[Noobie] Terrible stats at cold approach

[W G]

I'm having a hard time having dates from cold approach. I finished half the AA program back in September (I was able to hit on girls already) and since then I been doing approaches on my daily life + once a week at the mall for 2 hours. It's been around somewhere around 200-300 approaches since then and gotten about 35 phone numbers.
From those 35 numbers I had 3 flakes and been on 3 different dates. Sadly they all saw me as boyfriend material, two of the girls were extremely inexperienced and one was a single mom.

The problem now is every time I go out I'm scared to increase this approach number since I been looking at numbers from other guys saying each 10 approaches:1 lay ratio, it just kills my confidence and makes me scared that no one will like me, I already talked to a lot of chicks and I just see no results, have some other friends from my area that have sex without even trying and I genuinely look better, I'm taller and have a better style. I gotta admit I'm a little anxious/awkward at talking plus English isn't my first language. I read Andy's post about helpless and hopeless, it really did helped me and motivated me to go to a near campus. Got 5 numbers within 11 approaches, however only 1 has replied back and today I'm totally devastated from this results. It's hard to keep my mind thinking into other things and can't really study for my courses.

Looking at the bright side I do feel about 80% more masculine since I first started this journey and see only positive results in other areas of my life.
I did open my Pandora box when doing this, a lot of shit about insecurities and belief did came from my repressed mind, which I'm working on now.

Thanks in advance

 

[roykingatx]

Yo dude. I'm familiar with some of these feelings. Especially getting numbers but them not going on dates with me, thinking about it so much that it keeps me from doing other stuff, and comparing myself to others and wondering why its harder for me compared to them.

I think all there is to do is to keep doing the work and continuing to look for ways to improve or get better and then at the same time letting the focus on results go (admittedly easier said than done).

The whole thing does bleed into other areas of life though, which I love. I've definitely noticed so many other areas of life improve from working on this aspect of my life even if in this part of it the only results I've seen 1 year in area seeing a girl casually for 6 months and feeling more comfortable approaching and getting numbers.

You seem tall and you're young just keep pushing.

 

[AskTheDom]

Ok so there is a lot to unpack here
Let's go POINT BY POINT but first of all there is an important question:

Who are you?( and I intend this as what is your SMV - did you get girls before dg on consistent frequency?) where do you approach? (city, country)

I been doing approaches on my daily life + once a week at the mall for 2 hours. It's been around somewhere around 200-300 approaches since then and gotten about 35 phone numbers.

it's 200 or 300 approaches? because if you get 35 out of 200 it's 1 in 6 which is intermediate level, I would say very good but still. 200-300 approaches is N O T H I N G.
There is a reason why it's called the "thousand sets of hell" because the first one thousand sets are bad and needed just to learn everything (assuming a lot of things aren't going your way like looks, charisma, etc)

From those 35 numbers I had 3 flakes and been on 3 different dates. Sadly they all saw me as boyfriend material, two of the girls were extremely inexperienced and one was a single mom.

too much of a small sample size to make any judgement...and what's wrong with a single mum? if she is hot af?

The problem now is every time I go out I'm scared to increase this approach number since I been looking at numbers from other guys saying each 10 approaches:1 lay ratio, it just kills my confidence and makes me scared that no one will like me

First of all, I absolutely guarantee you, and I've met every REAL serious day gamer out there, NOBODY has 1 in 10. That's an american legend that started to go out there to "make dg look better" while in reality the Elite sits at a 3%.
1 lay from 30 approaches (assuming you have an average SMV) it's fucking good - I know people that had to approach 500 times before getting laid and then started to getting laid every 50-60 approaches but having a fuck ton of fun in the process.

Your mindset needs fixing for sure, that's why the 1000's set of hell are there to make you fight your demons

 

[loki]

Hey, this is really relatable since I also "should" be succeeding more than I am for my given level of looks

(spoiler alert: being normal and having good social skills matters a lot)

It's been around somewhere around 200-300 approaches since then and gotten about 35 phone numbers.
From those 35 numbers I had 3 flakes and been on 3 different dates

Nothing unusual about this. The first XXX approaches tend to have rough edges to them that get smoothed out over time

Sadly they all saw me as boyfriend material, two of the girls were extremely inexperienced and one was a single mom.

there isnt really such a thing as boyfriend material imo. just means you failed to clear the smv threshold to fuck for whatever reason. or potentially they were interested but you failed to actually be forward and close it

The problem now is every time I go out I'm scared to increase this approach number

I had this same issue. It's caused by seeking validation in how good you are at converting girls from cold approach, instead of seeking sex and experiences. Validation seeking is a feedback loop because it makes you less attractive, which results in getting less validation, etc.

