Manga 🇰🇷: October Update

[Manganiello]

I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you're on a date every day, how come there's comparatively so few lays? Especially in Asia? If I recall you had great success in Canada so your results should 10x in Asia.

Nah you're not. There was a while where I was just going through the motions.



I think guys who have never been to Asia don't really appreciate it. Maybe like Philippines or Thailand is something different because youre a ticket to radically change her quality of life.

In developed countries doesn't mean as much.

Volume is higher because I'm in a massive fucking city. But even then you date who's in your sector.


My conversion rates are exactly what they were in Canada.

Swipes to matches. Same
Matches to contacts. Same
Contacts to dates. Same
Dates to lays tho...

If anything that should be higher. Because girls follow your lead more.

I was just being sexually unavailable.

Every time I've tried to pull I've pulled. Which says something.

 

[Manganiello]

So this is a semi journal entry/post.



LONG STORY SHORT.

Super fun weekend getaway with Viet girl.

Even tho she invited me to see her friends. Im questioning her commitment level.

Im actually ok girlfriending up at this point. And I'd prefer it to be her. She's extremely cute. But she just gives so many mixed signals I have no idea where she stands.



WEEKEND OUTSIDE OF SEOUL





So it's been week 6 with the Viet girl. Last weekend we went to Gwangju to meet her friends. Which means we took a 3hr bus, slept over for 2 nights and just did a bunch of random fun things. They all spoke Vietnamese and a few spoke minimal English so I was basically just listening the whole time.

We got super drunk at a beer festival. Met some city councilor gave us all free drinks. And then went out to a club.








CLUBBING


Clubbing with the chick was born annoying and gratifying. The guys would skip a lot of girls but wanna get close with her. So they would try and make a move with her and dance closer, but she would refuse their advances and then just dance closer to me or just straight up makeout with me while they're trying to talk to her.



BANGING HER BESIDE HER SLEEPING FRIENDS


That night. 5 of us are asleep in the bedroom, it's Korea so basically everyone sleeps on the floor and is within touching distance from where me and the Viet girl were sleeping. I woke up slightly earlier and put my arm around her, she started stroking it. Shes awake. So out of curiousity. I put my hand underneath her shirt and start rubbing her nipple. No resistance. I grab it no resistance. She starts twitching from it. So I grab her ass. She's not wearing anything underneath. So I put my fingers inside her. Shes totally silent. I lick her shoulder and neck. No noise. We're spooning so I think I can put in. I reach down put myself in and quietly fuck her.

Man it was the hottest thing ever. 3 of her close friends and none of them know we're banging right beside them.

Hot as fuck.

It's 10am so somebody starts stretching as they're awake. No idea if they heard us. But it was fun nonetheless.



---



RELATIONSHIP THOUGHTS


So as great as this girl is. It's been 6 weeks
I feel like it's progressing well. But unlike all the other girls I've been with it feels like I want something more serious than she does. She's 28, usually as chicks get around 30 they're more serious or atleast explicit on what they want.

But for her I have no idea. Besides inviting me to meet her friends she hasn't invited me out to any dates or initiated any text. I'm not sure if that's her personality or if it's just a low investment thing.

So that's what I'm stuck on.

She's extremely cute. Under 5 ft. Weighs 95 lbs. And puts a lot of attention into how she looks. So she's great and I always have fun with her. Actually everything is great. It just feels like she's not investing a lot.

Which is fine you could say cuz I can go out and bang other chicks. Which I have. But at some point If I'm seeing a girl I don't want it to be casual the whole time especially if it stretches out a long time.

I know there's some guys who want a giant Harem or to maintain 3 plates at a time. But to me thats never been an end goal. Maybe a fun mid term goal. But not an end game thing.

...

So I almost feel like I have to explicitly ask her what her commitment level. Because I have no idea if it's high or low. And I can't tell if that's just how she is or not.

Ive seen how she texts and how she does stuff with friends. She almost never initiates anything. so it's plausible. I just want to know where I stand with her.

Because at this point. I can go and spike my volume again and fuck a bunch of random chicks each week.

