Thrice log. weird saturday night

[Thrice]

Nothing wrong with needing professional help. Admitting it is the first step, and many men don't even make it that far.

I guess that's the truth, thank you Nate

No, not always. Some do, for sure. I'm a decent looking musician. I'm in the same situation as you are.

what kind of situation? What's your height?

I am happy that you realized this yourself because it means that you will likely take action. Please don't be shy about seeking therapy or whatever else you need! I fully agree with natedawg that "a great goal to set from here is to find a good therapist."

Where have you been?

 

[Thrice]

Slghtly above average in the world, average-ish in my country, but taller than the majority of girls. I see guys that are shorter than me get girls. For guys like you and me it's not only about looks anymore.

ok i asked because you're 61kg, I'm trying to get abs and at 67kg i still don't see them because I'm about 6ft but not thick/muscular enough

 

[Thrice]

Decide to take a break, i will keep working out, i will try to out on weekends and approach, will try to control my emotions/anger when girls avoid eye contact

Will look for professional help, will have to look very well and so my research so i don't end up with a therapist that wants to turn me into a feminist because wanting to have sex is toxic

No need to share my mental damage, will only update when i complete an entire task, for example is i get 6 or 7 tinder pics, if i approach a girl and fuck her, stuff like that. No need for small updates when I'm not really going nowhere

Thank you and see you soon!

 

[natedawg]

Decide to take a break, i will keep working out, i will try to out on weekends and approach, will try to control my emotions/anger when girls avoid eye contact

Will look for professional help, will have to look very well and so my research so i don't end up with a therapist that wants to turn me into a feminist because wanting to have sex is toxic

No need to share my mental damage, will only update when i complete an entire task, for example is i get 6 or 7 tinder pics, if i approach a girl and fuck her, stuff like that. No need for small updates when I'm not really going nowhere

Thank you and see you soon!

I don't agree with going away completely. Even those little updates are good just for general accountability to yourself.

I also understand that you gotta do what you gotta do to protect your mental, though.

Just try to stay as close to the fire as you can, so you don't get left in the cold.

 

[Ravi]

Group support, accountability, tracking metrics and internalising principles of success greatly increases likelihood of success.

Some leave the forum, grind, come back and win.

But they're the exception, rather than the rule.

Showing up. Doing the work honestly and effectively, sharing, fine-tuning, and course correcting, is a proven path for success, especially for hardcases.

As a hardcase, you can't trust your brain, you have really poor conditioning and have not yet internalised the correct mindsets and principles for success that will be what will save you in the end.

We turn away from the forum, out of pain, because we're hurt, and it is a threat to our identity and deeply held beliefs - about ourselves, about women, about the world......

JUST when we are about to make a meaningful breakthrough, we leave

This is called "self sabotage"

Your ego defense mechanism.

I think a big piece of the puzzle that many guys miss, that causes inconsistency, is the lack of a real life vision and plan. Because they do not have a deeply evocative and meaningful picture of where they want to be, when it gets tough, they fold.

I think for you, Mo, you need to take the time to really nail down what it is what you want, who you want to be, and where you want to go in the future.

I did this in my log, it's saved on the first post. Having this down, it gave me no way to stop.

I don't blame you for wanting to take a break and get away. I also have moments when I want to bury my head in the sand and just be done with it.

One thing I've learned in life, is that success will only really happen if you are able to pick yourself up off the concrete when your head is splattered on the pavement. It will only really happen if you can be broken down to almost nothing, and find something inside to say "I have chosen this hill. I will die here" and make the 1-second decision to just another step.

IMO, guys who are struggling to break through, need more systems, more processes, more accountability, and more support. There is a reason I was not actually making any meaningful progress, until enough was enough and I began working with Andy 2 years ago. Of course, now, I am going to be a success story in life. But I actually needed that. You will benefit a lot from getting more meaningful support. In your case, therapy, I think is going to support you in getting further along the line.

MAC

 

[Zug]

I agree with what MAC and Nate said, but uhh....I did the opposite too. I also found it really hard to create updates when nothing meaningful happened. There was a long long period I was doing work with almost nothing to show for it. Worked on getting new pics, all sucked. Swiped everywhere, 1 match, no reply to opener. Did all my workouts, lost 0.4 lbs that week. There were A LOT of weeks like that. Solution for me was talking with my accountability partner more instead of posting. Going pure solo would have been bad. I had very few problems committing to what I was doing, but posting shitty updates just made me feel like a loser.

