Jamgoth's New Progress log - actually striking up the balls to talk to women

[Jamgoth]

Went to a bar where I'm a regular. I was told last time I was here I made people uncomfortable. Which confuses me because it's not like I touch people or make lewd comments. Even when drunk. I back off when told no.

I haven't been kicked out but I feel unwelcome. Probably not going to come back to this place after tonight. This makes me not want to go out.

I'm doing something wrong but I don't know what

I'm trying not to fall into a blackpill incel "nothing I do works" mindset, but this makes me want to be more cautious when approaching women at nightlife, which I'm already pretty cautious about doing because of AA. If I got feedback about what exactly I did wrong that would be a different story, but I don't know how I'm supposed to learn from this

Probably going to take tonight off to let my ego heal then go back tomorrow

 

[pancakemouse]

Vibe is learned by modeling other high status guys. It's not really possible to learn by reading or over the internet. Do you have any wingmen in your city you can go out with and have them observe you and point out what you could improve?

 

[Jamgoth]

Vibe is learned by modeling other high status guys. It's not really possible to learn by reading or over the internet. Do you have any wingmen in your city you can go out with and have them observe you and point out what you could improve?

I found a group online. One guy hosts parties but I haven't had a chance to see anyone hit on any of the girls there.

There was another one that was specifically a group of guys who went out specifically to practice hitting on women, but they've only met once and I lost track of him in the crowd.

I tried asking him for advice and he'd said he'd get back to me but hasnt

 

[Jamgoth]

Went to a nightclub with a friend of mine from university. We weren't really trying to hit on girls, just talk to people, have a fun night. One of the girls told my friend that she didn't like my edgy sense of humor, which is good feedback that I would not have picked up on if I went alone.

Went to a pool party and went Skydiving. Got decent pictures to put on my Instagram. I still don't think I'm attractive enough for OLD but at least In starting to cultivate an online image that I'm a cool guy and not some awkward nerd who paints Warhammer all day. (I used to do that lol)

Like I said, they aren't great photos but part of my issue with online dating previously is that, people told me I came off like a meek loner, which this is trying to resolve. I'm not fit enough to get away with shirtless photos (yet!) but at least I have a pic of me being social with cool looking people.

Also, game aside, skydiving is amazing and you should absolutely do it immediately if you have the spare time/money.

 

[Juicy3lf]

You seem to be doing well for being this social. You probably shouldn't take my advice from me, but it looks like there is a pattern of self sabotage. The girl you tried to kiss might have still wanted to kiss you later on if you made like it was nothing. you seem to neg yourself out of the pursuit even before she has actually said no. Make her say no (and be persistent). For Marketing Girl, she was DTF and you waited too long/hesitated - kissing her early would have been the right move there. But the momentum is strong.

More experienced guys please let me know if I'm far off.

 

[Jamgoth]

You seem to be doing well for being this social. You probably shouldn't take my advice from me, but it looks like there is a pattern of self sabotage. The girl you tried to kiss might have still wanted to kiss you later on if you made like it was nothing. you seem to neg yourself out of the pursuit even before she has actually said no. Make her say no (and be persistent). For Marketing Girl, she was DTF and you waited too long/hesitated - kissing her early would have been the right move there. But the momentum is strong.

More experienced guys please let me know if I'm far off.

Keep in mind I'm overcoming deep seated issues of self hatred that I've harbored for years. I'm timid with women because I don't want to come off as a creep. For a long time, I never attempted to flirt with or hit on or approach women because I wanted them to be comfortable and not think I'm a creep. I've been told I've come across as a creep to women I'm not even interested in, women that I just wanted to be friends with, which doesn't help.

There was that incident with Abi where I definitely blew my chance with a girl I really liked, and a girl who was hitting on me hard, by not making my move. This was a year ago and it still hurts. So for a time I would over correct, aggressively hitting on women that weren't interested and making a complete ass of myself in the process. I lost a couple of my guy friends and platonic girl friends because I was so socially uncalibrated when it came to flirting. I'm trying to find the balance by just sheer social exposure and not having a concrete game plan or understanding of pick up theory.

Also with marketing girl, she was flirting with me hard when we met at that house party, and I was able to hold that sexual energy. I got shit tested for the first time ever, and did a decent job of passing the shit tests. We did get a date, but I guess I was having an off day and couldn't find an opportunity to be flirty. She just blathered on about topics that bored me and I couldn't find a way to playfully tease or flirt with her. I also spoke to a mutual friend who also went on a date with her a few days later, but didn't pull, and he's just like "Don't sweat it, I've known her for years, she's just flaky"

So yeah, I've missed my mark, in both directions (making a move when she's not interested and not making a move when she is) part of the experiment I'm doing this summer is to try to understand these signals better.