But also at this point of the game. Doing the same dates. Meeting the same kinds of women and fucking a bunch isn't as fun when I was noob and pussy was some magical quest. I have no problem fucking girls. And I'm in Korea so even the average girls are above average.

Just I feel like I shouldn't be this uncertain with a girl I like.

...

I think the other thing too. Is since I came to Korea to date and I sectioned off a large portion of my life to bang chicks. If I'm not sure what my relationship status is that kind of puts me in limbo.

 

[Holden]

But for her I have no idea. Besides inviting me to meet her friends she hasn't invited me out to any dates or initiated any text. I'm not sure if that's her personality or if it's just a low investment thing.

If this is literally the only point of doubt you have then I'd say it's just her personality. In other words, not a sign of low investment.

I'm quite the dominant guy and I struggled with the same thing you're struggling with, with multiple girls. Most notably Movie Girl. One day I just called her out on it: "hey if you want to meet me, you're allowed to text first/initiate/ask for it, you know that right?"

She replied "okay, I just don't want to bother you."

Sometimes girls don't initiate for the strangest (and most positive - for you) reasons. Another girl simply enjoyed being submissive like that, waiting for me to initiate everything but then enthusiastically agreeing when I do.

You can flip the script by giving them a "homework assignment", literally tell them you want them to initiate for the next date. You keep the dominant frame but also get her to initiate this way.

If you do all these things and she's still enthusiastic as ever, dates are fun, etc, don't worry about her "lack of investment" because it's probably just something else you haven't uncovered yet, like her viewing it as part of her submission to you.

 

[Manganiello]

But for her I have no idea. Besides inviting me to meet her friends she hasn't invited me out to any dates or initiated any text. I'm not sure if that's her personality or if it's just a low investment thing.

If this is literally the only point of doubt you have then I'd say it's just her personality. In other words, not a sign of low investment.

I'm quite the dominant guy and I struggled with the same thing you're struggling with, with multiple girls. Most notably Movie Girl. One day I just called her out on it: "hey if you want to meet me, you're allowed to text first/initiate/ask for it, you know that right?"


If you do all these things and she's still enthusiastic as ever, dates are fun, etc, don't worry about her "lack of investment" because it's probably just something else you haven't uncovered yet, like her viewing it as part of her submission to you.

That's more or less what I was thinking.

She's been hard to read from day 1.

When I pulled her back. She hid behind a pillar while I was unlocking the door.

The first 5x I pulled her back, she would tell me ok let's go. I'll go to Sinchon (her neighborhood) and you go to Deongchon (my neighborhood). She didn't give a clear answer at all for awhile.

Then I had this text from her 2 weeks ago...
View attachment 1

Just think about the response. All the guys here gave me answers along the lines of only "punish her, only text logistics here on out", "next her"... And these aren't morons btw. These are 100+ lay guys telling me this.


So.. I thought the best route was to tease her...




Then I get the response (when and where?)

So I think it's just her non-initiation in texting and her teasing that makes her hard AF to read.

Like I said she's the most attractive girl I've gotten off of bumble and she checks all my boxes. It's just this part of her is hard to read. Idk where she stands and I feel like I need to directly ask her because her behaviour is so confusing.

 

[jackBruh]

It's just this part of her is hard to read. Idk where she stands and I feel like I need to directly ask her because her behaviour is so confusing.

This...
All of this will be solved if you just talk to her about it. Ask where she's at. You'll either get a satisfactory answer or not. But then you can make your own decision with all the information

 

[Manganiello]

jackBruh resolution is better than uncertainty. Even if it's not the answer I want. Im gonna ask her by this weekend.



+1 Korean chick


-- I cancelled on this chick twice. But she persisted.
-- 2nd date lay.






1st date


Quick pull. Went to one bar. Got one drink and pulled her back after she started telling me how much she likes me.

Took her home. She was expecting me to make a move, but was slightly resistant.

My bedroom game is not a weak point.


But there was a hard no around anything beyond an intense make out. And pressing my knee into her crotch.

So I just decided to not be an autist and let the full lay happen later.

I could've thrown her on the bed and pinned her down. But it was whatever. She literally said 'Ill invite you to my place and we'll fuck this weekend".

... But I already had a full weekend. So had to schedule a different time.



