YEAR 3: THE IRONWILL PROJECT: MONEY, MUSCLES, MINDSET - FROM NOTHING TO SOMETHING, MY RELENTLESS JOURNEY

[MakingAComeback]

Hi,

From what I can tell, one of your bigger sticking points with getting laid is closing, once you are back at your place.
Is there a weird/interesting, introverted, soft spoken man who closes at high rate, that you can look up to, and replicate his closing practices? What are you doing once you have pulled and the two of you are both at your place? At what point in the interaction do you think that you are 'losing the lay'? Why do you want the lays so bad? Can you streamline the lays, so the process is more pleasant (or is the glory working with the large possibility that you will never taste the reward)? Think how sweet it will be when you get to 10. No one will be able take what you did away from you, and no one will know how much you truly put in.

Samuel

Hi Samuel,

Thank you for this, and these question are very interesting.

I will post a response, I have another date shortly.

Please wish me luck my friend.

MAC

 

[Antonio44]

. If you use the template, which screens super hard, you will get extremely few leads, if any.

I hear what you're saying but don't agree with it all but your opinion is yours.

I found the template (assume you mean "hey sexy, i'm looking for something very specific...") to get very poor results. I didn't try it super hard or optimise my profile for it though. If you are using this line maybe that's part of why they are awkward to come to your house/the implication of sex is very strong.

I will drop what I used in London, I used to keep this quite secret but have found it does not work at all in spanish/peru.

"Hey GIRLS_NAME, do you mind if I'm direct?" They then reply (and the reply rate on this was super good, much better than any other opener I tried), "not at all, I prefer it".. or "mm ok" or something. Then. "I fancy you, let's grab a drink soon and see if we click". They are always pleased that it's not a dick pic/overexplicit but it's still direct and the word "fancy" has really good childhood flirtation vibes. Plus the "if we click" suggests that it's not forced/is relaxed/only if we both have a connection. Then, ask "whereabouts in london do you live", tell them I live in my part of the city, say something about there part, then "are you on whatsapp?" (not "what's your whatsapp"). Try it if you like, I agree with testing texts for effectiveness.


Good luck on the date!

 

[Squilliam]

I used the template. I used the advice in the Tinder guide for how to act on dates. I did this the whole time.

There were strengths: it gets you started.

And there were weaknesses: extremely poor results.

Caveat: IT WORKS FOR GUYS WHO'RE AT MODERATE TO HIGH LEVELS OF SMV

Thereafter, you're left with the question:

WHY DOES THIS NOT WORK?

Agreed. I am starting to think that achieving casual sex is not about your relative attractiveness. It seems like women want to hookup with the same subset of men regardless of their attractiveness. I have marginally better results with direct screening on less attractive girls, but I don't see much of a difference.

Maybe it's just the fact that lower SMV girls are not as likely to be interested in casual sex because all the constant sex offers make them feel undesirable. As you said, guys who are not fairly high in SMV will not have much success with this type of screening. My experience says the same, despite my profile being (albeit marginally) above average. But above average is top 50%, not top 10%.

It makes sense for you to encounter a lot of girls who want relationships given your age, but I still encounter a lot of them at the ripe old age of 22.

When I say they want relationships, I don't mean as just an end goal, but I've had numerous girls assert that they wouldn't have sex outside of a relationship.

Granted, I think this applies more to the texting stage than IRL behavior. I think if the girl goes out with you, you're (probably) not getting turned down exclusively because of your SMV. I think the girls ghosting you and saying no connection, probably isn't because of your looks, assuming you look like your pictures.

"Hey GIRLS_NAME, do you mind if I'm direct?" They then reply (and the reply rate on this was super good, much better than any other opener I tried), "not at all, I prefer it".. or "mm ok" or something. Then. "I fancy you, let's grab a drink soon and see if we click". They are always pleased that it's not a dick pic/overexplicit but it's still direct and the word "fancy" has really good childhood flirtation vibes. Plus the "if we click" suggests that it's not forced/is relaxed/only if we both have a connection. Then, ask "whereabouts in london do you live", tell them I live in my part of the city, say something about there part, then "are you on whatsapp?" (not "what's your whatsapp"). Try it if you like, I agree with testing texts for effectiveness.

I think I'm going to try this. I use something slightly different (clickbait opener plus slightly sexual compliment), and it doesn't seem to be working too well. I think I'm going to try this for a little while and see how it goes.

I don't really like the word "fancy" though. How does, "You're cute", sound instead?

I really like how efficient that is. Bye bye timewasters

 

[Antonio44]

I think I'm going to try this. I use something slightly different (clickbait opener plus slightly sexual compliment), and it doesn't seem to be working too well. I think I'm going to try this for a little while and see how it goes.

I don't really like the word "fancy" though. How does, "You're cute", sound instead?

Interested to hear how it goes! I recommend the word "fancy", it is quite british english but it did work on americans too. I prefer it to something like "you're cute", because "I fancy you" is more like saying she has an effect on you, making it more personal, and also it is a little eccentric romantic even here.

 

[MakingAComeback]

Sure, we can agree to disagree bro.

We are here on a journey and I respect your view.

I will say this:

Templates of any variety are useless if you do not have the following criteria:

-Good SMV
-An archetype that enables hard screening

Tried & tested for a year straight, intensively, daily, over countless hours.

Templates are shit, and may show how the individual is limited as a player. Plenty of these guys are just coasting be coasting off what they ARE, rather than what they can DO.

My template results were god-awful. I would encourage a guy who is a virgin like I was to use a template.

But if it is not getting you want after a full year - think, evaluate, understand, process, and then reorient.

MAC'S TEMPLATE THOUGHTS

Burn it all down, and discard the ashes. The question that is interesting is, why do some men suceed with templates, and others fail?

I know the answer and you know what you will hear from me. Go back to the above.

The possible solution?

TEXT GAME

Via text game, the low SMV male who will not otherwise get attraction, will not otherwise get investment, and will not otherwise get a lady to be interested in them can build some attraction, get her more invested, and can improve likelihood of success.

The low SMV male has to really stock up an armory and take themselves far beyond the norm.

We do not have the luxury to coast with templates. Proven, tried, tested.

