YEAR 3: THE IRONWILL PROJECT: MONEY, MUSCLES, MINDSET - FROM NOTHING TO SOMETHING, MY RELENTLESS JOURNEY

[Lord Rey]

MakingAComeback Thanks for your elaborated answer bro. So it's not for me.

As much as I want to make money from my business and become a millionaire before I hit 40, I'm not ready for that level of grinding yet. Especially since I may go back to a 9 to 5 job soon.

I'll end up achieving my goal, even if it takes me more time because of my slower pace.

Keep crushing it and good luck with your biz!

 

[MakingAComeback]

@MakingAComeback Thanks for your elaborated answer bro. So it's not for me.

As much as I want to make money from my business and become a millionaire before I hit 40, I'm not ready for that level of grinding yet. Especially since I may go back to a 9 to 5 job soon.

I'll end up achieving my goal, even if it takes me more time because of my slower pace.

Keep crushing it and good luck with your biz!

You are welcome to change your mind whenever you want.

The door is open to you.

Ravi

 

[MakingAComeback]

Date last night: no pull.

What was weird about this date:

We scheduled for Monday. She texts me Sat night asking me if I'm around. I tell her I am. She says she's coming to see me. I thought, hmmm, maybe she's DTF, but I am aware I am MAC, and I have had this literally 20 times this year if not more so I know better than most how it tends to go..... ;-)

She calls me, and tells me she'll be 20 minutes.

She gets the train over.

When the train arrives, she whips her phone out, and pulls up a previous text I sent her that morning telling her I will be watching the England game.

She replies to it and a score of question marks

I tell her I am watching it, but I'll escape for a bit to meer her.

She tells me to not bother, that I shouldn't come.

I tell her I want to meet her.

She kind of goes back and fourth.

She rocks up. Hug, walk her over, and start flowing.

I didn't feel much from her, she would give the occasion IOI, was inquisitive, did play with her hair in a manner that suggests attraction throughout. That said, there wasn't a sexual vibe, nor did she seem like much of a sexual person. Quizzing her on her past, she was in a 4 year relationship and was "wifed up". This person didn't seem sexual and also, when I would touch her physically, she wasn't particularly receptive. Took her hands and felt them for a bit, she retracted, Touched her back fo a bit, she kinda ducked out.

I pitched the pull a few times, which she told me was "interesting", and she told me she can't hang out with me as she has to go meet her friends. She did seem to be texting them, and it makes sense. Looks like she wanted to quickly meet me before heading on her way to her friends. Logistics were not there for me today.

-What I did well: Vibed well, teased, pushed, some physical escalation, pitched the pul 3 x. My thinking going into this date was simple: I just want to enjoy being here with this girl. Largely, I did enjoy it. I was very incompatible with this lady. Not for me, at all.
-What I didn't do well: I made efforts to get her to talk and did listen intently. She just didnt have much about her to say, and was really wanting to probe and grill me interviewer style. I find this exceptionally off putting and see it as masculine behaviour. Turns my stomach. I made efforts to get her to open up and just flow. She did, to some small degree.
-What could be improved: Sexualising. I did ask her what she likes in a guy, she eluded to how she isn't looking for a relationship and is just dating to meet people (I screened her hard using the "I'm here for something quite specific" line and even told her I am leaving London on the 16th.

She gave very short answers, and kept asking questions about me. Didn't want to talk about herself much. In my experience, this is a bad sign and something women do when they're looking just to do random casual dates - this chick told me guys on hinge have planned all sorts of elaborate dates for her, novel and interesting new experiences. Laughable. She was 5 at best in looks (not even close to pretty) and wasn't feminine at all. Everyone is different, some men like women like this. Different strokes.

She did seem to enjoy being around me and made references to wanting to hang out again before I go. I'll tolerate a straight to crib, if she responds to my text. Otherwise, no way.

Every dud is 1 step closer to success. You have to enjoy this shit. It isn't so much about the lay, but the man you become, and facing your demons and triggers. I get triggered in my subconscious mind when my dates don't pull and even if it doesn't float to the surface, and I am thinkng and acting normally, the trigger happens in my nervous system and it keeps me up at night still. Hence I got little sleep last night. I have been using kratom the past week and it gives me a pleasant mood boost, I feel good despite my lack of sleep.

I made her pay for her half, she was trying to escape, but I stopped her and made her pay for her glass of wine;-)

The goal is to get laid, yes, but it is above all about being a MAN. About being able to wether any storm, and to be able to go on dates, approach women, and have them not interested or not down and no longer feel pain any more because my life is going well, and I am proud of the man I am, and the man I will be.

I am happy with my life and who I am.

In time, my subconscious will heal from the hurt. Just dating these women and continuing to press forward helps me a lot, it can be bitter and I have lows, but this will be the road to success for me.

There will be a day when I can just sit there and be with a girl and be fully present, enjoy the moment, enjoy her, and also, feel good about myself and not have my horrible image issues and low sense of worth bleed into my experience of reality.

In truth, I am getting better and I am proud of the progress I've made in just how I can process things now and how I feel about the world.


_____

Sunday, which means

WEEKLY PHYSIQUE PICS:
BW: 191.3 (Weight remained stable all week - tis is down from 195.4lbs last Sunday)
Tagging my accountability partner G who has been a massive help
Goal is to shred down to abs, and then add muscle. I think I have 20lbs of lard to burn through. I'll do it too
Next Steps:
-Keep everything the same
-Train my ass off for 2 more weeks and see if anything drops scale wise
-Start taking weekly body measurements. Add these to a Google Sheet, share alongside my pics in the group every week

MAC

 

[MILFandCookies]

I tell her I want to meet her.

She kind of goes back and fourth.

She did seem to enjoy being around me and made references to wanting to hang out again before I go. I'll tolerate a straight to crib, if she responds to my text. Otherwise, no way.