Here's what you need to decide:

Would you rather increase your "percentages", whatever you define them as, or increase the amount you actually get laid in a given amount of time?

Would you rather, given the same amount of time and effort, approach 10 girls and get laid with 10 of them, or approach 1000 girls and get laid with 11?

You have to be GOAL DRIVEN and care about sex and that's it. Girl fails to go along with the goal? She's literally not even in your head anymore, you're busy with the next approach. That's it.

The only reason to care about percentages and process related numbers is to the extent that there are issues to identify that you could fix. Otherwise, who cares?

Here's something else to think about:

There's guys out there who are better than us in every way. They're better looking, naturally socially skilled, have social status, all without trying. They get laid more than us and they could steal any of our girls. We'll never catch up to them no matter how hard we try. Is that gonna make you stop trying to have sex and work on your goals? What if you were in a world where you were bottom 1% SMV and could never catch up and had to try harder than anyone else to have sex? Would you stop?

Should other guys fucking matter at all? Instead of just what YOU want and how much effort you're willing to put in to get it?

but also

since I been looking at numbers from other guys saying each 10 approaches:1 lay ratio

nah, not happening, not without massaging the numbers by only going for girls who give IOIs in a warm approach venue and blah blah etc.

(just to calibrate - the best ACTUALLY trustworthy ratios I've heard of were ~1:20 and that's a natural guy with extremely, extremely high SMV who was ALSO taught game by an intermediate at it)

the guys with really good ratios are losing out on lays to get their ratios to be like that. you decide if you want the ratios or the lays

have some other friends from my area that have sex without even trying and I genuinely look better, I'm taller and have a better style

a lot of guys are just not trustworthy about their results.

aside from that, the following might be the case:

- they're getting these lays through some kind of social circle or venue where they have status. which overpowers everything else in smv
- they're more "normal" than you. the more autistic/"abnormal" you are, the more you lose out on lays despite being good looking

or maybe you just get worse results than them even though you "deserve" better because of your genetics. ok. refer to what I previously said about comparing to other guys and reward for effort

I read Andy's post about helpless and hopeless, it really did helped me and motivated me to go to a near campus. Got 5 numbers within 11 approaches, however only 1 has replied back and today I'm totally devastated from this results. It's hard to keep my mind thinking into other things and can't really study for my courses.

campus girls are notoriously flakey, everyone has this experience. it would help to know where you live

anyway, you need to find validation from something other than girls. identify what insecurities you have and fix them and get good at something objective.

you likely also have a low hanging fruit of improving your social skills and anxiety (and no, cold approaching girls and dating helps WAY less than doing actual social events - I have the 1.5k approaches and shit social skills to prove it)

---

but also you're doing well with getting to 300 and will definitely get results over time

 

[W G]

Ok so there is a lot to unpack here
Let's go POINT BY POINT but first of all there is an important question:

Who are you?( and I intend this as what is your SMV - did you get girls before dg on consistent frequency?) where do you approach? (city, country)

I been doing approaches on my daily life + once a week at the mall for 2 hours. It's been around somewhere around 200-300 approaches since then and gotten about 35 phone numbers.

it's 200 or 300 approaches? because if you get 35 out of 200 it's 1 in 6 which is intermediate level, I would say very good but still. 200-300 approaches is N O T H I N G.
There is a reason why it's called the "thousand sets of hell" because the first one thousand sets are bad and needed just to learn everything (assuming a lot of things aren't going your way like looks, charisma, etc)

From those 35 numbers I had 3 flakes and been on 3 different dates. Sadly they all saw me as boyfriend material, two of the girls were extremely inexperienced and one was a single mom.

too much of a small sample size to make any judgement...and what's wrong with a single mum? if she is hot af?

The problem now is every time I go out I'm scared to increase this approach number since I been looking at numbers from other guys saying each 10 approaches:1 lay ratio, it just kills my confidence and makes me scared that no one will like me

First of all, I absolutely guarantee you, and I've met every REAL serious day gamer out there, NOBODY has 1 in 10. That's an american legend that started to go out there to "make dg look better" while in reality the Elite sits at a 3%.
1 lay from 30 approaches (assuming you have an average SMV) it's fucking good - I know people that had to approach 500 times before getting laid and then started to getting laid every 50-60 approaches but having a fuck ton of fun in the process.

