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Thrice log. I need advice on how to move forward with a girl

@Thrice

Speaking for all the mods here, we wanted to briefly address this.

At times you have a very negative mindset, and questionable actions. The mods are not here to police your life, but we must be diligent about looking out for the health and culture of the community. Sometimes your behaviors can be a potential threat to that community, particularly if your actions somehow got word back about this community and getting it canceled.

That said, we CAN see you improving. For example, we gave you a warning a long time ago about violent, woman hating behavior, and we've not seen that level of aggression from you since. We acknowledge that clawing your way from depression, negative beliefs, and resentment of others is not done overnight.

We would really like to see you recording your progress of working on your mental health, either with a therapist, coach, or on your own.

Please don't give us a reason to ban you by escalating your negative behavior. We do want to see you succeed.
 
Some crazy things happened lately. So first thing first I decided to quit the pizza delivery job. I decided that changing my life was better than some extra money. After quitting the night pizza delivery job I was able to hang out every evening in the same places where the guys I meet on the tecno clubs on weekends hang out.

This way I was really able to form bonds because now it's not just weekends anymore, I'm meeting them every evening and socializing. yes I have less money but it's the only way i can move forward, the reason I have been delivering pizza for the last 14 years is that I'm a scared little pussy afraid of any change.

I've also realized that perfectionism is my main problem, i'm an overthinker perfectionist who takes no action and the only way to change that is to tackle my goals one at a time.

I've had 5k on my bank account for 6 months and i have been reading used cars reviews for a year, I have realized that it's all part of my perfectionist overthinker mindset so I have decided enough is enough and bought my first car within a week. I've never been happier about a decision.

The day after buying the car i met a hot 20yo i tried to approach multiple times at the tecno club, she remembered me and was so sweet. Asked her if she wanted to hang out and said yes.
We spent the day together eating, drinking and doing other fun stuff. She likes drugs too.

It was an amazing feeling, my first day with a car spent with a hot 20-year-old. And it only happened because i have balls and go after girls. She asked me for my ig but i told her i'm banned for 30 days because i don't have good pictures yet. I took her home and asked her if she wants to hang out again, she said yes but just as friends adding some lame excuses i didn't understand. She also said she had a boyfriend but it can't be true, what kind of boyfriend would be ok with her spending the entire day with me?

I admit i was hurt because i fantasized about her like a bet cuck since meeting her at the tecno club. Now that i'm less butthurt i'm thinking that maybe keeping her as a friend would be a good option, i'm doing all this because i want to become more normie and less autistic.
Thats the goal of this social circle game phase i'm doing, not just pussy but also becoming more of a normal person with friends. And for this goal, having a hot 20 years friend and being seen with her is not exactly a bad thing. At the same time i felt like a cuck when she said no after we spent the entire day together and bought stuff for her.

Another amazing and a bit fucked up experience happened two weekends ago. So i got invited to this mega tecno events. one of the people in my car was the 20yo i used to stalk with the fake profile when i was an incel, how fucked up is this? i used to stalk them now hey're asking me for rides...like i said many times they even made a group.

She clearly remembers me. say what you want, I'm not putting women on a pedestal, but they do remember and notice everything. That change in the face for a split second is all i need to know that she remembers me, but if she asked for a ride it means she's not scared i guess.

To be honest, i consider her extremely beautiful, i couldn't look at her in the face because her beauty is actually intimidating + the fact that i used to stalk her doesn't help. She's into drugs too, you wouldn't tell looking at that angel face with freckles. i would give an arm to have a girl like that. her boyfriend is not better looking then me, but he met her within her circle. I'm trying to not compare and be jealous.

They met when i was at home fighting my own brain and suicidal thoughts. they are on their normal schedule, I'm on the healing and catching-up schedule. But i still ask myself why i've been so insecure and beta all this years now that i'm seeing with my own guys that i'm better looking than most of the guys who are fucking the girls i used to stalk...