MAC

 

[MakingAComeback]

MAC DATING DEVELOPMENT:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mzt3svNpt37yDydlyqnlS3mpoK8T7In57pXJPN8iPEc/edit?usp=sharing

We MUST find a way.

This cannot be my life.

I will not accept it. I will try everything. I will scour the earth and die trying to fix this shit.

MAC

 

[Squilliam]

Interested to hear how it goes! I recommend the word "fancy", it is quite british english but it did work on americans too. I prefer it to something like "you're cute", because "I fancy you" is more like saying she has an effect on you, making it more personal, and also it is a little eccentric romantic even here.

If it's anything like my current messaging template, I'd imagine that it will get a lot of responses after the first message but not many after the second.

 

[Holden]

Interesting stuff being discussed here. I'm not sure I get entirely what you mean by "templates." With OLD, you are dealing with such a high volume of girls you simply cannot afford to think about each and every text and tailor them to their unique profile/convo. I'd even argue that putting in too much effort is a DLV in and of itself (Brad Pitt wouldn't waste his time thinking of an obviously-tailor-made-unique opener to send a random girl on Tinder.)

When we met I told you my "template", a series of around 3-4 messages or so designed to 1) show I have a sense of humor, 2) introduce the idea of us getting together right from the start, 3) my opener "I like your face" which is a compliment but also not really and something she likely never heard before, 4) get her on my IG asap.

The game really only begins when she's on my IG and I send her voice notes and I become a real person in her mind instead of a photo on a screen.

The template is my own though, I invented it, it fits my personality and my irl vibe. Which I think is a major disadvantage of the KYIL stuff: guys use these fuckboy lines when irl they're still nice guys and this creates a disconnect.

So if by "fuck templates" you mean: I'm going to start from the ground up, experiment, and finetune along the way. I'm completely with you. But if it means: I'm going to treat every single girl as a unique individual, you're going to waste a lot of time.

-----

Regardless. I think your problem is not your profile or your texting, but the dates. Does that document you shared imply that you've had 30 dates in the past year? For me personally I estimate I close around 50% of my dates. So 30 dates would translate to 15 lays in a year, which overshoots your goal.

I'd invite you to read some old school PUA books with an open mind. They helped me a lot when I started my journey 10 years ago. Double Your Dating, Book of Pook, Mystery Method of course.

 

[Radical]

80-100 dates this year i believe

I dont know why your focusing on the txting either tbh.

The date supply has not been an issue when you sit back and look at the volume

And if its increasing quality of the girls you are after then improving how you text isnt going to do that. thats about your profile quality as you've seen from improving your main pic

I wouldnt waste any time on text stuff if you could spend it on improving your on date ability like you want here

 

[HankMoodyJr]

Been lurking for a while, but I think you bring up some interesting points.

IMO there's two important pieces to becoming a master of anything. Mimicking (in this case templates) and theory (deep understanding).

As a beginner, you usually need to mimic others who have come before you. That's simply a way to learn the mechanics, and follow something which actually works, rather than bashing your head against the wall with things which don't work. As you are learning the mechanics, you need to continually develop your understanding of theory. Theory in this case would be things like body language, social cues/interactions, understanding the dating market in general. Without deeply understanding why something works, you will never be able to develop your own style, and progress beyond the templates.

As others have mentioned, it's unlikely SMV is your issue. You're getting a huge number of dates, and the girls are often ending up at your place. Seems to me like your interactions during the date are what's hurting you the most. Might be a matter of following the templates too strictly. You seem like a pretty social guy, so I think you should have enough EQ to read the vibe in the date and ad lib a little. My only concern with throwing out the templates completely is that you'll end up trying a whole heap of different things in an unstructured manner, and be unable to interpret what is working and what isn't.

 

[MakingAComeback]

Brothers, thank you for your posts as ever.

I have been a bit distracted, one of my good friends, former coaching client of Andy’s, is staying with me for a week here in London. Shooting the shit, being bros, having a good time.

He’s off to the woods with his Wim Hof retreat friends right now, we’ll maybe watch Chelsea v Arsenal tomorrow when he’s back.

Still hammering, as ever.

This week: Date for Tue rescheduled, date for Weds was fun, date for Thurs I will write about below (this is the first date report I ever wrote, so that tells you something, it’s a roller coaster), date for Fri cancelled as she was feeling unwell but asked to postpone. I am on a roll with good & fun dates, so I pulled my phone out and plugged another chick in for my Friday slot. She was a bit of a chonk, and WAY worse in person, but it was flirting practice. She was off to see friends at 9, so I had 1hr to pull. Rock up, she buys me a drink (lol). Take her to table, hand straight on her ass. Got us out in 40 mins, ASD kicks in, she has to go. LOL.

What I am going to write below is the date report of my best date yet, which was Thursday 03/11/2022, with probably one of the most amazing women I have met in my life. We'll call her L.

MAC’s BEST EVER DATE: WARNING – POST POST

-17 PAGES
-7,005 WORDS

There are three evenings which were truly magical.

The first was when I lost my V, to Danish Girl in Jan.

The second was, after a 4 month dry spell, getting lay #2 with a absolutely stunning Welsh lady. She remains the most beautiful woman I have slept with, by a country mile. I have thought about her an embarrassing amount, I may evem wanna say once every other day. She was just perfection. Absolute.

And the third?

Last night.

No pull, no lay.

No care.

Yes, I tried to pull and pitched 3-4 times, we talked about sex, the lot. She was a comfort girl, her friends are having babies, yep. Read on.

I have scheduled my 2nd ever second date, L has confirmed.

My 2nd ever 2nd date in ~100. And this evening was simply magic. This girl was something else and left me mesmerised.

True femininity is something else. I felt things I have not felt before. And I am grateful for that. Let’s dive in, bros.

It’s storytime.

VIBE, DATE GAME, AND THE ONGOING EVOLUTION OF MAC

We match the week before. It is the first Hinge like I have ever received. After running a boost on Hinge, I saw a chick liked my profile, the pic of me playing guitar. I am not running any date or text game at this stage: she calls me out for being so upfront with my opener, calling her sexy. I plough through.

I’m texting here while in the gym. I am still using the template and my text game is non existent at this stage.

She messages me:

“Are you a bot?”

I sent a voice note.

