now.

I also just fucking realized I didn’t ask her about the relationships thing. I tried to ask if she wanted to come back to mines for a bit. Kept using the exam blockers and I realized I didn’t do much well this date so I figured I’d try to seed second date or something while walking her back to hers since she lives close.

She says we can split at the halfway point between each of our places which I agree to. We hold hands till there and I ask her about how long she’s been on Hinge and she says like a month or so. She said she tried tinder first but hated it. I don’t know why I did not probe more. I think I’m still too nervous. At this point I need to drop this dilly dally shit and just ask about her relationships. This was a bad bit because I basically gained nothing of value out of asking her this.

We got to the halfway point and she and I leaned in for a kiss at the same time.


Reflections:

At the time of the date I thought it went good and I’d see her again but it’s been over a week so safe to say I’m not seeing her again.

I’m not gonna sugarcoat it tbh besides some improvements off my earliest dates this was one of my worst performances. I got so in my head and scared that I didn’t do enough to get her compliant/comfortable enough. Date felt so much like an exchange of info. I’m only engaging her logical side and not her emotional side.

Really I should be asking about her past relationships early on in the date. Like right after basic introductions and what we each do for fun.

Conversations need to serve a purpose. I need to lead them towards getting her more compliant. The only conversation bit I thought I did good on was the thing about the sweet tooth. I figure if I work in more lines an vibes like that I can get her more compliant.

My next few dates I’m gonna focus more on risk taking and seizing every good opportunity I can to build tension and attraction. I need to tease more and stir the pot some more. My main worry is that she’s gonna find what I say cringe and I lose any opportunity to get laid.

But it’s not like I’m getting laid right now so I’ve got very little to lose trying something entirely new.

 

[Antonio44]

Date felt so much like an exchange of info. I’m only engaging her logical side and not her emotional side.

Really I should be asking about her past relationships early on in the date. Like right after basic introductions and what we each do for fun.

Conversations need to serve a purpose. I need to lead them towards getting her more compliant. The only conversation bit I thought I did good on was the thing about the sweet tooth. I figure if I work in more lines an vibes like that I can get her more compliant.

Again, this still seems alright! Like you went out with her, knew she had 8pm appointment, and still managed to hold her hand and kiss her at the end.

On the convo - I know a lot of folk are very “must be sexual man/woman convo” but I never bother. Like sometimes if a woman brings it up I’ll ask about any relationships stories, but tbh I never try to, been on of most of my dates without talking about it. Just kinda chat about mutual interests/experiences while occasionally teasing them and occasional touch. It is occasional though- I absolutely love girls who can banter back and forth with me, but even so 80% of the time we’re just chatting typical interesting life stories etc and not being funny, just gradually get more touchy etc.

Like I’d totally spend 30 minutes talking with a girl about baking if she was into it, for example, and in that time I’d know a lot about her and vice versa, childhood memories baking, how I used to steal my grandmothers biscuits but share them with my sister, naughtiest thing she did as a kid, how my ex was a pastry chef, if you’ve ever done body shots. Etc etc - point is don’t stress the topic too much, just relax and enjoy - you’re obviously a smart guy so you want to overanalyse it live, but just “taking a chill pill” will help you a lot.



Are you against going to bars/having a drink? The later night and alcohol can also be helpful, sexier vibe.

 

[Yggdrasil13]

Honestly man, I think you may be too analytical about all this. That is very helpful in the taking photos stage, but not very helpful in the going on dates part. A date is not really a puzzle to be solved or a code to be cracked. Girl’s usually want a genuine connection with you before banging you and you can’t forge one by being completely superficial, unsurprisingly. Ofc just doing what comes naturally probably won’t work for you either. You’re too inhibited/sex driven. That’s the catch-22. I was the same way when I first started going on loads of online dates and I’ll tell you what helped me.

Firstly focus on making a few broad changes, that’s all you’ll have the mental bandwidth to do because conversing with the girl is going to take most of your attention. I’m talking attitudes, not specific actions. I’ll tell you the ideas that helped me.

