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YEAR 3: THE IRONWILL PROJECT: MONEY, MUSCLES, MINDSET - FROM NOTHING TO SOMETHING, MY RELENTLESS JOURNEY

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kratjeuh said:
MakingAComeback said:
I DID NOT make myself attractive, I just improved myself from where I was. Attractive people DO NOT have to struggle so much to sleep wth 3s, 4s and the odd 5. Attractive people do not approach 1000 girls to absolutely no avail. I could expound further, but we already know this to be the case and no one who knows me would suggest I became attractive. That happens to be OK - even if I was far worse than I am, I would still keep trying.

I will keep improving myself, but I will have to remind us of the basics of dating success: to succeed in the SMP, you'll need to be a 7 physically, or have the potential to be one with a few years of extreme work.

Right now, I am physically about a 5. I'll upload a vlog and you'll see. And that is why I get what I get and my reality is what it is ;-)

I think we as men should express ourselves and share our opinion and have it totally respested. So I will thank you for your point and tell you that I do agree, but only for people with moderate to high SMV.

For the low SMV male, it is an entirely different reality. People show enormous ignorance in glossing over this fact and I can lose patience at times. I do not argue, rather I just like to agree, nod, smile and move on to other topics......

We can agree to disagree, but one thing though:

Sorry to be so blunt, is that you suggest it is possible for a low SMV male to "sky rocket" their results with women and this IMO is challenging and could cause harm. I know you're trying to help man, and you are a good poster, but you should be careful when you say things like this dude. I'd consider a different pharseology, like telling people their results may get better, rather than putting it like this.

You will give people false hope, raise expectations, and they WILL get bruised man. Be mindful of that.

I can assure you that a quantum leap of this sort is not humanly possible. Nothing can produce dramatic results as you describe. Possibly extensive plastic surgery that would require a year in the hospital recovering from, lol, but I can assure you as a guy who lost 83 fucking lbs and has taken more action than basically anyone on this website: there is no magic bullet or fix that can unlock abundance. All you can do is keep working on your looks and game, and you'll potentially expand your market share by a certain amount. Thereafter, you'll see what's available to you. If you want it, it's there, if you don't, you can make the judgement call. Looks, ultimately, kill in this game. Period.

Abundance requires certain characteristics. It's the law of the Universe, and there are ways to be an outlier: psychopathy, total lack of empathy, dark triad traits. These can enable men to have levels of confidence and charisma that are outside the norm and hence win. Otherwise, likelihood is, what is possible is likely to be not too dissimilar from the bullshit that I get.

The examples people showed me, were invariably a lot better looking than me and had a far greater level of SMV ;-) People show their limited thinking in this regard all the time and it is quite amusing to me.

Guys who have higher SMV often share the perspective you did - "it's all in your head bro".

To an extent, it is, yes. You adopt a better mentality and continue to push.

But the outcomes remain quite a bitter and sordid grind. Anyone who has read this log knows the truth of how the SMP function for those whose SMV is inherently lower. It often baffles me that many men appear to be unable to understand that dating is sincerely a total shitshow for many men in this world.

An idea that will explain this well is product: market fitment. Concepts like this explain my own experience well and shed light on how things work differently for different people and is something I would encourage more to be open minded about.

Beliefs DO NOT change product market fit, will not produce any better conversion from dates, will not produce more or better matches.

Action and self improvement do. The self improvement that matters is looks & game.

Tried, tested a thousand plus times. Literally.

MAC

I agree, based on looks I think we all have our ceiling. We have control over our bodies, our style, and the way we take care of ourselves and to a certain extent, we can improve our faces. There are even options for surgery, I'm not against simple stuff like fillers, I do think doing big surgical changes aren't worth the risk. At a certain point, we must accept the truth and find other routes.

Sounds miserable but it's not. With an elite body, good style, and sexy confidence, everyone has the power to become a 6. Person A is born a 6 or higher, person B might have to work 5 years for it. Most people don't want to work for it and most people who are born attractive, won't maintain that level.

Just by being religious about working on your looks, you can achieve good success. A 6/10 woman in terms of looks is still pretty. No, she won't win any model awards and she won't get paid for posting pics on Instagram, but she is still a girl with a pretty face and a nice body.

Now I know that your ethnicity plays a disadvantage but I want to show you the other side of the coin. There are always girls who prefer a certain type of man. Your archetype is generally less desired. Now what does that do? People of your ethnicity are more likely to give up, making you even more unique. That few percent of girls that really like your archetype have an even lower pool to fish so you stand out. Being someone's exact archetype gives you the chance to date up.

This is your advantage over someone like me. You might say I look more attractive and have a preferable race but my competition is also much stronger. White men know that percentage wise they are more desired so a bigger percentage is willing to play the game. It's generally easier for us to date and get laid, it's tougher for us to date up.

I do agree with this post and think it is the correct approach. Smart, well-thought through, reasonable. Makes logical sense to me - I like it. I see what you mean with the idea that competition is stronger for you, but I am not sure it's it is likely to be a barrier: it's not about being the best and beating your competition, it's about being passable. You'll still be passable for most chicks and hence dating should be easy mode for you - if it's not, it'll be down to "head issues" which whilst significant, are a different problem to an SMV problem. They can be crippling and I have a lot of them also.

Minor disagreement aside, you're generally sound with your thinking here.