She banters back and fourth, and seems great. She is a pretty girl, I can see from her pics, but I am not all the way sure we’d click. She works in Sales, she’s in upper management, and I have my preconceptions about her. I don’t think she would like someone like me.

But we vibe.

Push to exchange, she says how about I give you my IG? Add me.

I add her. She accepts right away. We banter. I call her sexy, and she tells me she is trying to match my forward energy and feels intimidated.

But we banter.

Pitch a date. She declines, as it’s her wellness day.

WELLNESS DAY?!

If you know me, I am a wellness nut. I was once almost dead from chronic sickness, weighing 275lbs, a housebound agorophobic who was too sick to leave the house for 2 years and couldn’t work. So if you see me grinding hard every day, know that I do so because I almost left this planet and decided while I am breathing on this earth, I will grind. Period.

She has my full attention, and we banter more. Pitch another date, she’s down. It’s for in a week’s time, as she’s doing Sober October, and has her Wellness Wednesday the day before.

I am excited to meet this one. Genuinely. Smart, pretty, funny. Please like me, I think, you would be so awesome to know.

Sunday was my day of epic emotion and confusion. I was at a loss as to why I haven’t converted in so long.

Sunday 30th was also the beginning of the turnaround. I had a frank dicussion with my advisors and my crew, vented my frustrations and concerns here and on the coaching group, and made it clear: SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE.

Sunday 30th was the day I received a dating and texting masterclass from my advisors, which went on ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT. I didn’t sleep at all, and took pages upon pages of notes.

Like a mad professor, my room was lined with pages of notes, breaking down exactly what the fuck is wrong with me, and why I continue to fail.


FIND A WAY, OR MAKE ONE: DATE GAME

I am a person who does not believe one has to be bound to their lot in life. I am a person who does not believe anyone has the right to impose on you, to dominate you, to kick you and make you do things you do not want to do. Equally, I do not believe anyone can impose limits upon you.

If you do not want something, and do not want to live a certain way, then you can make the CHOICE to find another way.

You always have, as Victor Frankl said, access to the last true human freedom: the freedom to choose.

When all had been burned down to ash, and all hope was gone, when I was at the lowest point of my fucking life, it was me who made the choice after having a breakdown at work one day and vomiting everywhere knowing that I was turning 30 in 4 weeks and was still a dateless virgin, it was me who decided: fuck it.

Either I make myself into somebody I respect, or I die trying.

Period.

I don’t care how much it hurts, I don’t care what I have to do, I don’t care what it costs, I don’t care the pain it will put me through, I don’t care the struggle that will ensue, I don’t care the trauma, the heartache, the frustration, the confusion, the bleakness, the doubt, the overwhelming sense of malaise that would come.

I don’t care.

I will break myself off trying to fix what the fuck is wrong with me, or I will fucking die trying.

If I drop dead trying to fix myself …SO BE IT.

Because the person I saw when I looked in the mirror was a fucking loser.

The loser that stood looking in the mirror, and the spirit inside that yearned for more could not co-exist. It had built up and built up and built up over so many years, and it came to the surface man.

I made the decision. I exercised the choice.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE IT FOR ME.

I WILL NOT GO OUT LIKE THIS.

Lost 75 lbs, beat my Approach Anxiety which was the worst approach anxiety I have ever fucking seen in this space, got lays, got dates, and have kept on, consistently, improving myself.

Now, it’s time for another choice to be enacted.

Do I go down the losing road I am travelling down?

Or do I take a leap of faith and find another way?

I choose to take the leap.

DATE GAME

Ahead of this date, I had the masterclass as I said with my crew on Sunday. The gears in my head turned furiously and I developed an overall revised approach to dating and women.

I overhauled it all and burned it down. I did the old way for A WHOLE YEAR.

Now, no more.

After about 15-20 cuck dates since my last lay, Sept 16th, I had enough.

There’s reschedules, there’s flakes, there’s all sorts. But a lady comes out on Wednesday, she’s good looking, and I try the new approach. I record the audio, and get a full breakdown from my crew and my advisors.

I learned what I did well, and what I did badly. They agree, this was an improvement.

FIRST ATTEMPT AT REVISED DATE GAME: WED

I teased her furiously and she laughs her head off all night, and we both have a blast. She buys me a drink, and doesn’t pull. Where I failed, was I didn’t ask her enough about herself.

The next day, I have a cancellation, and then just type up the notes from the audio feedback and ponder. I think about how I will approch the next date. The bros outlined what I did wrong, as well as what I did right.

DATE WITH L: THE NEW APPROACH

I go to the bar. Yes, THAT WINE BAR.

I have since made friends with the staff, and we joke and have a laugh. They’re good to me now and are on my side, and we have a laugh with the ladies. They ask me, who is your lady friend tonight, where’s she from? They know I am a stone cold G who dates hella women and is on his way.

I get to the bar, and have been studying my method all day. I reviewed my feedback all day. I am recording the audio tonight and I will give it my all.

As I go to the bar, I sit down and banter with the staff. I am waiting for L to arrive, and I see Timmy outside walking back from work. I run out and start yelling TIMMY TURNER!!!

We banter, I tell him I’m on a date tonight, I’m seeing all these ladies, etc, we laugh and joke. Then he’s off.

I head back to the bar, and get a text.

“I’m here, just don’t know where it is”

I run out, and see her. Damn, she was stood within earshot as I was talking to Timmy and heard it all!

“I thought that was you”

I go to greet her. MAN, she is BEAUTIFUL.

Hug her, kiss on the cheek. Her voice is soft and lovely, her eyes are glimmering.

Wow.

Just wow. What a woman.

We go in, and the date commences.

We’re vibing right off the bat, I am teasing hard, and we’re bantering, having fun. I am sexual off the bat and making sexual jokes.

She supports Chelsea, and tells me my team are going to destroy hers on Sunday.

“...I’m going to destroy you on Sunday?” ;-)

She smirks “watch it, you”

We keep vibing, and then we go deep. The conversation flows, she is incredibly easy to talk to, and has real charm, substance, and the exchange is exciting. We’re flirting, it’s back and fourth. I am a bit stunned: it doesn’t normally go like this for me.

It’s Man:Woman. I’m teasing her like a asshole, she’s amused, there’s moments of tension, and I just let them sit, with a smirk on my face, gazing into her eyes. It’s a joy, just creating an experience between us two, a bubble where all else melts away, and
it’s just us.