I made her pay for her half, she was trying to escape, but I stopped her and made her pay for her glass of wine;-)

Hey man. I like seeing you rolling with the punches while staying chill about the whole thing. You've got this man, keeping things into perspective you went from 0 to 9 lays this year, good shit man.

I quoted a few quotes here. The first one because it shows she probably was more trouble than she was worth. Dodged a bullet.

And the other two becuause good job for sticking up for yourself.

 

[MakingAComeback]

I tell her I want to meet her.

She kind of goes back and fourth.

She did seem to enjoy being around me and made references to wanting to hang out again before I go. I'll tolerate a straight to crib, if she responds to my text. Otherwise, no way.

I made her pay for her half, she was trying to escape, but I stopped her and made her pay for her glass of wine;-)

Hey man. I like seeing you rolling with the punches while staying chill about the whole thing. You've got this man, keeping things into perspective you went from 0 to 9 lays this year, good shit man.

I quoted a few quotes here. The first one because it shows she probably was more trouble than she was worth. Dodged a bullet.

And the other two becuause good job for sticking up for yourself.

For sure man, went hard as I could this year, literally did ALL I could. If there was ANYTHING else I could have done, I would have done it.

9 lays was positive - they helped me become a better man. I lowered my standards A LOT for these women (they were obese & mentally disturbed women for the most part, apart from 1 who was nice) but it was better than nothing man

I'm gonna try a different way moving forward, and work on my body for a while I think!

Thanks for the support brother it means a lot

Ravi

 

[MakingAComeback]

Another date this week. She declined the pull 2 x saying she has a deadline tomorrow (she texted me earlier telling me she has finished Uni for the year, it’s X-Mas holiday there’s obv no deadlines lol).

When she declined for the 2nd time, which was about 45mins in, I went to the bar and split the bill. Wished her well and sent her on her way!

I was noticebly losing interest after the 2nd decline of my pull and she then kept asking a bunch of questions. Respectfully, I am not there to entertain people who’re not interested in me as a man. We screen hard so there’s no point wasting each others time if it’s not on. It’s bye - I just ended it within about 3 mins of me losing interest.

I will keep grinding until the bitter end

I am glad I have pushed hard as possible for my goal this year and sacrificed, put my goals first, and just learned to endure these periods where it’s week after week of dates & no pull.

My parents came to pick my stuff up today. I leave on Thursday, they took pretty much everything, and all that’s left is the bed. Well, I told them I will leave the bed here for a few days – I lied to them and told them I’ve sold it and have someone coming to get it. I listed it, but no buyers – rather, I am holding onto the bed incase I get a lay! I still have a possible lead for next week, you never know…..

Unless I can sell it in the next few days, I’ll have to get the train home (2hrs), bring my car to London (2hrs), pack it up there & drive it back home (2hrs) and wrap this chapter up.

A normal person would be like, well, I only have 4 days left now, they can take the bed and I’ll sleep on the sofa, and not bother with my final lay.

But that’s not me. I took a risk and pushed, because your goal comes first. No excuses.

All you can do in this life to be successful is work as hard as possible, and not give in. Do that every day. Repeat the next day. That’s life and part of being a man is gutting up and being positive any way. I think of my ancestors in Punjab who had to endure unspeakable, inhuman barbarism and yet fought tooth and nail for survival, despite being outnumbered in some instances 10,000 to 1, the fortitude of the human spirit is unbelievable.

Hard work is good but in dating, you can't out work your appearance.

The big bottleneck for me and my dating life are my looks.

If improvement wasn't possible, I'd rather take a bullet in the brain and be dead. I would not want to live if the dating life that was possible for me was the one I have.

Back in the gym tomorrow & will work hard as fuck. Give me a year and things will improve with women. I’ll have built a far more positive psychology in that time also.

A brighter future and better sex life is, in theory, possible.

Part of being a mature adult is accepting where you are. Because I have take extreme levels of action, I've learned where I am at.

There is no doubt any more when walking around and seeing a pretty girl, and thinking, man, what i she would go out with me?

The answer is no.

Tried and tested 1000+ times, over 1.5 years.

The work to turn that no into a yes will require a further year in the gym.

And if that doesn't work, then I'll be on a plastic surgeons table in 2024.

It doesn't matter what you have to do in order to win. If you want something, you go for it. Period.

Ravi

 

[MakingAComeback]

TIME TO FACE THE MUSIC: PRODUCT OVERHAUL OR DIE

So, look man. There are some hard truths to face as I wrap up the year. I have pushed hard as possible and learned a lot about myself, and about the sexual market place. I have put too much dedication and sacrifice into myself to even possibly consider just accepting my life at this stage. It’s either get to where I need to be, or die trying.

I have played the numbers game hard core, I have worked on the dating apps for a disgusting amount of time with any breaks.

I have done literally everything I could have done this year and left no stone unturned.

Obviously, I am transparent about my situation: the women who I can sleep with are quite gross. The women I’m able to get out on dates, whilst not all bad looking people (some are OK, 2-3 girls out of 100+ were fairly pretty, maybe around 4-5 were cute), really didn’t have any real sexual energy or attraction towards me. I also didn’t really want them.

From here on out, if I continue to play the numbers game, all I am going to realistically get is a continuation of what I’ve had.

I simply cannot accept that. Whilst I appreciate this is early days for me and I’ll be at this for a few years, what I want to communicate quite clearly is what I am at the moment, that is, the way I look, present, and where I am in my development, is able to only gain access to a totally bullshit dating and sex life that is not even close to commensurate with the dedication and sacrifice I’ve put in.

Continuing like this is truly pointless. I couldn’t say this a few months ago because I didn’t know. I had a glimmer of hope that maybe, just maybe, I could get a taste of what I was looking for. Now that is gone and I can say this now because I know in my heart of hearts I have gone above and beyond.