I think with a tonne of work and sticking at it for a few years, a guy can improve physically perhaps enough to get to about a 6/6.5 as you say. That SHOULD be enough to get a girl who is around a 6 - maybe. Nothing is guaranteed and you only have a puncher's chance. With enough grinding sometimes you get lucky, even though we'e just friends, L is a pretty and desirable girl and is super nice to me: when her best friend called her on Sunday when we were hanging out, she replied all giddy and excited "I'm with Ravi at the moment", things like this prove that it is possible to get lucky and find a gal who does see you as having something to you, but it will happen through deep self improvement, study of game as if it is a religion, gym, and just brutal consistency. Luck is a big element - remember I did this DAILY for almost 2 years. That was huge levels of effort and eventually, I got a series of dates with a gal wherein mutual friendzoning occurred.

Product:Market fit matters a lot as you convey here about an inherently smaller pool - both girls who went on 2nd dates with me liked my archetype. Thus, confirming my thesis - it all does boil down to your offer, which is composed of product & game.

Ultimately, it is a grim situation and if I didn't want to have children I wouldn't even bother lol.

It isn't all misery though, with concrete improvements across the key metrics, there are improvements in outcomes, though marginal. The girls I am talking to ARE better than the very unattractive ones I mostly dealt with in this journey, that was because I got help with my profile and made changes. They're nothing to write home about, like I said, they're 5s which are not going to stir much in you and leave you feeling very MEH but it beats the 3s and 4s I mostly dealt with.

Let's just be clear about a few things:

My ethnicity is a big disadvantage, yes, but not only that, it's facial structure, overall appearance, the subtle things that nature has to bless you with in order for your looks to be able to pass the looks threshold - some guys can be brown but have good enough looks to make it work. I found that I was not that type of person, how girls respond to you gives you all you need to know.

The lowest SMV males on planet earth ARE brown men (Indian, and so on). That said, they can still succeed providing their looks are good enough and they can develop game. No one is here crying about it, I have no time for excuse making cunts. Just because something is going to be harder is no impedient. If one will have to go on 50-100 dates to finally run into a gal who will give him a chance vs someone who will only need to go on 5-10, does that mean person A should give up? No, IMO.

Your point about this experience eventually becoming a strength is true. The positive: you are forced to evolve into something that is beyond what most human beings have any concept for. Pressure can make a diamond imo.

Good post.

MAC
 
Hedon said:
MakingAComeback said:
I DID NOT make myself attractive, I just improved myself from where I was. Attractive people DO NOT have to struggle so much to sleep wth 3s, 4s and the odd 5. Attractive people do not approach 1000 girls to absolutely no avail. I could expound further, but we already know this to be the case and no one who knows me would suggest I became attractive. That happens to be OK - even if I was far worse than I am, I would still keep trying.

I will keep improving myself, but I will have to remind us of the basics of dating success: to succeed in the SMP, you'll need to be a 7 physically, or have the potential to be one with a few years of extreme work.

Right now, I am physically about a 5. I'll upload a vlog and you'll see. And that is why I get what I get and my reality is what it is ;-)

Hey bro I've been reading your log and as a fellow british-asian guy who struggled with girls growing up and lost virginity later than my friends I can empathise with yourself.

I agree with what you've mentioned above about SMV and the importance of being attractive. I think though you should fully internalise your looks baseline are only the starting point of your SMV, not your final potential.

Your miles away from the potential you could reach. For instance, for your physique imagine if you continued getting lean then used certain enhancers like Testosterone, Superdrol etc to reach an elite body.

Imagine the impact on your SMV if you had full tattoo sleeves on both arms whilst adding some designer pieces into your style. e.g. a Prada cross body bag, Valentino trainers, Canada Goose parka etc.

As kratjeuh briefly mentioned above there are also more options, for example a lot of male models and influencers use things like cheekbone and jaw fillers. You can even get fat removed directly from the face using small canula lipo. Botox can be used to kill wrinkles whilst also improving the eye area, None of these things are super expensive or take a long time to recover.

Speaking from experience, I know as a tall brown guy, you have a lot of potential. If you put your look together in the right way, you can be most girls ideal type through naturally having the darker features (eyes, hair, skin) to look edgy and be the 'bad boy' that most girls want.

Thanks man. I appreciate you reading this log, means a lot so thanks for taking the time.

Yeah man, I am willing to do all this:

-Full sleeves
-Facial surgeries

Not steroids though as that will impact sperm count and fertility and I want a very natural birth for my children if I am able to pull this fucking journey off!

I understand that will be part of my future and there will be appointments with surgeons scheduled in 2024. But right now, hardcore physique development will have to be the focus.

Frankly, bro, I will stop at nothing and if you ever meet me, I am one of the most psychotic hard workers ever and am mega-consistent. If you've read the log you may know I am a bit of a robot (possibly autism) and am programmed to just press forward with a machine.

But your post is good.

Right now, my looks are fucking trash and I do not blame women for not wanting to be around me (apart from L who for some reason does like being around me).

And yes this is where I am, RIGHT NOW, but this time next year if I work myself like a demon, I will look better. That is OK!

Thanks for your post and I hope you post on the forum more regularly - you are welcome to post on my log any time and I would like to learn more about you.