“I used to smoke, and guess what? Now I vape. Are you OK with vaping? I may ask for us to go outside”

“Oh man, red flag” I said

She’s a bit flustered: “Really? Oh, look, it’s OK, you can walk away now and it still would have been a great night, I totally understand”

I just smirk, put my hand in the small of her back

“I like your vibe, I’ll let you off. Let’s go”

We stand up, I put her jacket on, she grabs my wine for me, and we head outside to chill and she vapes.

“Thank you, I’m just getting really warm in there. Are you not hot?” she says

“Depends in what sense you mean…..”

It’s just back and fourth, we’re laughing, but we’re also getting serious and going deep. Really getting to know each other. She’s actually awesome.

The wine flows. I buy one round. Then another.

We sit outside, and we really connect. Some funny things happen, a couple walk past with their dogs, we start bantering with them and asking them what they feed their dogs, it was just amusing.

“Ravi, I am having a really good time”

A FIRST FOR MAC: THIS GIRL….LIKES ME?!

This has never, ever happened on a date before.

We keep talking.

“….This is going really well” she says.

At this point, I am actually smitten. I have not felt like this before. We dive deep, I tell her about me, including some of my ugly past when I screwed myself up majorly in my first phase of self improvement when I was in my early 20s and ended up a housebound agoraphobic.

“I wouldn’t normally say this, usually I’ll go on the date, and at the end, I’ll text the other person telling them good luck, or I’ll tell them at the end of the date. I’ll always stay, but this is going well….”

I am really into this lady, and am just enchanted by her. I am gazing deep into her eyes. She is a beauty.

L GOES SALES MODE: BEGINS TO QUIZ

So, she’s in sales, I joke about her being the wolf of wallstreet. But she can really hold tension, there are moments when I push it, pitch a pull, which gets declined several times, and she will just look into my eyes in silence for seconds upon seconds. These moments are deliberate and to create tension between us.

I seed the pull throughout, try many different things, and after about an hour, I pitch the pull in a couple different ways. She declines and lets me know it makes her nervous. I am playing into the tension, leaning into it, opening up spaces where there is a gap and I am just looking into her eyes.

Between man and woman, there must be FEELING.

You MUST have her feel. Man and Woman can both win, and enjoy life together, if you learn how to be a true man, lead, gain dominance, and sink into woman and her feminine heart. It’s a picture you paint together, and when you begin to see it, it’s beautiful.

In dating, it’s better to take risks and possibly win, than play it safe and certainly lose.

L’s tone then changes. She turns on Girl Game mode, and starts vetting me. She makes me very uncomfortable here.

“Ravi, why are you single?”

I joke and deflect 3 x, bit she persists.

I am unable to tell her the truth. What am I to say? Well girl, I am a guy from a horrible background, I got treated like a leper by women for most of my life, I have the ugliest scars you can imagine, and if I didn’t come to a self improvement community bawling my eyes out falling at the feet of better men who didn’t know me to say please help me, I am really lost and in pain but I will do whatever you tell me, then I’d be done.

What could I say? Girl, I put everything else in my life on hold, everything else, and went all in to fixing myself as a human being, I moved to London with a guy from a self improvement forum who gave friendship with me a chance. Without TimmyTurner, there’d be no MAC. I couldn’t afford to live here, not even close, and for that I am eternally indebted Timmy took a chance and said bro, we can find a place and we will hustle together.

Could I tell her, I had to get the best people in self improvement to help me piece myself back together again and through an unbelievable process of self improvement, cold approach, online dating, constant hustle daily for 1.5 years, I made myself into the man who is sat here with you?

No.

Maybe a better man than me could. I am a humble student of the game.

“Well, I was seeing a girl, we broke up, now I’m here”.

I am so hesitant, so uncomfortable, I have lied to her and I feel deeply uneasy. I cannot make eye contact with her as I say this, my mood drops tremendously. She notices.

“Ravi, I want to give you a hug. I want you to know, I think you’re brave for putting yourself out there, for getting back out there, and being so confident”

We hug. She feels un-believable. She is like silk. My heart is shattered. I am speechless.

I am thinking, damn dude, that has not happened for me before.

I find it hard to breathe, my hips lock up and go into spasm. All of a sudden, I turn cold, so cold, and start fucking shivering.

I am having a stress response, a trauma response. FUCK.

“This is a really good date. The last few dates I’ve gone on, you know, there just wasn’t anything. The last guy was a lawyer who thought he had big bollocks, he took me to a private members club, spent all this money, and asked me to go home with him. When I told him I wouldn't go home with him on the first date, he told me no one has ever said that to him before. He then tried to kiss me on the first date, which was awful. He had no chat and just flashed his money, I really dressed up for the date and was present. I suggested a second date somewhere else, and he asked me to come to his house so he could cook me dinner. He was just trying to get me to his place, so I wished him good luck”

She talked about her thoughts around dating, how kissing and having sex early gives off a bad impression. She’s a comfort girl, she will need a lot of comfort, and a lot of attraction will need to be built over time. I understand.

You know what? I don’t even care. I just want to be near her.

Nonetheless, I am being a teasing asshole and just making fun, but also diving deep at the same time, asking her searching questions, just creating an experience for both of us.

I am having a killer time, and go to buy another round. We’re 2 glasses of wine deep and just keep flowing.

“What does the next step in your journey look like for you, Ravi?”

“I want to be happy”

That’s all I can say.

We keep vibing, I am making sexual jokes, she is handing me her vape and asking me to try different flavours. She’s so cute. I blow smoke in her face unthinkingly the first time, and then the second time, I remember this and purposely turn my head.

She notices everything. “I saw that” she says with a wink.

“I dropped the cigarette habit and never really got back into it, I had one a while ago and thought, this tastes like arse…”

“Have you tasted arse?”

“No, I can’t say I have. Have you?”

“Yep”

She laughs. “What was it like?”

“It was alright, not bad at all”

“Well, here’s to arse” and she raises her glass.

We talk more, and I try to pull AGAIN, with a different elaborate tale. She declines, and I tease her about it.

But she doesn’t know I’m joking this time.

She is stunned, and sits in silence, and her whole demeanour changes.