I have been dealt a bad hand in this life, I will never be normal. I will always have to fight just to be able to wake up before 1 pm. My brain, the most important organ in the human body is sick. it's a pain-inducing machine. But i'm proud for fighting back. I will die like a lion, not a sheep. I will not allow myself to ever rot at home again. I will make friends, create memories and fuck girls. I can't control the outcome but sure i will try.

I'm so sad the first girl didnt want but it's still progress, huge progress. I was fat and rotting at home at some point, now i'm hanging out with hot 20 years olds in my car. And if it's true she has a boyfriend (i doubt it) it means she likes me enough to want to hang out and be seen with me while her boyfriend is waiting for her at home. This is a girl i used to stalk with fake profiles now i'm approaching them and going places with them.

it's a win but sex is important too, it's been a lot since the last time i had sex and i'm becoming weird around attractive girls again, so i need to make sex happen.

Next goal is to get fucking pictures for instagram. Getting pictures of me taken is my biggest fear now and i have to tackle it before moving to the next goal.
 
I don't think you've been dealt as bad of a hand as you think.

Yeah your mental health and inner game is abysmal, but looks wise you're quite lucky.

The fact that you've been able to go out with hot 20 year olds (as a mid 30s man) even though you have such negative views of yourself and the world, speaks volumes about your value in other departments.

And honestly it's better that way. The thing you can control the least, you got lucky in. You can fix your mental health and inner game. It's not easy, but it's definitely possible.
 
Squilliam said:
The fact that you've been able to go out with hot 20 year olds
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I find them very hot but i might be biased because tecno club girls are exactly my type. I can send you pictures, anyway I think they're really hot. The last girl we went clubbing with has the most beautiful angel face I've ever seen, and she's fucking a drug dealer with no money that doesn't look or dress better than me. I have been extremely depressed since for this reason.

the first girl just wanted to hang out because I have a car, and she said no to a second date. I can't stop thinking about how beautiful they are and the fact that I've never got to experience a girlfriend like that. Just 6 lays with Tinder and nothing else. My need for intimacy was not satisfied with these 6 tinder lays that lasted 10 minutes each and were nothing special. I want to experience what it's like to have a feminine girlfriend like that, kiss her face, and hold her hands every day.

The socializing thing is getting crazier and crazier, today we met a guy that sells drug and we went play bowling with him, we picked his girlfriend up and took her with us...a drop-dead gorgeous 19 yo...how the fuck they do it they aren't even good looking or well dressed and why I've been sleeping in my bubble stalking girls with fake profiles if shit is that easy?

No girls see me as this crazy incel weirdo because i have been stalking them while i could've started this social circle game earlier and got results without stalking any girl. Even after improving my looks it's all challenges and no sex.

My only goal now is to take pictures for instagram I'm satisfied with and start asking girls for their folllow.
The first girl wanted to hang out again so I need a couple of good ig pics where i don't look like a weirdo, maybe a good pic of me practicing guitar and another good pic of recording a song, singing into a mic.

I have those things I just need to improve my room, the goal is to show her I'm a normal dude with hobbies and invite her home to watch a movie. But she already said she wants to hang out just as friends.
Worst case scenario she doesn't find me attractive and really wants to be just friends and i benefit from having a hot 20yo friend. When we went to the tecno club last saturday i really could not look the other girl in the eyes

I'm acting like i have time to waste but i'm fucking 36, i need to do what i got to do ASAP.

Let's recap some impressive things i did lately that were impossible to imagine just 3 years ago.

