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colgate - FINALLY!!! i get my first daygame lay!!! after 3 years!!!

Holden said:
Honestly I'd just ignore what she says and go for the lay every time we meet up.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I think I'll do option #3 then, have us meet up as usual and if she shows up go for the lay. Otherwise if I still don't get the lay, just switch to option #4 and cease contact.

And if she doesn't meet up again, then it'll be the consequences of the blunder and I'll have to eat it.

I'm probably "getting away" with so much regarding this chick because she hasn't discovered how many options she has yet.
 
colgate said:
I'm probably "getting away" with so much regarding this chick because she hasn't discovered how many options she has yet.
Click to expand...
Really tall girls tend to be insecure too.

Honestly you'll probably lose this chick but that's okay. A guy who fucks 5 girls a week wouldn't mind.
 
Hey Colgate, just wanted to point out something very, very obvious to me, but something that you seem to be oblivious to:
you are an elite man.

I'll say that again so you know I meant it: you are an elite man.

You really need to internalize this, because once you do you'll be able to relax, and be patient, and be your naturally impressive self around sexy, 6'3" young women who REALLY LIKE YOU!!!

And that patient part is key. As soon as you let this girl know you're happy to wait for as long as she needs to feel comfortable -while continuing to improve yourself and your life and while continuing to talk to other girls- the sooner she'll feel comfortable giving it up to you!

Now I'm not saying spend a year taking her on nice dates and spending all your money on her while being content to never have sex, treat your time like it's the valuable thing that it is, but also, don't be so in your god-damn head about proving your manhood or becoming the harem king or whatever that you can't enjoy the company of a sexy young women who likes to jerk you off and give you great head! That is a wonderful thing!

Plus, as much as you overanalyze things, she is probably even more nervous and in her head than you are, so be kind to her (you have far more power over her and over any woman who likes you than you realize).

Like I said to hard-to-focus, if you and he realized how close you both actually are to the sex lives you've dreamed of, you would be sprinting with joy because it's right around the corner! Or maybe you might actually slow down a bit and enjoy the damn journey before it's all over!

Either way you're almost there!
 
Thanks for the mindset advice Manly Cockfellow

At first I wasn't sure how to effectively utilize your comment as I typically don't respond to only "support" and "cheerleading".

But I often get "stuck" when I don't know what to do and overanalyze, like many guys.

Combining the mindset Holden said with yours of thinking "what would an elite man do" would probably properly guide me through many unknown situations. Part of the trouble is that I don't even know what an "elite man" would do in many situations, but I'm sure it's a good enough guiding principle to get me through many hoops. And worst case scenario I can just be like "what would Andrew Tate do" or "what would Troy do"

I'm an elite man.
 
I wouldn't worry about some other elite man, because the place where you really want to get is asking yourself "what do I want?" and then honestly answering "I want X".

I saw one of those dumb YouTube videos where a woman gives men dating advice, and they are almost all garbage, but this one was actually spot on, because she said one of the sexiest things a guy can say is "I want...". This is especially true compared to questioning statements: can we have sex? vs I want to fuck you; can you suck my cock? vs I want you to get on your knees like a good girl and suck my cock.

I actually think you look so good at this point it's gonna be a bit strange if you go around asking women for things instead of telling them what you want, because you look elite and like you are used to clearly communicating, and getting, what you want.

And the real reason communicating and thinking this way is so attractive is it implicitly communicates "i'm good enough", and a belief that other people will often give me what I want when I tell them what that is. And that's all I mean when I say you're elite. Not that you're (or anybody is) some super alpha Chad, just that you're healthy enough/good enough to share, and often get, what you want.

All of that being said, it is of course fine if she or anyone else chooses not to give you what you want - you are only giving them the chance to please you, and if they won't then someone else very happily will.
 
Manly Cockfellow said:
I want you to get on your knees like a good girl and suck my cock.
Click to expand...
haha, I'm already very commanding in the bedroom, like borderline autist. I'm like "take it off" "bend over" "suck my dick".

ever since my first lay i don't think I've asked a girl a single time anything, i just steamroll through.