“You’re dangerous……” she has a grave look on her face.

“Yep, you know how dangerous I am? Very dangerous. When I was a kid, I’d speed on my scooter, people would tell me to slow down, and I’d refuse. In school, I’d tell my friends they smell, and they didn’t. I gave no fucks”

Agree & amplify.

She then asks me what I meant by my “rebuttal”. I tell her I didn’t give any rebuttal, and she can stop using her sales skills now, I was not being serious.

Her demeanour changes back, she snaps out of it. I think I gave her a stress response, bless her. We’re laughing again and I tell her she’s socially inept.

“Your tone was so serious”

“I am a sarcastic bastard, the worst, but you’re just a nerd”

It’s fucking great, man. She then just leads the rest of the date, and I sit real close and just listen. I have ulterior motives, however. She is so beautiful I am just mesmerised. I am looking into her pretty eyes, her face, her hair, her whole look in the black dress she wore just kills me.

At one point, I am talking about the gym, and tell her it’s leg day tomorrow and I’m gonna pay for this date. Tell her to feel my gains, which she does. My legs are pretty solid, she’s impressed. She then tells me to feel her leg gains. She doesn’t lift, bless her, but she tells me to run my hands along her legs, feel them.

It’s a quite sexual moment, and I express this: “Oh, they feel absolutely gorgeous….”. She really does.

Sex comes up, and we both agree we like sex, and that sex is great.

We’re having a good time, there’s no pull happening here, but FUCK IT. I could honestly drink wine with this gal all night, and I tell her that.

“You have to let me contribute something towards this, I know you’ve got a tab going”

“Sure, you can get the next round”

I bought us two rounds, she buys the next 2.

We head back and drink. THIS WAS A 3HR DATE. When Radical was here a while ago, he told me he will have dates like this when he just gets drunk with girls. They can go on for hours. I see what he meant.

We go back out.

L PITCHES A 2ND & 3RD DATE: WHAT?!

Outside, we vibe further.

I tell her I want to see her again. She pulls up her calender.

“The next I can see you is Wednesday. I have a dentist appointment, but can see you after. Does that work?”

Of course it does…..I agree. She books me in.

We keep talking, and we’re making plans, she’s dropping hint after hint about the things she likes and wants to do.

“Have you been to Jazz Cafe in Central? I’ve always wanted to go check it out….”

“I like a Vineyard, and think that’d be great for a date”

I pitch a few things too. I like the idea of spending a full day with her, going for a walk through Battersea Park, going to Battersea Power station (just renovated)
and slugging a few drinks, getting food, and then heading to my place to watch a movie she is very interested in but hasn’t seen (we talked about this). That’s a rough outline in my own head, I didn’t mention this, but I did tell her I want to see her for a day. She told me the next full day she can do is 19th.

“I’ve never been on a date where I’ve agreed a 2nd and 3rd date, Ravi…..”

More chat, and she tells me she is going to Thailand in December.

“Sounds amazing, I love that for you. I could, maybe, talk to you on the phone”

“You’ll talk to me on the phone”

She then tells me more about her trip, and how she is thinking of going to Bali at the end of her trip.

“You should come to Bali”

I am fucking speechless.

“That sounds cool, Bali seems great”

All of this is new ground for me.

We head in, both a lil tipsy, and take a seat elsewhere in the bar, chat with the staff (I have befriended them), request different songs, me and L are singing, it’s fucking awesome. She goes to the ladies room, I just chat with the bar staff. She returns, and has this adorable smile on her face when she’s looking at me. She goes to sit in a booth, pats the space next to her to tell me to go sit with her, and I come over. We just talk music.

I put my hand on her back, and just pull her a bit closer. I find she has some guarding, I find where she is comfortable and stay there. I then take my hand off. I’m a little tipsy and just having a laugh.

I ask her to be mindful of the time, she asks me if I’m in a rush, I tell her no but I will keep her with me all night if she’s not careful. We talk more and it’s just such a joy, I wanna make a cuck type statement here: this felt unbelievable, like, as good as sex. I was hella excited.

She calls an Uber, and we just chill and talk. She checks her phone and it’s arrived. I lead her out, walk her over, and find the Uber for her. We hug. I kiss her on the cheek.

No kissing on first dates: this is a retard and rookie move (see Caleb Jones rules) and I used to do this. Radical also talked about it recently: you give too much away.

The seduction of a beautiful woman is a joyful process, of push/pull, back and fouth, highs, lows, pushing the limits, taking risks, making her feel good, and taking it away, introducing doubt, and then giving her some certainty. Hot, cold. Women LOVE this, and it makes dating a pleasure. A woman is different from a man. When you deal with woman for long enough, you learn about her.

THIS IS WHY I DID THIS MAN

I DID THE PHOENIX PROJECT TO FUCKING LEARN THIS SHIT

I want my future to be full of passion, real connection and deep intimacy. I was willing to sacrifice years of my life to build a better future for myself, and came here and did the sheer hard graft. Every day. For fucking over a year.

This was my red shirt year. I DID MY WORK. I PUT IN MY TIME. Period.

She’s off. Text her to say, please let me know when you’re home safe. She tells me. Tease her again and tell her to go to bed, she needs to program (she joked about me being robotic over text).


AFTERMATH

I lay in my bed, 4 glasses of wine deep, talking to my bros in my chat, just so happy. They were telling me to end the date, so I started raising the time question with L and moved towards ending it. It was ended I’d say about 10 mins after one of my advisors told me to cut it.

I’m a 4 min walk away from the wine bar. My head hits the pillow, so blissed out, full of love.

I came here to be a better man. I moved into this flat with Timmy to be a better man. I worked on myself so hard, so hard, so so so fucking hard, that I turned a guy that fucked up

Into this motherfucker here.

I know the road ahead. It’s steep. I have a lot of work to do. My close rate is fucking, what, 12% on dates? Pitiful.

But I am fucking TRYING. I try EVERY DAMN DAY.

That is better than most. Say what you want. I am still a G in my own mind and overcame odds that 99.9999% of the human beings walking the earth could never overcome. You can call me an autistic retard, I am yes, you can call me a weirdo and shit, reading this shit, you may think I am a loser.

So be it.

The thing about it is, though.