- i decided to make friends at the tecno clubs going against the most popular and common advice and "meet ups", jiujitsu and shit like rock climbing. I know very well from experience that you just meet dorks and lame guys that dont wanna at those places...yes even at the "jiujitsu saves lives practice" they are all dorks and weirdos that dont wanna go out and talk to girls.

so I said fuck it, why ask people to go out with me, why not just befriend them when they're "already out". decided to hit the tecno clubs and it was a success. This is my original idea, something I've never read on self-improvement communities

- i approached a girl and we had fun together going around in my car, she's 20 and hot. Partial success because she wants to stay friends but still shocked that this is my new normal

-i went clubbing with a group of friends and one of the girls is from the group of girls i used to stalk, this is kinda crazy to. instead of changing city to escape this thing, i'm like redeeming myself.

99% of guys would be so ashamed that they wouldn't be able to leave the house, but i have this could care less chill attitude and it looks like it made some girl change idea...crazy.

Now it's time to take good ig pics and start seriously approaching. I wish i had a friend in real life who could support me in my journey and even join me.
Depression is very very painful, it's the worst pain a human could experience. A fucking guy in this forum called negative and said I'm spreading negativity and ruining the mood. Imagine having to face a life where emotional pain is daily torture and having people saying you ruin the mood...I'm here to show people with clinical depression that you can achieve your goals anyway


"Hollow Crown"

There, there must be
An easier way
To release these feelings

So, so far from home
I need your voice
To hold my head together

So, so far from home
I need your voice
To lift my lonely state of mind

You, you can but wait
for me to return
For me to show you how I felt

These wounds have bled
And pages fly by
I need to feel you right by my side

So, so far from home
I need your voice
To hold my head together

So, So far from home
I need your voice
To lift my lonely state of mind

Oh there must be
An easier way
Oh there must be
An easier way
Oh there must be
An easier way
To release these feelings

As the sea breeze hits my lungs
It takes me back to where I belong
To where I belong

As the sea breeze hits my lungs
It takes me back to where I belong
To where I belong

As the sea breeze hits my lungs
It takes me back to where I belong
To where I belong


 
bought new lights and practiced taking some pictures. The new lights are helping. I look better with the hat, i think it's because I have a big forehead. I'm taking finasteride and using minoxidil, i will not allow my hairline to move back, the fact that I look better with the hat is telling. I need more hair in the front, not less

I'm learning about the importance of lighting. Two pictures taken within one minute can look worlds apart, I can look good in one pic if the lighting is good and bad in another picture taken seconds after if the lighting is bad.

This is helping me deal with my self-image trauma. the idea of taking pictures outside is still intimidating so i decided to do my best to take some indoor instagram pictures.

Use them, meaning expose myself by giving my Instagram to girls for the first time and then taking pictures outside as a second step. Not a bad idea considering you can take sick indoor pictures if the room looks good and you have something interesting going on like a guitar to play or something, making it all look casual and not intentional


https://imgur.com/a/vWQceDC
 
So I think I have made huge progress to the point I don't even recognize my new life. I have a car, and new friends to go out with during the week and on weekends. I also hang out with a hot 20yo during the week.

This is what bothering me and I want some advice because I don't want to be a sore loser.

The problem is my relationship with this 20 yo girl. She respects me and this is a new thing for me, it shows the power of looksmaxing.

She told me ." don't get angry but I want to hang out as friends", she also added, "I know girls come up with these kinds of white lies when rejecting a guy but in my case, they're not lies, I'm not in a phase where I want to date a guy".

Before looks maxing they didn't even look at me in the eyes when talking and they had no respect in their words/tone, now they talk like they respect me. Crazy that what i have been saying for 15 years on various forums ended up being true.

And like Squilliam said i must be lucky in the look department, a hot 20yo girl doesn't even want to be seen with a guy under a certain look threshold even just as friends

Despite all this i'm still the old sore loser incel with a blackpill/incel mindset.

I'm starting getting angry because i buy drinks and other stuff for her, we hang out and after i take her home. She doesent fuck me of course or even hug me, she doesent do what the girls from tinder did like sitting next to me with arms touching etc. I'm asking myself if i'm just a beta bux in her eyes.