Manly Cockfellow said:
I wouldn't worry about some other elite man
Click to expand...
this isn't a matter of "worrying about some other elite man", it's just a last ditch mindset when i get personally stuck in the moment. it's helped me before anyway
 
colgate said:
haha, I'm already very commanding in the bedroom, like borderline autist. I'm like "take it off" "bend over" "suck my dick".

ever since my first lay i don't think I've asked a girl a single time anything, i just steamroll through
Click to expand...

Good man.

colgate said:
this isn't a matter of "worrying about some other elite man", it's just a last ditch mindset when i get personally stuck in the moment. it's helped me before anyway
Click to expand...

Yeah, by all means use what works for you.


I guess all I was trying, and probably failing, to say was that a man who has experienced and achieved as much as you, and who looks as good as you has A LOT of power over women, and I hope when you truly believe that you will be a little more patient and empathetic, especially with young women like your tall girl who have FAR less experience than you
(I'm not just talking sexual experience, though you are obviously ahead of her on that front too).

What you've done to transform yourself is nothing short of incredible, and it means you've seen firsthand how powerful you are when you set your mind to something. I don't know that many women, especially young ones, ever experience this, which to me probably makes the world a much scarier place, because unlike you they have never been forced to overcome a truly massive obstacle and seen just how tough and resourceful and determined and powerful they actually are.

I guess another way to say it is like this:
as I've gained experience with women, I realized they aren't the scary ones, I AM.

There's not a woman on the planet I couldn't force to do whatever I wanted if I chose to, and now that I know that I am much more understanding about them needing to feel safe and comfortable with me before I take their clothes off.

I also try to always make sure they know they have the option to stop things no matter what stage of sex we're at, and that we never need to have sex if they aren't up for it. This usually has the wonderful effect of making them feel even more safe and comfortable with me, which not only almost always leads to sex, but usually leads to WAY BETTER SEX!
 
Manly Cockfellow said:
I also try to always make sure they know they have the option to stop things no matter what stage of sex we're at, and that we never need to have sex if they aren't up for it. This usually has the wonderful effect of making them feel even more safe and comfortable with me, which not only almost always leads to sex, but usually leads to WAY BETTER SEX!
Click to expand...

This is actually my biggest weak point. I'm absolutely terrible at "comfort" type calibrations, even though the few times I can fake it (e.g. we're not gonna have sex), the girl ends up being more passionately into me.

Applies out of the bedroom too, say on approaches when I can read the girl is very unsure/scared of me.

My "correction" for this ends up being "convincing" them into telling me no or something.
https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=30125#p30125
https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=30964#p30964

I don't know if there's a certain overarching mindset I'm missing or what. All I can think of is something like being "genuinely okay with not getting an outcome" but on the other hand that seems to get me either complacent or defeatist.
 
colgate said:
"genuinely okay with not getting an outcome"
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This is almost exactly the right mindset, all you're missing is "after I've honestly expressed my attraction, and invited this woman who I find cute/sexy/beautiful to make a connection with me"

Once you've done that it's up to her to accept your invitation or not, but the more you communicate "I like you, but ONLY if you like me too" the more she will realize you are not some creep trying to control her, but a healthy man, honestly expressing your attraction, who will be very happy to have sex with her AND very happy if she chooses not to, because you're not some villain trying to force her to do anything she doesn't want to do
(villains with mind control are some of the scariest villains to women: a great example being Killgrave from the Jessica Jones Marvel series)


Below is a quote from my post about a recent date, which I think explains why many women can seem so mean and cold and rude when you first try to connect with them:

Manly Cockfellow said:
She had just told me about a night where she and a girlfriend were walking to their car after dinner, when a guy who had been walking on the other side of the street with his head down looked up, saw them and basically started sprinting their way from across the block... needless to say they were scared and asked a few nearby guys to stand with them till he left (he asked them for change or something). Even though this young woman is almost 6 feet tall, and does motocross, she was still frightened of this average guy... Why?

The best way I've heard of for men to understand what this must be like is to imagine yourself in a gay bar full of nothing but NBA and NFL players, all of which could easily hold you down and do whatever they wanted to you and your body if they chose to. Even though most of them will probably be pretty nice, all it takes is one creep who doesn't care about you and just wants to use your body for his pleasure... and he's so much bigger and stronger than you there's nothing you could do to stop him if he got really mad or desperate.