2nd date


Being an ass


Scheduled 1 last week. But cancelled on her cuz I wanted to see the Viet girl instead.

Had a date set for Monday. But I never confirmed it. So she texted me later Monday "looks like we both forgot". Eloquently giving me an out, to see her again.

So I thought alright. "I'm off work this week, when do you want to meet?".

She texts back the next morning "I'm free today ".

Ok cool.

So we set up a date.


The date


Go to a shitty bar but super cheap bar. Literally 20 seconds from my place.
Get drunk.

I didn't care. I had a very intellectual conversation about The State of Modern Journalism. Looking back I broke a lot of my rules about conversation but still did the right thing.


(Not that it matters much. She was already DTF)


Teased a ton. Got her to think about sex. And list all the guys she finds hot. And then I finished my beer. Drinking it really slowly and staring at her. She said "omg. Why are you so cute when you drink like that."

Alright. That's reason enough to pull.

"Alright let's go".


Escalation + sex


Took her straight back. 20 seconds. Threw her on the bed and made out.

Anyway shes one of those girls who likes to be choked hard. So I did. Pretty violent. Honestly it's not my thing. I like slow make out sex. With the occasional ruthless bang.

But she wanted ruthless the whole time. She wanted anal. But I already came so I just fingered her ass instead. Honestly anal never turned me on. I never tried it. Never wanted to. But I thought ok, "let's just try it". Put 3 fingers in her ass and she was basically loud af. Too loud honestly.

Anal doesn't turn me on. But seeing a girl lose control of herself was a turn on. So it worked out lol.

Anyway she left saying she wants to be my sex toy. I haven't texted her back. Maybe I will. Idk.


Tbh the whole time I was fucking her, I thought this would be funner with the Viet girl.



concluding thoughts

Viet girl.

I'm giving us 5 days break. I really want to see her like today. But all this game has made me perpetually aware of neediness. And seeing her today is (probably) ok. But maybe it's best not to.



dating coach input


So hung out with Jack. We basically shot the shit from 9:30pm to fuckin 4:30am. Lol but he was looking at the texts between me and Viet girl and just said. Ya she seems interested.

Viet girl has a massive tiktok with 10 million views. But it's never her showing off or seeking attention. It's just normal person shit. So that dodges a red flag.

Honestly. I'll be bummed if she doesn't want to girlfriend up. But I know myself well enough I'd find that hidden gear and find another height for dating.

The worst rejections make me better in the long run. After being very painful. So it will probably work out either way. I think at this point I think of dating as the


Same dates
Same spikes
Same stories
Same escalations
Same pulls
Same fucks

Is nice to do like seeing a movie. Legitimately fun. Some movies are good. Some are bad.

But I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.



We'll see how fast that light comes.

 

[Zug]

But she wanted ruthless the whole time. She wanted anal. But I already came so I just fingered her ass instead. Honestly anal never turned me on. I never tried it. Never wanted to. But I thought ok, "let's just try it". Put 3 fingers in her ass and she was basically loud af. Too loud honestly.

Great report, this was hot AF.

 

[Manganiello]

So had the talk with the Viet girl.


Holden it wasn't a submissive thing. But like a caution thing around getting too involved too fast.

jackBruh here's the result of that convo.


long story short



My suspicions were all right. She likes me but shes not totally committed.

She had to think about the idea of a relationship for 50 minutes. She took the question seriously. Eventually saying "yes" but let's try it for 3 months.



---
the date

Date was good.


Went for some really good Japanese food.

View attachment 1


Did some bowling.




And then went to a really intimate bar where we drank, talked and made out most of the time lol

After that we walked home and then I initiated the talk.

the talk

So... She said.
"Oh let's sit down".

Which I knew immediately meant. Alright this is gonna get complicated as fuck really fast.


She found herself wanting to call me today at work because she heard an Ed Sheeran song that reminded her of me. That's not nothing.


So her last bf. Was actually her fiance who cheated on her. So she has big trust issues. She said if I want to see other girls it's totally ok, but as soon as we're bf/gf shes nervous about it.

I was telling her. Relax were not getting married. This isn't that serious.

