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Mav's Log

Age doesn't really play much of a role. There's 21 years old's way ahead of either you or I. There's 40 year old's way behind us. I freak out about my age a bit as well "If I only I did it when I was 28 not 30". It;s silly though, it's like asking if you want to live to 76 years old or 78 years old. A decade only makes up 13% of your entire life.
 
play_time_is_over said:
Age doesn't really play much of a role. There's 21 years old's way ahead of either you or I. There's 40 year old's way behind us. I freak out about my age a bit as well "If I only I did it when I was 28 not 30". It;s silly though, it's like asking if you want to live to 76 years old or 78 years old. A decade only makes up 13% of your entire life.
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Yeah that makes sense. Sometimes I'll tell myself Ill just have to work 4x as hard to try to make up for lost time then end up spinning my wheels for months. Age does play a large role in looks obviously.

I really would like to do the AA program but I mean look at me lol. Whether it's true or not, I know I'm not worthy. Even if a girl sleeps with me, unless she's not that desirable, I know it's only a matter of time until I get replaced on Tinder or wherever. From my point of view, unattractive, short, weird/extremely socially awkward (numerous people all saying the same things my whole life) guy walking up to 10-20 women a day at the mall, starting out saying hey, progressing to saying weird things like "would you fuck me". I know how people would react to this...
 
Are you depressed Mav ?

Serious question.

I mean this with respect man.

It seems like you've been shooting down everybody whose been giving you really solid advice.

I mean if you want to improve that's one thing. If you want to complain that's another.

To me this seems like 1 of 2 things.

(1) You need some professional help to deal with your issues.

(2) You're secretly trying to get permission and acceptance for not trying.

If it's #1. Respect. That's tough shit. But you NEED. NEED. NEEEEEEED to take care of that. Anything else you do or say on this forum WILL be fruitless because your not physiologically capable of dealing with this stuff. I'm not over exaggerating here. I used to be a counselor any big goal you try to achieve while you're in a deep depression will not go anywhere UNTIL you deal with the depression first. There is no way around this. This is a tough truth you will need to accept and act on.

If it's #2. I'm literally going to ignore everything you say. And so will everyone else (eventually). I won't hate you, but you're proving it's a waste of time to talk to you. I mean that respectfully. Why would anyone comment, if youre training them to believe that everything they say to you will be shot down?

It's up to you to help yourself. We're just a bunch of text on a screen. The cavalry won't come to save you. Reinforcements aren't coming. You have to make some decisions on what you will do to help yourself.

It's not a fun fact of life. But it is true. So I'm trying to tell you this so you can go on and live the life you want. Whatever that is.

You NEED to take responsibility for making you're life better.
 
Manganiello said:
Are you depressed @Mav ?

Serious question.

I mean this with respect man.

It seems like you've been shooting down everybody whose been giving you really solid advice.

I mean if you want to improve that's one thing. If you want to complain that's another.

To me this seems like 1 of 2 things.

(1) You need some professional help to deal with your issues.

(2) You're secretly trying to get permission and acceptance for not trying.

If it's #1. Respect. That's tough shit. But you NEED. NEED. NEEEEEEED to take care of that. Anything else you do or say on this forum WILL be fruitless because your not physiologically capable of dealing with this stuff. I'm not over exaggerating here. I used to be a counselor any big goal you try to achieve while you're in a deep depression will not go anywhere UNTIL you deal with the depression first. There is no way around this. This is a tough truth you will need to accept and act on.

If it's #2. I'm literally going to ignore everything you say. And so will everyone else (eventually). I won't hate you, but you're proving it's a waste of time to talk to you. I mean that respectfully. Why would anyone comment, if youre training them to believe that everything they say to you will be shot down?

It's up to you to help yourself. We're just a bunch of text on a screen. The cavalry won't come to save you. Reinforcements aren't coming. You have to make some decisions on what you will do to help yourself.