Find someone you can talk to about your goals that's actually in your corner and understand them. I found one good therapist, but he didn't understand ANY of my goals and as good as he was it was useless.

 

[Ravi]

I agree with what MAC and Nate said, but uhh....I did the opposite too. I also found it really hard to create updates when nothing meaningful happened. There was a long long period I was doing work with almost nothing to show for it. Worked on getting new pics, all sucked. Swiped everywhere, 1 match, no reply to opener. Did all my workouts, lost 0.4 lbs that week. There were A LOT of weeks like that. Solution for me was talking with my accountability partner more instead of posting. Going pure solo would have been bad. I had very few problems committing to what I was doing, but posting shitty updates just made me feel like a loser.

Find someone you can talk to about your goals that's actually in your corner and understand them. I found one good therapist, but he didn't understand ANY of my goals and as good as he was it was useless.

Totally agree man.

That's a core tenet of mine, obviously, hence IronWill.

You had a system in place and, importantly, actual accountability.

You, hence, made superb progress and now are back and on track for elite.

Which is what we all expect from you.

100% achievable

MAC

 

[Thrice]

So, after having a couple of emotional breakdowns, the one after seeing girls in the street avoiding eye contact and ended up cutting myself, and another after trying tinder with my 2 best pictures with zero matches after hundred of swipes, i've decided to change antidepressant, i don't to take SSRI's anymore because they kill libido, now i'm taking Wellbutrin which the only antidepressant in the market that boosts libido instead of lowering it

found a way to wake up early, i'm using an app

i have also created an instagram page, the only two pictures i have actually suck, i look sad and out of touch, but i have to start somewhere, i'm using instagram right now to find some guy that wants to hang out on weekends and take pictures, so far i found at least one guy that seems cool

Another problem is that i don't have a good jawline anymore because everytime i have an emotional breakdown i overeat, it sucks because i get so close to full abs and binge on feel good carbs

this is another problem that Wellbutrin will solve because it kills appetite, today i actually had a hard time reaching 1500kcal

bought air force one, now just ordered nike dunk high and converse, the goal is to take good pictures after losing 4/5 pounds and getting good jawline back, pictures looking cool/popular/happy not sad and uncomfortable like i always looked till now

now i need something to do everyday, the most important thing is to find friends and join a social circle, the usual advice is "join a club", i don't know but it seems to me this is the wrost advice ever, only lonely boomers join clubs, i will find a cool guy and a cool social circle like that

my strategy right now is to create a cool instagram page and add people and actually ask them if they want to go out, if the page is cool and the pcitures are cool instagram will start suggesting me to local girls and local guys that actually like to go out

i don't know what to do everyday to keep myself busy, any advice is welcome

edit: example of cool happy guy

https://www.instagram.com/saviodechiara/?hl=en

but i have to be honest, i don't have the balls to take pictures on my own

edit2:

i want to add something i forgot, from now i will dress like a sexy/happy guy everyday, not just to take pictures.
This is my attempt to take ownership and responsibility, if girls avoid eye contact it's also my fault, i dress llike shit to go to work. Will post pictures of my daily outfists, edgy and stylish everyday baby

 

[Ravi]

FUCK YES

So, Wellbutrin is the only f**king drug I've heard good things about. This, is positive news!

I'd say, you would do well to take classes, join a club, and be part of a group.

You need to be accepted and part of a community that values you.

Man, pages of models and shit on IG, I just looked at that dude, and gave no fucks. Some of these dudes are literal retards. They don't matter. No man is better than another man in this world. Believe me. People are just people. They are apes. Nothing special at all. The world is full of successful people who, honestly, aren't much at all. Dont believe the hype. I have several friends with 10 million plus net worth, one is more of an acquaintance but we're cool, he will advise me now and then, and he is coming on my podcast soon - dude's net worth is between 10 - 50 mil I would guess, fucks models regularly, lay count is probably close to 1,000 and he is just a dude like anyone else. Just smart, works hard, and dreams big.

Your real problem, is isolation, lack of meaningful socialiation, lack of deep and fulfilling social bonds and friendships, and that is what needs healing imo

Johan Hari ha a book called Lost Connections, the sociological roots of mental illness. You should real that.