Ravi
 
WEEK 51: THE PHOENIX PROJECT

TUESDAY 29/11/20222

ACTIONS
(1) Dating: Lead Gen / Messaging
(2) Body: Core / Gym: Back & Biceps / Stretch / Posture
(3) Biz/Copy
Others: Self Improvement, Video testimonial for A, Case study for A, Copy for A, Andy call

(1) Self-Improvement
-Reading (DONE)
-Sunrise (DONE)
-Mindset (DONE)
-Myofunctional Therapy (DONE)
-CT (15m) (DONE)
-Light (10m) (DONE)
-Earthing (30m) (DONE)

(2) Biz
-Accountability
-Copywriting

(3) Body
-Core
-Gym: Back & Biceps
(Shops)
(Dinner)

NOTES:

Morning BW: 194.6 (Goal: Improve physique, add muscle, lose fat). I am curious to see what I look like at 185lbs and I also want to see my face without fat on it!

Approach:
3 Daily habits
-Posting morning scale weight on The Dom’s group chat
-OMAD (2300kcal, high protein & fat, low carb) post meal and macro breakdown on cronometer over on the group chat(s)
-Weights & Cardio

Accountability, daily, with The Dom & Paw.

I will hammer my physique and post photos of my body EVERY SUNDAY on the 2 group chats I use (NO BRAINS CREW & Dirty Dogs). I will also share with the Euro Gang and Andy’s group.

With a fantastic physique, tattoos, my hair transplant fully grown (if I need another one, so be it) and improvements in game I think I should have access to a better situation. It’ll take a few years and that’s cool.

I will see my boys, have dinner together (OMAD for me) and watch the England game.

POSITIVE SELF TALK,
MAC
 
Just to add...........

It is important to support free and open debate, and also show respect to each other – we are in this together, and we should disagree in a very productive sense because otherwise, we run the risk of stifling discussion and debate. We also run an even worse risk which is stopping guys from engaging with the forum, which is totally unacceptable because they miss out on self-improvement which could change their life.

Even though there are posters whose opinions I personally do not share and agree with, that does not mean that their contribution is not valuable, and furthermore, does not mean they are wrong.

Furthermore, I also do not wish to discourage people from improving themselves. Just because this is a very hard experience for some, and is a big risk for low SMV guys, it is still a good avenue to explore and is the only thing that will actually work. Better to have a go for a few years and see. I will never guarantee anyone that they can get the dating life they want, because that isn't true. But, you can make some sort of improvement. I did. And that's great.

Thanks for your posts everyone,

MAC
 
I can only look at your profile picture and OLD profile pictures and you look really good in those photos. I assume most people here photoshop a little bit so I can't tell for sure. For example, I definitely look better in these photos than IRL (not complaining though).

Apart from that, you have no excuse to kill the gym. You should be really lean at the end of 2023, no excuses. Let's see how you look whilst being lean before taking surgical decisions.

Lastly, I really think you need a fun hobby. I respect your daily hustle and I understand that you need to outwork 99% of the population. BUT this will tremendously increase your social connections outside of the hustle and is a great way to become less logical, and tell stories. Plus, girls are more likely to date someone with a mutual interest.
 
MakingAComeback said:
Thanks man. I appreciate you reading this log, means a lot so thanks for taking the time.

Yeah man, I am willing to do all this:

-Full sleeves
-Facial surgeries

Not steroids though as that will impact sperm count and fertility and I want a very natural birth for my children if I am able to pull this fucking journey off!

I understand that will be part of my future and there will be appointments with surgeons scheduled in 2024. But right now, hardcore physique development will have to be the focus.

Frankly, bro, I will stop at nothing and if you ever meet me, I am one of the most psychotic hard workers ever and am mega-consistent. If you've read the log you may know I am a bit of a robot (possibly autism) and am programmed to just press forward with a machine.

But your post is good.

Right now, my looks are fucking trash and I do not blame women for not wanting to be around me (apart from L who for some reason does like being around me).

And yes this is where I am, RIGHT NOW, but this time next year if I work myself like a demon, I will look better. That is OK!

Thanks for your post and I hope you post on the forum more regularly - you are welcome to post on my log any time and I would like to learn more about you.

Ravi


Perfect, that good to hear bro your willing to do those. Full tattoo sleeves make a huge difference, my results increased significantly after I got mine done and it helps a lot especially in competitive areas like night game/online where SMV matters a lot.

In terms of steroids affecting fertility, you can use HCG to preserve fertility whilst taking Testosterone etc. I use 300iu HCG 2x a week on my TRT dose of 140mg Test Cypionate - this keeps testicular function and fertility intact. Check out GLL's articles on this on GLL - Get A Life, he mentioned with HCG your fertility can actually be higher than if your totally natural, even if on exogenous Testosterone.

Yh man I can tell your super dedicated and I'm certain you'll get to your goals. It's pretty early in your journey right now, I feel like for absolutely everybody it takes many years to get to the point of getting high quantity lays of good quality girls.

Thanks man, I appreciate that - yh I'm gunna be a lot more active on this forum from now.
 
kratjeuh said:
I can only look at your profile picture and OLD profile pictures and you look really good in those photos. I assume most people here photoshop a little bit so I can't tell for sure. For example, I definitely look better in these photos than IRL (not complaining though).

Apart from that, you have no excuse to kill the gym. You should be really lean at the end of 2023, no excuses. Let's see how you look whilst being lean before taking surgical decisions.

Lastly, I really think you need a fun hobby. I respect your daily hustle and I understand that you need to outwork 99% of the population. BUT this will tremendously increase your social connections outside of the hustle and is a great way to become less logical, and tell stories. Plus, girls are more likely to date someone with a mutual interest.