Then she said no it is. Because we can't see other people. We're getting older and for us to get married to a good person we need to spend time meeting a lot of people now.

Honestly I agree.

And the way she talked about it. I thought hmm maybe I do want you just being a plate.

But I was also remembering how dull the last handful of dates were. (And I was getting laid) and just how unexciting banging more Korean girls felt.

...


...


So my thoughts.

This is a major decision actually. Because this effectively says. I'm willing to stop gaming. And put this phase to an end (mostly). Because if this works out. I'm playing for keeps.


I think I was expecting her to be a definitive no or yes. I wasn't expecting a 70% yes.

And I didn't think about it that much. Besides she's the best girl I've gone on a date with out of maybe like 30 girls I've met here. And the last 4 lays I've had have been fun but also mildly ungtatifying.

Even Jack (dating coach friend) was telling me, "you should be feeling more excited" after I literally fucked a new girl 10 minutes before meeting him.

And my description was. "Ya it was mildly fun."

...

So I'm going to spend the next few days to think it through. 3 months is fine. But would I rather just have her as a plate? Idk man. I need some sharp level of clarity on this one.

I thought I knew. but like I said her level of seriousness rubbed off and now I'm thinking..ya fuck maybe I want that.

I think the level of intensity was going that way. She invites.me to see her friends. We're going on a weekend trip. It's like this was already going that direction.

But at the same time...



This feels heavy.


It doesn't feel light.


Im not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

 

[Hydro]

Just Chad doing Chad shit. Wondering if he should commit or not, it's like you've literally come a full 180 degrees of where you started.

Proud of you man! Keep it going.

 

[natedawg]

But at the same time...



This feels heavy.


It doesn't feel light.


Im not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

This here makes me think her 3 month suggestion was the right call. She probably saw this hesitancy in your body language as well. This at leaves everyone breathing room to see if it has potential without being too confining.

 

[Antonio44]

Honestly. I'll be bummed if she doesn't want to girlfriend up.

She said she's into it (more or less), and now you get a bit of jitters now you could have her (that's how my outsiders pov sees it). Or maybe you just like the chase, but I don't think it's that. I get what you're saying about if you get into a relationship then you want it to be for life, though I think that you can't know the answer to this now.

You don't know someone well enough for that until you've lived with them, loved them etc. So she has potential, you guys get along, why not give it a bash.

You could discover she has some weird quirk that's totally incompatible, or vice versa, but what's the worst outcome? You guys break up in a few months, you get your heart broken, and every time you see a banh mi it reminds you of her and you can never eat it again. Then you return to slaying asians.

 

[Manganiello]

it's like you've literally come a full 180 degrees of where you started.

Proud of you man! Keep it going

Thank you. This is an attitude change for sure. But I may not be done.

This here makes me think her 3 month suggestion was the right call

It's fine. But I think if you read the subtext, and what it possibly hints at. It's not as satisfying. She's on the fence. And she's compromising (to keep me possibly). But doing something she possibly doesn't want to do.

So. She needs to be more sure imo. I like her and everything. She's hot, funny and isn't retarded. But I don't want to play a weird game with her.

Then you return to slaying asians.

Ya basically. But I think the thing I'm realizing out of all of this is to be more deliberate.

I don't have problems getting dates here. At all.

But. I think like all of game and life really:

I need to strive for what I want. And not compromise.

And she needs to do the same. I see potential here. But if she doesn't, her cautiousness or even trust issues, is enough for me to back off a bit and find other chicks.

 

[Brother_Tucker]

Congratulations, you've hit that point. You know you can get laid but the whole thing feels like ground hog day where you do the same date over and over, you land the same punch lines and sort of lose the spark that made everything fun. You've hit a level of abundance where its no longer the focus of your life. Its a double edged sword. A lot of people would tell you to get your T levels checked if you're not consistently wanting every girl under the sun. What actually happens is that you eventually meet one of those really great matches, when you've done the work and hit self actualization and realise you deserve to have a good life, those actual sparks mean something. The community will say I'm describing onitus, but thats something for unexperienced guys. Those really great matches are rare and taking the time to see if they go somewhere is worth the investment.