Ravi

 

[Thrice]

I'd say, you would do well to take classes, join a club, and be part of a group.

Thanks Mac!
Hope Wellbutrin work, already like the appetite suppression aspect, can't wait to reveal my abs


I'm trying instagram game for now because I'm not really into classes and clubs, i used to do jiu-jitsu, good guys, half of them are over 40, the most exiting thing they do on weekends is grab a beer, I'm not interested at all, no young girls, no guys that want to go out on weekends to actually approach, not to grab a beer on a pub with people in their 50's

Unless i find clubs and classes with the target people I'm looking for i will try with instagram and tinder

Right now i really would like just to go out and get young girls and get this phase out of my system, not really interested is something that does not help reach this goal, like a jiu-jitsu class for example. If it was full of young people it would be ok but in my area it's not

 

[Ravi]

Bro its more that, you need to normalise your mind

You are mentally ill dude

Like, no girl is "avoiding eye contact"

That is your mental illness

I had similar shit back in the day

You have to heal, and people and friendship, is part of becoming mentally healthy

Chasing young girls, is great. I hit on them daily, have numbers in my phone of hot Uni students, and hustle to get them on date and such. Thats part of life. That, brings with it, a WHOLE LOT of challenges and also suffering.

You need mental health or you have f**k all

 

[Squilliam]

I'm trying instagram game for now because I'm not really into classes and clubs, i used to do jiu-jitsu, good guys, half of them are over 40, the most exiting thing they do on weekends is grab a beer, I'm not interested at all, no young girls, no guys that want to go out on weekends to actually approach, not to grab a beer on a pub with people in their 50's

Unless i find clubs and classes with the target people I'm looking for i will try with instagram and tinder

At your level you should not focus on Instagram. You should work on moving somewhere else if there aren't many young girls in your area. And is there any reason you can't go out approaching on your own? But if you move to a bigger city I'm sure you can find guys in Italy who approach. Isn't daygame more common in Europe than in America?

And you could probably use some therapy too tbh.

 

[Thrice]

At your level you should not focus on Instagram

Why? People connect with ig and use it like a dating app

You should work on moving somewhere else if there aren't many young girls in your area

I can't leave my house where i don't pay the rent and even make some money with airbnb to move somewhere else find a shitty job and pay the rent to a stranger

I don't live in Milan but Parma has a population of 200k with many young girls, i just said that joining clubs and courses full of boomers is not a good way to get the type of social circle. Becoming a dj is, having a cool ig page also, girls like it

And is there any reason you can't go out approaching on your own?

No, i went out alone several times but didn't approach, i pussied out because i was probably the only one by himself without friends, also because some girls were looking at me like I'm a creep

I will work on lowering my bodyfat and try to be the best looking/dressed guy in the club and start approaching. I admit i didn't care of this aspect, i don't even have enough clothes yet

Isn't daygame more common in Europe than in America?

Daygame doesn't exist in europe, it's an american thing, in fact i wouldn't be able to translate "day game" in italian or french or german, it doesn't exist

How do you expect to get laid with young hot girls without tackling that?

It's time to shit or get off the pot

I didn't do it till now because i felt the small town pressure, it's not like london where you approach girls you won't ever see again, but it's not an excuse because i can approach until i exhaust the potential of my 200k in terms of tinder and cold approach, this will allow me to decide if i want to move to a bigger city even if it's not convenient at all, i would have to work as a dishwasher and approach after work, but if it's the only option i will have to do it

My idea is if you're not attractive in a 200k you're not attractive anywhere, girls have the same taste despite the beauty is subjective bullshit, but i will have to move anyway to see what happens when someone at my level of attractiveness plays the number game

London would be great

I have to exhaust the potential of my city first, because moving would be the worst scenario for me, if i had an online job i would be enthusiast about moving but i don't

 

[Ravi]

Homie forget London, that is the worst place for cold approach in the world after NYC, if you're not: (a) white, (b) willing to become a true day game warrior.

Europe, is fantastic for day game.

I am living life in Budapest, and approach 7 days a week. Talking to pretty girls daily, it's fun. I found Poland was also good, Krakow and Warsaw.

The thing is, you evidence the real problems above: you think girls are looking at you like you're a creep, etc, due to trauma and mental health problems.