I have pondered this man, I am sure I have improved my looks this year, but not enough and to the extent I should have :-(

Upon further consideration, I really think I have quite a lot of weight to lose! In particular, I have facial fat, which I think is contributing significantly to the 'attraction' problem so to speak - I will post a proper vlog and show you what I mean.

Nonetheless, you're correct and I accept your point. I am working hard on this and holding myself accountable to my bros The Dom & Paw. They see the picture of my scale every morning, my OMAD & the macros/kcals, and the lifting log with all reps and weights. I also send body pics each Sunday. So I have a process and system, and will just execute.....like I tend to ;-)

Hobby wise, great point. I actually love playing guitar but had to stop due to this project and self improvement grind. You kinda need to play every day, even 15mins is enough, 30m is better. But it's hard to find the time right now and I need to complete The Phoenix Project. Thereafter, for the next project, I am happy to engage in a hobby each day. I will plan that in.

Thanks bro,
Ravi
 
Hedon said:
MakingAComeback said:
Thanks man. I appreciate you reading this log, means a lot so thanks for taking the time.

Yeah man, I am willing to do all this:

-Full sleeves
-Facial surgeries

Not steroids though as that will impact sperm count and fertility and I want a very natural birth for my children if I am able to pull this fucking journey off!

I understand that will be part of my future and there will be appointments with surgeons scheduled in 2024. But right now, hardcore physique development will have to be the focus.

Frankly, bro, I will stop at nothing and if you ever meet me, I am one of the most psychotic hard workers ever and am mega-consistent. If you've read the log you may know I am a bit of a robot (possibly autism) and am programmed to just press forward with a machine.

But your post is good.

Right now, my looks are fucking trash and I do not blame women for not wanting to be around me (apart from L who for some reason does like being around me).

And yes this is where I am, RIGHT NOW, but this time next year if I work myself like a demon, I will look better. That is OK!

Thanks for your post and I hope you post on the forum more regularly - you are welcome to post on my log any time and I would like to learn more about you.

Ravi


Perfect, that good to hear bro your willing to do those. Full tattoo sleeves make a huge difference, my results increased significantly after I got mine done and it helps a lot especially in competitive areas like night game/online where SMV matters a lot.

In terms of steroids affecting fertility, you can use HCG to preserve fertility whilst taking Testosterone etc. I use 300iu HCG 2x a week on my TRT dose of 140mg Test Cypionate - this keeps testicular function and fertility intact. Check out GLL's articles on this on GLL - Get A Life, he mentioned with HCG your fertility can actually be higher than if your totally natural, even if on exogenous Testosterone.

Yh man I can tell your super dedicated and I'm certain you'll get to your goals. It's pretty early in your journey right now, I feel like for absolutely everybody it takes many years to get to the point of getting high quantity lays of good quality girls.

Thanks man, I appreciate that - yh I'm gunna be a lot more active on this forum from now.

That's great to hear man. I could do with a boost to say the least, lol! I have a lot of forearm hair so a full sleeve may be challenging, but I can do upper arm, easy. I will start the process of getting tattoos next year as part of the next phase of my development.

I have looked into this, HCG is definitely useful and preserves fertility. You're dependent on that thereafter, no? I am quite sensitive to test, I had a hair transplant due to hair loss a few months ago, test in the system won't be positive for my hair so I'll have to do this naturally.

I hear that. I have been going hard as fuck since March 2021, so it's what, 1.5 years. I understood this would be a multiple year journey. All the best guys worked for many many years. So be it. There is A LOT to be improved in terms of looks & game. I just need to do the work and do it smart.

The thing is, I did atleast go ALL IN, and did this fulltime lol. So I did take extreme levels of action necessary to turn my situation around, which I absolutely did do. Just need to work a bit smarter, and on the right things. The dedication and focus is there, I just have a bias towards grinding as opposed to activities in this domain that will move the needle.

I am very good at focusing on needlemovers in other domains and also for other people, was still an award winning project manager, just not good at it for myself as I like to really push and enjoy that for myself. Strange aspect of my psyche.

The fire burns for a better life, for elite, and it burns me up every single day that I am not where I want to be . I accept I made progress, but I am very hungry and determined and need more than this........

It'll come. Year by year.

..............Considered starting a log? ;-) I'd read.

POSITIVE SELF TALK,
MAC
 
THE PHOENIX PROJECT WEEK 52

WEDNESDAY 30/11/2022

MORNING BW: 194.6LBS (WEIGHT STABLE)

ACTIONS

(1) Dating: Confirm for date / Lead Gen Process
(2) Body: Cardio (60m) / Core / Stretch / Posture
(3) Biz/Copy: Accountability work, Product dev, Copywriting, Testimonials
Others: Self Improvement process

Day plan atatched.

Notes:

Yesterday I fucked something up and learned a lesson. I am doing OMAD, so fasting until like 5/6. So, I loaded up on 3 cups of coffee and felt anxious as all fuck, my mind was imploding and it really threw me off. It amplified by blackpill thoughts by at-least 10 lol.

Best action is to just switch to decaf for a few weeks. OMAD means there's no other meals happening to reduce adrenaline and stress hormones. Caffeine does stimulate the adrenals, and just piling stimulation and stress on the system without anything to calm it is a recipe for a fucked up day.

My friend Carl came over to watch the England game, he's made such great progress in his own journey, fooling around a bunch with a chick, he was very close to his first lay and I couldn't be more proud. The style changes helped him a lot, which he did with Radical, and he's gotten a really good professional photoshoot done. I faceapp'd his pics last night and made some changes to his profile, I think it's fairly solid now. We shall see.