1. Drill it into your head that you’re meeting a potential lover, not a friend. And that you’re the man and she’s the woman. Neither of you are there to have a conversation like friends do. You’re leading and she’s following.

2. Talk about yourself as little as possible. This was really mind blowing for me, but I swear it’s true. The things you have in common with her, your legitimate accomplishments, your hobbies, etc. talk as little as possible about it in the very very very beginning. Instead, get her talking about herself, and really listen to what she says and use that to learn even more about her. Do NOT be afraid of controversial topics (within reason ofc.) Try to really learn things about her, not just the superficial small talk everybody has. And be genuinely interested in what she says. Listen attentively. The conclusion I’ve come to is that girls fall in love with you by telling you about themselves, not by hearing about you. Guys who want to bang her or a dime a dozen, but how many are genuinely interested in learning about her? Not many. If she asks you a question about yourself, be as brief as possible and flip it back on her. Seriously, if you start doing a lot of talking on the date, you’re losing. Anecdote, one girl actually told me “you’re so interesting” when all she had done was talk about herself for an hour and a half lol. We banged. And after that I told her all about myself and she was super interested to learn about me. Nonetheless, I learned about her first.

3. Be playful and tease her. You could lump this under point 1 tbh. But don’t take her and the date so seriously. Teasing her really takes things from a friends level to a lovers level and it makes things fun and exciting. Whereas being super serious is sexually inert and boring. It’s hard to tell you how exactly to tease someone, but honestly for me the thoughts were already there and it was just a matter of relaxing and saying them. Teases should come somewhat naturally, don’t try and force it. But when a risky thought comes to mind, let it out. There’s probably some platonic friend or family member you already tease, don’t be afraid to assume that kind of familiarity (again, she’s your potential lover.)

4. An extremely small amount of physical touch. Seriously, it doesn’t take much. Touch her hand once or twice for some contrived reason. That’s it.

If things go right (and they won’t every time), you’ll be able to feel the connection. Then just ask her back to your place and she’ll readily comply with your escalation/want to see you again.

Take it with a grain of salt, this is just what helped me. In my experience, a mid conversation and mild connection actually will get girls to back to your place and awkwardly kiss you, but it won’t get them into bed, and it won’t make them want to see you again. It’s extremely confusing behavior.

 

[G.N]

Date felt so much like an exchange of info. I’m only engaging her logical side and not her emotional side.

Really I should be asking about her past relationships early on in the date. Like right after basic introductions and what we each do for fun.

Conversations need to serve a purpose. I need to lead them towards getting her more compliant. The only conversation bit I thought I did good on was the thing about the sweet tooth. I figure if I work in more lines an vibes like that I can get her more compliant.

Again, this still seems alright! Like you went out with her, knew she had 8pm appointment, and still managed to hold her hand and kiss her at the end.

On the convo - I know a lot of folk are very “must be sexual man/woman convo” but I never bother. Like sometimes if a woman brings it up I’ll ask about any relationships stories, but tbh I never try to, been on of most of my dates without talking about it. Just kinda chat about mutual interests/experiences while occasionally teasing them and occasional touch. It is occasional though- I absolutely love girls who can banter back and forth with me, but even so 80% of the time we’re just chatting typical interesting life stories etc and not being funny, just gradually get more touchy etc.

Like I’d totally spend 30 minutes talking with a girl about baking if she was into it, for example, and in that time I’d know a lot about her and vice versa, childhood memories baking, how I used to steal my grandmothers biscuits but share them with my sister, naughtiest thing she did as a kid, how my ex was a pastry chef, if you’ve ever done body shots. Etc etc - point is don’t stress the topic too much, just relax and enjoy - you’re obviously a smart guy so you want to overanalyse it live, but just “taking a chill pill” will help you a lot.



Are you against going to bars/having a drink? The later night and alcohol can also be helpful, sexier vibe.

I’m not necessarily saying I need to be sexual. I just want to be more flirty and interesting and make her comfortable being feminine for me.