Your mindset needs fixing for sure, that's why the 1000's set of hell are there to make you fight your demons

Moved to the states about 2 years ago from Peru (South America) and I live in Fort Myers FL now. Getting laid was not a problem back home, was pretty successful without trying and in worst shape. So far I had sex with 3 different chicks/ex’s (about 15 times or so in total) from 2018-2019 back in home from social circles. Genuinely didn't have a problem in my sex life since my tinder was always blowing up 99+ likes and I had lots of options from multiple sources so didn't take it so seriously.
When I moved here is when I started realizing I had to do something about it since it was completely different. I have just a few friends here but to be honest they’re not close at all, I spend most of my time studying, gym, talking with my friends of my country online and working in delivery/hitting on girls while I have free time

My 200 approaches were in random places, gym, grocery stores, restaurants (I do food deliveries from time to time) but at least 150 of them were in a mall.
I didn't track my approaches but I estimate was around 200-300 or so, I started a google docs sheet to log it.

The single mom ... lol well she was thicc and young (30). I tried to get sexual with her in the second date and she wasn't having it, talk about it after the date via phone and expressed my intentions in having a casual but ongoing relationship but she wasn't down for it. I'm sure I would

I appreciate your comment, really makes me feel more relaxed about it. I will indeed fight my demons till the 1000 mark, a lot of the validation seeking is slowing this process and making some emotional nights but will eventually get the first dg laid.

I will start approaching on campus, just bring my backpack and pretend to be a student, I honestly belief it's way superior than any other place

 

[W G]

Hey, this is really relatable since I also "should" be succeeding more than I am for my given level of looks

(spoiler alert: being normal and having good social skills matters a lot)

It's been around somewhere around 200-300 approaches since then and gotten about 35 phone numbers.
From those 35 numbers I had 3 flakes and been on 3 different dates

Nothing unusual about this. The first XXX approaches tend to have rough edges to them that get smoothed out over time

Sadly they all saw me as boyfriend material, two of the girls were extremely inexperienced and one was a single mom.

there isnt really such a thing as boyfriend material imo. just means you failed to clear the smv threshold to fuck for whatever reason. or potentially they were interested but you failed to actually be forward and close it

The problem now is every time I go out I'm scared to increase this approach number

I had this same issue. It's caused by seeking validation in how good you are at converting girls from cold approach, instead of seeking sex and experiences. Validation seeking is a feedback loop because it makes you less attractive, which results in getting less validation, etc.

Here's what you need to decide:

Would you rather increase your "percentages", whatever you define them as, or increase the amount you actually get laid in a given amount of time?

Would you rather, given the same amount of time and effort, approach 10 girls and get laid with 10 of them, or approach 1000 girls and get laid with 11?

You have to be GOAL DRIVEN and care about sex and that's it. Girl fails to go along with the goal? She's literally not even in your head anymore, you're busy with the next approach. That's it.

The only reason to care about percentages and process related numbers is to the extent that there are issues to identify that you could fix. Otherwise, who cares?

Here's something else to think about:

There's guys out there who are better than us in every way. They're better looking, naturally socially skilled, have social status, all without trying. They get laid more than us and they could steal any of our girls. We'll never catch up to them no matter how hard we try. Is that gonna make you stop trying to have sex and work on your goals? What if you were in a world where you were bottom 1% SMV and could never catch up and had to try harder than anyone else to have sex? Would you stop?

Should other guys fucking matter at all? Instead of just what YOU want and how much effort you're willing to put in to get it?

but also

since I been looking at numbers from other guys saying each 10 approaches:1 lay ratio

nah, not happening, not without massaging the numbers by only going for girls who give IOIs in a warm approach venue and blah blah etc.

(just to calibrate - the best ACTUALLY trustworthy ratios I've heard of were ~1:20 and that's a natural guy with extremely, extremely high SMV who was ALSO taught game by an intermediate at it)

the guys with really good ratios are losing out on lays to get their ratios to be like that. you decide if you want the ratios or the lays

have some other friends from my area that have sex without even trying and I genuinely look better, I'm taller and have a better style

a lot of guys are just not trustworthy about their results.

aside from that, the following might be the case:

- they're getting these lays through some kind of social circle or venue where they have status. which overpowers everything else in smv
- they're more "normal" than you. the more autistic/"abnormal" you are, the more you lose out on lays despite being good looking

or maybe you just get worse results than them even though you "deserve" better because of your genetics. ok. refer to what I previously said about comparing to other guys and reward for effort