THE MARKET DECIDES

If your outcomes remain shit, you have to improve your product.

His product is pretty good, looks wise he's pretty decent, his style has done a lot for him. He just needs to crack online.....which he will.

As for me, if she confirms, I'll have a date - the girl is not even close to cute, quite a chonk, but seems nice and it's PRACTICE. I didn't perform as I should last date and need to tighten up.

POSITIVE SELF TALK,
MAC
 
KYIL BUSINESS GROUP CHAT

If anyone has current, or future business goals, I may start a KYIL Biz group chat.

We can talk about the actions we're taking with biz daily, help each other out, and collab, partner up, and just help each other with basic shit - commenting, liking, feedback, testimonials etc.

Start letting me know if there's interest and I'll make it happen.

Serious people only. You guys know I must succeed and put my all into this shit.

MAC
 
MakingAComeback said:
That's great to hear man. I could do with a boost to say the least, lol! I have a lot of forearm hair so a full sleeve may be challenging, but I can do upper arm, easy. I will start the process of getting tattoos next year as part of the next phase of my development.

I have looked into this, HCG is definitely useful and preserves fertility. You're dependent on that thereafter, no? I am quite sensitive to test, I had a hair transplant due to hair loss a few months ago, test in the system won't be positive for my hair so I'll have to do this naturally.

I hear that. I have been going hard as fuck since March 2021, so it's what, 1.5 years. I understood this would be a multiple year journey. All the best guys worked for many many years. So be it. There is A LOT to be improved in terms of looks & game. I just need to do the work and do it smart.

The thing is, I did atleast go ALL IN, and did this fulltime lol. So I did take extreme levels of action necessary to turn my situation around, which I absolutely did do. Just need to work a bit smarter, and on the right things. The dedication and focus is there, I just have a bias towards grinding as opposed to activities in this domain that will move the needle.

I am very good at focusing on needlemovers in other domains and also for other people, was still an award winning project manager, just not good at it for myself as I like to really push and enjoy that for myself. Strange aspect of my psyche.

The fire burns for a better life, for elite, and it burns me up every single day that I am not where I want to be . I accept I made progress, but I am very hungry and determined and need more than this........

It'll come. Year by year.

..............Considered starting a log? ;-) I'd read.

POSITIVE SELF TALK,
MAC

No you're not dependant on HCG afterwards if your cycling, whilst using Testosterone it preserves natural testicular function so if coming off you should use 4 weeks of clomid and nolvadex and stop the HCG and natural Test levels should fully recover and fertility is maintained throughout (staying on TRT longer term you do need to stay on HCG).

In terms of worrying about hairloss, Finasteride should mostly stop hair loss depending on your genetics as long as your dose isn't too high (under 250-300mg a week). What you can do instead though is a treatment called Dutasteride Mesotherapy. Dutasteride is injected into the scalp in the fat layer, this basically kills 90%+ of scalp DHT but your systemic DHT isn't affected as DHT particles can't pass intp the the blood through the fat layer so no side effects from low systemic DHT. My friend had aggressive MPB but Dut Meso has completely halted his hair loss. It also means you can take higher dose of Testosterone without worrying about hair loss as you won't have DHT binding to hair follicles.

It's good to hear your hungry man, it'll be the motivation that'll get you to succeed and yh I think I'll start a log very soon.
 
Hedon said:
MakingAComeback said:
That's great to hear man. I could do with a boost to say the least, lol! I have a lot of forearm hair so a full sleeve may be challenging, but I can do upper arm, easy. I will start the process of getting tattoos next year as part of the next phase of my development.

I have looked into this, HCG is definitely useful and preserves fertility. You're dependent on that thereafter, no? I am quite sensitive to test, I had a hair transplant due to hair loss a few months ago, test in the system won't be positive for my hair so I'll have to do this naturally.

I hear that. I have been going hard as fuck since March 2021, so it's what, 1.5 years. I understood this would be a multiple year journey. All the best guys worked for many many years. So be it. There is A LOT to be improved in terms of looks & game. I just need to do the work and do it smart.

The thing is, I did atleast go ALL IN, and did this fulltime lol. So I did take extreme levels of action necessary to turn my situation around, which I absolutely did do. Just need to work a bit smarter, and on the right things. The dedication and focus is there, I just have a bias towards grinding as opposed to activities in this domain that will move the needle.

I am very good at focusing on needlemovers in other domains and also for other people, was still an award winning project manager, just not good at it for myself as I like to really push and enjoy that for myself. Strange aspect of my psyche.

The fire burns for a better life, for elite, and it burns me up every single day that I am not where I want to be . I accept I made progress, but I am very hungry and determined and need more than this........

It'll come. Year by year.

..............Considered starting a log? ;-) I'd read.

POSITIVE SELF TALK,
MAC

No you're not dependant on HCG afterwards if your cycling, whilst using Testosterone it preserves natural testicular function so if coming off you should use 4 weeks of clomid and nolvadex and stop the HCG and natural Test levels should fully recover and fertility is maintained throughout (staying on TRT longer term you do need to stay on HCG).

In terms of worrying about hairloss, Finasteride should mostly stop hair loss depending on your genetics as long as your dose isn't too high (under 250-300mg a week). What you can do instead though is a treatment called Dutasteride Mesotherapy. Dutasteride is injected into the scalp in the fat layer, this basically kills 90%+ of scalp DHT but your systemic DHT isn't affected as DHT particles can't pass intp the the blood through the fat layer so no side effects from low systemic DHT. My friend had aggressive MPB but Dut Meso has completely halted his hair loss. It also means you can take higher dose of Testosterone without worrying about hair loss as you won't have DHT binding to hair follicles.

