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YEAR 3: THE IRONWILL PROJECT: MONEY, MUSCLES, MINDSET - FROM NOTHING TO SOMETHING, MY RELENTLESS JOURNEY

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Do you have fun during your dates ? I don't mean only enjoy nice conversation but really have fun ? Laughing with your date, teasing etc... The goal is obviously not to be a clown but there should be some lightness to the date, you're both supposed to have fun. Dating is supposed to be fun in the end.

You tend to talk about all this stuff in a very "hardcore" mode, and I get where you come from. But don't forget to have fun in the process. I know you said you enjoy the grind and the feeling of overcoming your obstacles, but I'm talking about having fun.
 
Honestly, depends on the girl.

Date 19 was fun because the chick had an amazing personality.

This chick yesterday was dull as fuck and had not much to say!

They're often NOT FUN!

MAC
 
Days check in will follow but I went to cold approach.

I am feeling depressed today tbh. So I did 4 approaches, went 0/4, Some very angry responses, I'll type it up later.

Yep, 20 / 20 of my dates ghosted or sent THE EXACT SAME TEXT

Date 20 zipped this thru. I appreciate she at least texted. She unmatched me very quickly and then sent this just now.

No problem and I respect it. I also didn't like her. Practice for the big show.

Must learn. I can't go on like this.

Going off faith alone.

MAC
 
MakingAComeback said:
Yep, 20 / 20 of my dates ghosted or sent THE EXACT SAME TEXT
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How many of these dates went to at least a second date? I assume danish girl is included in that 20.

I'm also confused. You said you didn't like her. Did she send that text completely unsolicited, or was that in response to you asking her out on another date? I assume its the latter because IME, girls don't usually write stuff like that unprompted. If so, I have another hypothesis as to why your retention is so low, but I'll wait for you to confirm or deny this first.
 
No 2nd dates apart from DG who sent the same text but after several dates and sex.

I sent her a text saying thanks for a lovely evening and hope you got home safe, as I always do. They usually send me this text either the next day or sometimes after a few days.

I have had some feedback from pancake mouse which is prompting a note writing session I am going to really hammer his insights into my brain, but yourself also Squilliam, you're greatly appreciated and please share your thoughts on this subject.

I would also like to thank Hiesenberg for his thoughts and help here and I am making many notes from his recommendations also.

I am feeling a bit better now. I was legit bummed today but I have perked up a little. Going to rest. I will do my full check in and day writeup shortly.

I am understanding some very big mistakes I am making. I have a new focus for my next steps.

MAC
 
MakingAComeback said:
Also I am definitely getting into my own value system, how much I care about growth, stuff like that, which honestly seems to be turning these women off. They begin to get skeptical as fuck at this stage and there is an uncomfortable body language tick when people begin to itch their nose. This happens a lot on dates. I think they think I am trying to impress them. I actually am not, I care about this topic.
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They begin to get skeptical when you mention personal development? That sounds a bit weird, are you sure about this? I like to talk about personal development on dates as well, because it's something I'm into, but I don't go SUPER deep, at least not on the first date.

As an example, when I'm on the date I usually order a lemonade without sugar while the chick orders beer/wine/cocktail, for example. If I get a comment about it, I just own it like "yea, I'm a health freak;)" - don't take it too seriously. They might ask if I never drink and I say that it's rare and then a story about how when I was younger I used to be completely shit in social situations and would rely on alcohol like a crutch, so I decided to teach myself to talk with people without alcohol.

I guess that's a way of talking about personal development, but not like "every day I have my morning routine, I ice bath, I meditate, I fucking hustle and eat 7 raw eggs before going on my 6am run." The conversation should be mostly light-hearted imo. You're there to have fun.

I'm definitely not an expert on conversations, but hopefully you can use my input somehow.