I read Andy's post about helpless and hopeless, it really did helped me and motivated me to go to a near campus. Got 5 numbers within 11 approaches, however only 1 has replied back and today I'm totally devastated from this results. It's hard to keep my mind thinking into other things and can't really study for my courses.

campus girls are notoriously flakey, everyone has this experience. it would help to know where you live

anyway, you need to find validation from something other than girls. identify what insecurities you have and fix them and get good at something objective.

you likely also have a low hanging fruit of improving your social skills and anxiety (and no, cold approaching girls and dating helps WAY less than doing actual social events - I have the 1.5k approaches and shit social skills to prove it)

---

but also you're doing well with getting to 300 and will definitely get results over time

Can definitely say that my demons and the validation seeking is holding me back. I appreciate the questions and statements you provided, I'm a great believer in CBT questions and interrogating yourself. It's somewhat overwhelming at first, makes you think there's something wrong with you, you know?
I will try to take rejections not personally, can say it's easier than it used to be.

 

[Sonofagun]

I'll take this piece-by-piece and share some insights with you since I'm out doing daygame regularly in Europe. I don't know how active most other guys here are.

I'm having a hard time having dates from cold approach. I finished half the AA program back in September (I was able to hit on girls already) and since then I been doing approaches on my daily life + once a week at the mall for 2 hours. It's been around somewhere around 200-300 approaches since then and gotten about 35 phone numbers.
From those 35 numbers I had 3 flakes and been on 3 different dates. Sadly they all saw me as boyfriend material, two of the girls were extremely inexperienced and one was a single mom.

The first thing to get clear is that daygame is hard by its very nature and you will always hear 'no' a lot more than 'yes'. Understand this and it will make you more resilient to the inevitable rejection.

In terms of your results, for a beginner this is to be expected. However, your stats do tell me that you are doing something wrong in terms of how you're approaching these girls. You look like a decent looking guy, in shape etc, so it's unlikely to be an SMV problem. But there are specific ways of approaching which are better than others. Daygame IS a skill, it's not just walking up to girls, telling them they're cute and then doing small-talk. That is not 'game', and it leads to lacklustre results unless you happen to stumble on girls who already fancy you before you even start speaking.

Can you please explain what a typical conversation looks like for you, or, even better, have you ever recorded one of your approaches on an Apple watch / your phone? If you're able to share them with me I can help diagnose your issues.

The problem now is every time I go out I'm scared to increase this approach number since I been looking at numbers from other guys saying each 10 approaches:1 lay ratio, it just kills my confidence and makes me scared that no one will like me, I already talked to a lot of chicks and I just see no results, have some other friends from my area that have sex without even trying and I genuinely look better, I'm taller and have a better style. I gotta admit I'm a little anxious/awkward at talking plus English isn't my first language. I read Andy's post about helpless and hopeless, it really did helped me and motivated me to go to a near campus. Got 5 numbers within 11 approaches, however only 1 has replied back and today I'm totally devastated from this results. It's hard to keep my mind thinking into other things and can't really study for my courses.

Ok, a couple of things here:

1 out of 10 approach-to-lay isdoable (I did it myself 2 years ago - I had 6 lays from 55 approaches), but to maintain it over a much longer period of time is extremely difficult - you shouldn't trust any guy who claims they can keep it up for months or years. The process is too random - some girls will legitimately have boyfriends / be married. Some won't like the way you look (each girl will have very specific physical tastes). Some won't be amenable to being approached in the daytime. Some are having a terrible day and don't want to be approached, etc.

In any case, you shouldn't be aiming for a 1 out of 10 ratio - get that way out of your mind. Forget about it entirely. Leave that for when you are getting on dates more consistently. Tom Torero used to say 1 in 100 was more accurate for a beginner. Watch from 7:12 here https://youtu.be/VuglNYTIDPo

Also, if you got 5 numbers and only 1 reply, that's fairly normal.

There's so much I could say here on what gets girls to reply, but I'll keep it brief:
1. If you want a girl to reply, you need to make an emotional impact on her. She needs to feel a proper 'connection' during the interaction. Again, a typical 'small talk then ask for the number' interaction is NOT going to cut it for most girls. She will forget you almost immediately. The biggest reason girls don't reply to a daygamer is because he makes almost zero emotional impact - bland, lacklustre, forgettable. You need to show some charisma, some sexual intent, etc.
2. You need to DO game, i.e. build attraction (teasing, spiking her emotionally) and make sure there's comfort in there as well (getting to know her, making her feel safe, etc).