…….I’m gonna make it.

Because I will keep fucking showing up and improving myself.

NEXT MORNING: ANOTHER GHOST AND NO CONNECTION?

I wake up, and my negative head says the following:

“Well, last night was great. I know she’ll change her mind now and tell me she had fun, but feels no connection”

Andy’s words are ringing in my ear. “Try just dropping the storytelling for 30 days, and lets just see what happens”. I agree with him totally, and mindset and thinking patterns is the no #1 me and Andy are working on right now.

I am so bad with it and need a lot of help. Andy is patient and we are gonna get there.

I actually picture a message coming from her in my minds eye, that reads “Thank you for a great night, Ravi, I had fun, but I just am not feeling the chemistry, good luck”.

I have received this text, no shit, over 30 times since I started this journey. I used to get a few a week, and we’d just laugh at them.

But then I check my phone.

She messages me telling me she liked my vibe too, and that she’s not hungover today, so my choice of wine was good.

I breathe a sigh of relief.

FUCK.

THANK YOU.

I just look to the sky and just exhale audibly.

PLEASE let me get a second date, PLEASE………..

I respond with some flirty teases. I then ask her about our 2nd date. Simple text: “Wednesday?”

She confirms, and tells me where to meet her.

I flop back on my bed and just close my eyes for a moment.

As Jocko would say: “GOOD”

NEXT STEPS: CRACKING DATE GAME

The previous approach to dates, didn’t work. How long do we sit there and cope?

Because something works for someone, does not mean it will work for someone else. There are levels to this shit.

With time, with experience, with action, you learn.

I must crack date game now. I must. I must. I must.

This is what we work on now bros.

MAC’S SICK HEAD - AUTOMATIC DISMISSAL: REALLY? HOW COULD SHE LIKE ME?

When we were on the date, and she was telling me she was having a good time, all I could think of was, wow, is she seriously saying this?

It just didn’t feel real. It felt like I was in a dream.

It’s really sad, is that I cannot see how a girl could possibly like me. I have no concept for this, none.

I cannot process it. I doubt this so seriously, so skeptical of the notion, that despite us having agreed a second date, despite her texting me this morning, despite her being very sweet and saying when she saw the sunrise this morning, she thought of me, all I can really see is: well, she’ll lose interest in a day or two, I won’t get my hopes us.

There is not even a parallel universe where I can imagine a girl liking me. Even as I type this, I can’t even picture what it would feel like. It is truly alien for me.

I have significant image issues and see myself as unattractive, as someone a woman would not want to be near or touch or hold.

For most of my life, I was probably what they would call an ugly and undesirable person. My outcomes reflected that.

Turning my fate around, getting this ship back on course, bros I do not have the words to even describe it.

To get where I am today, I cannot even tell you.

THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH FUCKING HOURS IN THE DAY TO EVEN BEGIN TO TELL YOU HOW MUCH WORK I PUT INTO MYSELF

Sometimes I just pause for a moment and then break down and cry.

I used to not want to be alive anymore. I used to not want to be here. I was at the bottom of the darkest dungeon of all time, I had no hope, the demons that haunted me of low self esteem, low self worth, seeing myself as an untouchable, undesirable monster, a beast, god’s sick experiment who was put here just to suffer, I used to just dream of the day that I too could be a human too.

That I too could be a man, and no longer a monster, that I could be seen, heard, touched, felt.

(continued below)

 

[MakingAComeback]

I just wanted to be a man like everybody else.

I wanted nothing else. I didn’t want to be a player, to become an epic huslter, to take risks, to dream big, to really develop the burning desire to win, and to become a legend in the making. None of this was on my mind when I started my journey.

All I wanted was to feel like I am a person too, and not an alien from outer space, displaced, dislocated, and removed from the part of life that I was always so deficient in.

I had known a lot of hard times, a lot of ugly things. I saw the true darkness that exists in the world. People I loved and cared about got fucked over, for no reason. People who were vulnerable and didn’t deserve it, but brutally victimised. There was a lot of violence. There was a lot of pain. I have seen hell. Believe me. I wept many times and for most of my childhood prayed every night just to ask things to be OK.

All I ever knew was for me to escape this bullshit, I am going to have to put in a level of hard work that most human beings have no concept for. I had 5 paper routes at 11 years old, 2 jobs at 16, put myself through University, the hustle never stopped from there.

Even though I was probably destined to be nothing, I wanted to know what it would feel like to be something.

Even if I just had that feeling for one day.

It was not just one night that I went to bed in my 20s, deeply unhappy, confused, lost, and just with no idea how I could get the life I wanted.

That didn’t occur once or twice. That for me was years. Years.

When L hugged me, and told me that I am brave. I couldn’t breathe.

My hips locked up, I began to tremble. I felt things I have not felt before.

I felt very vulnerable, slightly scared even. I must confess, I did not like the feeling. It was as if the knife that was embedded in me, that was thrust in so deep, lodged inside my soul, penetrating my psyche, was being dislodged.

I heard the clangle of steel on cold autumnal London pavement as it fell out from within me, and was strewn across the square.

I was the one who put it in there.

What was fear, gave way to warmth, gave way to a childlike joy.

I was a little boy again, laughing on the playground, making jokes, being light, free, and blissfully unaware.

What happened on Thurday was magical.

She doesn’t have to keep texting. She could flake before the 2nd date, and decide she has far better options than me. She probably does.

I do not have money like the other guys who courted her. I don’t have a high status profession. Shit, I was a project manager and quit to start a business. I am working for free right now learning the ropes.

But even so, I have something……….

Why do I know this?

How could a gorgeous woman like this this want to know me further if I was just nothing?

There is hope that I may be able to fix myself, and in any case, I still got a taste of what I am looking for tonight.

That is enough for me.

In my mind, what comes to the surface is: well, IF she actually goes through on a 2nd date with me, she’ll likely get bored and that’ll be that. Don’t think too much, Ravi, you know what happens for you. You know you are not much, and women can do a lot better than you.

And it’s true, they can.

L told me on her Hinge, there were over 600 messages from guys that morning. SHE was the one who liked my profile.

“I can’t keep up with hundreds of guys talking to me, it’s overwhelming. I thought, I like him, so I am just going to talk to him”

I became a bit emotional when she said this but I can control that shit. I changed the topic.