The dating game, if you're a minority, is going to be a lot of grinding, will be quite rough at the best of times, and will be a multi year journey. If you're not good looking, and not a guy girls naturally like, geuss what, you wiill need to become a fucking CAST IRON MAN, because the game will make you go to extreme lengths for a minuscule crumb of progress, and poof, it's gone.....

You will need to do a tonne of healing man. Like, a tonne. You should find a lot of support, read, study, connect with this sort of community.

People forget, I spent YEARS getting my health and mental health right. You think I am bad now? Should have seen me a few years ago lol.

When guys have deep issues in their mind, this needs to be prioritised.

Mo can make it, but he needs to heal, and develop a lot of mental strength.

It can be done - I myself have to put in extreme grinding, and basically live a life that is WAR, just to get a text, let alone a date, let alone a lay, which I've not had in 9 months.

What we gloss over, is for males whose SMV is lower, and who are not getting preselected (no to few matches, dating is slow as fuck at the best of times), there is a pathway for success, but it is the numbers game on steroids pretty much and a case of endless, endless grinding, endlessly improving, and only seeing fleeting success here and there.

Chris, said these guys should not be approaching. Chris said these guys need to heal.

I agree.

I spent 4 years healing.

I then came here, and became The Godfather of Grinding. I reconstructed myself out of fucking steel.

Essentially, Mo is going to have to do the same thing.

If him getting nothing on the apps caused him a mental breakdown, how will he survive this game? I had NOTHING on the apps for 7-8 months, and even when I got new pics, still got fuckin REKT. I was shadow banned. Now, I am getting a little something. Nothing major, far from anything to write home about, and no dates or anything.

This, requires basically extreme mental strength to withstand the endless shitstorm, year after year.

We need to be careful when advising hardcases.

Mo, can get a girlfriend and find love for himself. But that, will be after proper healing work, and he will need to get to the point when he no longer feels he is being looked at like a creep or girls are avoiding eye contact.

I assure you, none of that is happening, no one is avoiding eye contact, he is just anxious, stressed, and has some mental illness.

If he was chill as FUCK, confident, cool, he'd thrive socially like the rest of us.

I know because I was him, totally fucked in the head, 10 x more mentally ill than he is right now.

I got here and that's atleast something

My 2C

Ravi

 

[Squilliam]

Why? People connect with ig and use it like a dating app

If you can't even get success from online dating, you are not going to get anywhere with Instagram. You are wasting your time with this. You're much better off improving your looks & photos and building a better online profile if you don't want to do cold approach.

The only kinds of guys who actually get consistent girls from Instagram are very high status desirable guys.

You say you want to bang hot girls but what are you actually doing about it? It's not just going to be handed to you.

How badly do you really want it? If you wanted it really badly, you'd do anything to achieve it. From what I can see, you don't want it really badly. You just kind of want it.

It's not going to be easy or comfortable to get there. Nothing worth having in life is easy. This whole focus on instagram to me just seems like an excuse so that you can avoid taking action. If you want to bang hot girls, then you need to go outside and start talking to girls, or you need to improve your online dating profile. Ideally, do both.

 

[natedawg]

Welcome back, man.

Regarding goals, it will come down to what's most important for you. The #1 challenge you will face is trying to change everything at once. Won't happen.

What's most important to you right now? I'd list those out & begin from there.

 

[Thrice]

If you can't even get success from online dating, you are not going to get anywhere with Instagram. You are wasting your time with this. You're much better off improving your looks & photos and building a better online profile if you don't want to do cold approach.

every good picture that would work on tinder is a picture i can use for instagram, so what's the problem?

The only kinds of guys who actually get consistent girls from Instagram are very high status desirable guys.

there's some misunderstanding here, i live in a 200K, you're thinking i want to run "instagram game" a la fresh and fit, i'm not, this is not miami and we don't have the type of girls that fresh and fit interview here

i'm thinking of creating an instagram looking happy, stylish, sexy and with some friends, and thats it, no indicator of status/money level, i'm in a small town and it's not needed, girls will reply if you're attractive enough

the instagram you're talking about is needed in a big american city, not here. here i will just take good pictures for tinder and instagram at the same time, i will have to add add some pictures in cklubs and with friends on intagram to look social and normal, because actually thats what girls use instagram for, to see if you're normal

It's not going to be easy or comfortable to get there. Nothing worth having in life is easy. This whole focus on instagram to me just seems like an excuse so that you can avoid taking action. If you want to bang hot girls, then you need to go outside and start talking to girls, or you need to improve your online dating profile. Ideally, do both.

i will lose this last 4 pounds and go back to take picturs, i want it really bad, i'm ashamed to say that i didn't find the balls to take pictures of myself while people passing by are looking and didn't have balls to approach when i went out alone, even if i want it really bad, so i will set goals and deadlines to do this stuff or die

 

[Thrice]

Welcome back, man

Thank you nate!