Holden said:
2) Talk about travel, adventure ("what's the coolest thing you've done lately"), her ambitions and dreams. Don't get too deep. With the world being locked down you always have an excuse to talk about travel. "I wanted to go to country X but then the world locked down so I couldn't go. If you could go anywhere you want right now, where would you go?"

3) If she's smart I like to talk about books/literature and art in general. Great way to go a bit deeper as the date progresses. Lots of times I'll ask girls about their favorite book and they don't have an answer and I bust their balls for it ("you don't have a top 3 ready??") and then the day after the date they'll send me a top 3 list. It tells me all the right things: that she wants to impress me, that she was thinking about me/the date long after it's over, and that she wants to see me again.
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Yea, this is good. Usually travel is a pretty big topic for me, when the girl says something it often reminds me of something that happened during a trip. For busting their balls, I do that a lot too. Shows you don't take her too seriously as well, maybe something to incorporate MakingAComeback

MakingAComeback said:
Sadly I have encountered 2 so far who openly expressed how much they hate men.
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If that happened I'd probably simply be like "OK, that's interesting. Why are you on a date with a man in that case?" - in a non-judgmental way. Would most likely not want to date a chick like that.

MakingAComeback said:
Honestly, depends on the girl.

Date 19 was fun because the chick had an amazing personality.

This chick yesterday was dull as fuck and had not much to say!

They're often NOT FUN!
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Think that was a great question from SpongeBob. What can you do to have fun on your dates, just for you?
 
MakingAComeback said:
When you have dates with misandrists it is very horrible bro.

Sadly I have encountered 2 so far who openly expressed how much they hate men.

Part of the process isn't it, most days I can shrug it off. Some days its like, dude, this is fucked up. If they don't like men at all they should leave us alone! lol.
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Yeah, it's pretty messed up. Luckily, I haven't met any girls who were blatant misandrists.

MakingAComeback said:
but yourself also Squilliam, you're greatly appreciated and please share your thoughts on this subject.
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My hypothesis I realize is not a factor for your retention being low, rather it's a factor for a high number of rejections in general. Sometimes I wonder if you don't screen hard enough, although I understand that it's hard to do that pre-date. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it also seems like you ask girls out on a second date when you didn't really like them all that much to begin with, because you seem to switch to "I didn't like her anyways" when you get rejected.

As for why your retention is low, I think the others have summed it up well. 19/20 dates not leading to a second date indicates that you are likely making some sort of consistent mistake. Perhaps needy behavior and other things regarding your vibe make her feel "off", even if she can't consciously pin point what it is that she doesn't like.

Pancake will hopefully give you some good feedback, he really knows what he is talking about.
 
YEEEEEEEEEEE

Yesterday was a day of reflection, mentally I felt AWFUL, and I knew it was a day to just let go and also really, really listen to the advice and feedback of the private coaching group and the community.

Check in from last night then:

THE PHOENIX PROJECT WEEK 16
08/03/2022

ACTIONS
(1) Dating: CA 2hrs 10 Approaches / Old Process (DONE, went 0/4 on the approaches I was bummed as hell)
(2) Body: Fasting / Core / Stretch (DONE)
(3) Content: 2 TiKToks / 2 YouTube (FAIL)

Got up, saw the sunrise, accountability call. Feeling horrible but guess what? THAT IS THE DAY TO PUSH. Truly, there can be no excuses. NONE.

Fasted all day man. 40 hr fast! Shred fat, healed hormones, improved insulin sensitivity. This body WILL get to elite levels. It'll be game over.

Worked remotely, went to cold approach.

CA
1-walked off, she smiled and laughed
2-walked off, she also smiled and laughed and looked very similar to the previous girl
3-she said shes in a rush but she was mad and gritted her teeth lol. Indian girls can be legit intense they are happy to smack you! She was pretty af man
4-this bitch stopped in her tracks, took her headphones off, and yelled "WOT", her voice sounded incredibly scummy. She was mad as hell. I laughed and moved on. Obviously people like this are not the goal.