If you're also able to provide some examples of what you text to these girls after you get the number, that would also be helpful.

 

[MakingAComeback]

Wouldn't stress it.

1000+ approaches in 2022.

0 lays.

Think I got less than 30 numbers the entire time.

2 dates.

Nature of the beast. You need reassurance right now, which is fine. You're normal man, nothing wrong here. All is well.

Keep working,
MAC

 

[jay stone]

Sonofagun how do you build an emotional connection during cold approach? What do you say?

 

[Sonofagun]

@Sonofagun how do you build an emotional connection during cold approach? What do you say?

This is an enormous question dude. In a really good daygame interaction there is a lot of stuff happening and I can't break it all down in a single post. Guys like Nick Krauser / Tom Torero have answered this in more detail than I'm willing to, but here are some thoughts:

It's not merely about what you say, the base of a good daygame interaction is your nonverbal communication, or the general 'vibe' of the conversation. This encompasses everything from the strength of your eye contact with the girl, to your body language, the pace of your speech, the depth of your voice, the volume of your voice, etc. Guys that do well at daygame are strong on all of these things, and they minimise unattractive behaviours like excessive nervousness, being overly agreeable, upward inflection in the voice at the end of sentences, etc.

They typically make the interaction fun and playful at the start (i.e. starting with a tease after delivering the opener), then after the girl is hooked (asks a question back and seems to be interested in continuing the conversation) they dial down their energy and get the girl feeling comfortable and invested by telling her a bit about them, and finding out more about her, then they close. By leading the girl through this process, at the end she feels attracted and comfortable.

Of course you can't build an emotional connection with every girl. Some just refuse to take part in the conversation, but that's fine, you only need to focus on the ones that show interest.

The problem is most guys doing cold approach during the day start the conversation, ask the girl a series of mundane questions, and then try and get the number within a couple of minutes, having built practically zero attraction or comfort. They're often too nice, too chit-chatty. She may well give the number out, but she doesn't give a fuck about them and probably won't text back. They didn't hit any of her buttons or stimulate her emotionally in any way.

If you want a beginner intro, this video is worth a watch: https://krauserpua.com/2015/05/03/beginner-daygame-free-instructional-video/

 

[Manganiello]

Ok so there is a lot to unpack here
Let's go POINT BY POINT but first of all there is an important question:

Who are you?( and I intend this as what is your SMV - did you get girls before dg on consistent frequency?) where do you approach? (city, country)

I been doing approaches on my daily life + once a week at the mall for 2 hours. It's been around somewhere around 200-300 approaches since then and gotten about 35 phone numbers.

it's 200 or 300 approaches? because if you get 35 out of 200 it's 1 in 6 which is intermediate level, I would say very good but still. 200-300 approaches is N O T H I N G.
There is a reason why it's called the "thousand sets of hell" because the first one thousand sets are bad and needed just to learn everything (assuming a lot of things aren't going your way like looks, charisma, etc)

From those 35 numbers I had 3 flakes and been on 3 different dates. Sadly they all saw me as boyfriend material, two of the girls were extremely inexperienced and one was a single mom.

too much of a small sample size to make any judgement...and what's wrong with a single mum? if she is hot af?

The problem now is every time I go out I'm scared to increase this approach number since I been looking at numbers from other guys saying each 10 approaches:1 lay ratio, it just kills my confidence and makes me scared that no one will like me

First of all, I absolutely guarantee you, and I've met every REAL serious day gamer out there, NOBODY has 1 in 10. That's an american legend that started to go out there to "make dg look better" while in reality the Elite sits at a 3%.
1 lay from 30 approaches (assuming you have an average SMV) it's fucking good - I know people that had to approach 500 times before getting laid and then started to getting laid every 50-60 approaches but having a fuck ton of fun in the process.

Your mindset needs fixing for sure, that's why the 1000's set of hell are there to make you fight your demons

Could not agree more.

Wish someone could've told me this when I started.

Wish there were more people posting their cold approach stats on this forum.

But just do you know Sonofagun it took me 300 to get one lay and that was after the AA Program.

 

[pancakemouse]

I link this article every time someone talks about "daygame stats": https://thomascrownpua.com/2021/03/31/why-do-we-calculate-approach-to-lay-ratios-thinking-about-stats-and-holding-contradictory-views/

The gist is that they're almost completely meaningless as far as comparing with other guys.