FACING THE REALITY: LOW SMV MALES REQUIRE A DIFFERENT GAME PLAN (BEYOND THE NUMBERS GAME)

The bottom line for me and my own conclusion from being in the trenches and doing this full time is:

-Women do not see me as a sexual threat or actually feel attraction towards me (until I can change this, it is actually over)
-I attract mostly bored and undesirable women who just want to go on a date (yes, and you have no freakin idea how unbelievably annoying this is)

I have tried everything you can imagine to turn this around, I will happily talk about sex, BDSM, kinks on dates, get physical, all that. The last few dates I’ve done this.

The advice I’ve been given has all been applied and to varying degrees has been useful.

But the one thing that none of my coaches or advisors have been willing to talk about is my looks.

Here is where we are simply arguing with reality……

Pushing a square peg into a round hole doesn’t work.

It doesn’t now, nor does it ever.

It is incredibly arrogant to tell people “you’re not special”

Yes, people ARE special in this game. This lie has been exposed now.

Low SMV males ARE special and require an entirely different game plan and time-line (it may be a 5-10 year process for these men)

People are too blinded by their own experience of reality to see this, and hence, push their own realities onto others. The big concepts which I think are leading to my situation are the following two assumptions:

(1) If a girl is willing to go on a date with you, she’s already slightly interested
(2) Dating & Sex is a numbers game, you just talk to as many women as you can and some will say yes

Because we believe these assumptions so deeply, almost like a religion, we cannot accept that they are wrong and are only of meaningful utility for moderate to high SMV men (white & black men).

I say this with total respect and clarity and am not upset about this at all. I just need to organise my thinking so I can find a way forward, and part of that is dispelling flawed thinking.

(1) This is grade A horseshit, and I defy anyone to tell me otherwise.

I’ll wait?

No, didn’t think so…….

If you are to disagree, know that you’re under the Dunning-Krueger effect and are extrapolating from your own lived experience (if you’re moderate to high SMV, you have no concept of the reality of a low SMV male, none, no one here has any authority to say anything on this and you know it).

So many of us do this, and we fail each other when we engage in this thinking. I try my best to help people on this website and really spend time reading these logs and thinking about how to serve these men.

This is peoples lives on the fucking line here.

I no longer am willing to bend to a perceived greater level of experience or duration in the game on this one, because respectfully, I have drawn enough data to understand that the qualitative experience of men who look like myself (a 5 in physical looks, and brown, hence with only a tiny potential market share) is so far removed and so different from the experience of men from higher SMV backgrounds (white men, black men) that the advice that applies to others sincerely does not apply to us.

The examples people showed me which were supposed to be examples that indicated that anyone can do this, that it’s just a numbers game, and that you can just look above average and get results were all manifestly proven to not even share a semblance of my own experience. None of these men approached 1000+ women to no avail. None of them had the qualitative experience I have on dating, which is to go out on dates and just sit there while women look at me with dead, uninterested eyes. None of them virtually never get 2nd dates, virtually never get investment or have some meaningful interest shown in them.

That is where I came to understand that the roadmap I had placed in front of me was in fact deeply flawed, and sadly, we will have to find another way out of this damn jungle and some how get me the hell out.

In reality, women are complex, but have one fundamental core need which isn’t a bad thing, but is human nature: ego validation.

To be seen, to be heard, to just be affirmed. Dating is the biggest boost to a woman’s ego of all time. Just you showing up, in her mind, she is 100% certain you want her with every fibre of your being and you have already given her the dopamine hits and unconscious validation she needs. Her saying no to you only boosts her ego further.

If this was not the case, wouldn’t I have had more than a handful of dates in 100+ where there was atleast SOME interest in me from the chick?

Wouldn’t I have gotten more than 2 chicks to actually text me or go on 2nd dates? (Only my old FWB and L have texted me)

My old FWB was a statistical anomoly: she’d never been on a date before and had anxiety over using dating apps. I got in there first due to the level of numbers game I play, and was able to get some experience under my belt because of it.

L is a platonic friend, I do care about her a lot, but we’re just mates and that’s fine. She was one of the best things that happened to me this year tbh.

These two situations came about through sheer luck and happenstance from a level of inhuman grinding sustained over a 1.5year time span. Outside of these 2 women, no one showed any meaningful interest, ghosted, and to be quite blunt, were unattractive and undesirable women.

You can fall back on the typical get out of jail clauses you see:

-It's your confidence, what you're communicating, etc
-She's just not sexually available
-Numbers game, go talk to another 500 women

All of these contain a grain of truth, but considered together and fully in context, the broader picture highlights the flaws of these assessments. They are not bad or harmful, and they do help, but when considered within the overall context of having tried and tested this stuff, hardcore (possibly harder than those giving this advice, no offence, but it is likely true) I can see the forest for the trees on this one.

The big picture and qualitative perspective makes me aware that it’s time to drastically change.

It isn’t the numbers game, I’ve exhausted that
It isn’t modifying behaviour and improving game, I have done a little of that, but with a bullshit product, you’re not tapping into a market share that’s sexually interested anyway
It isn’t style

All these things are great, but they require 1 foundation

PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS

Without this, take it from me: you’re absolutely fucking finished.

End of story.

It DOES NOT get better, unless you drastically overhaul the way you look or find a different strategy (gain very high status, etc).

(2) Dating & Sex is a Numbers Game (Except for low SMV males)

I have had to grapple with this and just think about it for freakin’ countless hours.

When what has put to you has not worked, you have to go deeper than everything else and figure out WTF is going on.

High and moderate SMV males do not have to go into this area, they can stay on the surface, because the key to success for them is simply running the numbers. That’s all it takes, man. They cannot even process a reality outside of theirs, and how can you expect them to? How is someone who has never been drunk or intoxicated able to know what those feelings are like?

Here’s what I’ll tell you:

It’s Product:Market fitment that matters.

You ignore this at your peril. The ideas and concepts you embed into your brain become your map, you will use them to navigate, and in time, if you’ve used the wrong map, you’ll find yourself fucking LOST.