I mainly just ask about relationships because it makes it clearer it’s a date and helps me gauge what she would be down for. Like if she’s only been in LTRs and isn’t interested in anything else then I’ll have to work using that info. This kind of info serves a purpose and allows me to gauge how compliant I can get her to be.

I’m not bugging about my conversation topics at all I just think my failure was that I didn’t calibrate many teases and the way she talked to me seemed like she enjoyed talking to me but she didn’t feel like really enthusiastic to talk to me or whatever. Like the sweet tooth thing was good, if I did more stuff like that with when she talked about traveling. Hell actually if I did it with when she talked about her interest in philosophy that would’ve been a massive boost for me.

There aren’t any bars close to my place. Only this coffee shop and a boba shop. If I get a new place in the future with a nice bar nearby I’d do that instead. But also consider this girl was 20.

 

[Holden]

Again, this still seems alright! Like you went out with her, knew she had 8pm appointment, and still managed to hold her hand and kiss her at the end.

On the convo - I know a lot of folk are very “must be sexual man/woman convo” but I never bother. Like sometimes if a woman brings it up I’ll ask about any relationships stories, but tbh I never try to, been on of most of my dates without talking about it. Just kinda chat about mutual interests/experiences while occasionally teasing them and occasional touch. It is occasional though- I absolutely love girls who can banter back and forth with me, but even so 80% of the time we’re just chatting typical interesting life stories etc and not being funny, just gradually get more touchy etc.

Like I’d totally spend 30 minutes talking with a girl about baking if she was into it, for example, and in that time I’d know a lot about her and vice versa, childhood memories baking, how I used to steal my grandmothers biscuits but share them with my sister, naughtiest thing she did as a kid, how my ex was a pastry chef, if you’ve ever done body shots. Etc etc - point is don’t stress the topic too much, just relax and enjoy - you’re obviously a smart guy so you want to overanalyse it live, but just “taking a chill pill” will help you a lot.

I don't disagree with this advice but the thing is, if you know how to build sexual tension you can talk about accounting and gardening and make it sound exciting.

Most people though need the crutch of a subject that is engaging/polarizing in itself.

That's why the (correct) newbie advice is to avoid politics, religion, etc.

And it's also why most newbies do well to stick to topics with some inherent sexualizing/polarizing value: travel, adventures, times you broke the law/the rules, past sexual experiences. Even if you deliver your stories here in the driest way possible, the girl is still getting stimulated due to the subject matter.

If you're a master of eye contact, tonality, imaginative language... You can talk about your My Little Pony figurine collection and she'll get wet. But most people are very far from that level.

Your baking example illustrates my point: most logical guys wouldn't go from "baking" to exciting stories like stealing cookies from grandma... They'll stick with the technics of baking, recipes, whatever. Not exciting stuff like stealing things (yes even if it's framed as wholesome childhood antics, breaking the rules is always an attractive trait)

Going from a boring subject like baking and turning into those exciting stories, that's actually a skillset that's far beyond what most newbies (and indeed, people in general) are capable of.

 

[G.N]

Honestly man, I think you may be too analytical about all this. That is very helpful in the taking photos stage, but not very helpful in the going on dates part. A date is not really a puzzle to be solved or a code to be cracked. Girl’s usually want a genuine connection with you before banging you and you can’t forge one by being completely superficial, unsurprisingly. Ofc just doing what comes naturally probably won’t work for you either. You’re too inhibited/sex driven. That’s the catch-22. I was the same way when I first started going on loads of online dates and I’ll tell you what helped me.

Firstly focus on making a few broad changes, that’s all you’ll have the mental bandwidth to do because conversing with the girl is going to take most of your attention. I’m talking attitudes, not specific actions. I’ll tell you the ideas that helped me.

1. Drill it into your head that you’re meeting a potential lover, not a friend. And that you’re the man and she’s the woman. Neither of you are there to have a conversation like friends do. You’re leading and she’s following.