Every guy is going to have his own:
- Sexual market value
- Quality standards
- Approach volume
- Approach style
- Local market

These cause any stats to vary widely. For example, a guy who approaches only yes girls can have a ratio of 1:50 and a guy who approaches yes, maybe, and no girls can have a ratio of 1:350, even though both spent the same amount of time infield getting these results.

Of the guys I know who get laid the most, some of them are 1:50, but some of them are WAY higher, all the way towards the other end, simply because they are less picky about who they approach.

The only time you should look at stats are for comparing yourself get better over time, but even then you need to take not of how other factors might have changed for you.

 

[Sonofagun]

Ok so there is a lot to unpack here
Let's go POINT BY POINT but first of all there is an important question:

Who are you?( and I intend this as what is your SMV - did you get girls before dg on consistent frequency?) where do you approach? (city, country)



it's 200 or 300 approaches? because if you get 35 out of 200 it's 1 in 6 which is intermediate level, I would say very good but still. 200-300 approaches is N O T H I N G.
There is a reason why it's called the "thousand sets of hell" because the first one thousand sets are bad and needed just to learn everything (assuming a lot of things aren't going your way like looks, charisma, etc)


too much of a small sample size to make any judgement...and what's wrong with a single mum? if she is hot af?



First of all, I absolutely guarantee you, and I've met every REAL serious day gamer out there, NOBODY has 1 in 10. That's an american legend that started to go out there to "make dg look better" while in reality the Elite sits at a 3%.
1 lay from 30 approaches (assuming you have an average SMV) it's fucking good - I know people that had to approach 500 times before getting laid and then started to getting laid every 50-60 approaches but having a fuck ton of fun in the process.

Your mindset needs fixing for sure, that's why the 1000's set of hell are there to make you fight your demons

Could not agree more.

Wish someone could've told me this when I started.

Wish there were more people posting their cold approach stats on this forum.

But just do you know @Sonofagun it took me 300 to get one lay and that was after the AA Program.

Yep. I know 2 guys who did over 3,000 approaches between them in the last 2 years and neither got laid... there's a lot of factors at play. I also once winged with a guy who says he's done close to 900 for only 2 dates.

It depends on your starting point, and (crucially) starting SMV relative to the girls you're approaching.

I'm happy to keep track of my stats on here. I've been tracking them since 2019. I may start a log soon actually.

 

[W G]

In terms of your results, for a beginner this is to be expected. However, your stats do tell me that you are doing something wrong in terms of how you're approaching these girls. You look like a decent looking guy, in shape etc, so it's unlikely to be an SMV problem. But there are specific ways of approaching which are better than others. Daygame IS a skill, it's not just walking up to girls, telling them they're cute and then doing small-talk.

I think this is very accurate. My approaches really change from chick to chick and my daily mood, if they’re cool, chill talking with me and I’m having a good day I have a smooth interaction, even throwing some jokes here and there. However if the chick is shy, anxious (like most of them) is a little contagious and I get the same vibe (voice tone, play a little with hands and mentally blank quickly). Another thing I have to remind myself before approaching is to maintain eye contact and to talk slower, if not I will unconsciously avoid making eye contact by default, it's not just with chicks but almost anyone.

Can you please explain what a typical conversation looks like for you, or, even better, have you ever recorded one of your approaches on an Apple watch / your phone? If you're able to share them with me I can help diagnose your issues.

Haven't record any approach
My "script":

Me: Hey! (wait for eye contact) you're cute/attractive
Her: T-thanks!
Me: What's your name?
Her: Emily
Me: Will, nice to meet you (handshake)
Improvise for around 1 minute or when ran out of things to say and then ask for phone #

Phone text game (same day):
Me: Hey cutie, its Will from x, how's it going?
If not ghosted ....
Her: Good, I just arrived my place
Me: Are you busy right now? I need to tell you something
Her: Im free, why?
Me: *Calls her and set a date via phone for tomorrow if possible*

 

[loki]

Me: Are you busy right now? I need to tell you something
Her: Im free, why?
Me: *Calls her and set a date via phone for tomorrow if possible*

looks like we have our first low hanging fruit to fix

dont call them to set up the date. ask if they're free on two times at least one day apart, e.g. "are you free thursday or saturday" and go from there. if they say no ask when they're free, if they say yes text them the exact time and location to meet you. its actually more time efficient than calling anyway

plus chances are if you have a weak frame in daygame your voice on a call isn't helping

 

[loki]