From my experience, the talk always has to come from the girl when she is a 100% hell yes girl. For whatever abundance we get to experience by working on ourselves, it will never be to the level of an average girl with an ig. Even the very best of us will never really have the same access to sex as a 4 on the Internet. Because of that, the girl needs to be the one asking to forgo all of her options for you. The other way just doesn't work because she hasn't given up all other options in the same way when you ask her to be exclusive. This girl is cautious and wants you to make the first move, it might be a culture thing, but the talk has to come from them. If its anything less than a hell yes, you have to accept your closing the door to meet another really great match for a girl that hasn't picked you as her first choice. When those great matches fizzle out, it can take a long time to feel motivated to go back out there, it's part of the process but you are allowed to acknowledge that it sucked that it didn't work out. If this one doesn't, the next match might be even better. You've shared your vulnerability by saying I'm open to being exclusive. Don't feel bad about how you've played this if it doesn't work out. Just pat yourself on the back and realise you've reached a place most guys never get to in life and that you can start the search again whenever you're ready.

 

[Holden]

Personally I wouldn't do it if the girl is only 70% sure. But if this is your first girlfriend and it feels right why the fuck not, life is about living.

I "GF'd up" one of my very first lays and I don't regret it, they were 3 wonderful years full of learning experiences.

 

[Manganiello]

Brother_Tucker
100% agree with everything.

I think I reached that point. Found a girl I liked. But ya probably should've waited. Ideally, but it was from a place of (alright I'm tired of ramming randoms).

Unfortunately I feel like the conversation made it more complicated.


(#1) because it wasn't a clear yes or a clear no. Now it feels like I have to dance around this idea of being more of a boyfriend but not investing like one. Because shes on the fence.

It's like for the frame to be in my favor. I have to be less invested, especially if she's cautious.

(#2) because I told her what I wanted from quite a strong frame. She said "yes" even tho she wasn't 100% sure about it. And that makes it complicated because for me to bring it up again. I lose frame in asking her a relationship-y question twice about where she stands. And again have to force her to decide, acting slightly more needy by bringing it up again.

(#3) I close the options to other girls (like u said) in favor of a maybe girl.



...


Holden
Agree with this too.

My first relationship was great.
Actually I'm used to girls just falling for me quickly. So having a girl like me this much but be guarded is totally new territory.

I could be wrong. But my read on her is...

A - she likes me
B - she's hesitant cuz her ex cheates
C - she had an idea of how many guys she was supposed to meet. And I came in too early. So she's wondering what else is out there.

A + B + C = mixed feelings.



.........


If anyone has feedback honest to god I'm happy to hear it because I feels like I'm feeling my way through the dark here.





Talked to my bros.

And basically they were saying.

Because her behaviour changed. She's being more girlfriendy as of today (initiating texts). It's safe for me to assume she's going for it. And act a bit more boyfriendy. Calling/texting a bit more.

But because she's on the fence. I should not bring up relationship stuff.


But where they differ is how and when I should bring it up again.

I'm tempted to reach out and say. Alright how do you feel about this? Do you need more time and want to keep this casual cuz that's totally fine with me.

But the advice is ranging from (Do Not Do That - to - it's fine).



So my current stance is. I'll pretend like we're boyfriend girlfriend. I'll just assume that's the frame. Even tho I feel like it's maybe not. And bring it up with her again later. I'm giving her space to see how she feels within it. And after 2 weeks, I'll bring it up again. And if she needs more time. Cool.


We're still going on a trip Saturday to a beach town. So her current agreement to still do that and her more active texting is something worth considering too.



Now, over the next 2 weeks...
How much do I text her?
How much do I call her?
Do I increase the frequency of the dates?

She jokingly said she wants a bf to call her more at night.
Do I do that?


No.
Fucking.
Clue.


Absolutely.
None.


This is all guess work rn.

 

[SpongeBob]

I don't think you should bring anything up in 2 weeks. I believe you spoke your mind, and she said let's try for 3 months. So just do what you've been doing and up everything gradually (if you were seeing each other once a week, you add one more date, if you were chatting every 2 days you chat every day...) and only at the end of the 3months (unless she bring something before) then you can ask where she at.