And then motivation was just dead. I was feeling a bit lost as I didn't know why I am fucking up so bad on dates.

Kept fasting, did it legit.

Core work, stretching, then I took some down time to reflect and let go. This is part of it man.

Obviously I am going to suck. I've never had any experiences with girs and my brain just hasn't done anything but work my whole life. That is all I really did. The connection aspect will be developed like I developed other abilities in myself.

So I continue feeling a bit bummed, but then I read through the posts from the bros, and also Radical, Andy, Rags2Bitches and Pancakemouse step in and give me feedback.

I am floored and also kinda wanna cry.

THERE IS A WAY FORWARD

I am making mistakes, which I will write up and post up shortly.

This sticking point IS FIXABLE, and I am reassured by several of my most trusted source that there are many things about me that are actually quite good.

I then go on a mad note writing session, filling several sheets with notes, mind maps, the fucking job lot.

I am reading notes over and over and over.

I will now write up a key post for The Phoenix Project: KEY LESSONS LEARNED 2022-2023. This will focus on my current sticking point which is building connection. I have taken tremendous insight from the group and the community and THIS WILL BE A FOCUS. For the next 20 dates, THIS is where I will focus.

I have date 21 today, 22 tomorrow, and I could get more but I am gonna help my friend Friday night (we may head out after) and Saturday all day. Sunday I will schedule a coffee date with another lead.

Today back to fucking jackhammering.

MAC
 
Woah man, 20 dates! One thing is for sure - you are getting no shortage of dates. This mirrors my experience a lot. First you get nothing - not even numbers. Then you eventually crack getting numbers. Then you can't get dates. But then you eventually crack that shit too.

Guess what will be cracked next? ;)

I think this whole interesting lifestyle BS is just that- BS. If you look very good are are a hunky beast that will likely do 85%+ of the work for you. As for the date and topics to talk about - it is time to log data. Recording is a brilliant idea. What you want to do is analyse the successful ones (when you have success) and try and develop your dating strategy around it. Also, take note of how many dates it takes on average to seal the deal.

People can give you all the advice in the universe but it really does come down to your personal experience and what works for YOU. Some gurus preach a 1 glove fits all approach, including people I really admire like CJ with his 2 date model. So far doesn't work nearly as well for me as striking on date 1. He also says to do like 30% of the talking or less (I think, I need to double-check). Doing that hasn't worked out too well for me.

You are in the growth phase now mate. You are facing unprecedented pain from your constant failures. This is the exact period where you CANNOT give up. You need to bore this out and keep gathering data until you find what works. And you will. Every week that you are hustling and dating equals a 1-2% overall improvement at the subconscious level and after several months WILL develop into real results.

You are in the big leagues now. Keep that sword and shield held high!
 
Thebastard said:
This sticking point IS FIXABLE, and I am reassured by several of my most trusted source that there are many things about me that are actually quite good.
Click to expand...

You are a cool dude. And you're becoming cooler everyday with each new experience and struggle. Never forget that. You WILL get there. Self doubt is normal. Just like any emotion, it comes and goes
 
Thebastard said:
I think this whole interesting lifestyle BS is just that- BS. If you look very good are are a hunky beast that will likely do 85%+ of the work for you. As for the date and topics to talk about - it is time to log data. Recording is a brilliant idea. What you want to do is analyse the successful ones (when you have success) and try and develop your dating strategy around it. Also, take note of how many dates it takes on average to seal the deal.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think it's a lack of an interesting lifestyle, or his looks that is turning off girls. He's 6'5", and clearly has a life. I'd say it's more likely to be a vibe/communication issue.

In my experience, this type of issue fixed itself with more experience and time. I am pretty curious to know what is holding him back here, I'm sure it'll become more obvious with time.
 