The benefits for an ex-incel like me are huge like getting used to these hot young girls and stopping acting weird around them, being seen with her with other guys that are jealous and girls that keep staring at us

But when we went to that rave 3 weeks ago in my car there's was another girl who i consider the hottest in the entire city and she's with a 20 years broke guy with no money that sells weed and she's so sweet and loving to him while getting almost nothing material from him because the guy is broke as fuck

Meanwhile i'm buying drinks for a girl that dosent like me, what do you think?
 
Thrice said:
Meanwhile i'm buying drinks for a girl that dosent like me, what do you think?
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She sees you as a friend, so dont buy her drinks. I think its great that you are hanging out with her, as you said it will help you get used to hot girls. But this is just a friendship, so its better to not look at this through the game lens but just treat her the way you would treat a male friend.
 
Perseus said:
She sees you as a friend, so dont buy her drinks.
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Yes and I'm pretty uncomfortable with doing her favors and buying drinks when her friend, who's even hotter than her is fucking a broke 20yo guy every night.

problem is she's still in high school and broke so when we go eat/drink something at McDonalds for example or bars it's a given that I'm the one who will pay. She doesn't even try to pay. It's understood she doesn't have money when we enter the place.

thats the way i made friends at tecno clubs, they're all broke so I buy them drinks sometimes or cigarettes, but with the guys i don't have to keep buying so they stay friends. With this girls, the only way to stop paying is to stop hanging out with her.

She likes bars, she likes to drink and do stuff like coke and ketamine. I would have to invite her for a walk at the park to hang out with her without paying anything but I'm sure she won't accept.

One thing I didn't like is that she didn't want to give me her Watsap the first time we went out, this week she gave me her watsap because she wanted me to buy a phone for her with my Paypal because she doesn't have one.

This fucking girl is quite clever and i can't allow her to do this. I think about her after I take her home but she doesn't think about me. It's a shame because being seen with hot girls is an incredible feeling, it gives you status. Guys and girls look at me differently. I will use it as a motivation to find another one, i'm too blackpilled to simp and i'm starting having some anger which could outweight the benefits anyway.

It's time to have balls and do what the average bluepill guy can't do and stop hanging out with her
 
Thrice said:
thats the way i made friends at tecno clubs, they're all broke so I buy them drinks sometimes or cigarettes, but with the guys i don't have to keep buying so they stay friends. With this girls, the only way to stop paying is to stop hanging out with her.

She likes bars, she likes to drink and do stuff like coke and ketamine. I would have to invite her for a walk at the park to hang out with her without paying anything but I'm sure she won't accept.

One thing I didn't like is that she didn't want to give me her Watsap the first time we went out, this week she gave me her watsap because she wanted me to buy a phone for her with my Paypal because she doesn't have one
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If people only hang out with you to get you to pay for them they are not your friends. I’d say ask her to hang out in the park and do some other free activities, if she doesn’t want to (and doesnt have an excuse) hang out with you, then yes she is using you and isnt your friend. You could still keep hanging out with her though if it brings you benefit (meeting other hot girls for example)
 
Yeah I agree with Perseus. Now that you've explained things this way it does sound like she's using you. If she likes you for who you are she'll spend time with you without spending money.

If I were to go out with a female friend I would not pay for them. I only pay for girls if I'm involved with them sexually.
 
Perseus said:
If people only hang out with you to get you to pay for them they are not your friends.
Click to expand...
Some context. These people have been knowing each other since nursery school. They don't need new friends. they're circle is complete and friendship needs are satisfied. I'm the new 36yo guy that wanted to be noticed. Offering a ride and a drink is very normal sice they're broke. I ended up befriending naturally redpilled and wild guys from techno clubs.

The other option is meet ups where you meet nerds and neck beards that don't even want to go out on weekends.
Perseus said:
You could still keep hanging out with her though if it brings you benefit (meeting other hot girls for example)
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i already met 2 girls through her, every time she meets her friends she introduces us. The benefits of hanging out with these girls are absolutely huge.