 

[Squilliam]

I've been told I've come across as a creep to women I'm not even interested in, women that I just wanted to be friends with, which doesn't help.

Unfortunately, the word "creepy" is way overused. Many women will claim that "creepy" is only used to describe objectively bad actions, like persisting too hard, sexual harassment, etc, but I feel like creepy is often just used to describe a guy they're not attracted to who is autistic/socially awkward.

 

[Jamgoth]

I've been told I've come across as a creep to women I'm not even interested in, women that I just wanted to be friends with, which doesn't help.

Unfortunately, the word "creepy" is way overused. Many women will claim that "creepy" is only used to describe objectively bad actions, like persisting too hard, sexual harassment, etc, but I feel like creepy is often just used to describe a guy they're not attracted to who is autistic/socially awkward.

I can't cure my autism unfortunately

 

[Squilliam]

I can't cure my autism unfortunately

This is a loser's mindset.

You might not be able to cure your autism, but you can improve your social skills and the way you come across to women.

Pretty sure they have done studies which show that autism is basically not perceptible in individuals who have worked on it enough. Well, assuming it's high functioning autism, which seems to be the case here.

I have the same problem. There are literally girls that are clearly into me when I approach them, will even stop, but then end up weirded out by the end because my vibe and way I come across to them is just so awkward and off. I can't even blame them. I've never been called a creep but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls characterized me that way.

I second what Pancake said about going out and finding a wing who can give you feedback.

This shit is hard indeed. You do get judged. You are forced to confront some of your deepest issues, some of which you've probably been running from for decades at this point.

But ultimately, you can say the exact same thing to two different girls and get two very different responses. So don't focus on trying to get every girl to like you. Rather, just focus on trying your best and improving your social skills, really playing the numbers game is more important than anything else IMO.

 

[Jamgoth]

I can't cure my autism unfortunately

This is a loser's mindset.

Yeah I'm aware, and I'm trying to break myself out of it

 

[Jamgoth]

I start my masters program soon. I wasn't able to pull this summer, or even make out, but I did get practice being social at parties outside my house, and I did get a date and a couple numbers, and put on a couple lbs of muscle, so hopefully the summer wasn't completely wasted. I know these may not be impressive to many of you but I'm trying to use small wins as motivation to move forward rather than get discouraged and give up.

I keep hearing about how college is the easiest environment for game, but obviously I only managed with one girl during my entire undergrad. So I want to ask, what should I do differently at my new college to make the most of my time here

 

[Adrizzle]

Man ya doing p good. Give your yourself some credit. I joined Andy’s coaching program and that finally got me to take action.

As always

Give yourself permission to suck
Take Action
Don’t quit

Just talk to everyone

 

[pancakemouse]

I start my masters program soon. I wasn't able to pull this summer, or even make out, but I did get practice being social at parties outside my house, and I did get a date and a couple numbers, and put on a couple lbs of muscle, so hopefully the summer wasn't completely wasted. I know these may not be impressive to many of you but I'm trying to use small wins as motivation to move forward rather than get discouraged and give up.

I keep hearing about how college is the easiest environment for game, but obviously I only managed with one girl during my entire undergrad. So I want to ask, what should I do differently at my new college to make the most of my time here

A Master's program is just like any other type of social circle: activity, work, etc.

People will hang out, cliques will form, there will be a status hierarchy like any other.

Your job is to carve out a spot in this status hierarchy and then game girls discreetly.

 

[komeback_kile]

I know these may not be impressive to many of you

Suboptimal framing dude. It doesn't matter what we think -- you're here for yourself. Like Adrizzle said, give yourself some credit. You're doing good. You're improving. You're getting ballz to try and fail. That takes more guts than most people will ever even try. Don't stop

what should I do differently at my new college to make the most of my time here

This is very open-ended, but I have a simple answer: Do what you're doing now AND take even more risks.

Socialize more. Meet more people. Talk to more women. Don't be afraid to tell them they're cute. Meet some bros. Workout hard. Hustle, try, fail, learn, and improve. Don't let fear hold you back. You'll figure out your path more as you keep trying... but if you don't try, then you will continue to feel lost or unsure of what you want next

All the best

 

[Jamgoth]

Your job is to carve out a spot in this status hierarchy

Traditionally I've always been at the low end of this social hierarchy. How do I avoid this

 

[pancakemouse]

Your job is to carve out a spot in this status hierarchy

Traditionally I've always been at the low end of this social hierarchy. How do I avoid this

Many of your questions are sufficiently generic such that they yield answers like this:

Break it down into parts.