Me: Hey! (wait for eye contact) you're cute/attractive
Her: T-thanks!
Me: What's your name?
Her: Emily
Me: Will, nice to meet you (handshake)
Improvise for around 1 minute or when ran out of things to say and then ask for phone #

heres some improvements taught to me by Troy, colgate's dating coach roommate with >200 daygame lays

- approach from the side and slightly in front, come close to her, and tap her on the elbow or shoulder twice with the back of your hand, like you're getting a friend's attention. dont be autistic about this, obviously if you're approaching from the front anyway, or if she notices you before you come closer, then just move on to saying hey
- say hey and then nothing else. wait for her to say hey back. THEN tell her she's cute etc. this actually makes your frame feel way stronger, you'll see it as soon as you try it
- create a basic filler script that runs for 1-3 minutes and STICK TO IT and focus instead purely on improving your BODY LANGUAGE and TONALITY. Because the words are WAY less important than the script and there's very improvement to be made in speech anyway in daygame - even with optimal game 80% of girls you fuck will be Yes girls who you would've done just fine with, with a boring ass small talk script
- on that note, acting normal is FAR FAR FAR MORE IMPORTANT than running game. you run game ON TOP of acting normal, and NEVER sacrifice acting normal for running more game. ALWAYS try to make it as much of a "normal" conversation and approach as possible, like you're a confident guy who's never heard about any of this game stuff or negging and you just have a chill conversation for a few minutes before grabbing the number and that's it
- I really, really need to emphasize the acting normal part. Really it's more than acting normal, it's being normal. Dress normal, have normal social skills, normal speech, etc.
- acting normal also means like... if there's something weird in the air between you two... like maybe you approached her in a weird way... maybe it's a weird situation (dark at night in an alley)... maybe the conversation just really isn't hitting... CALL IT OUT!!! you're showing you're normal by noticing it and relieving the tension and making it a common thing that yeah haha that was awkward so anyway where are you from etc
- focusing on acting more normal and cutting down on game has given me way better results than any other improvements to game I've made
- how to practice acting normal: socialize as much as possible. and try to have strict standards for what's weird, because usually other people think something is weirder than you do

sample script given to me by Troy btw

hey what's up
-
you're super cute
-
what are you up to
-
you a student or do you work
-
did you grow up here
-
(personal addon because I like to negotiate the date in person)
cool what are you doing this week. ok I'll take you out for drinks. are you free tomorrow. alright lets meet at X by Y. awesome
(again just to emphasize this is a personal thing. and IMO you need to be minimally pushy here, like if she's saying she's busy or giving an objection and not working with you to go around it just leave it for the texting phase)
-
(regardless of anything, after getting the number)
random small talk for like a sentence or two so you don't look like a number bandit

---

the words dont matter that much and provided the convo isn't super super weird for the 1-3 minutes that you talk, you aren't going to be losing any meaningful amount of lays by having a """"suboptimal"""" conversation. the above script is just a sample but feel free to come up with something that feels more natural to you if its easier to repeat so that you can focus on body language and tone etc

 

[loki]

The problem is most guys doing cold approach during the day start the conversation, ask the girl a series of mundane questions, and then try and get the number within a couple of minutes, having built practically zero attraction or comfort. They're often too nice, too chit-chatty. She may well give the number out, but she doesn't give a fuck about them and probably won't text back. They didn't hit any of her buttons or stimulate her emotionally in any way.

The overwhelming majority of attraction comes from being good looking and well styled, and to a lesser extent having attractive body language and tonality
The overwhelming majority of comfort comes from acting and talking like a normal person

This isn't to say game is useless. I love it and am fascinated by it and it always offers improvements. But from everything I've experienced and heard of so far, it's a very heavy investment that only pays off when you're very very good at it, and even at that point the large majority of your lays still come from Yes girls who require almost no effort

Almost everyone has a higher ROI from being more physically attractive, more normal, and fixing insecurities than from studying game. Aside from very minimal low hanging fruit like a basic roadmap of escalation, or basic awareness of what women are turned off by (neediness, lack of leadership, etc)

Again... game completely matters, and low hanging fruit is very important to identify and fix, but for the large majority of people, improving the "basics" (looks, normal social skills, generic self improvement) is a better payoff for the time and effort

 

[twonightstander]

This post clearly hits home so I will try to give you some pointers. This is in addition to the good feedback that fellas above have said. I will ask you some questions and make some comments:

• Do you follow any model/strategy when it comes to game and cold approach? Most of us are not born as naturally charismatic and charming dudes so you will need a model to learn and emulate until you become a better "seducer" (the model becomes part of you). As far as models I'm referring to things such as the london daygame model, RSD type game, full on technical game, etc. Without a model, you will be spinning the wheels and trying to solve a problem that other guys have solved already. And it sounds like you are running some sort of basic guy game and that simply doesn't cut it in 2023, regardless of your looks.