I can’t tell you I have the answers, I can’t tell you that my woman situation is going to be OK – I am unsure that it will. I can’t tell you what will come for me. I have plenty of doubts, and this game is fickle, uncertain, and the highs, the lows, man, they’re real. You feel esctasy, you feel agony. You can be in hell, and you can be taken to heaven.

If you choose to play this game, the game of success, as the great Terero said: you can’t half a gangster.

The work ethic, the consistency, the learning, the study, the thinking, analysis, the work we do on ourselves, this shit will take every ounce of energy that is in our mind, body and spirit. It takes it all.

Level 1, basic bullshit, works for SOME PEOPLE.

Level 1, horseshit like just look good and talk to girls, works for people who’se SMV enables it. That means they never have to go deep, and never really have to crack the code.

Dunning-Krueger is real. You do not know what you don’t know.

For the low SMV male, which is no slight and no dig, it is simply the brute fact of reality and of the human animal, you will inevitably have to find another way.

That way does exist: IT’S CALLED GAME


THE CANDLE IN THE DARK IN THE DEMON HAUNTED WORLD

What I can tell you is this: the life of a low level male, is not even worth living at all.

The low SMV male is the underdog, the hardcase, the guy who no chick would want. Your pool is small. The chances you get? They're fucking rare. The options you have? Few, and far between. You are not made of the right stuff. You are not born to win. Quite the opposite.

My thoughts: The underdog NEEDS TO FIND A KILLER APP

The underdog cannot rely on glib bullshit, piecemeal advise like just run the numbers.

FILTER ALL THE NUMBERS IN YOU CAN, IF YOUR PRODUCT SUCKS, NO ONE WILL BUY

The only way the low SMV can survive this shit is if they find a killer app. He must find a way that he can become formidable. He must find a way that he can go from being the victim, from being the guy who is totally intimidated in a confrontation, who is at the mercy of a far stronger opponent, who is bullied and scared.

To being a person so ferocious that an encounter with him is over in 5 seconds. His fists are stone, dynamite, napalm. You start it, and he will finish it. You enter his crosshairs, he will take you off the fucking planet.

This transformation is possible: IT'S GAME.

Game is the hard sparring people do not want to do. The higher SMV males can get away with it. They can walk the streets knowing they will survive. The low SMV male will has to face the truth.

He can't put on a front and memorise katas, learn pressure points, triggers, learn to diffuse conflict and walk away and be the bigger man.

He will have to do what he does not want to do. He will have to get his gloves on, mouthgaurd in, and he will have to get in the ring and engage in hard sparring.

He will have to enter the ring. The rubber must meet the road.


REFLECTIONS ON PROGRESS

I remember my old profiles, when I was fat, the way girls would talk to me. They would bullshit me, they would test me, talk shit, and often they were very fat and unattractive girls. I didn’t care, because I was fat too.

I remember when I was approaching the point where I could begin to call myself an up and comer, when I started getting more dates and started getting experience, the odd lay. I started to believe in myself more, but I knew I had a LONG way to go.

From the start, I was committed to seeing this shit ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

In time, I have gotten better, and I have learned. I have truly, truly learned. I became more confident, socially fluid, more attractive, and more charismatic. It is slow, it is hard, and it takes time. But I have overcome SO many problems.

I could, for a long time, only get unattractive and fat/undesirable women to match with me. I could only date these people.

I then made changes, got a new main, and things got better. Radical’s advise helped a lot here and he is the reason I solved the “quality problem”. I am very grateful, and all of the work I did with Radical was extremely valuable: he is one of the best out there and I hope to learn much more as the years go.

The lead slow slowed down A LOT, though, and I had to come here and get more help.

When it slowed down, I asked for help and improved my prompts and profile. Thank you to Manly Cockfellow who was a massive, massive help here and whose advise and support began to get me WAY more leads.

I am also going to thank my crew for being there for me all the time and teaching my game, these guys are very smart, very dedicated, and in my opinion the best people in the space who are serious as I am about becoming elite. They know who they are.

I need to keep nailing my mindset and I will talk to Andy about this more and more. I need help with it, it will take me time, but I WILL crack it.

WHY THIS DATE WAS AWESOME: GAME MATTERS

Attraction is not only important, it’s necessary.

Without attraction, in the SMP, you’ll lose.

Would you enter the octogon and fight Khabib being out of shape, having not had a training camp?

Khabib is going to get on you and work you like an animal. You will have never faced pressure like this before in your life. People who are the best of the best describe how it was fighting him. They had seen nothing even like it, and did not even have a concept for it. He is gonna drag you further and further into deep waters. You will be unable to breathe. And you will drown. His hand will be raised. Undefeated. Undisputed.

You need a BJJ black belt to compete with him, you need 400 ammeter boxing matches, you need proven competency that will allow you to get in that ring AND FUCKING FIGHT.

EVEN A DOG FROM THE SEWER HAS A PUNCHERS CHANCE

IN DATING, THAT BJJ BLACK BELT EXISTS

ITS CALLED GAME

GETTING INTO DATING WITHOUT LEARNING GAME IS LIKE A CHAP WHO HAS BEEN DOING LAPS DOWN THE LOCAL POOL THINKING HE IS GOING TO TO THE OLYMPICS AND COMPETE WITH MICHAEL PHELPS

HIS CHANCES? FUCKING 0

HE IS GONNA GET HIS NAIVE THROAT SLIT

……...JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPENED TO ME

Many men get attraction not because of their game, but despite it, because of the way they look.

Certain males, purely due to inborn characteristics, will find dating success simply following basic, bullshit advice like Look Good & Talk To Girls.

How far did that get me?

Tried, tested, and put into practice HARDCORE for a year. Tested rigorously. The results speak volumes.

That will be no way to win for the low SMV male.

Trust me, trust me, trust me: you pin your hopes on this, YOU WILL LOSE.

Just like I did.

“Game is a value delivery mechanism”
-The Dom

What woman responds to is emotion, what woman responds to is FEELING. If you can make her FEEL, you can build something, be it connection, intimacy, sex, friendship. You have a freakin chance.

Guys who are not good looking and physically attractive will not have leeway, will not be cut slack, and will be destined to a life of misery UNTIL they find the missing piece.