2. Talk about yourself as little as possible. This was really mind blowing for me, but I swear it’s true. The things you have in common with her, your legitimate accomplishments, your hobbies, etc. talk as little as possible about it in the very very very beginning. Instead, get her talking about herself, and really listen to what she says and use that to learn even more about her. Do NOT be afraid of controversial topics (within reason ofc.) Try to really learn things about her, not just the superficial small talk everybody has. And be genuinely interested in what she says. Listen attentively. The conclusion I’ve come to is that girls fall in love with you by telling you about themselves, not by hearing about you. Guys who want to bang her or a dime a dozen, but how many are genuinely interested in learning about her? Not many. If she asks you a question about yourself, be as brief as possible and flip it back on her. Seriously, if you start doing a lot of talking on the date, you’re losing. Anecdote, one girl actually told me “you’re so interesting” when all she had done was talk about herself for an hour and a half lol. We banged. And after that I told her all about myself and she was super interested to learn about me. Nonetheless, I learned about her first.

3. Be playful and tease her. You could lump this under point 1 tbh. But don’t take her and the date so seriously. Teasing her really takes things from a friends level to a lovers level and it makes things fun and exciting. Whereas being super serious is sexually inert and boring. It’s hard to tell you how exactly to tease someone, but honestly for me the thoughts were already there and it was just a matter of relaxing and saying them. Teases should come somewhat naturally, don’t try and force it. But when a risky thought comes to mind, let it out. There’s probably some platonic friend or family member you already tease, don’t be afraid to assume that kind of familiarity (again, she’s your potential lover.)

4. An extremely small amount of physical touch. Seriously, it doesn’t take much. Touch her hand once or twice for some contrived reason. That’s it.

If things go right (and they won’t every time), you’ll be able to feel the connection. Then just ask her back to your place and she’ll readily comply with your escalation/want to see you again.

Take it with a grain of salt, this is just what helped me. In my experience, a mid conversation and mild connection actually will get girls to back to your place and awkwardly kiss you, but it won’t get them into bed, and it won’t make them want to see you again. It’s extremely confusing behavior.

1. This should be my default mindset. I think I go in with a "hope she is cool and I can fuck her" mindset. Might not be a good idea. Ill do your think. I remember Andy in one of his videos said to say to yourself about the chick "I want you" and repeat it over and over again. Dunno if that actually works but I think I am just tryna phrase your advice in a way that is easy for me to understand.

2. I can generally get a girl to talk a lot about herself but I definitely still have that issue where I talk way too much. I am getting better at talking less as I don't want to bore the girl too much. Flipping it back on her is easy, usually can be done with asking a more specific question about her. Example was this brunette she asked me what classes I am taking and I said my bit. The I asked about hers and she brought up philosophy so I asked which ones work she found more interesting. I also definitely have the issue of zoning out sometimes during dates so that should be something I work on.

3. True. I shouldn't take the date so incredibly seriously. If I can convince myself that this is fun it should be much easier. If anything being too serious and boring will turn a super yes girl into a maybe or no girl.

4. Ok yeah I can keep the physical touch low.

 

[G.N]

2/26

Daily Actions:

->Weekly Gym: 0/3
->Today's Calories: 1972 cal
->Today's Sugar intake: 86g
->Today's Protein Intake: 131g

Notes:

Haven't posted a progress entry in a while because I kept falling in and out of not caring about my diet and I have been binge eating more than I should be. I just keep thinking about food nonstop. I was at a party on Friday and ate like 6 slices of pizza and some cookies. Somehow I did not feel sick despite not being insanely hungry. I usually tap out after like 3, maybe 4 if I am really hungry. I realized my six week "1800" cut had ended. Cuts like those aren't sustainable longterm, I still think I need to lose more bodyfat though but I don't want to binge again so I dialed it back to trying my hardest to just stay under 2000 which is more "normal" for the average person and didn't feel all that difficult to stay in today. My maintenance calories now are like 2350-2400 so I am still in a solid deficit.