A little later in the date she said something I thought was a brilliant summary of what it's like to be a woman interacting with a new man:
"Imagine if every once in a while when you opened a cereal box it exploded in your face. Even though you know most cereal boxes are fine, you'd still be very wary of them, because you could be dealing with one of the exploding ones".
Combine this with the gay bar full of potentially volatile NBA/NFL players, and you can understand why men make women nervous at first (before they get to know you!).
Click to expand...

Another way I've heard this said is that overly sensitive men are scary to women. Now this of course does not mean women don't like men who are emotional or who are in touch with their feelings (in dating/sex they actually love to hear you moan and grunt and tell her how good she makes you feel and how much she means to you and that you feel close to her).
What it means is women are afraid of men who feel so much anger and desperation and pain that they completely lose their empathy, because even when women try to politely decline these men's invitations they are often met with rage and anger and sometimes even mass shooter vibes (I dated a woman once who was literally approached in a gym by a guy who went on to do a mass shooting).
Just imagine how you would feel if a gay NBA/NFL player hit on you and then became enraged when you said no thank you, or in his desperation continued to grope you and try to kiss you and take your clothes off and have sex with you even when you were clearly uncomfortable and not enjoying it...
You'd be pretty god damn wary of gay professional athletes in the future, despite knowing that most of them are nice.


I can tell a big part of you really LOVES WOMEN, Colgate, and I'm just trying to help you figure out how to express that love, but also your empathy for what she's probably feeling (oh god, I hope this isn't one of those exploding cereal boxes!), as well as your healthy desire to only connect with people who also want to connect with you.

And believe me, from your story and your pictures and the way you write and encourage other guys on this forum I can tell you with certainty there will be many, many people who will want to connect with you (and women who will want to sleep with you).
Any belief that you will have to trick them/seduce them into connecting with you, because you fear no one would ever willing choose to do so, is just plain wrong, and ironically is only going to make it far, far harder to connect with anyone, because they will feel like you just want to control them to satisfy your desire, without caring about what they want.


Maybe a simple phrase you could turn to in the heat of the moment could be something like:

"We can both relax, because I only want you if you also want me"
 
https://youtu.be/3Eg2b79w4Q0

Was listening to the above video and Dr Miller made the brilliant and extremely empathetic point that most guys don't approach women they don't know, and of the ones that do, most of them are sociopaths

So yet another reason for women to be wary, but also another way you can stand out by showing her you understand just how random and scary it can be to be approached by a strange man!

This is also why I've always liked the opening line of "hey, I know this is random, but..." or "hey I know this is maybe a little strange, but... " and then tell her you think she's cute, compliment something she's wearing, etc.
Starting that way immediately let's her know you have empathy for how's she's likely to be feeling at first, and shows her you're not a sociopath
 
This video is insanely good

And Colgate, you got this. You are money. I read your log from the beginning and you've made massive improvement. And I have to agree the overthinking will go away once you realize you are good enough as is.

Yes, don't stop improving. But you are up there homie. Have faith.
 
I'm going to bring back the video logs.

I was revisiting my old log posts from a year ago and can observe the veritable change in my vibe since then, thanks to the videos.

Of course, reading and writing text is more efficient so like that time, I'll be also writing accompanying text.

But I think it's more real to see me actually talk. Plus I need to improve my voice.

Anyway, had a date on Wednesday afternoon and then Thursday evening.

Date with unattractive black girl
https://streamable.com/g61pgp

I met up with a black chick who turned out to look worse and fatter than her pics on Tinder. But since I'm just trying to get lays and experience, and maybe she'll be feminine and submissive and it'll override her looks, I rolled with the date.

We entered the taco place and she ordered a water while I ordered a prickly pear agua fresca, because I like fruity drinks.

Standard conversation, and then I went for my "let's listen to my music at my place" pull after around 20 minutes.

oh we're going pLAcEs now??!!!?!?!!
yes we're going to listen to my music at my place
...oh ok

We entered my room and I shut the door. She immediately asked if she could get comfortable on my bed, which I thought was a good sign.