If you cannot make her feel, it’s over.

Game allows the male to go in there and put on a show, create sparks, passion, excitement, intrigue, and STAND OUT.

The way you look matter so much, and it is so profoundly powerful when it comes to exciting woman and making her interested. However, if you do not have a look that will win because of the cards you’re dealt, it’s time to admit this and stop the bullshit we perpetuate: the answer is not in more numbers, you can date TEN THOUSAND WOMEN, and you’ll still suck.

I literally did this.

The answer is in fundamentally re-engineering your personality and equipping yourself with the most powerful weapon in the world when it comes to dating: GAME.

That is my current thinking after the previous model failed.

I am here for the underdogs in this world, and will always speak for these people.

THE ONLY WAY US UNDERDOGS WILL SURVIVE THIS, IS FOR US TO STUDY AND INTERNALISE GAME

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE

We need to start posting text threads

We need to record all dates and approaches and set aside a day a week to analyse

We need to meet up in person and help each other

I have done all of this, and it changed my life.

If you won’t lead in arranging the in person meetups, then I will. I host guys in my flat all the time. But only the most hardcore, the most dedicated, and the guys who have potential to be truly great. Weak hearted men will hate me, will hate my crew, and will despise an extreme grinder like me. Because I will chew up their soul and spit it out. I wish to offend the lazy and uncommitted so they stay away from me and do not waste my time.

If you do not try your ass off, post consistently, and take action consistently: I will think you're a cunt, we will be like oil and water, it won't work.

But all the real ones, we must collaborate, we must team up, we must work together and allow our skills and abilities to pool so we can, together, win bigger and enjoy bigger and brighter possibilities than we can even imagine.

You are the sum of the 5 people you spend the most time with. Make sure they’re the best people you can find on planet each.

Let everyone else rot. Perish.

Real recognise real. Like attracts like.

IRON SHARPENS IRON

RUN WITH THE LAME, YOU WILL DEVELOP A LIMP

KYIL CANNOT BE A PLACE WHERE HARD WORKING MEN GET SHIT SHOVELLED IN THEIR FACE FOR SO LONG

WE WILL NOT KEEP LOSING

This chapter where I am not converting on dates WILL end.

I will find a way.

And if there is no way out there.

...............Then I will fucking make one.

-MAC DADDY

 

[Manly Cockfellow]

MakingAComeback thank you for your beautiful posts.

Your journey is probably the most inspiring I've ever read and I really, really, really want you to succeed.

And I believe you will... Hell, I believe you are!

 

[Antonio44]

@MakingAComeback thank you for your beautiful posts.

Your journey is probably the most inspiring I've ever read and I really, really, really want you to succeed.

And I believe you will... Hell, I believe you are!

Exactly this. After reading the longest post ever on here on the date with L, I have a small crush on MakingAComeback .

8 women in a year is more than most guys sleep with in their lifetime..

 

[Holden]

Really happy for you to have this special experience.

 

[Bman]

I need to keep nailing my mindset

As I read this post, I could not help but cheer you on. It brings me joy knowing you experienced the beauty of the feminine here.

But then I start to read you continuing to say "you have little to offer"... and I want to cyber slap you.

L told me on her Hinge, there were over 600 messages from guys that morning. SHE was the one who liked my profile.

“I can’t keep up with hundreds of guys talking to me, it’s overwhelming. I thought, I like him, so I am just going to talk to him”

600 men. 600 MEN. That is a small army. Wars have been won with less men than that.

And you single handily defeated them all. Without even lifting a finger. She messaged you.

She saw what you had to offer and took it.

But just like sales, the offer is only half the battle. Next you have to deliver the value promise you made in that offer...

“Ravi, I am having a really good time”

“….This is going really well” she says.

“This is a really good date.

“I’ve never been on a date where I’ve agreed a 2nd and 3rd date, Ravi…..”

“You should come to Bali”

She messages me telling me she liked my vibe too,

She confirms, and tells me where to meet her.

It sounds like you delivered that value. Look man, I'm still a fucking noob. Its not my place to say what you did well here. I'm still learning myself.

What I can say is that you do, in fact, have A LOT to offer!

I could spend the rest of the day ripping quotes from your hundreds of pages in this log that demonstrate that. I could go to every regular on this forum and stack a bunch more quotes that demonstrate that.

I know that darkness of thinking you are not of value. When I was younger I had insecurity that I did not matter. I would sometimes wonder what would happen if I died, right there, that day. Or just walked in front of a car. The truth was, the world would go on.

But, moreover, no one was going to value me more than I could value myself. In fact, no one was going to see that value until I started valuing myself.

You're a good man, Ravi.

You literally have the highest "thanks" count on this forum. Everyone has told you that you have value.

You have slept with 8 women. They told you that you have value.

This wonderful feminine being has told you that you have value.

For the love of almighty, please, see this for yourself.

Really man, congratulations on this date. The transformation you have undertaken can not be understated. I wishing you all the continued success.

 

[HomelessBob]

Yea man, just throwing my kudos on the pile. You're a positive dude that works hard, that's a pleasure to be around.

 

[Thrice]

I almost cried reading your post Ravi, you went through so much pain, emotional pain, the wrost type of pain, the one that shapes how you view yourself and the world, the one that scars you deep and makes the past painful, even if the past exists only on our mind.

I know only one person who can fight through that pain, conquer it and win and it's you. Never met someone with your level of resilience in my entire life

 

[natedawg]

Brother, you already know there's a million things I want to say but I will just say...

LET'S. FUCKING. GO.

The whole time I read this, all I could think was QUALITY. How good of a win it is to connect with women you both feel excited about AND who are into you.

(How cool is that shit?)

Keep climbing, brother. The view at the top of the mountain will be worthwhile.

 

[AskTheDom]

I just wanted to be a man like everybody else.

And you are a Man like everybody else, simply put, you just had a different path.
You know, it doesn't matter at which station in life is a man, his lay count, his past successes, what matters only is his attitude and his actions.

What is the point of saying "oh I had a 6 pack 10 years ago" and stuffing your mouth with donuts? Where is the value?

You are a Man, and you showed to any single person in this forum, and to whom had the pleasure to meet you, that you are serious.
Do not fear the future my friend, because Lady Luck favours the brave.