When she's wobbly and hesitant, you must stay on course, you know you want her, just show her and let her come to her own decision by herself

Now, over the next 2 weeks...
How much do I text her?
How much do I call her?
Do I increase the frequency of the dates?

Relax, you're overthinking it.

 

[Holden]

Even in a full-on relationship you want her initiating most of the time. The frame of a good relationship is "she wants it more than me." (and it needs to be true, no mental tricks)

Just keep doing what you're doing, pretend nothing happened, don't bring up relationship talks unless she does so first.

 

[Manganiello]

Even in a full-on relationship you want her initiating most of the time. The frame of a good relationship is "she wants it more than me." (and it needs to be true, no mental tricks)

I agree. Just this was the same chick who never initiated texts ever.
Although she started yesterday. And hinted she wants me to call her today.


Anyway that's just a detail. The larger point is.

I need to frame this in a way where I want it less than she does. And she wants me more than I want her.

Because you learn that to get girls into you, you have to pull back so they have the opportunity to chase.

 

[Zug]

Even in a full-on relationship you want her initiating most of the time. The frame of a good relationship is "she wants it more than me." (and it needs to be true, no mental tricks)

I agree. Just this was the same chick who never initiated texts ever.
Although she started yesterday. And hinted she wants me to call her today.


Anyway that's just a detail. The larger point is.

I need to frame this in a way where I want it less than she does. And she wants me more than I want her.

Because you learn that to get girls into you, you have to pull back so they have the opportunity to chase.

I agree with what you're saying, and I'm far from an expert on the subject, but I think you can do a lot of this work through dirty talk. It is unbelievably effective at establishing new frames and reinforcing them. I'm not totally sold on the girl needs to be the one initiating the desire for more. I can't see how this is anything other than hoping the girl takes the lead. I would reframe that idea as needing her to see the possibility of getting a deeper relationship from you as being a win for her, and not the other way around.

Getting a D/s frame established during sex forces her perspective to be one of looking up to you. Also, she is the one opting into this frame during sex. You may be prompting her, but it doesn't happen without her consent. You can even drop the frame that she may be able to earn the potential of becoming your primary or favorite. Once she buys into that all the groundwork is set. Trying to do this via less texting and shorter texting and being distant is nowhere near as effective.

 

[Manganiello]

reframe that idea as needing her to see the possibility of getting a deeper relationship from you as being a win for her, and not the other way around.

Ya I agree. Nice thing about Korean (even tho she's Viet) is that the word for boyfriend or older guy you are seeing is literally "older brother". So that sets a cool frame literally baked into the language.

We speak English the whole time but she calls me that time to time. Even calling me the Korean word for "daddy". Which is hot.

But dirty talk is a something I need to get better at overall.

...

Like playing a me vs her kind of frame. And playing games with her. And if you have to play games with her, she probably isn't the one anyways.

Ya again agree.

But I think it's less about the game. But finding the frame to view the situation from.

... As much as I like her.

Her hesitancy is a turn off.
And the more I think about exclusivity.

The more I think man there's so many cute Asians here I could just go out and bang.

And that's an exciting thought.

I think before I was just annoyed with the lower quality chicks because I was being lazy and didn't care to screen for looks as much (not that they are ugly, but just nothing special).

...

It also seems like revolving around her too much. Like wheter you have a relationship or not is in her hands.

Ya exactly. Which is why slight hesitancy and skepticism is actually really good.

And I'm not being skeptical as some high level mental trick to reframe my view of her.

I actually am wondering what else is out there. And if she's going to be like this later too.



Anyway she's super fun. Never had a boring date with her. But for relationships to actually go through. Fun is actually less important than submissiveness, loyalty and investment.

So we'll see how I feel. I might just end up telling her sooner rather than later something like: "Actually let's not force this. Let's still see each other and have fun, but I don't want to force a label on this. It feels weird."

Which tbh isnt that far from the honest truth.

And if you have to play games with her, she probably isn't the one anyways.

And this point is almost pretty damning in itself. So we'll see how it goes. As of this point. My hopes aren't that high.

Which sucks. But after a few nights I think I prefer a reality check over a false hope.