• Despite of having a model, stats will be terrible first and you will have a learning curve. Atm, I'm at ~600 approaches, got like 80ish numbers and only 3 lays and the stats range in a wide spectrum at the beginning. Getting rid of AA is the first piece of the puzzle but learning game is the real beast that will take a lot more time.

• Also, it's not only what you do during the cold approach but everything else after leading up to sex that matters. Every single step in the seduction ladder matters and every step is a chance for you to fuck up. There will be lots of pain but once again, having a model will help you learn and identify where are you failing within the process.

• This means that you will have to learn cold approach, text game, know how to properly run dates, sex and many more things so you minimize the chances of fucking up during the entire process. But this will take time and a lot of mistakes.

• As far as stats are concerned, elite daygamers will usually have a 25:1 ratio of closing while at nightgame elite nightgamers are able to close at like 3-5:1. But nightgame is an entirely different and more difficult beast.

• When you go out, what is your game plan? Are you going out to collect numbers or to fuck girls? This might be an unpopular opinion but I suggest that you try to push each interaction as much as possible. If the girl is logistically available, why not go for an instant date? If she still has time, why not try to pull? Are you going out to become a number collector or to get laid? Unless you are able to run a textbook good interaction in ~5-10 minutes before number closing, I suggest trying to spend as much time as possible with the particular girl and push as many steps in the seduction ladder as possible.

• Why are you doing daygame? Is it to get laid only? I say this because at first cold approach will be very unrewarding so I strongly suggest supplementing it with online dating so you can have more options and be less needy in set.

• I also recommend recording your sets once you have a model that you start learning. Listening to ones sets will be very cringey but also extremely revealing and it will show you a lot of the mistakes that you are making. Only the ones daring to look at the truth witll be able to see it.

A lot of us are in this same journey so keep pushing man. There is no other way. With online dating alone you will never be able to max out your sex life so keep that in mind while learning cold approach.

 

[Sonofagun]

The problem is most guys doing cold approach during the day start the conversation, ask the girl a series of mundane questions, and then try and get the number within a couple of minutes, having built practically zero attraction or comfort. They're often too nice, too chit-chatty. She may well give the number out, but she doesn't give a fuck about them and probably won't text back. They didn't hit any of her buttons or stimulate her emotionally in any way.

The overwhelming majority of attraction comes from being good looking and well styled, and to a lesser extent having attractive body language and tonality
The overwhelming majority of comfort comes from acting and talking like a normal person

This isn't to say game is useless. I love it and am fascinated by it and it always offers improvements. But from everything I've experienced and heard of so far, it's a very heavy investment that only pays off when you're very very good at it, and even at that point the large majority of your lays still come from Yes girls who require almost no effort

Almost everyone has a higher ROI from being more physically attractive, more normal, and fixing insecurities than from studying game. Aside from very minimal low hanging fruit like a basic roadmap of escalation, or basic awareness of what women are turned off by (neediness, lack of leadership, etc)

Again... game completely matters, and low hanging fruit is very important to identify and fix, but for the large majority of people, improving the "basics" (looks, normal social skills, generic self improvement) is a better payoff for the time and effort

This is a bit of a red herring.

It goes without saying a guy should looksmax as much as possible before starting daygame - no arguments from me there, but it does actually matter what you say, and how you say it. The OP is a good example of this as he looks above average in terms of aesthetic (though I'm not sure about fashion) and is still struggling.

As I said in an earlier post, there are simply better ways of doing things.

Chit chatting with a girl for a minute then getting a number usually = flake.

Male 8s can get away with chitchat. The average guy (5-7) usually can't.

Have to make her feel something

 

[Crisis_Overcomer]

Moved to the states about 2 years ago from Peru (South America) and I live in Fort Myers FL now. Getting laid was not a problem back home, was pretty successful without trying and in worst shape.

That's a big issue right here. You moved from one environment to the other and kept expectations the same. HUGE MISTAKE. Peru is probably easier than America so this will affect conversions.

You got great advice from the guys here. The next needle mover is actually applying the advice.

Create a log, keep notes, and "enjoy" your trial by fire.

I'm locking this but the only reason I do so is to motivate you into some action.