Your PRODUCT must have some sex appeal and be able to spark attraction in women.

If your product is able to do this, you can put it to the mass market, and you’ll get some share of it, and of that, you will convert the ones who’re attracted to you.

Here’s where you run into problems:

-If your product lacks sex appeal, then your positioning is FUCKED. You will, at best, secure a share of the market which are tyre kickers, time wasters, fantasists and people who’re ‘not serious’. They will also be unattractive women.

Looking “above average” if your skin is brown and your facial structure is sub-par IS NOT just about being at a healthy range in your BMI and rocking good style.

THE MARKET DECIDES THIS

Women are your mirrror

If you believe this falsehood, you’ll end up where I did.

Here’s the truth: if you’re from a low SMV background, the bar for “looking good” is shamefully, woefully, soul-crushingly high.

Get it through your skull and move the fuck into the action you'll need to take. Let others who have not done the work themselves continue to parrot empty, meaningless, childish platitudes. We are grown men and we must find a way.

Better for me to tell you the truth so you don’t flounder like I did.
It may even require one to reach borderline maxed out levels of appearance.

Sorry, but there is no alternative.

If there was ANYTHING I could have done to change my fate, believe me, I would have done it.

If this was not the case, wouldn’t I have been able to get a pretty girl on a date with me more than 2 times?

Remember, that ONLY happened twice lay 2, and L. Less than 5 were ‘cute’. The overwhelming majority were, politely put, not the bell of the ball lets say.

What does it serve people like me to tell me, it’s OK bro, just look acceptable and you’ll be good?

All this does is lead to bullshit outcomes and a bullshit life.

I myself am not averse to hard work and will happily put it in – I just need a plan to actually build the sex and dating life I want and also just need to clear up some of the flawed notions that have been embedded into my brain, because they lead me to take ineffective actions and put myself in a fucking losing position in life.

For now, I am looking to STOP what isn’t working, and what won’t work, because it can’t:

-STOP ONLINE DATING. There is literally NO POINT of low SMV males being on these apps past a certain point. I’ve gotten some lays, I’ve gotten experience, from my date audios you can grasp that my date game isn’t bad at all now.

NO MORE OF THIS BULLSHIT

From Jan 1st, I will cancel all subscriptions, delete the apps, and stop bothering with this time wasting activity.

TO TURN MY LIFE AROUND, I WILL HAVE TO AGGRESSIVELY CHANGE THE WAY I LOOK AND “ABOVE AVERAGE” IS NOT GOING TO CUT IT

I WILL HAVE TO GO WAY BEYOND WHERE I AM

OTHERWISE, THIS WILL BE THE REST OF MY LIFE

I’d rather just be shot dead now and put out my damn misery.

HARDCORE PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT

-Work unbelievably hard in the gym for 3 months straight, cutting the whole time
-Schedule a series of professional shoots, with an improved physique, and my hair transplant grown further. Push the boat out and stand the fuck out.
-Do a significant amount of tattooing

I will do cold approach 2/3 times a week when I need a break from business. I will read self dev & dating materials to keep the dream alive. I won’t be in a location with good volume at all, and the women aren’t much to look at where my parents live, but I am serious and I cannot afford to get rusty with women.
I will do solo night game Friday/Sat and just drive to other cities, talk to women for a bit, and drive home. I will be at my parents place so no logitics.

And this entire time, I’ll work on my psychology.

I know you guys want me to succeed and you like that I work my ass off.

I appreciate it. We are brothers here and we love each other.

But you have to be honest with me and just tell me the truth.

You have to admit to me there is no point continuing the way I am.

Have the fucking balls to just be truthful about it. I serve you to the best of my ability and gone above and beyond for men here ALL the damn time.

Otherwise, you are just leading me deeper and deeper into the jungle without giving me the machete I fucking need to GET OUT

No one else had the balls to be honest and direct, because they didn't want me to quit and wanted me to overcome my negativity. That is admirable, but I have shown you that I am serious at this stage so please just tell it like it is, I can take it, the training wheels are off now and I am a big boy, my knees can take getting a little scraped on the concrete.....I'm tougher than you may think.

The current version of Ravi will not survive the dating game, not because he doesn’t look above average at this point, not because he doesn’t play the numbers game hardcore.

The current version of Ravi will be consigned to his current sex and dating life unless he totally physically transforms himself due to his inherently low SMV (brown skin and unattractive face) and all we are doing in not admitting this is prolonging my experience in shit street.

There is no justification for expecting anything to change until this physical transformation is done.

This does run contra to a lot of the notions our community holds, and does run contra to the current body of thought.

This is where we have to accept a bitter pill: the knowledge and collective wisdom of our community only really applies to high to moderate SMV males.

For low SMV males, such as myself, we will have to find an entirely different approach, develop an entirely different system, and because no one else was really positioned to make this point (we are here to encourage action, not give guys more reasons not to even try) I will have to be the one who finds this damn pathway for low SMV males.

The good news is, once I actually fucking find the answers for low SMV males, I will literally share it far and wide, publish it, give it away entirely for free and make sure no one, ever, has to go through the insane bullshit I had to.

I will be the one who helps these men out of the jungle.

But in order for me to do so, I first have to save myself.

The future may involve a basically god-tier physique.

The future may involve extensive plastic surgery.

If that’s what it takes, it’s what it takes.

But there WILL be a way. Either I’ll find a way, or make one.

NEXT STEPS: MOVING INTO 2023

From Jan, I’ll basically put dating on the back burner and AGGRESSIVELY LOOKSMAXX whilst doing approaches in my parents town just to keep the dream alive.

I will work 60-80hrs a week on business.

And I will return to online dating and going hard as fuck with women from, say, April 2023, when I move in with Paw and try again with a new profile

Let's just wrap 2022 up now and find a path forward.