It's not a fun fact of life. But it is true. So I'm trying to tell you this so you can go on and live the life you want. Whatever that is.

You NEED to take responsibility for making you're life better.
Click to expand...

Off and on depressed and when it's off, it's just to a much lesser extent. I've been to numerous psychologists in the past who haven't seemed to be able to help and I was tired of throwing money into the proverbial abyss when I have debt to pay off, because it's insanely expensive. If you have another suggestion I'd be happy to hear it. Trust me, I wish more than anything I could have the things I want.
 
My only other suggestion is find another psychologist. That's it.

ITS THE ONLY WAY.


Line up consultations til you find a therapist that clicks with you. Find a therapist you look up to and want to earn their respect. That's the only piece of useful advice I can give at this point.

I'll expect to hear progress on that front.
 
Manganiello said:
My only other suggestion is find another psychologist. That's it.

ITS THE ONLY WAY.


Line up consultations til you find a therapist that clicks with you. Find a therapist you look up to and want to earn their respect. That's the only piece of useful advice I can give at this point.

I'll expect to hear progress on that front.
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How will it help if it can't fix the things Im most fundamentally unhappy with. That's the thing I never understood about it... And they just tell me I'm fine, I'm normal, I'm at least average looking, etc. when I know these arent true. Not one of the people I went to even explained cbt to me lol. Maybe need something mind altering like meds to trick me into think my problems arent as bad as they are. Or something else. Was going to do ayahuasca in peru but then covid hit.
 
Manganiello said:
See point #2.

I'm going silent til you post positive results from actions you took.
Click to expand...

5 Psychologists and $3000 isn't trying? Alright... please do silent me.
 
Greatly appreciate that, really, but I don't want to waste your time by taking a discount. I did also put that you should be depressed if your life sucks. That's still true. Besides a few very very minor blips here and there, it has sucked the last 16+ years. Just pretty sure at this point, nothing is ever going to work out. No friends, extremely limited dating options, no real family, no career, hate the way I look, really socially awkward/unlikeable, etc. Each one of these points feels next to impossible to fix on their own, but stacked together, are. If I could push a button and end it, I totally would but unfortunately it's not that easy. Think this would be best for everyone, I'd stop wasting people's time and would be at peace.
 
Oversleeping, overeating, acting like I'm working all day at work. Haven't packed one box and I have to move in a few days. Haven't worked out in over a week. I just don't really see a point to any of this. All to what, maybe sleep with a few new girls I'm not really into and watch while others get the things I've always wanted. Sad.
 
You're living with roomates right ?
You sure you don't want to stay with them a while longer ?
 
I don't know the half of your struggle, but I can relate to some of it. here's a message from one 5'4 short king to another, about how things have gone for me (so far) and how I hope they'll go for you. this is probably really rambly and incoherent, but I hope that part of it is helpful.

first things first, I want to say that at least to some degree I know how you feel bro. feeling like you've wasted years. nothing is going right. you get on a dating app and every 4th message you see is "short men are disgusting, how dare they EVEN presume". meanwhile everywhere around you the world gets to enjoy companionship, fulfillment, camaraderie. you are an outsider looking in on parts of the human experience that seem completely out of reach. every corner of mainstream social media tells you that if you're not able to participate in this thing people call "normal life", it's because something's wrong with YOU. like it's somehow all your fault. the shit is fucking dehumanizing. it's no wonder you're feeling beaten down, alienated, cast out. how could you ever endear yourself to a a world that hates and mistrusts you by default?