I listened to the recording and honestly it was interesting. More interesting than the conversations I have on dates. I think though good to have a game-plan. Do you want to get laid? Are you planning on trying to get laid on the next date? Good to have those ideas.

My game-plan is if it's just a first date 30 minutes, no point going over. Getting laid be more physical and try to push things to going back to your place or hers. My last date the conversation was nothing to ride home about. It's a 2 way street. She has to be accepting of being led or its just an uphill battle.

I think she just wanted someone to talk to. Oh and the "feelings" is all BS. But anyway onto the next
 
THE PHOENIX PROJECT WEEK 16

JACK HAMMERING!!!!!!!

Got up, visualisations, sunrise, accountability call was postponed today due to Andys coaching call last night meaning us in Europe go to bed at 2am LOL. I didn't do the call, I do it once a month, or twice if I need a lot of help, but my accountability partner did.

Breakfast. Dermapen.

Work, remotely.

GYM! Hammer like fuck. The day after fasting gym is hard and you can get lightheaded. Still worked like a demon. Killed it.

My fucking NUTS were throbbing with testosterone after gym walking down the road and everybody getting the fuck outta my way LOL

My mentor Dr Marcus taught me about Wolfs Law in the body, and how when you lift HARD, and really get aggressive, the body thinks you need to fight an animal and it signals to the system to upregulate testosterone. Lifting is mission critical for motivation and health. Truly. And you have to have hard lifting, like shit that sucks.

nipple-flip soon I will hit the 1rm of our challenge bro. Hope ur good and working hard. Come back and post when you are ready. No judgement. We're here to work when you are ready to get back.

Work lingers on, I go to cold approach. I have an hour and a half.

CA
1 - she is smiley and says she's really good as she is walking away lol. Pretty thing.
2 - ignored
3 - shes in a rush

0/3 cuck volume day

But I am still doing them bros.

Remember the fucking 3 weeks I couldn't do one approach? I will get there. Believe me, I will get there. We always find a way.

Come back. Order takeout to save me time. Local Armenian place is delicious and healthy.

Eat. Shower. Light therapy. ON TO DATE 21!

For this date, I apply the feedback from my trusted advisors, who listened to my audio. I thank EVERYONE WHO LISTENED TO THE AUDIO AND HELPED ME:
Radical
Rags2Bitches
pancakemouse
Paw
Jacobpalmer123

These guys went above and beyond to help me and I am beyond grateful. They know I am fighting for my life here to turn my life around. I am so grateful to be able to learn from you men. I will succeed and we will all become legendary together.

OK, so DATE 21

She's 29, works in human rights. She's a lovely human. Really. Quite pretty, interesting, smart. Decent body. A great gal.

But the task is to FORGE CONNECTION.

We know my sticking point. My dates don't create any spark or connection,

I was so depressed yesterday I had no fucking clue what to do.

My close advisors and the community stepped in and gave me fucking outstanding insight.

I will write it all up, these guys wrote me essays its insane. When you go ALL IN and just close off all other options apart from success, it is insane how other men help you. The power of masculinity. When you are truly killing yourself to become successful in this world, trust me, other men who are ahead of you give you a hand up. I have seen it time and time again. It's amazing to watch.

The focus for my date tonight is to create TENSION and CONNECTION.

Dating strategy has been overhauled and we will keep tweaking it

-Playful teasing & jovial disagreement
-Touching
-Seductive eye contact (just moments)
-Talk WAY less: 20/80 split of me talking vs her

I understood the advice and applied it tonight.

Meet her, she texts saying shes late. I tell her I will let her off this once ;-)

She arrives 20 mins late, but she let me know well in advance, so I time it. The pub is down the road from me. Get in, choose a spot where I can be near her, and wait for her.

She arrives. Hug, kiss, tell her she looks good. Sit down.

Body posture is very open, legs apart, arms on the bench, lol. Just IDGAF energy.