POSITIVE SELF TALK

MAC

 

[MakingAComeback]

Thank you for the compliment bro thats very kind FormalBox

I know you're trying to hep, and that's very much appreciated

I have to be a bit firm with you here: you're not quite thinking about this correctly and this is not good advice. I don't have the time to explain to you why, what I'll say is, grind for 12 years like me and you learn so much about how this stuff works.

You've read this log so you should actually know better, in particular:

-Street interviews & content creation: I did these and talked to a lot of girls, asked for their numbers, one went on a date with me and ghosted. This was within the context of "hobbies"
-Throwing house parties and higher status events: Through high value men I've put on shows, been to influencer parties and so on, women remain very unreceptive and not into me

The blind should not lead the blind, dude. Rank beginners and people who do not deeply know their shit will get called out for their ignorance and you will be shown the same tough love today. I have tried warm approach, literally for years upon years.

Thank you, I appreciate you're trying to help, but please lets be grown and mature men about this.

R

 

[kratjeuh]

-Work unbelievably hard in the gym for 3 months straight, cutting the whole time
-Schedule a series of professional shoots, with an improved physique, and my hair transplant grown further. Push the boat out and stand the fuck out.
-Do a significant amount of tattooing

3 months is not enough, not even when you're planning to take some sort of steroids. To achieve an elite body you just need more time. You are right that your "species" isn't as desired hence you need a better body than the races that get desired more. You will see massive improvements if you work your ass off for 3 months but please don't put a time on evolving your body.

You mentioned you are about to quit the apps which I feel will do you well. There's no need to spend more money in the short term on improving your profile. Based on what you've been posting I assume you've spent loads on boosts, and shoots, ... Use this extra money for other things such as upgrading your style, business, diet, some savings, and travel, ... The photo shoot is cool once you've achieved a look that you believe is good enough to get good dating results. Once again, there is no specific time for this.

Please don't get tattoos just for girls and please don't get any meaningless tattoos. I've just got mine and I'm super happy about what it stands for. A tattoo won't look exactly like you planned it to look. Mine looks a little worse than I had in mind (I still think it's an 8/10). Girls prefer the meaning behind the tattoos without you having to lie instead of you just rocking 20 tattoos suddenly. These things will stay on your body for your entire life, make sure your decision is wise.


I agree that you have a tough time as a low SMV man. I respect your hard work and I'm interested to see what you can make of yourself in the upcoming period.

You now have all the info to improve your looks, there are no more secrets. Your first big challenge is to max out everything you can. The challenge after is to turn from logical (all the theory about dating, looks, ...) into fun and flirty. The last one isn't just knowing some funny lines but it's your complete vibe. Don't underestimate how difficult it is to transform your vibe.

I think you have the capability to pull this all of. I am going to repeat myself for the last time. There are no set timers to reach a certain goal. If you do everything diehard, you might achieve some goals before your deadline and some will still be after your deadline. Don't bash your head if you have done all you can and something takes a bit longer. I'm a little afraid that you hang on certain thresholds too hard, this is limiting your progress. My body started growing hard last month because I just felt happier and free, too strict goals limit a free (growth) mindset. Good luck!

 

[MakingAComeback]

Thank you, and I wish you luck and success also.

Your positive sentiment and support are felt, and that in and of itself gives me the strength to continue.

I am sorry if I appear blunt and to dismiss what you say, but I say this with respect, and only want for good things for the KYIL tribe.

MAC

 

[MakingAComeback]

-Work unbelievably hard in the gym for 3 months straight, cutting the whole time
-Schedule a series of professional shoots, with an improved physique, and my hair transplant grown further. Push the boat out and stand the fuck out.
-Do a significant amount of tattooing

3 months is not enough, not even when you're planning to take some sort of steroids. To achieve an elite body you just need more time. You are right that your "species" isn't as desired hence you need a better body than the races that get desired more. You will see massive improvements if you work your ass off for 3 months but please don't put a time on evolving your body.

You mentioned you are about to quit the apps which I feel will do you well. There's no need to spend more money in the short term on improving your profile. Based on what you've been posting I assume you've spent loads on boosts, and shoots, ... Use this extra money for other things such as upgrading your style, business, diet, some savings, and travel, ... The photo shoot is cool once you've achieved a look that you believe is good enough to get good dating results. Once again, there is no specific time for this.

Please don't get tattoos just for girls and please don't get any meaningless tattoos. I've just got mine and I'm super happy about what it stands for. A tattoo won't look exactly like you planned it to look. Mine looks a little worse than I had in mind (I still think it's an 8/10). Girls prefer the meaning behind the tattoos without you having to lie instead of you just rocking 20 tattoos suddenly. These things will stay on your body for your entire life, make sure your decision is wise.


I agree that you have a tough time as a low SMV man. I respect your hard work and I'm interested to see what you can make of yourself in the upcoming period.

You now have all the info to improve your looks, there are no more secrets. Your first big challenge is to max out everything you can. The challenge after is to turn from logical (all the theory about dating, looks, ...) into fun and flirty. The last one isn't just knowing some funny lines but it's your complete vibe. Don't underestimate how difficult it is to transform your vibe.

I think you have the capability to pull this all of. I am going to repeat myself for the last time. There are no set timers to reach a certain goal. If you do everything diehard, you might achieve some goals before your deadline and some will still be after your deadline. Don't bash your head if you have done all you can and something takes a bit longer. I'm a little afraid that you hang on certain thresholds too hard, this is limiting your progress. My body started growing hard last month because I just felt happier and free, too strict goals limit a free (growth) mindset. Good luck!

Great points here.

Tattoos for girls:

OK, I wlll think more deeply about this and I will just pause for a while.

But we are agreed, the body is a priority and will need to basically become an obsession like Chris from GLL used to have.

And that's OK, what else can I do

Thanks man I will keep at it. BTW, I record all my dates, I am very hard working and have applied everything and I even got better, improved vibe, etc.

Remember when you read this log it's a person who is going hard as hell and is doing nothing but trying to become a success.