If I had to choose between a 15k coaching program and her I would choose her as the factor that gives more immediate benefits. The confidence boost, girls and guys staring while looking like a chad with her. Meeting her female friends. Getting used to hot girls.

Remeber i talked about a group of girls that made a group about me when i used to stalk them with fake profiles when i was an incel? when they see me with her they are shocked hahahah. I got my sweet revenge.

Listen, guys, the benefits for a 36yo guy who doesn't have much time left is worth 100k, a couple of bucks for a drink to save my life are NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. I'm getting 100k worth of benefits in return.

What i'm ashamed to admit is that i am not mentally healthy enough to reap these immense benefits. I have some redpill rage thinking that I like her and she doesn't like me back.

This is the truth, she's very usefull but not attracted to me and i'm too but hurt. The benefits are priceless. I'm spending 8 euros for a drink and she's givin me 5k of benefits every time we go out.

But what she gives me is indirect and i'm too redpilled for my own good so i have rage sometimes.

Another thing is...i'm doing this tecno club social circle thing none of you is doing. So i have to add is...these guys and girls are broke and in good faith.
They don't use you, they arent mean, they are broke and need thing. They don't call you back because just so you buy them stuff, after a while they just call you back because there's a new party and need a friend because the other guys are at another party that night

this girl is "innocent", she does cocaine, ketamine and smokes a lot. She's not mean and hot enough to get a rich guy and not me if she wanted someone to use for money

sorry if i'm using you to give myself permission but thats the truth, if i didnt have redpill rage i give her 10 euros worth of cocktail and she gives me 1k worth of value every time
Squilliam said:
If I were to go out with a female friend I would not pay for them. I only pay for girls if I'm involved with them sexually.
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yes i understand but read what i told persues for context
 
Actually I think you're right and you should keep hanging out with her, but you have to forget trying to do anything with her. But the social status that she gives you just by hanging out with you, is indeed worth a lot.

Your problem is that you're too focused on her as a romantic prospect when you should think bigger and use her friendship to get introductions to other girls (which is what you've already done)

You're probably not ready yet but you should also absolutely try to get some pictures with her. Next time you're out just tell one of the guys to take a picture of you two. Say it's "for the memories." A picture with you two where she looks like she's having fun, is worth 200 professional photoshoots.

I don't have any tips to get over the butthurt itself, but like paying some euros for drinks is indeed a great deal if you get the status, introductions, and maybe even pics with her.

If you firmly friendzone yourself, at a later stage, you can even tell her to be your wingwoman and have her approach girls with her and it will 10x your results.

Don't throw this away because you're butthurt about paying some euros. Like you said, it's worth more than money in many ways.
 
Holden is spot on. As long as you don't hurt yourself financially, there is much more to win than to lose by keeping this connection going.

There is not a single coaching offer that can offer more value than spending time with stunning girls who lead you into their lives. See this as a learning opportunity rather than a last-ditch attempt to get that 1 girl.

You will learn what sort of stuff these girls like talking about, you'll learn what type of men these girls date and which type of men they cheat with (she might tell after a while if you're non-judgemental), she'll literally teach you everything you need to know. But maybe even most importantly, you'll see that these girls have flaws too. Imo there's nothing better to avoid putting girls on pedestals than seeing they have issues, insecurities, flaws, ... too. They may be hot and get a lot of attention, but they suffer in certain areas too.

Look at that 20 year old broke dude who can get girls. Can he just get that 1 girl or is he a real player? If he's a real player, observe what he's doing. Maybe he's just hot, but more than likely he's either funny too or extremely fun/relax to be around with. Take some of the stuff he's doing right and apply it to yourself.

Keep riding the momentum and expand the social circle when your friend introduces you to more people. Talk to them and if you have a connection or something in common with them, befriend them too. If there's a girl you really like, try to see if you can get something going with her. Funnily, the only way to get your current friend to see you romantically is to get her friends to desire you.