It's good to hear your hungry man, it'll be the motivation that'll get you to succeed and yh I think I'll start a log very soon.

Great post man! Well bro I have been down the fin & dut route, did a lot to preserve my hair the boys know it was a long story! Dutasteride just shut my system down it was bad but I recovered, took 11 months of assbusting work to heal from that.

Nonetheless, great points made in this post and solid stuff.

Thank you for taking the time I appreciate it

MAC
 
MakingAComeback said:
KYIL BUSINESS GROUP CHAT

If anyone has current, or future business goals, I may start a KYIL Biz group chat.

We can talk about the actions we're taking with biz daily, help each other out, and collab, partner up, and just help each other with basic shit - commenting, liking, feedback, testimonials etc.

Start letting me know if there's interest and I'll make it happen.

Serious people only. You guys know I must succeed and put my all into this shit.

MAC

I'm interested. Not a specific business goal in mind yet, but I'm very curious what you guys are up to out there. I may have insight to share, and it would be nice to connect w/ other writers/marketers/biz owners out there.
 
MakingAComeback Interesting stuff on the caffeine. I also fast until 4-5 PM but drink loads of coffee before that. Recently started experimenting with nicotine gum as well but too much of both gives me crazy heart palpitations so I'm careful.

For every cup I take a pill of L-theanine too, which supposedly counteracts the jittery/anxiety side effects of caffeine.

Your post has me worried I might be fucking up my health somehow though. Curious to hear your insight.
 
MakingAComeback said:
Hobby wise, great point. I actually love playing guitar but had to stop due to this project and self improvement grind. You kinda need to play every day, even 15mins is enough, 30m is better. But it's hard to find the time right now and I need to complete The Phoenix Project. Thereafter, for the next project, I am happy to engage in a hobby each day. I will plan that in.

I challenge you to play the guitar 15m daily before you post on the forums:

It’s really cool that you want to motivate us but you have to also think about yourself. A hobby will do you good.
 
natedawg said:
MakingAComeback said:
KYIL BUSINESS GROUP CHAT

If anyone has current, or future business goals, I may start a KYIL Biz group chat.

We can talk about the actions we're taking with biz daily, help each other out, and collab, partner up, and just help each other with basic shit - commenting, liking, feedback, testimonials etc.

Start letting me know if there's interest and I'll make it happen.

Serious people only. You guys know I must succeed and put my all into this shit.

MAC

I'm interested. Not a specific business goal in mind yet, but I'm very curious what you guys are up to out there. I may have insight to share, and it would be nice to connect w/ other writers/marketers/biz owners out there.

LETS GO BRO

I've sent you my details, we will start talking. We can just chat and push each other / help each other, we can start that right away and there's no excuses we both want to win big in life, let's work together.

Ravi
 
Holden said:
@MakingAComeback Interesting stuff on the caffeine. I also fast until 4-5 PM but drink loads of coffee before that. Recently started experimenting with nicotine gum as well but too much of both gives me crazy heart palpitations so I'm careful.

For every cup I take a pill of L-theanine too, which supposedly counteracts the jittery/anxiety side effects of caffeine.

Your post has me worried I might be fucking up my health somehow though. Curious to hear your insight.

Bro, it's just something to be mindful of, I must be honest I am ADDICTED to coffee - I could not go more than 1 day. I drank 2 cups yesterday, but this was still better than 3 cups which makes me crazy anxious and negative!

I will say, there's plenty of benefits to drinking coffee, but the risk is that it's very dehydrating man. Every 2% we are dehydrated, our metabolism decreases by 10%! So this isn't good for overall health.

I need to work on keeping it to ONE cup a day, and drinking a tonne of water. I think if you're hydrating v. well (100oz a day) you'll be good man. My mentors in health all drink coffee, just keep it to one cup and make sure it's very early in the day

You're fine don't stress it.

How has work on biz & money been?

Ravi
 
kratjeuh said:
MakingAComeback said:
Hobby wise, great point. I actually love playing guitar but had to stop due to this project and self improvement grind. You kinda need to play every day, even 15mins is enough, 30m is better. But it's hard to find the time right now and I need to complete The Phoenix Project. Thereafter, for the next project, I am happy to engage in a hobby each day. I will plan that in.

I challenge you to play the guitar 15m daily before you post on the forums:

It’s really cool that you want to motivate us but you have to also think about yourself. A hobby will do you good.

I LOVE THIS

Bro, I actually really enjoy guitar and singing. We should incorporate this as a process, and I will make this happen.

Now not to make excuses but I will be honest: once I am in a pattern it makes me extremely stressed to change variables! Yes, my great weakness. It is legit painful for me to stop something once I've started, and because my day is so focused on my current goal, putting something new in WILL make my goal suffer.

I have changed something recently with diet and training and am working my ass off on that daily, with hardcore accountability, checking in with The Dom and Paw every day.

I can introduce another change, but it must be at the right time. Goals MUST remain the goal – I MUST do the following first:

-1 final lay
-185lbs scale weight

Then I am gonna set the new goal for the next stage of my development, and it will not be time bound, but rather, process oriented. One of them can be playing guitar daily and I will make a note of this in my document and apply it.