Then I brought over my laptop and showed her 2 of my songs in the project files.

Then I showed her a song I didn't write, and then put on my standard escalation album.

Got the makeout pretty easily, but then I was kneeling and craned over her in an uncomfortable position.

So I lie down and told her to lie down as well. but,,,

no i'm good here
it's more comfortable here, come lie down
no i'm comfortable here

uhhhh.....ok

So we listened to some more music. Not knowing what else to do, I went for the makeout again, got it, and then did the same thing with the lying down. And she rejected it again.

I tried a third time to makeout, and this time

have you had a girlfriend before?
yeah i had one in high school and one in college. what about you. not a girlfriend ofc
haha yeah, i've not had a girlfriend. but i haven't had a boyfriend yet
you have like all this pent up energy...

I ignored it and chilled.

you keep trying to sneak attack me
oh okay, LeT's KiSs
wow, you're learning!

That super turned me off but we made out again for a bit, this time I tried to get into her more to see if she would start cracking if I tried to make do with being uncomfortable and craned over her.

Softly grabbed her neck to fake choke her, various parts of her body.

Then I went for her breasts over her shirt and she batted my hand away.

I went for her waist and then disengaged.

At some point,

i'm good with the kissing, but it seems like you want more
yeah obviously i do. but we can just end it if you're good with the kissing
yeah actually

So I walked her out to the bottom of the elevator, asked if she was good, and then let her walk off to her car.


Date with cute Indian chick
https://streamable.com/in8ucz

This is the first time I've gone on a date with an Indian girl, strange enough. She had a completely American accent like I do.

I showed up 3-5 minutes after she did. We had a standard chat for 20 mins and then go for the pull. She declines with "i'm not tryna go to your place"

Now in the past, I would have been pushy about the pull and tried multple "tactics" to get her to agree. Check out this date where I pushed ~15x in an attempt to get the girl back

I started dialing it down though. The last time I was in a similar situation, I had even only gone for the pull 3 times, spread out over probably an hour. I even thought the date ended on a "good note".

However, when I tried to pitch a second date, I was met with this:


So my thought going forward was, oh if she doesn't go for the pull, I should end the date because that will increase the chance I get a second date, I can end the date on a good note, and then she doesn't think I' being overly desperate.

ok let's end it for today then
ok

I paid for the drinks, engaged in 5 more minutes of chat while I waited for the bartender to take the check.

Then I got up and started to leave and told the girl let's go, to come with. My intention was to just walk her back to her car and e.g. talk about meeting up again and etc.

But to my surprise:
i'll just stay here actually

I thought that was bizarre. She wants to just stay here? uh...ok i guess

Now literally any normal person will read the above report and be like "seems like you didn't like the girl?" "why did you just end the date?" "you came off as showing you only wanted sex"

That wasn't even what I thought though, before I had messaged my group chats. I was thinking, well that went pretty well. She didn't want to pull on the first date, and I didn't push for it multiple times so I should be able to get a second date.

However, regardless of my intentions, and "to my shock", immediately ending the date after a pull rejection comes off as desperate as "pushing 20x for the pull". I explained above what I actually thought, but the universe doesn't care about "what you think".

Takeaways
It's continually frustrating making the kinds of mistakes that are like "if you were just a fucking normal person, this wouldn't even be how you would fuck up". It really hits me right in the insecurities I have regarding "not feeling like I belong in this world" and generally just feeling like a total fucking alien. As in, "socially obvious" things continue to be complete news to me.

And then I feel like every normie asshole shows up and gets a rush out of telling me off about how much of an alien I am and I "deserved" to get burned. People who are typically timid show up all of a sudden and start acting hyper-aggressive at me being socially retarded.

^that's a bit of an emotional ramble. But ultimately it is true. My "intentions" don't matter insofar as they're not getting me the result. And it's repeatedly the case that my actions are not congruent with my actions, mainly out of lack of awareness.

I could write a 2000 word post about how my zero empathy and lack of social awareness has continually hurt me in dating, but I'll save it for another time. For now, it's basically going to be lots of grinding, going through dates, getting feedback on the dates, to just learn all the different optimal things to do to get what I want.

