Antonio44 said:
kratjeuh said:
I’m a huge fan of frame control but the key is to keep it fun and lighthearted. When a girl proposes drinks instead of a walk you can say “tryna get me drunk before the walk?” or along those lines instead of a flat “no we do it my way”.
The music stuff was a great way to say “I’ll put your favorite song on but you have to perform it for me” —> you nee frame control but now it’s fun. You can call her out on being to shy to do it,… Remember THIS GIRL CAME TO YOUR HOUSE, THEY DONT DO THAT WITH EVERY GUY.
I read the last few posts of this log and was going to type something along these lines. But you said it
perfectly. If I could super thanks a post I would.
Also still learning as always, but some more thoughts (thinking back to my london days when I had good tinder results there, maybe closing 50% of first dates, usually slightly nerdy/intelligent women, some were very attractive and some average):
A lot of the advice on kyil seems heavily targetted to getting the yes girls as efficiently as possible and handling highly confident women. This is efficient when you have the numbers, however:
I think there are a lot of "maybe" girls who will be nervous and I had good results with them. I don't think not wanting to come to your room immediately is "frame control", moreso just needing more comfort. When I lived in london I would go to the same bar, 2 or 3 drinks, conversation but not sexual, light touching but not overdoing it, light teasing, playful sometimes, but also serious too. Then just say lets go somewhere else. If they'd ask where I'd just ignore the question and continue on the previous/new topic and lead them out the bar. You could also say "lets go explore/I'll show you one of my favourite bars" Then walk to my house (avoid any rapey feeling alleyways on the walk if possible). Often on my doorstep they would be like "oh this is your house"/be a bit reluctant, but I'd just be chilled and say "yeah, lets go for a quick gin and tonic/music/whatever". The key is to convey that it's low pressure and short/without expectations (but without stating this directly). Because I'm not super sexual on the date I think it helps to convey this message.
When in the house, again it's very gradual, talk, talk closer together, then put an arm around maybe (girls love hugs), then maybe 10 minutes later in a natural lull kiss them.
You are also a big guy (I am too) and women will feel vulnerable because of this (not a bad thing but something to be aware of). Like just showing you are a bit soft, protector side. I like to talk about my sister and how I care for her. Not heavily, just like a "I love her, sometimes I worry about her because of x, we're super close nowadays because of y". Trying to convey - you are safe, I am not going to pressure you. If you are a bit autistic (I'm a little bit too) this will show you have some softness/humanity. Most women need to feel safe/comfortable to feel comfortable with doing sexual things.
Other things - do you tell stories that make you seem cool/attractive - like how you are starting a business etc, the progress you're making etc - things that convey your drive. Drive is attractive and you have it in spades. + any other cool stories e.g fun things that happened on your travels.
Also, in the bars - if you're not doing this already, greet the staff/doorman when you enter, ask how they're doing etc - it will make them a lot warmer. Obviously depends on the bar/is difficult if the bar is super busy, but generally I recommend it. The wine bar might be burnt already but maybe not. Another thing you can try is going from 1 bar to another when on a date, this makes it feel like you know each other a lot more.
Yeah, I hear you bro, but tried and tested I want to say close to 100 x.
This is level 1. Let me explain:
Last few dates, asked the exact question you pose here just to help you understand this a bit better.....
One flat out said no. Pushed, she said the same thing, and then asked for more drinks etc (i declined) - she then said she's going home. Bye, lol.
Next one, walked to my house, turned around and said she has to go home. Ghosted.
Next one, did what you say again, and then she realised we were at my house, laughed out loud and called an uber. Removed me from hinge shortly after and ghosted.
Again - really sorry, but I assure you I understand this very well and have done this for 12 years. I appreciate the intention, you are trying to help, but this is around level 1.
Level 1 is enough for people whose SMV is high enough.
This stuff works for many guys. It does NOT work for others.
Level 1 will not cut it for low SMV men.
I am 100% for the underdogs in life and will aggressively tell the truth so these poor bastards, people like me, stop getting shit shoveled in their face.
I am extremely protective of underdogs and will not allow anyone to bullshit them.
My opinion is my own, I have explained my thoughts elsewhere, and do not wish to argue with well meaning, well intentioned commentors who are trying to help, and who are fellow men on this journey. We need each other. United, we can win.
I moved to London in Nov 2021. I have been here a year. In this time:
~100 dates
~1000 cold approaches
I am not counting, these are ballparks.
I used the template. I used the advice in the Tinder guide for how to act on dates. I did this the whole time.
There were strengths: it gets you started.
And there were weaknesses: extremely poor results.
Caveat: IT WORKS FOR GUYS WHO'RE AT MODERATE TO HIGH LEVELS OF SMV
Thereafter, you're left with the question:
WHY DOES THIS NOT WORK?
When you're left in the lurch, when the answers you were given did not work, and despite the effort you put in, you're left lost and confused, as a mature adult you gut up and accept that responsibility is yours and you alone have to take stock and fix your shit, or you will continue to go the way you're going.
This community will continue to grow, my experience here will not be in vain. I had to fail so many times, be ripped to peices and put through the literal grinder, to expose the truth.
IF THE LOW SMV MALE HAS ANY HOPE OF OBTAINING ANYTHING CLOSE TO LOVE
ANYTHING CLOSE TO A SEX LIFE
ANYTHING CLOSE TO
THEY MUST LEARN GAME AS A PRIORITY
You need a solid action plan for dates, you need to really learn strategies, story telling, DHVs, the lot.
You need to learn to tease, vibe, and really spike emotions and build conect.
You need to seed the pull.
We've seen the results of doing it in other ways.
I, for one, am done with the template, done with the non-clinical approach to dates, done with this simple minded bullshit which does not, will not, and simply cannot work for low SMV males.
Let others have their time wasted for years. I did the work. No longer will I continue to go down a failing road.
The current approach has a LOT of drawbacks. If you use the template, which screens super hard, you will get extremely few leads, if any. Those leads are super prone to flake and ghost. You get unmatched a lot, and most do not reply to the opener. This pulls you deeper and deeper down in the algorithms until your accounts are absolutely done and dusted.
Why did it work for others?
SMV. End of. They are under the Dunning-Krueger effect and too ignorant to know any better. The results speak volumes. End of debate.
I WISH this shit worked, I would have gotten the life I want.
Because it failed, I have to now another way.
THE HOPE FOR THE FUTURE FOR THE LOW SMV MALE:
-TEXT GAME (I am testing this 6 hrs a day and the results so far have decimated, and I mean truly decimated the old template, pulling me up in the algorithm and allowing me to get access to pretty girls and get them on dates, instead of the beasts that would appear on my stack doing it the old way)
-DATE GAME
I will either find a way to get the results I seek, or make one.
There HAS to be a way.
If it is humanly possible, I will find it.
The good news is, I have been able to cross out a lot of what does not work and not discard it to the trash.
MAC
"