But I accept your point, you are right on many things here.

Thanks as ever for your thoughts it means a lot to me, I want you to know that

Ravi

 

[Holden]

Like many others have said, zoom out a bit and look what you accomplished this year: 9 new lays, just one short of your goal. I remember thinking (and posting) that 10 lays/year from your starting position was too ambitious, and look how close you got to your goal. Getting 90% of the way there isn't even worth calling it a failure.

The way you phrase your latest posts, it sounds like even if you had met your goal, you still wouldn't've been happy.

This game is dangerous because it's inherently emotional. For example, flakes can still make me angry. And once you reach a certain level, that level instantly normalizes. It's like the hedonic treadmill on steroids. You wouldn't believe how quickly the high of having regular threesomes faded away. And I'm looking for the next big thing already, and feeling like a failure when it doesn't work out.

It seems like you've reached a level where you can get laid regularly, a level that seemed unattainable to you a few years back, and now it's become your new normal so now this feels like failure. But it's not.

You (and I) need to constantly force yourself to see the bigger picture and look at things logically. Look where you started and where you are now.

Btw, I completely agree with the points you've made, and I recognize that you've worked harder than probably anyone else on the forum for the results you've gotten.

But there is this undercurrent of negativity and bitterness that permeates your latest posts so that even though you make good points, the way you bring them up reveals something about your process.

You can take all these points about low SMV and looksmaxxing to heart while also celebrating your success.

I know that's easier said than done, but it's absolutely critical for your mental health to keep perspective.

You need to clearly define a win condition, a black-and-white benchmark to measure your progress & success.

I thought your benchmark was 10 lays for 2022. You got to 9. So why aren't you celebrating? Because you fell 1 short?

 

[MakingAComeback]

Like many others have said, zoom out a bit and look what you accomplished this year: 9 new lays, just one short of your goal. I remember thinking (and posting) that 10 lays/year from your starting position was too ambitious, and look how close you got to your goal. Getting 90% of the way there isn't even worth calling it a failure.

The way you phrase your latest posts, it sounds like even if you had met your goal, you still wouldn't've been happy.

This game is dangerous because it's inherently emotional. For example, flakes can still make me angry. And once you reach a certain level, that level instantly normalizes. It's like the hedonic treadmill on steroids. You wouldn't believe how quickly the high of having regular threesomes faded away. And I'm looking for the next big thing already, and feeling like a failure when it doesn't work out.

It seems like you've reached a level where you can get laid regularly, a level that seemed unattainable to you a few years back, and now it's become your new normal so now this feels like failure. But it's not.

You (and I) need to constantly force yourself to see the bigger picture and look at things logically. Look where you started and where you are now.

Btw, I completely agree with the points you've made, and I recognize that you've worked harder than probably anyone else on the forum for the results you've gotten.

But there is this undercurrent of negativity and bitterness that permeates your latest posts so that even though you make good points, the way you bring them up reveals something about your process.

You can take all these points about low SMV and looksmaxxing to heart while also celebrating your success.

I know that's easier said than done, but it's absolutely critical for your mental health to keep perspective.

You need to clearly define a win condition, a black-and-white benchmark to measure your progress & success.

I thought your benchmark was 10 lays for 2022. You got to 9. So why aren't you celebrating? Because you fell 1 short?

Thank you for your post, man.

Great post overall, and many excellent points.

You know I value your opinion greatly, think a lot of you, and given we have met and know each other beyond the forum, we can share our thoughts as men who have sincerely done the work and have actually been there.

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. I am actually working on my subconscious, beliefs, and healing quite a lot.

So overall, yes, you are correct and I can humbly admit that I do align with the thrust of the sentiment you express.

BUT

VANITY METRICS

I would like to express myself and share deeper. This is my opinion, and I may be wrong, but I cannot lie to you and tell you anything other than the truth and how I feel. Otherwise, what is the point?

9 LAYS IS A VANITY METRIC, IT MEANS NOTHING

Why?

Because the quality of these women was fucking horrendous.

I’m talking fat, unattractive undesirable, and with a litany of head issues – I’ve had clinically diagnosed sociopaths in my bed, women who really did look quite repellent, very overweight (and even obese) chicks, and apart from 1 girl…..

I felt absolutely no attraction to these people. NONE.

I did it because I knew my brain, body and soul needed the experience and I had to do what it takes, lower my standards, and just become better.

A real source of frustration for me is when people I do admire, respect, and care about sincerely tell me that because I have got the lays, that things will work out just fine for me.

Yet, I am the only who has to look in the mirror the next day when I’ve gained nothing but a notch with a chick who no man in his right mind, with any sort of standards, would even send a text message to, let alone fuck.

If you saw images of the women I’ve slept with, you would cringe and possibly be really shocked and even somewhat ashamed of me.

Hence, these notions of the lays having taken place being a sign that I have in fact taken my seat, are so far off the mark it triggers emotions in me, makes me angry, makes me want to push back and ask people just how I am supposed to be happy about this situation?

My fundamental argument:

The heart wants what it wants. That is it.

Low quality lays leave me feeling cold. Dating women who do not have any attraction for me leaves me numb.

And THIS is the norm for me. THIS is the experience I have, month in, month out.

That is maybe not rational, maybe not sensible in big picture terms, but it’s how I feel.

If you’re in the market for a samurai sword because your heart longs for the East, and I hand you a swiss army knife and tell you that you should be happy with that, you can be polite, put on a smile and tell everyone that everything is ok

But as you elude to, Holden, this game is tough, and the fire is coming

And when that fire comes, you will be forced to confront reality and TELL THE TRUTH

The truth is, this is not what I want, and why people do not understand my situation is:

-Missing the QUALITATIVE component: going on dates all the time with women who feel no attraction to you is not pleasant and when this is the norm for your life, it causses tension within you
-Lays with very undesirable and unattractive women IS NO SALVE, it DOES NOT soothe, it does not heal. It is fucking pointless.

