- Joined
- Jan 19, 2021
kratjeuh said:MakingAComeback said:I DID NOT make myself attractive, I just improved myself from where I was. Attractive people DO NOT have to struggle so much to sleep wth 3s, 4s and the odd 5. Attractive people do not approach 1000 girls to absolutely no avail. I could expound further, but we already know this to be the case and no one who knows me would suggest I became attractive. That happens to be OK - even if I was far worse than I am, I would still keep trying.
I will keep improving myself, but I will have to remind us of the basics of dating success: to succeed in the SMP, you'll need to be a 7 physically, or have the potential to be one with a few years of extreme work.
Right now, I am physically about a 5. I'll upload a vlog and you'll see. And that is why I get what I get and my reality is what it is ;-)
I think we as men should express ourselves and share our opinion and have it totally respested. So I will thank you for your point and tell you that I do agree, but only for people with moderate to high SMV.
For the low SMV male, it is an entirely different reality. People show enormous ignorance in glossing over this fact and I can lose patience at times. I do not argue, rather I just like to agree, nod, smile and move on to other topics......
We can agree to disagree, but one thing though:
Sorry to be so blunt, is that you suggest it is possible for a low SMV male to "sky rocket" their results with women and this IMO is challenging and could cause harm. I know you're trying to help man, and you are a good poster, but you should be careful when you say things like this dude. I'd consider a different pharseology, like telling people their results may get better, rather than putting it like this.
You will give people false hope, raise expectations, and they WILL get bruised man. Be mindful of that.
I can assure you that a quantum leap of this sort is not humanly possible. Nothing can produce dramatic results as you describe. Possibly extensive plastic surgery that would require a year in the hospital recovering from, lol, but I can assure you as a guy who lost 83 fucking lbs and has taken more action than basically anyone on this website: there is no magic bullet or fix that can unlock abundance. All you can do is keep working on your looks and game, and you'll potentially expand your market share by a certain amount. Thereafter, you'll see what's available to you. If you want it, it's there, if you don't, you can make the judgement call. Looks, ultimately, kill in this game. Period.
Abundance requires certain characteristics. It's the law of the Universe, and there are ways to be an outlier: psychopathy, total lack of empathy, dark triad traits. These can enable men to have levels of confidence and charisma that are outside the norm and hence win. Otherwise, likelihood is, what is possible is likely to be not too dissimilar from the bullshit that I get.
The examples people showed me, were invariably a lot better looking than me and had a far greater level of SMV ;-) People show their limited thinking in this regard all the time and it is quite amusing to me.
Guys who have higher SMV often share the perspective you did - "it's all in your head bro".
To an extent, it is, yes. You adopt a better mentality and continue to push.
But the outcomes remain quite a bitter and sordid grind. Anyone who has read this log knows the truth of how the SMP function for those whose SMV is inherently lower. It often baffles me that many men appear to be unable to understand that dating is sincerely a total shitshow for many men in this world.
An idea that will explain this well is product: market fitment. Concepts like this explain my own experience well and shed light on how things work differently for different people and is something I would encourage more to be open minded about.
Beliefs DO NOT change product market fit, will not produce any better conversion from dates, will not produce more or better matches.
Action and self improvement do. The self improvement that matters is looks & game.
Tried, tested a thousand plus times. Literally.
MAC
I agree, based on looks I think we all have our ceiling. We have control over our bodies, our style, and the way we take care of ourselves and to a certain extent, we can improve our faces. There are even options for surgery, I'm not against simple stuff like fillers, I do think doing big surgical changes aren't worth the risk. At a certain point, we must accept the truth and find other routes.
Sounds miserable but it's not. With an elite body, good style, and sexy confidence, everyone has the power to become a 6. Person A is born a 6 or higher, person B might have to work 5 years for it. Most people don't want to work for it and most people who are born attractive, won't maintain that level.
Just by being religious about working on your looks, you can achieve good success. A 6/10 woman in terms of looks is still pretty. No, she won't win any model awards and she won't get paid for posting pics on Instagram, but she is still a girl with a pretty face and a nice body.
Now I know that your ethnicity plays a disadvantage but I want to show you the other side of the coin. There are always girls who prefer a certain type of man. Your archetype is generally less desired. Now what does that do? People of your ethnicity are more likely to give up, making you even more unique. That few percent of girls that really like your archetype have an even lower pool to fish so you stand out. Being someone's exact archetype gives you the chance to date up.
This is your advantage over someone like me. You might say I look more attractive and have a preferable race but my competition is also much stronger. White men know that percentage wise they are more desired so a bigger percentage is willing to play the game. It's generally easier for us to date and get laid, it's tougher for us to date up.
I do agree with this post and think it is the correct approach. Smart, well-thought through, reasonable. Makes logical sense to me - I like it. I see what you mean with the idea that competition is stronger for you, but I am not sure it's it is likely to be a barrier: it's not about being the best and beating your competition, it's about being passable. You'll still be passable for most chicks and hence dating should be easy mode for you - if it's not, it'll be down to "head issues" which whilst significant, are a different problem to an SMV problem. They can be crippling and I have a lot of them also.
Minor disagreement aside, you're generally sound with your thinking here.
I think with a tonne of work and sticking at it for a few years, a guy can improve physically perhaps enough to get to about a 6/6.5 as you say. That SHOULD be enough to get a girl who is around a 6 - maybe. Nothing is guaranteed and you only have a puncher's chance. With enough grinding sometimes you get lucky, even though we'e just friends, L is a pretty and desirable girl and is super nice to me: when her best friend called her on Sunday when we were hanging out, she replied all giddy and excited "I'm with Ravi at the moment", things like this prove that it is possible to get lucky and find a gal who does see you as having something to you, but it will happen through deep self improvement, study of game as if it is a religion, gym, and just brutal consistency. Luck is a big element - remember I did this DAILY for almost 2 years. That was huge levels of effort and eventually, I got a series of dates with a gal wherein mutual friendzoning occurred.
Product:Market fit matters a lot as you convey here about an inherently smaller pool - both girls who went on 2nd dates with me liked my archetype. Thus, confirming my thesis - it all does boil down to your offer, which is composed of product & game.
Ultimately, it is a grim situation and if I didn't want to have children I wouldn't even bother lol.
It isn't all misery though, with concrete improvements across the key metrics, there are improvements in outcomes, though marginal. The girls I am talking to ARE better than the very unattractive ones I mostly dealt with in this journey, that was because I got help with my profile and made changes. They're nothing to write home about, like I said, they're 5s which are not going to stir much in you and leave you feeling very MEH but it beats the 3s and 4s I mostly dealt with.
Let's just be clear about a few things:
My ethnicity is a big disadvantage, yes, but not only that, it's facial structure, overall appearance, the subtle things that nature has to bless you with in order for your looks to be able to pass the looks threshold - some guys can be brown but have good enough looks to make it work. I found that I was not that type of person, how girls respond to you gives you all you need to know.
The lowest SMV males on planet earth ARE brown men (Indian, and so on). That said, they can still succeed providing their looks are good enough and they can develop game. No one is here crying about it, I have no time for excuse making cunts. Just because something is going to be harder is no impedient. If one will have to go on 50-100 dates to finally run into a gal who will give him a chance vs someone who will only need to go on 5-10, does that mean person A should give up? No, IMO.
Your point about this experience eventually becoming a strength is true. The positive: you are forced to evolve into something that is beyond what most human beings have any concept for. Pressure can make a diamond imo.
Good post.
MAC