Research what makes someone high status. There are even a couple of infoproducts on "social sircle game". Go out, practice, implement.

Concretely, I remember this book having a few decent tidbits: https://lioncrest.com/books/higher-status-jason-capital/

 

[Jamgoth]

Alright, spent the last week moving from DC to new haven, took a couple days to move, get settled in etc.

Spent the days walking around trying to learn cold approach. As New Haven is a much smaller city than DC, it also means there's much less to do and fewer approach opportunities. I did see a couple people I could have approached but with my approach anxiety I couldn't bring myself too. My approach anxiety almost seems worse now than a couple months ago. Today there was one decently cute college aged girl who returned my smile as I smiled at her but I couldn't bring up the courage to say anything. I did ask a couple women who live in my dorm apartment building for their number but I got the "I have a boyfriend" line both times. Who knows if it's true or not. I find approaching easier at bars and nightclubs because in those environments you are expected to socialize but you can't really go to a bar at 3 pm on a Monday and hope to meet a lot of people. And the semester hasn't started yet so all the college bars are kinda empty right now anyway. I'll probably go out later today after dinner

On a side note I really think I need to tone down the accessories. I got a ton of them over the past year (multiple chains some with skulls and other edgy orniments, multiple leather bracelets, rings, multiple piercings, tattoos, studded belt, ripped jeans, mallen streak). I got them because I was sick of looking like some meek niceguy loner, I wanted to look dangerous (in a good way). I definitely don't think I look like some computer nerd anymore, but all the leather and chains just makes me look goth, not like a bad boy. On one hand being goth is a recognizable archetype, but unless I'm in a situation where I plan to meet a lot of goth girls, I don't need this much to look edgy. I remember the alternate girl I approached over the summer, she was super receptive to me without me having any clue what game even was, she also had a lot of tattoos and piercings and colored hair and we met in a punk rock themed bar, but for girls who don't look like that the 2000s emo vibe is probably a turn off. One chain plus the piercings and tattoos I already have is probably enough. In terms of looksmaxxing the main thing I have left to do is put on lean muscle mass, which I am working on.

Also, I got a really nice tattoo on my chest recently. It's a lot nicer than my arrow tattoo, but also isn't visible to women until I take my shirt off.

 

[Rice]

I find approaching easier at bars and nightclubs because in those environments you are expected to socialize but you can't really go to a bar at 3 pm on a Monday and hope to meet a lot of people. And the semester hasn't started yet so all the college bars are kinda empty right now anyway. I'll probably go out later today after dinner

I felt the same way and what helped was meeting a bunch of guys who cold approach during the day. Especially if the guy is actually decent so that girls will smile warmly at him when he opens, even if she was resting bitch face a few seconds ago. Over time it now feels weird to not be approaching during the day.

 

[Jamgoth]

I find approaching easier at bars and nightclubs because in those environments you are expected to socialize but you can't really go to a bar at 3 pm on a Monday and hope to meet a lot of people. And the semester hasn't started yet so all the college bars are kinda empty right now anyway. I'll probably go out later today after dinner

I felt the same way and what helped was meeting a bunch of guys who cold approach during the day. Especially if the guy is actually decent so that girls will smile warmly at him when he opens, even if she was resting bitch face a few seconds ago. Over time it now feels weird to not be approaching during the day.

That sounds like exactly what I need unfortunately I don't think any experienced wings are hanging out in New Haven. Or Connecticut in general.

 

[pancakemouse]

Saw your comment about having an "alt" archetype on Squilliam's log but didn't want to clutter his up so I wanted to comment on something here that I've been discussing with him as well.

It's not enough to have a non-mainstream archetype, you need to actually have one that's societally-relevant.

The problem with your current look is that it's dated. You look like a nu-metal singer from 2003. Is it better than being a normie invisible incel? Sure. But girls look at this and roll their eyes.

Your archetype and specific looks needs to have at LEAST five TikTok/Instagram profiles that you can find of guys that look the exact same way you do that are lusted after by young attractive women.

The other problem is that New Haven isn't exactly known for its alternative demographic. Between Yale and Quinnipiac you have a predominantly white, basic student population.

My advice would be to meet as many women as possible, observe their archetypes, and figure out what guys they are lusting after, then be that.

If you ever make it down to NYC, let us know and I can give you the rundown.