Like the escorts 2 months ago, this whole "no empathy or care for other people and no social awareness" was something I was made aware of months ago and knew it was dampening my progress, but I didn't "get to it" until now. Not to mention I've seen many guys have the "opposite" problem where they are too empathetic to girls and end up becoming doormats as a result. So I had an existing resistance towards it.

But now that I've gotten burned by fucking up with a cute girl I actually liked, and even thought the date went "well", it hit me in a way like never before.

My next log post will be posting the aforementioned date stack I am writing up in order to have dates that are conducive to not only pulling and hooking up, but getting second dates if the girl does not pull/hook up on the first date. I will be writing it, running it through Troy, and then I'll post it.
 
Voldemort's group would have been cheering you on for walking out on the date. In fact, they would have been like "I would have just walked off immediately after she said no without saying anything". :lol:

Looking back, not the best strategy perhaps.
 
King Approach said:
Voldemort's group would have been cheering you on for walking out on the date. In fact, they would have been like "I would have just walked off immediately after she said no without saying anything". :lol:

Looking back, not the best strategy perhaps.
Click to expand...

Honestly they probably would have said I was being too "beta" by making the date "too long" (it was 20 minutes and not 7)

And they would have said I wasn't "forward enough" since I only went for the pull once. But I guess it was unintentionally "cutthroat" rather than restrained.

I have to emphasize that I didn't even see this as "walking out on the date". I straight up thought I was being normal, not going for the pull multiple times and "setting my boundaries" normally by just ending the date on the pull rejection.

It's funny that even though I thoroughly explained that in both video and text, someone still came to my log and thought I was trying to walk out on the date.

That just shows how unaware I was and how incongruent the action (ending date immediately on pull rejection) was with my intention (keeping the vibe good so I could get a second date with a girl I enjoyed meeting).

Big lesson here is that the universe doesn't care about your "intentions and mindset". What counts are the actual actions and decisions you make, and it's important to be aware that your actions are congruent with your intentions. And that your intuition might be completely wrong with deriving an action it thinks would be congruent with your intentions.
 
https://streamable.com/lgug9p
Had a cute 19yo black chick come straight to crib from an online sesh tonight.

I thought it was going to be like my second lay, where it's just an immediately dtf girl but....




My response was a suggestion from one of my group chats. I wasn't sure if I should still invite her over or not but I was told this could just be a test and to invite her over anyway.

We sat on my balcony and sipped coconut rum because I'm Indian and chatted for 10-15 minutes.

My mindset during the chat was "okay, let's learn as much as possible about this girl and try to get her to open up about herself." I asked about her background and tried to do "deep"-ish conversation. I could have done better tbh instead of jumping topics but I'll remember it for next time. depth first, not breadth first.

Then I did my standard "let's listen to my music in my room" pull. She agreed, so we took another shot of coconut rum and headed to my room.

I played 3 of my songs, then I put on a different album than I normally do for escalation. Also the pillows were oriented correctly this time.

I got the makeout instantly and she was into it. Then I told her to lie down, but...

what are we going to do
we're just going to cuddle

She nestled her head onto my chest and we talked some more, about animals and how she likes animals or something.

Then I went for the makeout again and got it. But after a minute or so she disengaged and cuddled again.

More talking.

Then makeout again. This time I decided to really get into it and she reciprocated. I put my hand over her neck, tongue kissing, sucking/biting her lip etc.

But she disengaged again like "I have to go now I think". So I was like ok and she got up and started playing on her phone. She was taking way too long fiddling with her phone so I told her she should stay for 10 more minutes. She agreed and cuddled into me again.

I put her hand over my chest and rubbed it a little bit, and she started feeling my chest up. Then I slowly unbuttoned my shirt and put her hand on my bare chest and she felt that up too.

I attempted to go down and makeout with her again but she immediately deflected and said "ok it's been 10 minutes, I think I'm going to go now"

Walked her down to the first floor, projected meeting up for a drinks second date across the street. She said she'll be free Wednesday evening but I'll correspond with her over text about it. Then she went home in an Uber.

Thoughts
This is yet another instance of "guys, I think the date vibes were good, I liked the girl", but based on past experiences, she could very well be aggressively unreceptive when I try to probe meeting up for a second date.