So the action I've taken from the above is:

-Add daily guitar & singing to the plan for my next hardcore, full-out self improvement project (ALL IN on business & money, physique and looks development 2nd goal, 3rd goal GAME development and processes related to game only)

Hope that works?

POSITIVE SELF TALK,
MAC
 
DATE #6 W/ L

Quick writeup for you bros, not a lay, nothing even goal related, but I feel this has been important for my development. Date #6 with L.

We had a dialogue previously around companionship, and how my priority is pursuing my goals. She understood I’m heading home for a few months, and was fine with this. I will still be coming back and fourth to London – I am now an entrepreneur, this is where the money is, and I am out here looking to GET IT.

So….

I fast all day. BW was 193.7lbs in the morning, so looking solid. Biz work gets a lil wild and I end up not being able to make the gym, so I push gym to tomorrow and Sat to make sure all sessions get done.

Blast out work. 6, eat a small amount, record it and then off to see L at 630. She’s vegan, and we reserve a table at a lovely vegan restaurant which is about 10mins from me and one of the top 10 vegan places in London. I am not vegan, just to be clear. I believee consuming DHA from marine fish is one of the best habits we can ever have for health and will be writing more about this.

Anyway.

We first meet at a pub right near the station. She rocks up, looking just lovely.

We hug, she looks me up and down and tells me I look good today. Nice. I compliment her back. We chat for a while. It’s such a pleasure being around her and always makes me feel good.

We then go to the restaurant, and banter a little. We’re being a bit silly and having a good time. We order our meal, get a beer, and I am thinking in the back of my mind, fuck man I am going to suffer on the scale tomorrow because of this. And of course, I did. This is why physique development sometimes has to be a true focus for a guy. FOCUS is what gets results, when you sacrifice other things and just do ONE or at most TWO things with extreme vigour, to the point of obsession. That’s how you win. Esp. if you’re an underdog. That’s how people like Andy did it, go back and read Musings of a Non-Completionist: The Hustle.

L is really a lovely woman, she’s smart, funny, good looking, and importantly, kind.

When her meal arrives, the first thing she does is try a little, and then have me taste some. When her beer arrives, she takes a sip, and then has be taste it. Little things like this feel incredibly good to me and contribute very positively to my process of healing.

We eat, and then go to pick up a bottle of wine. YUP. We split a bottle of rose. I did OMAD, I rode through hours of hunger, and then I saw L and drank too much. However, I didn’t eat the entire meal – I ate, at best, 50% of it because I knew I was fucking up. I will be better today I assure you.

Go back to my place. As I am nearing the door, my psyche begins to start distorting. I am convinced she will get to the door, and turn around and say “Right, I have to go home now”. I am feeling all over the place. But we get to the building, enter, and go over to the lift no worries.

We enter my apartment, and I start to feel all distorted again, thinking she will be hella uncomfortable and want to leave.
I show her around, take a seat on the sofa, we have a glass of wine and talk.

She then asks me to bring over a throw so we can get under it and talk.

“Sure, it’s in my room, we can just go over and listen to music”

I then do sense some real tension in her, I also feel the same tension in me just asking.

“OK”

Phew…….

We keep talking on my sofa, get up close, and make out briefly.

Head to my room, and start listening to music. Mostly 80s soul stuff, I was in that sort of mood.

We talk and get super close, get under a throw and slug a further glass of wine.

“It’s my one free evening before I go to Thailand, I have absolutely no time for any of my friends or family, and you got it…..I demand you appreciate that ;-)” she tells me, and I can feel her vulnerability

I know L is telling the truth here, she is doing well in life, making quite a fair bit of money (near 6 figures), has a very thriving social life and is doing a lot. I know many people want her time. And yet, despite that, I am able to get it above so many other people. That is just amazing.

Our conversation gets incredible deep and we share a bunch.

We talk about sex, kinks, and things we like sexually for quite a while. We’re right next to each other, my hand is on her ass, she is looking just so good, her ass, boobs, everything is just lush.

We’re cuddled up close and kiss here and there.

CREATING A BUBBLE

Pancakemouse has infomed me of the importance of being able to do this on dates, in being so engaging, so connected, and stimulating, that the entire world fades away and you and the girl create a bubble around yourselves.

I had never experienced this. Until last night.

We’re talking about attraction, and what we’re into physically, and the subject of attraction beyond looks comes up. She tells me she has met many men who were just stunningly beautiful, and utterly chiselled (goals) but in conversation will just talk endlessly about themselves. I commented a little on this, and how attraction can occur beyond looks (game in a nutshell).

I noticed as I was communicating this, she was utterly spellbound, hanging on my every word, and the experience was intense. I was aware it was happening, her face was inches from my own, and everything seemed to go into slow motion, the entire world faded away and it was just Me & Her.

The way she was looking at me was like nothing I’ve ever experienced before.

“...I was hanging on your every word, Ravi”

I felt it. This was an epic moment and the first time something like that has happened for me.

We talked BIZ. L is pretty smart and she told me a bunch about sales, and how she did her client outreach and calls for years. She told me her approach is all about being very present, and targeting clients with money basically. She told me she splits her outreach process into 3 categories, and interestingly, spends some time pursuing experienced people in her own industry to ask to pick their brains – she called this her “ego calls”, and told me she got invaluable information from this and also a lot of business, many of these folks had client overflow which they referred to her.

“How can that help you?”……..

The first thing she thinks of is how this can help me with my accountability coaching business, IronWill. This is very sweet and we discuss how I could do this kind of outreach. I will also talk with Andy about this, as well as my bros more broadly, and of course, you all.