And please don't forget to take some pics for social proof. Sometimes connections get lost over time but if you take pics you can use that social proof in later stages and with new people.
 
I personally buy drinks for my female friends. As I do for my male friends.

There's nothing wrong with that.

I guess the difference would be that usually my friend would reciprocate because they're not students so it's more equal.

In your case though, indeed if she's 20, she won't have money in general. But if she brings you social proof when you go out and introduces you to her friends, it can be worth it.

Thrice said:
What i'm ashamed to admit is that i am not mentally healthy enough to reap these immense benefits. I have some redpill rage thinking that I like her and she doesn't like me back.
Click to expand...
It also could be a great way to get out of your incel mindset, to be with a girl for other reason than getting laid with her. Try to really empathize with her and her life.

It can be challenging, but it can be part of healing your mindset.
 
Squilliam said:
If I were to go out with a female friend I would not pay for them. I only pay for girls if I'm involved with them sexually.
Click to expand...

???????

Many many times I've made many connections and had awesome nights partially because I bought a bottle and shared it with my friends AND with strangers, even ones I wasn't attracted to at all

What you should never do is buy a drink to someone you haven't even spoken to or barely spoken to and who is clearly not into you. Don't buy a drink just to get someone's attention. You can't buy attention, love or desire.

Paying for a round for a group of friends, a drink for a friend (male or female), a drink for a female AFTER you had a great time together to make the moment last? fuck yes, do it and do it often
It's just 100% normal when you're in a bar or club and had some time with someone to go and buy drinks for the two of you. If she reciprocates that's a solid indicator of interest.

Never be the "hey I paid two drinks for you and you only paid one for me so still you owe me one" guy

No woman is attracted to a guy so cheap he wouldn't buy a drink for a friend

Buying shots for a group (friends of yours + strangers) is also a good way to socialize quick.

I'll gladly pay a drink for someone. He or she does not reciprocate? I'll pay for another. Does not reciprocate? He's out, he's cheap and it only cost me 2 drinks to find out, perfect, I could have learned it later and it would have cost me much more
 
hush said:
???????

Many many times I've made many connections and had awesome nights partially because I bought a bottle and shared it with my friends AND with strangers, even ones I wasn't attracted to at all

What you should never do is buy a drink to someone you haven't even spoken to or barely spoken to and who is clearly not into you. Don't buy a drink just to get someone's attention. You can't buy attention, love or desire.

Paying for a round for a group of friends, a drink for a friend (male or female), a drink for a female AFTER you had a great time together to make the moment last? fuck yes, do it and do it often
It's just 100% normal when you're in a bar or club and had some time with someone to go and buy drinks for the two of you. If she reciprocates that's a solid indicator of interest.

Never be the "hey I paid two drinks for you and you only paid one for me so still you owe me one" guy

No woman is attracted to a guy so cheap he wouldn't buy a drink for a friend

Buying shots for a group (friends of yours + strangers) is also a good way to socialize quick.

I'll gladly pay a drink for someone. He or she does not reciprocate? I'll pay for another. Does not reciprocate? He's out, he's cheap and it only cost me 2 drinks to find out, perfect, I could have learned it later and it would have cost me much more
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Buying stuff to share with my friends is one thing. That's totally normal. Buying stuff for them, that's a different story.

For instance, I brought some drinks to a social gathering, and gave some to my friends. I didn't ask them to venmo me.

I don't know man, if I'm ever with friends, we pay for ourselves. That's just how it's been. Maybe you feel differently, I'm just stating what I'd personally do. If I'm out with friends I don't expect them to pay for stuff, and vice versa.

Maybe once in awhile, but even then, I would expect them to reciprocate at some point. Not even because I care about the money so much, but just out of respect.

In Thrice's case it does sound rather transactional. But clearly he's benefitting from it in other ways, so it doesn't really matter even if that's the case.
 
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