The problem then is when these two factors converge, and this is the norm, thats the moment you enter the prison cell.

That cell is where no man in their heart of hearts wants to be.

Now I hope you understand why I express my dissatisfaction.

Even to have sex with ugly and obese women is fucking mind bendingly difficult and takes 40-80hrs a week.

How can I live like this?

As such, there is just one answer.

To improve myself until it’s no longer the case.

Ravi

 

[Thrice]

white & black men

I'm fucked

 

[MakingAComeback]

white & black men

I'm fucked

No, you're not.

And neither am I.

You first have to test your product: put it to the market countless times.

You got matches and a date proposal within a short time of changing your pics. I didn't get one match for the first few months and it took 5 months to get a date.

Your product may actually perform better than mine, remember, you even got approached by a girl in a club. That's very good! You're also not Indian, and have quite solid looks.

My product DIDN'T perform as I'd liked, and rather than giving in, I have said - I'll improve my product by any mean necessary

You have a shot, but you will have to do a lot of work. This is why we tell guys just to do the numbers game. Because we need to push them to take action and try.

If you try and try, and try for atleast a year or two, and still have garbage results, that is time for extreme measures. In the interim, just be aware of how this goes.

I myself am likely going to have to go into extreme measures. Obsession with the gym, cosmetic procedures, and so on.

But you're not there yet. You have just began the process of putting your product to market. You need to gather data first.

If I am to serve you, I must tell you the truth:

If you want success in this game, and you're low SMV, you'll need warrior spirit and to find drive inside you. This game is not for low SMV men, it's for people who are able to pass the looks threshold within a woman's mind.

.....You may be able to do that. You are not in the position where you can tell yet.

Only way to survive this is through developing true warrior spirit. You'll need to become a hard worker and a winner in life.

The dating and sex game is not one that all men can win. But every man CAN make improvements and experience a little better than they've had.

I did, so how can you be fucked?

I am worse looking than you (trust me on this) so how can you be fucked? You should be able to, in time, get far better results than I did.

Drive will be mandatory. It may take a while to find, but once you find your drive, anything is possible.

No one is fucked, Mo. Even I I will find a way to win, just expect me to have to grind for years and maybe have to get surgeries and such.

THATS WHAT IT TAKES

If you want something, bad, you must be willing to die for that thing.

I didn't design this world, I didn't put some men in the world with a desire in their heart to be loved and appreciated, and then give them a basically borderline impossible situation to climb out of.

It's akin to what David Goggins calls "being born in the sewer"

You put a low SMV guy in this game and its like putting a helpless baby in the sewer and saying "There you are, now go make your life turn out ok"

It's not an easy task, unfortunately. But I am also a believer in God, and my belief in God is cast-iron - I will die for it a million times over and I speak truth in this life, do not lie, do not cheat, do not take the wrong path and I also care about my fellow man because I seek redemption and for my soul to contribute to God's plan and to reduce the evil, suffering, and pain in this world. I will take the pain on myself and I will find a way to still be a good person and serve other people, so in my life, I can breathe my dying breath and just know I have done what I can do in order to reduce the pain that is in this world.

No way would God create us in this world and make us do nothing but suffer for the rest of our lives.

I will never believe that for a second for as long as I live. There is simply no way.

I will never truly understand why people like us have to go through all this, but it is my belief that we are having to pay karmic debt, and perhaps we have done something bad in past lives. I am not sure. But I know I am being made to pay a price for something.

Despite that, if we rise above this and find a way to still be a force for good in this world, no matter the punishment we must take, in the final analysis, we will know the truth: we did our best.

There is the possibility that I could pull this journey off.

It is not likely, and there is a very strong chance that I will fail.

So be it. We stlll have one choice:

Will I be a victim to my circumstance?

Or will I exercise my final human freedom: the decision to gut up and fight.

I am going to tell you that I think we should fight. If the universe wants me to stop - it is going to have to fucking kill me.

If we don't try, Mohammed, we will get old and we will die like this.

We will get old and we will weep.

If we give in, Mo, then are we even living brother?

Or are we just breathing, waiting for death to come?

If you ask me, if we give in, then we may as well be dead, because we are not living.

Whilst I am breathing, whilst I am in this world, whilst I am still alive and blood courses through my veins and I can draw just ONE breath into my lungs geuss what I am going to do?

I AM GOING TO GRIND UNTIL I AM FUCKING DEAD, BURIED AND GONE

If I can find a woman who is a good soul, who wll love me, and who will build something with me, then my dream has become a reality and what I desire will have come to fruition.

....Who else in self improvement would have had a journey like mine?

My entire journey, I have had to put in sickening levels of work and get fucking shit shovelled in my face, only to see men all around me get rewarded by the Universe despite not having done jack shit to deserve it.

The fact that I keep showing up is a source of pride for me.

Even if the road ahead is borderline impossible, Mohammed, frankly for me it feels like it is and there is only a minuscule possibility of success, if we could outwork God's plan for us and pull off the impossible..............you know what that makes us?

Some of the most legendary people who ever did this shit.

And they can write books about us in 20 years time for all the success we will achieve.

NO ONE IS FUCKED

NO ONE

NO ONE IS BEYOND REDEMPTION

EVERY HUMAN BEING IN THIS WORLD HAS A CHANCE TO TRY THEIR BEST AND ACCOMPLISH THEIR DREAMS

If I can't achieve my goal in this life, then I will try again in the next one.

Sending you strength.

I believe in you and love you brother.

Ravi

 

[natedawg]

Man, I was feeling this post right up until about mid way where I felt this impression of defeat/negativity coated in hard work. (AskTheDom Get the axe on standby)

Because our relationship is growing, I have to do my part to make sure you continue to soar in a positive way. You're here for me when I need it, and I want to return the favor. So I have a few a few thoughts in no particular order:

1. I absolutely agree with you on the SMV stuff. The fact is there are 'macro trends' when it comes to this stuff that can define how the majority of people act towards/think about a particular demographic. Even when it comes to dating.