I'm going to assume that's your starting point. that's what mine was.

the most important thing is to take a step. ANY STEP in a direction you want to go. find SOMETHING that's under your control, and goddamnit, control it. your mission is to take that one thing and fucking own it to the best of your current ability. the goal isn't to make a huge move right now and change your life. that's way too big to start out. before you can do that, you need to know what it feels like to move an inch closer to something you want, and KNOW that you are TRULY that inch closer. that you changed your circumstances for the better, even if you won't reap the rewards any time soon.

why is this important? because you are a very long way away from where you want to be. that much is already obvious to you. but here's a secret: you have your whole life to get there. not one year, not 10 years, your entire motherfucking life. if it takes 20 years to get to where you want, well guess what, at the end of that 20 years if you put in the work, you're fucking there.

step two, once you have made any step in any direction, is to write down some goals. my suggestion is to pick some things that have well-known paths to completion, where the ENTIRE path is within your control. I'll write down some good first goals and some bad ones:

good goals:
- get a 6-pack
- get a 225lb bench press
- be a competitively hireable employee in X industry
- reach out to N girls in M days in a POSITIVE way

bad goals:
- set a world record in X sport
- get a job paying Y dollars
- get laid Z times

even if the bad goals are what you really want, you're not ready for them yet. you need to pick paths that others have walked in front of you, because you're not ready to blaze a new trail yet. find things that are approachable in a 6-12 month time frame.

pick one, MAYBE two good goals and work towards them. you don't need to do it every day at the start, but push yourself to do a bit more this week than you did last week, until you're at least doing something 4-5x/week. does this sound like you're barely doing anything? well, you are barely doing anything. but it is STILL a huge step from doing nothing or moving backwards.

once you hit some of your first goals, replace them with new ones that are just a bit further out of reach for you. keep going SLOWLY. always go SLOWLY if you can. NEVER rush. if you do, you will overreach, fall short, and get discouraged. it's SUPPOSED to take a long ass time.

My personal recommendation is to not worry at all about your dating life at first. you need to start moving the other parts of your life first. like you said, sleeping with a few girls you're not really into isn't going to fix things. might as well skip that part and find other things that make you happy first. once you're on your path, like TRULY unshakeably on it, you can start introducing other people into the equation.

one last thing you'll need to do is shake the belief that you are unfixable. the human body and brain are incredible, breathtaking, complex, resilient machines. it took a lot of years to fuck yourself, and it will take a lot of years to unfuck yourself, but you can do it. your progress will be invisible at times, but you have to trust that you're making it. I get the sense you're trying things just to tick them off your checklist and say they don't work. you need to believe that eventually something will work. as long as you keep that belief going, eventually you will succeed.

finally, you probably need some social interaction to help keep you grounded and sane. I recommend you start here on the forums. there are a lot of people here who understand where you're coming from and are rooting for you already. it's a safe place. eventually you'll want to branch out into real life, but internet friends can carry you through the darkest of times.

it seems like Andy's facebook group is really tight-knit, and I see them encouraging each other and trading notes on these forums all the time. that seems like a really positive thing to have in your life, so if you have the money to spare I'd strongly recommend it.

----

addendum 1:

That's what I am doing, anyway. Somewhere along the way, I started to enjoy the actual process of putting in the work. You can have a look at my log if you'd like. I'm so fucking far away from where I want to be, but I'm happier than I've ever been because every day I come another inch closer. I'm not expecting to get there for at least 10-15 more years. shit takes time.

I think you'll find that the same will happen to you. There is immeasurable satisfaction in going to bed tired, but knowing you're a little bit further ahead today than you were yesterday.

addendum 2:

I will tell you this preview about dating as a short man: I'm finding that it's not nearly as big a deal as I once thought it was. yes, there are tons of women out there who will never give you a second look, but there are plenty who don't care and even a solid number who PREFER shorter men. really! the same is true for bald men. I was shocked to find it, but it's true. yeah, some tall people slay wayyyyy more than me, but I don't need their level of success to be happy. I expect that you don't either.

my hypothesis is that people can tell when you're unshakeable and resilient, and you go to bed happy with yourself every night. and they're very receptive to that. more so than they are un-receptive to any physical feature. so your goal is to build up to that mental state first.

is it true that all else equal, a version of you that is 4 inches taller, with a thicker head of hear and nicer facial features would do way better in the dating market? absolutely. it's your job to make the things unequal. you're not allowed to lament the things you can't change, until you've changed all the things you can.
 