We talk about our different dates, and she opens up about date #1, which I wrote 13 fucking pages about and posted a few weeks back.

“Ravi, when we were texting, I thought you’d be a brash, overly confident tosser. When I met you, for the first few hours, I did think you were an asshole. But by the end of the date, my anxiety went all the way up to the maximum, because I really liked you. I want you to know, after our first date, I went home and cried for 10 minutes straight, because it went so well”

I an listening intently, and so much of the advice I was given from Pancakemouse and The Dom was ringing true, it was quite mindblowing

“In particular, there was a moment at the start of our first date when I was really shocked. I asked if it would be OK if we headed outside, because I was feeling quite hot, and you told me you felt more comfortable indoors. You said no to me. I was genuinely shocked and couldn’t believe it. My first thought was, “Who does this arrogant bastard think he is saying no to me? Men NEVER say no to me…..” That really threw me. But I knew I had to give you the benefit of the doubt”

Bros, this is so important.

You MUST make her feel.

“Take risks, push the limits, be incorrigible. STAND OUT”
-Pancakemouse

“Women live in the world of emotions, they want to FEEL, Ravi. Logic will bore her, and like Dracula recoiling from the light, she will be repulsed”
-The Dom

If you’re not getting the outcomes you want: time to learn DATE GAME.

Mine is still weak, but I got it right with L, and have had very fantastic experiences out of that performance. It paid dividends.

L commented further:

“Most dates with men, and dealing with men in general, you see them in this “YES” state. Everything you say, everything you do, they’re just nodding their head “YES” and going along with everything you say, you want, whatever. It’s because all their thinking is one thing: penis in the vagina, penis in the vagina, penis in the vagina, penis in the vagina…..”

Fascinating because I remember when I was like this, very nice guy, agreeable – I still have to work on this hard, but damn dude, this shit makes women truly sickened.

Furthermore, shows you the reality of attractive girls. Men in the world generally fawn over L and behave like total spastics around her. She finds it extremely creepy and gross. Over the course of the self improvement process, endless dates and approaches, you burn your nice guy tendencies and agreeableness away.

Like poison dripping from the the veins, it just seeps away, drop by drop. Every date, every approach, every time you push it, the pain you feel inside, it is the subconscious change we need to KILL THE BETA and allow something else to shine through

TRUE MASCULINITY

MAC ACOUSTIC PERFORMANCE

We’re winding down and I then decide to pick up the guitar and play for a bit.

She gets very excited by one particular song she remembers, and claps her hands, it’s super adorable. She is fan girling a bit and is loving it.

I stop playing after a few songs, and look over to her. She is kinda melting. It’s an epic sight, and is burned into my brain now….wow…….

I jump over and we make out, quite passionately, holding each other quite tight.

We chat a bit more, and then she calls herself an uber at around 11.

A lovely evening, with a truly lovely creature. What a lady.

I worked my fucking ASS off to have experiences like this. I am sat there with her and just pinching myself, asking is this real. At one point, her pretty head is in my lap and I am sipping a glass of rose, running my fingers through her hair, listening to music, and just truly in disbelief. Every thought that is exploding in my brain is telling me she is going to look up, see my ugly face, notice how unattractive I am, and her face is going to distort into disgust. I am so convinced this is going to happen, I am actually seeing it in my minds eye as I am with her, and she looks up and says something, and I am convinced she is about to say she has to go home and isn’t feeling it.

But it never happens.

I am just asking myself, what is happening man?

I was an incel. I was a virgin until 29. I had never been on a date and I used to weigh 275lbs. I used to have so much anxiety I didn’t leave my parents house for 2 years at one stage (the lost years, 25-27). I was a shut in, an obese wreck, who cried himself to sleep many, many nights. I had one of the most fucked up and sick minds of all time and lived in the absolute core of hell, sometimes literally so sick I was close to death. One day in particular I think I was close to death and it terrifies me to this day.

And yet…..I am now here.

I think it’s fucking crazy sometimes, how a guy that fucked up can experience things like this.

The ladies will never know what some of us have been through, just for the chance of redemption, to throw the dice just once more, to dance under the lights, to feel he sun on our skin, to just rise above our challenges and demons and say, I too am in this world, and I too have a chance.

Somewhere along the line, the underdog is forced to go deep inside of himself and make a decision, the supreme decision, that either he will make something of himself in this world and become someone he respects

Or he will literally die trying

There is a treasure buried itself myself, I know it, I know it, I absolutely know it

No matter the situation I was born into and what happened, I know I was not destined to lose

There WILL be a path for victory for me and one day I will know in my heart of hearts, that I too, have fucking made it

That day will be the sweetest day I will ever know

But until then…………..

KEEP WORKING

POSITIVE SELF TALK,
MAC
 
FormalBox said:
MakingAComeback said:
KYIL BUSINESS GROUP CHAT

If anyone has current, or future business goals, I may start a KYIL Biz group chat.

We can talk about the actions we're taking with biz daily, help each other out, and collab, partner up, and just help each other with basic shit - commenting, liking, feedback, testimonials etc.

Start letting me know if there's interest and I'll make it happen.

Serious people only. You guys know I must succeed and put my all into this shit.

MAC

if you guys are looking for a plus 1, my hand is up.

Absolutely. You are more than welcome.

I will PM you, me you and Nate will talk biz and we will push forward.

All the KYIL boys are welcome.

I want to help give back to MY FORUM lol.......... :-)

MAC
 
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