This actually reminds me a lot of the older, non pc version of Mark Manson's Models where he talked about the break down of different races when it comes to polarization. As you can suspect, it broke down among similar lines:

1. White men
2a Latino men
2b Black men
3. Indian/Asian men

Even in this scale, he mentioned that black men naturally incorporate the highest level of polarization because we will be instantly viewed under a positive (athletic, rapper, masculine vibe) or a negative (criminal - black men are HIGHLY associated with criminality).

Regarding indian/asian men - I think the low SMV is simply associated with the fact that there's no big, overall negative connotation with these races. I think for the most part, they're just viewed as safe. Yet the safe feeling doesn't necessarily create the polarization needed for attraction. In my opinion, I think this is not a bad place to be, but a neutral place to be.

I think the overraching theme with this stuff is that regardless of your race or SMV, you have to stick out in your own way. Like with asians, most of them are not athletic/tattooed. So for the asian man who does that, he's going to stick out. I'd say the same thing is true for indians. There's a HUGE population of them in Seattle, and most are similar: In tech. Making a lot of money. Not in shape. So if there's a jacked up, edgy indian who completely defies the stereotype, what does that mean for his SMV? It skyrockets because he's not like 99% of others in his demographic.

I say this to say, I think it's time to focus in. Just like in my thread where I got a lot of suggestions about men who look like me & how they're killing it... I think it's time to get a collage together of all the indian heart throbs out there & see what you can swipe from them. Yes, we can only control so much with our looks, but as someone has told me, I have no idea what my potential even looks like until I get rid of this facial fat.

I think a lot of this attraction stuff ultimately comes down to two things:
- Fulfilling what women instinctively associate your race with (In my case: athleticism, style, masculinity, assertiveness)

OR...

- Defying what women instinctively associate your race with (Not a threat, tech nerd, timid, etc.)

You're doing great work, brother. Like many have said here, take a sec to pull back & see the big picture. I love how open & raw you are, but when I see that undercurrent of negativity, it really makes it hard to pay attention to everything else.

Overall, I won't try to convince you that you're wrong on any of this stuff, but my hope is that you can frame it in the right way. I'm not white, but I'm not Indian so I know I'll never understand your fight 100%. We'll never understand the universe or why things are the way they are, but I do know one thing: You have the potential to become exceptional. And you will because 90% of men have no interest in doing so.

Recalibrate. Reload. Re-engage. We have work to do, brother.

 

[natedawg]

white & black men

I'm fucked

No sir. You're not fucked at all.

The only ones who are fucked are those who quit.

You can not lose as long as you don't quit.

 

[MakingAComeback]

Alright.

Worked hard, feeling shit, but did my best

I trained my fucking ass off in the gym, really beasting, grunting and letting out some war cries lol.

I will have to push as hard as I humanly can in the gym. It must be done. There is nothing else I can do.

I must dramatically improve my physique.

No other option now. It's that, or I I will go my whole life having had to settle for women I am in NO WAY attracted to. It will just be me drowning in a sea of fucking fat, lmfao!!!

No way man.........

I will have to look myself in the mirror and acknowledge that, damn.

My dating life, generally speaking, has never been something I’ve never been happy with and over the course of my journey, it has been a persistent thorn in the side and brought endless bullshit in it’s wake.

But you have to go through this to learn, man.

It can be a bummer, for sure.

What stings is having to engage with the darker part of reality, see the injustice, see the unfairness, and gut up and deal with the insane asymmetry and unequal distributions of outcomes.

It also baffles me that despite losing almost 100lbs, as a 6ft5 man I am basically unable to make it happen with a chick you could even describe as average - lol.

It is really confusing and throws you for a loop!

When you’re out there in the world and heading around, being around people, it is perfectly human and normal to feel attraction to others and to have some semblance of desire. When I see attractive women around, of course I would love to introduce myself and see if there is any chance she would like me.

When that hope does die, it is a sad thing.

But that's OK. That unfortunately is life. I will still keep trying and no matter what happens I will make the most of it.

It;s ok

Jan 1st all the dating apps get deleted and the true gym grind will begin.

It'll take a year of ass-busting work. So be it.

My dating life is basically destined to be the horseshit that it is, until I am able to make myself attractive.

So I guess I better get to work. No more of this crap now.

MAC

 

[colgate / bulldog]

I will have to push as hard as I humanly can in the gym. It must be done. There is nothing else I can do.

I must dramatically improve my physique.

So I guess I better get to work. No more of this crap now.

mood and same

it must be done.

the market is the market

 

[MakingAComeback]

I will have to push as hard as I humanly can in the gym. It must be done. There is nothing else I can do.

I must dramatically improve my physique.

So I guess I better get to work. No more of this crap now.

mood and same

it must be done.

the market is the market

YUP

I am still processing this, bro, this is a new conclusion for me - I will be truthful, I thought for me I would be able to get some success with women through the process I designed for myself. That was mass exposure, approaching, dating, and just looking "above average" like I was told. I am taking game seriously and am ingraining that into my psyche. All these things HAVE helped but didn't give me what I was looking for. That is, to be able to date and have intimacy with women who are, at a minimum, at least average in looks. My average lay was a 4. I prefer not to recall them............

I had to come to this conclusion through epic, epic level grinding. The penny dropped a while ago man and I kinda realised, yeah, for the most part, women are not into me at all and my prospects for future dating are looking pretty bad to be honest with you.

BE GRATEFUL AS FUCK YOU'RE 26

I'm 31 dude and no one told me this shit. I had to learn about product development myself. Fuck me the clock is now ticking. I basically have another year of grinding just to get to the starting line.

I hope you learn from my experience little bro and I hope you can have an elite dating life.

To see you achieve that, in many ways, my own hard work will have been worth it.

You WILL suceed man, I am fucking counting on you.

Ravi