I'm speaking slowly, focusing on creating tension. She hears me say once sentence, and she throws her hair back, brushes it. I remember from the PUA says this was considered a 'strong' IOI and the video that pancakemouse sent me featured a girl doing this to the instructor.

We talk. I listen. The strategy was as follows, as outlined by Andy on my post in the private coaching group:
-Ask her about herself: "Tell me about you"
-What are your goals?
-Weirdest dating experience?
-After 1hr ask her to come to yours

I gave it a go.

I disagreed with her, and I was shocked. Her eyes lit up. WTF.

At that point, I realised, there is a lot to this shit I never even began to consider.

It makes little sense, but the times I disagreed with her, she then began to justify herself.

At times I was really taking the piss. On her weirdest dating experience, she went on 5 dates with a dude who was married. I pointed to my ring and said yeah I'm married, my wife is a beautiful latina I met in Miami, she replied "yeah well I've got a husband" and I replied "that's great" and she asked me a bunch of questions after that about travel, my fave places, etc.

I then asked her about her weirdest dating experience and she said "Sure but before that part can I buy you a drink"

So look, I at least did better than before. I tell her I think shes sexy and also interesting. She gives me a smouldering look.

Anyway, I ask her to come to my place. She says she has to go to a dinner at 830, but she has 14 more minutes before then. She definitely wants to talk. We keep talking. I then go for the kiss. She sits there closed lipped and its like what. She then says "Ok I've gotta go" and we walk out.

We keep talking as we leave. She is smiley and nice. I tell her it was nice meeting her,

Radical mentioned going for the kiss on the first date can hurt you. I think he's right man.

Tomorrow night, I am not going for the kiss. The girl has a conference the next day and I am also not going to go for the pull. She legit has a conference she won't be DTF.

I just want one girl to go on a 2nd date with me that's all.

PROGRESS BOYOS

OK bros, thank YOU ALL FOR THE FEEDBACK
Radical Rags2Bitches Thebastard Paw pancakemouse Jacobpalmer123 and of course Andy

WED
09/03/2022

ACTIONS
(1) Dating: CA 2hrs 10 Approaches / Old Process (DONE, went 0/3 on the approaches cuck volume)
(2) Body: Gym / Core / Stretch (DONE apart from stretching)
(3) Content: 2 TiKToks / 2 YouTube (FAIL, did 1 TikTok)

Hammered hard man. 1030 now.

Did my best.

I WILL get dating down like I got other things down.

Date 21 tomorrow. Few more scheduled.

Pancakemouse said something interesting. He said guys can also improve if they really analyse themselves and fine tune. There is a week this month where I will be in the office all week. That means no cold approaches that week! But I will push for dates and I have one scheduled back home in advance lol. In that week, I will compile a reading list on how I can become adept at dates and really go through the notes from Rags2Bitches pancakemouse and others such as Paw who provided excellent notes and tremendous insight that was aligned with the titans Rags2Bitches and Pancakemouse. Paw is a bro from the coaching group BTW and will be a legend in this life trust me.

I was also given some reading from my bro in the group, on non-neediness. He linked me to a Mark Manson article.

That aforementioned week will be meticulous study, reading articles, watching videos of advanced guys on dates, getting feedback and getting this shit taken to the next level.

KEEP HAMMERING,
MAC
 
MakingAComeback said:
It makes little sense, but the times I disagreed with her, she then began to justify herself.
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This is a great sign! Whenever a girl justifies themselves to you, take that as a sign of interest (and vice versa, if a girl does not justify herself, it usually means she's not interested).

MakingAComeback said:
I then go for the kiss. She sits there closed lipped and its like what. She then says "Ok I've gotta go" and we walk out.

...

Radical mentioned going for the kiss on the first date can hurt you. I think he's right man.

Tomorrow night, I am not going for the kiss. The girl has a conference the next day and I am also not going to go for the pull. She legit has a conference she won't be DTF.