Anyways I attempted to finish the hard reset yesterday. The week before I backed up my phone to my computer, deleted the keychain file. Then I reset my phone, re-backed it up with the deleted keychain and got back into all my accounts. I purchased some phone numbers from DatingZest to use for my reset.

Yesterday I headed to a Starbucks about 5 miles away from my apartment and logged into the Starbucks wifi on my computer. I stayed on data plan for my phone. I picked up a temporary email address from a temp mail site and used it to make a new apple ID. I used the same phone number for my apple ID but from my research that doesn't tip off Hinge/Tinder, or at least from Loki's guide its fine to do so. Anyways I made the new apple ID. I agreed to Terms or whatever bullshit Apple wanted from me. I redownloaded both Hinge and Tinder. I opened each app, punched in a datingzest number, got the SMS and was able to make new accounts. For pictures I didn't want to tip off the system or any potential image recognition software so I used some decent unused outtakes from previous self-done photoshoots. I erased the metadata beforehand just in case. So far I was fine. Setting up Hinge was very smooth. Tinder was not as smooth.

I think it was my neuroticism and not thinking straight that caused me to fuck up here. So it gave me the popup that I need to enable my location. But I thought I would need to work around that too and if I enabled it I would get sniped. I clicked on the "allow once" option since at the time my frazzled brain thought it made sense until I found a workaround. Only issue was though every time I reopened the app I would have to do that shit again. I just went back to my apartment cuz i had some work I needed to do.

After that I decided to go about a mile out from my place and enable location there. But before I could do this I got like four verification puzzle popups from Tinder. I think they saw this location bs shit I was doing and was thinking I was a bot. I did the puzzles, then got a mile out and enabled location. I think I was still on my data but maybe I connected to wifi. I think I was on data but right after enabling I saw a faint wifi signal popup. I turned on wifi cuz I wasn't getting any connection at first.

App started finally working normal. I was paranoid the puzzles meant a shadowban but I noticed I got a like so I thought I was clear.

Nope, banned again.

I feel quite defeated. I honestly am hoping it was just this wifi slip up that was why I got banned and not some other shit that I cannot control. I am fucking sick of these apps, this is just horrible business practices. I pray on Match Groups downfall every single fucking day, their employees are worthless sacks of piss and shit. Shit feels so fucking bleak right now. I was finally beginning to see potential success from the apps and my primary source of dates is cut off now.

I read on r/SwipeHelper that filing a complaint with the BBB has potential to work. That and being very persistent. Only issue now though is if that girl who reported me wrote some detailed message it will be hard to counter it. If she said nothing I can lie out my ass and say she is just revenge reporting me or just being salty. A lot of people probably will tell me though its not gonna work but I would at least like to try and get my OG account back cuz even when I reset Ill be walking on eggshells to avoid getting banned again.

Ill try this week to write a good email to the BBB pleading my case. If my persistence over the next week or two gets me absolutely nothing I will just have to try again with the Hard Reset. Could just do it again this weekend in a diff location. Or I can wait till I go see my family during spring break in california and just reattempt there.

 

[Squilliam]

You need a new device. They track IMEI.

If you need any help with getting back on, if you wanna shoot me a message with your telegram info, I can try to help you out.

 

[MisterE]

You need a new device. They track IMEI.

Apps can't track your IMEI or any other identifiers where you can uniquely track users with.

If I interpret Apple's developers documentation correctly, identifierForVendor (the property apps can use to uniquely track devices with) changes after deleting all the apps from that same vendor (the company that publishes the app) from a device and then re-installing them.

It is highly likely that your IP-address is what triggered their system. From a software developers point of view, that is the only value you can easily retrieve and uniquely identify user's with, because Apple simply does not have control over the network an app uses to connect to a server with. That and your photos. But you can easily misguide their assumed use of their image hashing algorithm by cropping them a bit differently/adding pixels and removing metadata.

They could use location coordinates to uniquely identify users, but I assume that is highly unlikely because that would trigger a lot of false positives if you would use the app in a place like New York.