Hopefully nothing I did above was "weird" this time and she comes out again.
 
Loving these old-school vlog style videos dude haha

Nice date, super low effort, straight to crib, first of many

BULLLDOGGGGGG
 
I am able to see the differences in your energy vibe and frame in this short video.

You come across well, and far, far better than you used to. There is a groundedness to you that simple wasn't there before.

I experienced something similar myself. In the book Street Hustle, by Tom Terrero, there is a section on FRAME, and the development of frame through the process of approaching and dating women. It is theorised that this process will, in time, correct one's masculine polarity. It is a theory and intangible, and there is no timetine - it could take 6 months, it could take 6 years. Notwithstanding, in guys who are DEAD SERIOUS, such as yourself, I have consistently noticed these imperceptible changes in overall demeanour and have become a believer in game and the concepts therein.

Bulldog, you are the man. You are doing well. Persist. In a year or two from now, we will be jacked as fuck, and living lives of true abundance.

Will come over to Nashvile and see you soon enough. 500 approaches in 3 weeks bro we got this ;-)

MAC
 
Just wanted to say you look and sound great. You're definitely not an alien (or if you are you're a sexy one like Scarlett Johansson in Under the Skin).

All you're missing is some experience having fun and being naturally sexual with women, and you're getting more of that with every date.

With a little patience and faith and an openness to learn from each experience you can definitely go from "I have no idea what I'm doing and it seems like I'll never understand women or be a man they want" to "holy shit, several really sexy women love me and feel comfortable with me and love having sex with me".


One of my favorite phrases is "no one ever become a master without first becoming a fool", because it really emphasizes there is no path to mastery that doesn't start with making A TON of embarrassing and childlike mistakes. AND THAT'S OK!

It seems like yesterday (and was actually only a year or two ago) that I was doing stuff on dates that still makes me absolutely cringe when I think about it. But am I glad I did it? OF COURSE! Those cringeworthy experiences were absolutely essential to my growth and to getting me to where I am today.

Now that's not to say I'm a master by any means, but messing up over and over in such foolish ways did teach me it's by far the best way to get better.


You are obviously getting better btw, because attractive women have an almost infinite number of options in terms of who they spend their time with, so for you to have multiple attractive women agreeing to go on dates with you and even come back to your place, and all in just the last few days, is a massive sign of your progress (and of course, so is your cheerleader!).


I know you don't like cheerleading (at least when they aren't some hottie pretending to be your childhood friend), and prefer practical suggestions, so I'll leave you with this: maybe to take some of the pressure off (and increase the chances that the women you are with feel comfortable enough and turned on enough to get naked with you), don't make sex the goal of every date.

Instead, think of the dates as forePLAY (because to women they literally are) and make the goal to simply have fun (after all, that's what you are supposed to do when you play). Of course that fun can take many forms, from eating something delicious together, to getting some exercise walking around in nature, to playing skee-ball, to listening to music, to drinking some tasty cocktails, to talking about something you are both passionate or curious about, to dancing together, to going canoeing or to the zoo, etc... you get the point, the list of fun things you can do with a girl you like is infinite (I once took a girl to church with my family for a first date, but told her to think of it as foreplay, and it went great!).

Even better if you pick something that YOU think is fun, because then you will actually be enjoying yourself, which is obviously what you should be doing on a date! Once you're enjoying yourself, if you throw in some flirtatious looks, some playful touching and any other natural attractiveness you feel, the sex will often be a natural conclusion to the fun flirty time you've had together.

* I know some guys might view this as a waste of time and focus on how you probably could have gotten her home and naked much quicker by being aggressive and screening her and pushing through her resistance or whatever, but to me it feels like you really need to rack up some experience having fun with women you like, one because it is the absolute best way to learn to be more natural and playful, and two, and probably most importantly, because SEX IS SO MUCH BETTER WITH SOMEONE YOU ARE HAVING FUN WITH*


I know part of you already knows the power of having fun, because there is no better example of how having fun on a date can lead to fantastic sex than your "childhood friend" cheerleader story!

https://killyourinnerloser.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37953#p37953
 
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