I just want one girl to go on a 2nd date with me that's all.
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A common misconception is that kissing on the first date is a binary. Guys go back and forth about it: do you kiss? do you not?

The reality is that like most things in this space, it's all context-dependent.

I see kissing as a tool. In each situation, I ask myself: what would kissing her right now do for me to lead this interaction closer to sex? To me, kissing isn't special. It's simply another form of physical escalation, that might come after touching her hair/face and before kissing her neck or caressing her luscious bosom.

Generally, the purpose of strong physical escalation is to lead towards sex that night. If you believe that the best way to get her turned on is to kiss her, and you've done all the physical escalation that comes beforehand such that the only thing left is kissing, then kiss her.

But if you aren't absolutely sure that:
1. You've done enough escalation to lead towards kissing (some [not always required] signs: is her gaze melting? is she touching her hair/licking her lips and looking at you?)
2. You feel confident that she'll be receptive to further physical escalation beyond kissing (e.g. you have logistics to go somewhere more private and she has time to do so)

Then don't kiss.

With this situation, it sounded like the kiss was a bit out of nowhere. If you only had an hour, I probably would have just gone for the pull without kissing, then tried to amp up and go for the kiss once she was back at the gaff.

P.S. I just went back and looked at my spreadsheet to jog my memory: of 14 venue dates I've done in the past year where I hooked up with the girl, I kissed 0 of them before the pull. This is because I trust myself to do the necessary escalation to make the pull happen, AND to be able to continue escalating once I get to a private location. Other guys may do it differently, but this has worked for me.
 
Thanks pancake for the insight and support on this one. This was very helpful and a great teaching point. I will apply this as well as the other things we're working on.

OK so today is a funny day because it's the day of the month I have to get my ALF device put back in. Went, got it back in.

On the ride back, date 22 (tonight) flakes. She tells me she's working until 7 and can't make the date tonight, which was conveniently at 7.

Which is fine, but like a dickhead, I went back to the old ways of booking a 'nice' location which required a deposit. So I'll lose my deposit (£25).

I actually messaged her saying "I know the feeling, it happens ;-) But because it's a last minute cancellation I'll lose my deposit (£25). This is annoying."

She responds: "I didn't know you paid anything"

Savage. Lol.

Blocked, deleted, onto the next.

I will never pay a deposit for a date with a girl again. I will get them to meet me at the wine bar outside my flat, or at the pub down the road.

And guess what? I am not losing the deposit. I will go down, check in to my table, confirm I arrived, and then wait 10 mins before telling them I've been stood up. They'll be understanding and I'll have the deposit refunded.

Learning point:

All my nice guy tendencies must die.

Why do I get fucking nowhere with women?

I am a nice dude.

And that is why I will continue to get what I currently getting, which is nothing.

Until I kill this aspect of my and become something else.

I am going to have dinner, rest up, stretch, go to the bar. come back, do some work, and get content uploaded. Will also hammer on the apps.

I will cold approach and hammer the apps tomorrow, Sat, and Sun.

Saturday, I will work on my plan for pictures. I will shoot some with Timmy and my other friends in London on Sunday. I think either a photo with a girl, a social picture, or something of this sort will strengthen my profiles.

You may also notice the work I'm doing in the gym shine through a little.

Keep hammering,
MAC
 
MakingAComeback said:
Which is fine, but like a dickhead, I went back to the old ways of booking a 'nice' location which required a deposit. So I'll lose my deposit (£25).
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Dude please just find a nice free bar. They are all over London theres 0 reason to be doing this. You are just adding an unnecessary level of stress creating a monetary loss when a chick flakes (which always has a percentage chance of happening)
 
Radical said:
Dude please just find a nice free bar. They are all over London theres 0 reason to be doing this. You are just adding an unnecessary level of stress creating a monetary loss when a chick flakes (which always has a percentage chance of happening)
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This. I was about to say, you should just always assume a girl will flake on you.
 
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