What's most important to you right now? I'd list those out & begin from there.

meet a cute girl, date and fuck, to be honest thats my number 1 priority, i'm stuck and i feel the only way to unstuck myself is do it for the first time, only thing is she doesent have to be a 5 or 4 because i would just feel worse, talking from experience

If him getting nothing on the apps caused him a mental breakdown, how will he survive this game? I had NOTHING on the apps for 7-8 months, and even when I got new pics, still got fuckin REKT. I was shadow banned. Now, I am getting a little something. Nothing major, far from anything to write home about, and no dates or anything.

i agree Mac, the way i will heal is expose myself over and over, keep trying new pictures, keep getting rejected, trying tinder with new pics, get zero matches, get broken to pieces, and try again, with a new set of pics

i feel my life is going down the drain, i have energy and anger i want to use, no time for some sort of zen healing, just, get a mental breakdown, try again, until i completely desentesize myself, no sitting at home anymore, unless i'm lifting and stretching

 

[Ravi]

OK Mo.

I do sense a steely determination in your words today.

Remember, you are tougher than you think...............

If you're wanting to go down the exposure therapy route, then you know what to do man. Take it ONE approach at a time, and in time, you will be an approach machine.

R

 

[Thrice]

Last Saturday night was WILD, so i have created my first super shitty instagram pics with only 2 pics with me looking autistic, asked a bunch of people if they wanna hang out and the only guy that enthusiastically said yes is an illegal immigrant

We went in this club and he started approaching like crazy with his broken italian, he drinks and smokes a lot too and does cocaine

After 2 drinks i started approaching too, i only got blow out rudely by a land whale i didn't like anyway, all the others girls were very sweet in telling me they have boyfriends

The forth girls i approached was a smoking hot 21 yo, she was hot as fuck, i just straight up asked her is she wanted to know me and she said yes, this is the first time for me and i didn't know what to say hahahha

Like this girl was very hot, beautiful face, nice legs, when she immediately said yes i didn't know what to say to be honest so i just started to ask the ussual question, where are from blablabla, she said she's from Milan, studied in england and going back to england soon, after that her friends called her and she went on the dance floor with them

I didnt ask her to stay in touch for 2 reasons:

- when you ask girls for watsap they ask for instagram first to see what type of guy you are

- i don't have a good "landing" intagram page where i look "normal" and not autistic yet
https://instagram.com/_momo_.d_?igshid=MzNlNGNkZWQ4Mg==

I have recieved a lot of motivation from this experience, i hate my self for beign autistic and i want to change so bad

The guy i went put with is here from only 3 months and already has a HOT 21 yo girlfriend, and she's italian, before her he had another girlfriend, not italian

So 2 girls in tree months, without papers, without money, without anything, the guy almost drowned to come to Europe

Despite this i still had some blackpill moments thinking about blackpill stuff... Man talk about trauma..

This is more than enough proof the limits are in my head


Even if I'm 99% that the hot Girls wasent attracted and just wanted to talk because it was a wild night for everydoby i still had fun talking to her, felt somewhat validated, felt really good getting so close to a girl that hot

I bought phenibut from predatornutrition, it should give me the same social freedom without alcohol

Now i have to do two things:

-go out and approach on weekend with or without a partner, it's 10 times more fun with friends, but if i want to improve my life i have to go out every weekend

-take pictures for online datind and instagram, for all those girls who want to see you on ig before giving their watsap, what stopped me here is also the fact that i don't have a friend to take pictures with

If i don't improve i will only have myself to blame

Some pictures of my current style, Saturday night i had the iron maiden shirt

You already look good and have good pics so in my mind the only things left are to move if necessary and then hit OLD and approaching and night game hardcore.

My only 2 limits are taking pictures alone and going out alone, need to grow some balls because it's a matter of life and death