GN44, try it again and be aware of your Wifi usage this time. I know Android has an option where you can force specific apps to only use your cellphone data, so check if Apple also has that option.

Try to avoid a service like Datingzest. You simply would not know if those numbers already have been used by someone else. I do not live in the US, so I don't know how easily you could get a prepaid sim. I would advice just getting one instead of using a service like that. I would think buying a new prepaid sim (you need no data for it) would be cheaper. However, I'm not from the US, so I'm not sure.

Also, create a new Gmail instead of using a temporarily e-mail when creating a new Tinder account. Those domains from the temporarily e-mail site may be blacklisted as well.

 

[loki]

stuff

I've put a lot of effort into reading the documentation. they use the on-device keychain (separate from the cloud Keychain that's visible to users). you can only remove the data in it if your phone is jailbroken, factory reset, or (the method I've used to ban evade) by editing the keychain file out of an encrypted backup of your phone and then restoring from that, which is somewhat of a technically involved process

 

[loki]

If I interpret Apple's developers documentation correctly, identifierForVendor (the property apps can use to uniquely track devices with) changes after deleting all the apps from that same vendor (the company that publishes the app) from a device and then re-installing them.

Also the subscriberID from the app store is still visible for 6 months after your last install of the app or subscription from it, can't remember which, so they might not know it's your exact same device but they can know it's YOU. this is thankfully easier to change by using another app store account to download tinder and hinge with

 

[MisterE]

Also the subscriberID from the app store is still visible for 6 months after your last install of the app or subscription from it, can't remember which, so they might not know it's your exact same device but they can know it's YOU. this is thankfully easier to change by using another app store account to download tinder and hinge with

I was not aware of a subscriberID being connected to the Apple ID. I'm not that familiar with Apple's eco-system, but that explains why they always mention to use a different Apple ID when doing a hard reset.

Anyway, the point of my original post was to explain why a complete new phone is unnecessary. A new phone will not fix the problem if you are going to make the same mistakes again.

 

[Squilliam]

Apps can't track your IMEI or any other identifiers where you can uniquely track users with.

If I interpret Apple's developers documentation correctly, identifierForVendor (the property apps can use to uniquely track devices with) changes after deleting all the apps from that same vendor (the company that publishes the app) from a device and then re-installing them.

It is highly likely that your IP-address is what triggered their system. From a software developers point of view, that is the only value you can easily retrieve and uniquely identify user's with, because Apple simply does not have control over the network an app uses to connect to a server with. That and your photos. But you can easily misguide their assumed use of their image hashing algorithm by cropping them a bit differently/adding pixels and removing metadata.

They could use location coordinates to uniquely identify users, but I assume that is highly unlikely because that would trigger a lot of false positives if you would use the app in a place like New York.

@GN44, try it again and be aware of your Wifi usage this time. I know Android has an option where you can force specific apps to only use your cellphone data, so check if Apple also has that option.

Try to avoid a service like Datingzest. You simply would not know if those numbers already have been used by someone else. I do not live in the US, so I don't know how easily you could get a prepaid sim. I would advice just getting one instead of using a service like that. I would think buying a new prepaid sim (you need no data for it) would be cheaper. However, I'm not from the US, so I'm not sure.

Also, create a new Gmail instead of using a temporarily e-mail when creating a new Tinder account. Those domains from the temporarily e-mail site may be blacklisted as well.

I stand corrected. But I'm pretty sure they have SOME way of tracking your device uniquely. I'm not sure that wifi is the reason. It would also cause a lot of false positives, like on university wifi for example.

There's also some evidence that they use image hashing algorithms to detect photos. Nobody knows how sensitive these algorithms are, although I'm pretty sure algorithms like pHash can easily disregard the difference if you add a pixel or something.

Facial recognition is most likely not used, as long as you don't try verifying. The laws surrounding the collection of biometric data are strict and it would require mass collusion in order to make that happen. It's possible but extremely unlikely.