MakingAComeback said:
The lower your SMV, the more Game you need. If they're not going to be attracted physically, and crucially, if there are virtually endless reasons why, in her own head, she should not invest in you, then the only thing you have left, is Game. And it needs to be rock solid in a manner that enables ine to evoke emotion and create sparks.
It helped me a lot to understand, that the rules in the SMP are different for different men. Low SMV men, need 10/10 Game, 10/10 Confidence, and need to maxx themselves out physically. And then......hope that the Universe just lines up.
Your end goal is raising your value as a man. The more value and attractiveness you have, the less you need to use game to get someone in bed.
That comes with the following caveat though.
If you’re a high value man, you have shit to do. You’re busy. Your time is valuable. You have way too many things going on in your life to specifically care about giving someone “wild rides, excitement, and stimulation” in exchange for pussy. You just don’t give a fuck – she’s free to take it or leave it.
Another way to put it – your goal is to be a high SMV man. So start behaving like one. Step by step, adjusting as you go. A high SMV man won’t care about giving her “wild rides, excitement, and stimulation” because he’s got shit to do, and he’s got options.
In the end you gotta find what works for you. Girls wanna fuck too. And they wanna fuck someone good. Nothing wrong with doing interesting and exciting things with girls. At the end of the day, if you have comfort, trust & chemistry, there is no need for constant excitement and wild rides.
The way you worded it initially was wrong, which is what prompted my original response. Because I also had a phase where I was thinking that way, and it’s a wrong/incomplete way of viewing the whole courtship process.
Holden said:
It actually *is* all about wild rides, excitement, and stimulation.
Women want a "well-mannered, polite" man? Don't want to derail this log too much but that's literally based on nothing except what you want to be true.
Every study, every anecdotal experience, every bit of common sense tells you that girls *don't* like "polite, well-mannered" guys, certainly not in the beginning stages of courtship.
It seems you’re equating politeness and manners with being a “mr. nice guy”? I actually had a pretty long list of traits that women are attracted to in my post. Well-mannered was only one point in that list, and it’s far from the most important one. So IDK why you singled that out specifically, but sure let's expand on that.
Everyone in this forum should be striving to become a high value man. Good manners – in addition (!) to the traits that I mentioned in my original post – are an absolute necessity if you ever want to go from being seen a boy/dude/guy just dating around, to being seen as an actual high status man. You won't have any class without manners. And you won't reach your real, peak male value without them.
Now, when I say “well mannered” I just mean basic etiquette. On their own, they won’t get you anywhere. But combine it with the other traits that women find attractive, add some game (!) to the mix, and you’re golden.
Examples - taking her coat & opening the cab door for her, ordering a cab when she leaves, getting the bill by default (unless she wants to split, this is country- and age-dependent though). Not negging too aggressively, not being a social fucktard, not using negative humor, looking clean and groomed, dressed just slightly better than everyone else in the establishment. Not grabbing her ass like a hungry teenager when you start making out. Common sense applies - if you're 25 and you took a 19-year old on a date, offering to split the bill is like buying yourself a one-way ticket to clownsville. Same with 30y/25y, etc.
You get the idea.
These small, basic, but very important details is what I'd categorize under "manners". None of this has anything to do with “being a mr. nice guy”. But it has everything to do with being a man who respects himself, and is perceived by the others around him as such. Also, this becomes increasingly important as you age. But the sooner you start doing this, the better.
Holden said:
Meanwhile the guys who fuck the most are degen drug dealers, club promoters, bartenders, bouncers, rockstars, ultra-scumbags like Scotty.
It's funny you list a bunch of dead-end, on avg. low-paying jobs (dealers, promoters, bartenders, bouncers) together with being an accomplished/famous musician & entertainer (rockstars). And then being an ultra-scumbag? You absolutely do not need to be one of these to fuck a lot. You absolutely can have manners while being any one of these, and still slay pussy left and right. In fact, having your manners on point would actually work in your favor, because you'd be breaking the stereotype if you're in any of those professions.
What the dead-end jobs you listed all have in common is that they spend a lot of time being around women and have some status in the nightlife community. That's all. Find a way to put yourself around women in your life (e.g. join a salsa class, yoga class, pottery course) and there you go, don't even need any status.
Holden said:
The harsh truth is that guys would benefit more from being a toxic asshole than from being polite. It's not something we like to hear, but aren't spaces like these dedicated to uncovering uncomfortable truths, being 'redpilled'?
Agreed! Most guys on this forum are too far on the "nice and polite" side of the equation. To fix that, the pendulum needs to swing too far into the "dickhead" area, before settling somewhere in the middle long-term. Nothing harsh about this, just how the world works. Shouldn't be seen as a permanent thing, just a phase you go through when you find where the boundaries of your social interactions lie.
Holden said:
My ex-gf was a doctor, and one of the reasons she liked me was that I was the only guy she'd ever met who didn't completely kiss her ass about that.
Her: "I'm a doctor."
Every other guy: "wow a doctor!!! you must be really smart, that's amazing!!!!"
Me: "cool... so I'm guessing you don't have time to read a lot of literature? What's your favorite book?"
Now instead of me being a good little puppy and kissing her ass for being so smart, she's the one trying to win me over.
Yeah, the "polite" thing is to acknowledge the brains and work ethic it takes to become a doctor. But everyone does that already.
Don't worry, there's plenty of polite guys going around, she's not gonna die if you're a little bit of an asshole.
Yup, we do things a little differently.
I see that example of a soft neg as being a little try-hard. It contradicts itself, and comes off as strange. Stating that she doesn't have time to read, and then asking what her favorite book is? Obviously, you're trying to bring her down a little, take her off the pedestal. A little too obvious and not subtle enough for my tastes.
If you have a strong story about who you are, what you do, and what you're striving for that portrays you in an attractive way. A story that you actually believe. A story that you can communicate to her. Then you're standing strong on your own pedestal. You don't need to bring anyone else down. And should have no issues with acknowledging that her being a doctor is pretty cool. Making her feel good about it, without any ass-kissing on your part or anything like that. And also without latching on the first "weakness" of hers that you can think of, to bring her down to earth a little.
The key is that your own pedestal has the be higher than her's from the get-go. If it is, there's no point in bringing anyone down. They're already looking up to you. And even if it might seem that it isn't, with a strong enough story you can make it seem that way. Marketing yourself and your potential. If you don't yet have the achievements to back everything up.
And then you'd save all the negs & teases for other things such as her music taste, or whatever else you can latch on during the conversation. In a more subtle, playful, less-obviously-negging kind of way.
For most guys reading, the truth is going to be somewhere between my approach and yours. I’m coming from a position of confidence, experience, and outcome independence. I’m also in my 30’s, white, tall, handsome, fit, intelligent, educated, speak a literal mountain of languages, lived in 8 countries, dress well, groomed, have my own business with 1 exit under the belt, etc.
I wasn’t always like this, and I was struggling with exactly the same issues that a lot of you are struggling with a few years ago as well.
But at this point in my life, I have it much, much, much easier than most of you guys. If you’re 25 and broke, or just beginning to take care of yourself, or you’re a virgin. Then of course don’t fucking go learning how to be a proper gentleman. Will get you nowhere. In fact, most of the stuff that I wrote here won't apply. There are levels to this game. You gotta be realistic where you’re at, and focus on it one step at a time.