Appreciate the post. I just don't see the point anymore and anytime I'm on a good streak, making progress, I end up getting depressed again and relapsing... going back to square one. Anything can cause it. People talking shit about me behind my back at work, being mocked out in public, realizing I don't have any friends, the way I look, knowing I'll never get to date the kind of girls I'd want, comparing myself to most other guys I see, social anxiety, etc. Then I just don't care anymore and don't see a point. Like I have done only 15 minutes of real work, all day at work today. Usually I can get at least the bare minimum done. Too many obstacles/issues/glass ceilings. Only thing I can think of that might help is SSRI's or something similar to kind of take the edge off and let me be a bit less depressed. I can't just "outwill" my issues. That has never worked.
 
I'll try and talk briefly about the things you mentioned:

> People talking shit about me behind my back at work, being mocked out in public

Hard to see this in the short term, but none of that needs to matter. those people's opinions are only worth the attention you choose to give them. you can always find new people, unless you don't plan to ever move.

> realizing I don't have any friends

That's a bit mean to all the people in this thread, innit?

speaking genuinely, I think you'll find that the friends sort themselves out somewhere along the way. but until that happens, you have a community of like-minded people right here.

> the way I look, knowing I'll never get to date the kind of girls I'd want, comparing myself to most other guys I see,

Neither of us will ever be Chris Hemsworth or equivalent. That's the way of the world. There are some things that other people get to experience that you don't, through no fault of yours or merit of theirs. But just because other people have a higher ceiling than you, doesn't mean that your ceiling is low.

> Like I have done only 15 minutes of real work, all day at work today

Something I want to touch on that I forgot to in the original post is the need for self-forgiveness. Finding a genuine way to let go of any single day's failures will help you a lot, because all streaks inevitably come to an end, and you need to be able to find a way to pick back up after failure. I can feel your self-hate in this sentence. I remember that same feeling myself. I don't have great advice on how to let it go, other than that therapy helped me. But it wasn't a quick fix. It probably took 2-3 years, and I didn't actually notice or have a singular "aha" moment after which my depression went away. Just a long time and lots of incremental improvements to my mental health. it's just like any other aspect of life in that way. The point I'm trying to make is that there's a blueprint for you to follow. You don't need to reinvent the wheel, but when the path is shown to you, you have to ignore the deluge of reasons to reject it that attack your brain.

> I can't just "outwill" my issues. That has never worked.

A good habit only needs to stick once to change everything forever. I spent the last 8 years lifting for 2 weeks and then giving up. Probably tried like 30 times to build the habit. Succeeded once about a year ago, but that's all it takes. 30 failures, one success. once you succeed at one thing, the next thing takes a lot less will. You're on the wrong end of the snowball right now, but every subsequent step is easier than the last. you haven't experienced it yet, so the idea is probably unfathomable to you, but others will corroborate it.

> Only thing I can think of that might help is SSRI's or something similar to kind of take the edge off and let me be a bit less depressed

this might be a viable solution. I want to stress that even if SSRI's help, a lot of work will be involved. it's inescapable. the only way to know is to give them a try, see if they help.

-----

I tried to address your specific points, but ultimately the specifics probably don't matter. I can tell from the head-space you're currently in, you'll find more points to counter mine. I understand that in the end these are your demons and I'm only writing as an outsider - I'll never have the full picture. My primary recommendation is to find one thing inside your locus of control and focus on doing your best at it. doesn't matter what it is.

I'm probably not going to make another post in this thread for a while, but know that I'll be reading along and rooting for you. best of luck, bro.
 
Mav If you were being 100% charitable to yourself. If an angel came down to earth and could only say nice things about you...

What would they say?

They would say a TON of positive stuff.

What do you think they would say about you?
 
I honestly can't come up with much. There aren't many good things to say. I would be lying if I came up with things, just to answer your question. That's pretty typical for me, not just because I'm in a bad mood.
 
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